Yes, props to Paul All3n for sure. Without his response, so much of this would have remained covered up forever. As well as many of you, on Waydale.
I had pieced together that P@ul got a 7 figure settlement with a confidentiality clause from his lawsuit, meaning he'd have to give it back if he kept up with Waydale or similar activity. If any are wondering that is why he doesn't post on the internet anymore.
skyrider, dwbh, thanks for pitching on on some of these history stories I'm trying to tell. This is not normally how I would approach writing or talking about it, but to me in spite of loose organization what i like about it is it offers so many others the opportunity to "open source" the story. One huge collaboration effort, like Wikipedia. to me it makes it more complete of a story and with your details more accurate.
Initially people criticized wikipedia as a source being biased and inaccurate - I remember one point in college not being allowed to use it as a source on papers. Over time the peer reviews and corrections turned that around in a lot of instances. It still is problematic in the area of focused bias. A great example of that is looking up The Way International on wikipedia and comparing what you see there to details you might find at GSC. The differences you see you can attribute to Rosie's Great Whitewashing Campaign.
Does that mean these stories we are telling here are going to be biased and inaccurate? Well, I've come to the point of view that any retelling of history introduces bias, as it is written from a person's viewpoint. Accuracy is going to be increased by collaboration.
Well......imo, the stranglehold ceased when twi-gatekeepers could NO LONGER control the message or contain the secrets. The leaders (cough, cough) who exited en masse after "the poop paper propaganda" did very little to release the wierwille-the-man-of-God vise grip. The geer camp kept beating the same drum. The lynn camp did better.....but just seemed to sidestep the wierwille doctrine/legacy in many ways. What about the finn3gan camp? The summ3rville camp? Others? The shr0yer camp seemed to embrace the wierwille doctrine more closely.....of which, the two younger wierwille kids hitched a ride to keep the embers glowing?
The stranglehold was BROKEN when Waydale in April 1999 took the fight directly at Martindale and twi. The full onslaught of punches caught martindale/twi off guard and in a defensive posture. Pa-ul All3n hit them with an uppercut that left them staggering to find the ropes. From a position of husband-rage and legal strength, this man went on a relentless, 18-hours a day, flurry of punches that staggered the corporate "giant." Month after month, the scandalous secrets poured forth on Waydale. Twi mandated that their followers stay off the internet and, it didn't take long before martindale had to publically admit to this "consensual affair." Twi knew that Waydale was, indeed, a formidable foe.
......<snip>
But make NO mistake.......it was NOT the staunch defectors from the 1986 exodus who broke the twi-stranglehold. Many of those men went forward to fill their pews and pockets with the wierwille-deception, the fake-truth doctrine, that they embraced.....still. They simply wanted the deception, and funneling of money, to continue as long as possible. They were, and are, complicit in leading these followers astray. Woe unto them.
Waydale........thank you!
GSC.........174 pages and counting, on About the Way forum.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Make no mistake...........GSC is only a small part of my life. Thru the years, I've gone long stretches of time without walking thru the doors here.......rebuilding my life, my family, business, and helping two sons thru college and one thru med school. These past 18 years have been a busy stretch of time......and along the way, in real life, all those situations and people in my life have heaped enough bushels of wheat to fill a truckload of blessings.
I have continued my patronage at GSC because I believe in its mission. It matters not a whit to me what someone else might THINK of my involvement on this site. Although its but a very small part of my day.......my purpose is to help extricate as many as possible from the way international cult.
People around the world gather into organizations or causes that they believe worthy to help mankind. Whether its church, or community, or one's neighborhood association......political, environmental, or human right's causes.....or MADD....people join in because it's personal OR they believe its cause will personally benefit the generations to follow. And, clearly......one doesn't necessarily go thru life with just ONE banner to carry. Many of us have learned how to multi-task. lol
We gather around this GSC platform,..... because numbers attract attention to spotlight and generate impact. Here......we expose the cult that, temporarily, derailed our lives.
Personally, having been a clergyman in all this.......I feel an extra obligation to help mitigate the damage of the cult. That 1985 TWI Clergy Roster lists the names of nearly 350 clergy men and women........of which, less than a dozen have ever come forward to expose AND help extricate others. Three or four of them......were of little help in rolling up their sleeves. Martindale increased the clergy numbers substantially ...... from 1993-1996 another 390 clergymen were "salted" to the cult. So........to ALL these clergy that exited, where are you? And, to the dozens upon dozens who put out their shingle of "The First Church of the Wierwillites"..............woe unto you.
Corps and hq-staffers have, also, exited the cult doors these past 40 years. Many of them carried the banner of the cult into their home fellowships, weekly bible studies, and Facebook postings even to this day. Even John Lynn came to GSC years ago and claimed that "wierwille would be proud of him" for still holding this "truth" high. The polar extremes of exiting this cult are still reverberating into the next generation. And so it is.......
But GSC is here......to tell the other side of this cult.
Personally, having been a clergyman in all this.......I feel an extra obligation to help mitigate the damage of the cult.
The polar extremes of exiting this cult are still reverberating into the next generation. And so it is.......
But GSC is here......to tell the other side of this cult.
.
Thank you for your service here at GSC, Skyrider. I, too, feel an obligation to help mitigate damage. Some of you know, I was a clergyman's wife and biblical researcher at HQ.
Keep offering "the other side of the story" and you never know who it may help around the world. As someone pointed out, there will be personal bias in our stories (which is unavoidable since we are human beings) but that is the value here, as together, they verify so much about TWI that has been hidden. I'm reminded of that old story about the many people with one hand on an elephant. Each person describes the elephant in terms of the part they touch. Added together, the descriptions offer the big picture.
That 1985 TWI Clergy Roster lists the names of nearly 350 clergy men and women........of which, less than a dozen have ever come forward to expose AND help extricate others. Three or four of them......were of little help in rolling up their sleeves. Martindale increased the clergy numbers substantially ...... from 1993-1996 another 390 clergymen were "salted" to the cult.
May 1998: Active Clergy List
Total Active Clergy -- 64
Total Standing Inactive Clergy -- 19
The last clergy listing I ever saw.
In November 1999.....Martindale Ordained 25 More --- Someone relayed these numbers to me and I filed it away.
Five month later, in April 2000........Martindale publically confessed to "his affair with Ms Allen."
In August 2000........Martindale was ousted by twi-lawyers and slithered into Toledo under the cover of darkness.
The series of purges had done their damage.......the cult was relentlessly brutal during 1992-1998.
The field leadership and active clergy were jumping ship. The time had ARRIVED.
Anyone who stayed into the Rivenbark era.............I can't even imagine why.
And, now that JYDL will be leading this cult? The 4th Dimension of Insanity.
When did twi's stranglehold on wierwille's mog-status, impact and legacy lose its grip?
Did the stranglehold cease when many clergy/corps dissented and exited in late '70s or early '80s?
Did the stranglehold cease when wierwille died in May 1985?
Did the stranglehold cease when geer read "The Patriarch" paper at corps week, 1986?
Did the stranglehold cease when lynn and others wrote that 37-page proclamation?
Did the stranglehold cease with an exodus of a reported 80% of corps leadership?
Did the stranglehold cease when dozens of splinter groups started preaching "the truth?"
When did the stranglehold cease?
Well......imo, the stranglehold ceased when twi-gatekeepers could NO LONGER control the message or contain the secrets. The leaders (cough, cough) who exited en masse after "the poop paper propaganda" did very little to release the wierwille-the-man-of-God vise grip. The geer camp kept beating the same drum. The lynn camp did better.....but just seemed to sidestep the wierwille doctrine/legacy in many ways. What about the finn3gan camp? The summ3rville camp? Others? The shr0yer camp seemed to embrace the wierwille doctrine more closely.....of which, the two younger wierwille kids hitched a ride to keep the embers glowing?
The stranglehold was BROKEN when Waydale in April 1999 took the fight directly at Martindale and twi. The full onslaught of punches caught martindale/twi off guard and in a defensive posture. Pa-ul All3n hit them with an uppercut that left them staggering to find the ropes. From a position of husband-rage and legal strength, this man went on a relentless, 18-hours a day, flurry of punches that staggered the corporate "giant." Month after month, the scandalous secrets poured forth on Waydale. Twi mandated that their followers stay off the internet and, it didn't take long before martindale had to publically admit to this "consensual affair." Twi knew that Waydale was, indeed, a formidable foe.
A second lawsuit erupted......and martindale's fate was sealed. Cover-ups. Silence. Lawyers. Depositions.
The All3n lawsuit was settled out of court and sealed from prying eyes. Martindale was ousted. Within a year, 7 region coordinators had sent in their resignation letters and headed for the doors to separate themselves from all things twi. Amazingly, the loyalist trunk coordinator, panasmello around like 2004 and started on offshoot and STILL clings to wierwille doctrine (from what I've heard). Greasespot Café didn't miss a beat and picked up when the Waydale websie, under settlement agreement, was to close down.
But make NO mistake.......it was NOT the staunch defectors from the 1986 exodus who broke the twi-stranglehold. Many of those men went forward to fill their pews and pockets with the wierwille-deception, the fake-truth doctrine, that they embraced.....still. They simply wanted the deception, and funneling of money, to continue as long as possible. They were, and are, complicit in leading these followers astray. Woe unto them.
Waydale........thank you!
GSC.........174 pages and counting, on About the Way forum.
A big thank you from me and I'm just a rookie on here
I don't think that most people really understand the hold that TWI has on its members. I have been reading everything I can get my hands on for the last few months regarding TWI. I have read the books by Charlene Edge, Karl Kahrl, Kristen Skedgell and Freedom of Mind by Steven Hassan. I had never heard of TWI until my son's wife (less than a year) was basically swept out the state with their brand new son. The parents have been members since the late 70's and plan to move back to Ohio to build a house on their friend's farm. The friend is a lifetime member of TWI. Little did any of my son's family know but this friend who did a wedding ceremony (they were justice of the peace married first) was a TWI minster. He did the covenant of salt ( we were clueless) and blessed their marriage. Long story short my daughter in law left and hasn't looked back. She was a very much loved part of our family for 3 years. As soon as the baby was born she MOVED into the kids 500 square foot apartment and started working on her. Next thing you know, she is not herself at all! She now is filing for divorce and claims we are all alcoholics. Please, any advise? I wish we could get her to snap out of it, but her parents have the strongest hold ever. Seriously, who can you trust if not your parents. I don't think a life rebuilding the fellowship of TWI is any place for my 6 month old grandson.
I don't think that most people really understand the hold that TWI has on its members. I have been reading everything I can get my hands on for the last few months regarding TWI. I have read the books by Charlene Edge, Karl Kahrl, Kristen Skedgell and Freedom of Mind by Steven Hassan. I had never heard of TWI until my son's wife (less than a year) was basically swept out the state with their brand new son. The parents have been members since the late 70's and plan to move back to Ohio to build a house on their friend's farm. The friend is a lifetime member of TWI. Little did any of my son's family know but this friend who did a wedding ceremony (they were justice of the peace married first) was a TWI minster. He did the covenant of salt ( we were clueless) and blessed their marriage. Long story short my daughter in law left and hasn't looked back. She was a very much loved part of our family for 3 years. As soon as the baby was born she MOVED into the kids 500 square foot apartment and started working on her. Next thing you know, she is not herself at all! She now is filing for divorce and claims we are all alcoholics. Please, any advise? I wish we could get her to snap out of it, but her parents have the strongest hold ever. Seriously, who can you trust if not your parents. I don't think a life rebuilding the fellowship of TWI is any place for my 6 month old grandson.
Wow... that is tragic. Before anyone else starts analyzing the situation, I recommend you help your son get a VERY good lawyer. Solve the legal problems with your d-i-l moving grandson out of state without your son's approval before you try to figure out how to change her mind about TWI.
Btw, I'm a grandparent also, so please rest assured that I empathize with you completely.
Wow... that is tragic. Before anyone else starts analyzing the situation, I recommend you help your son get a VERY good lawyer... in the state where your son lives... Solve the legal problems with your d-i-l moving grandson out of state without your son's approval before you try to figure out how to change her mind about TWI.
Btw, I'm a grandparent also, so please rest assured that I empathize with you completely.
Thank you for replying. It's just so undescribable the change in her in such a short time. Breaks my heart. We had to get an attorney in both states, which has taken the savings my son had for a down payment on a house for his family. We have had a hearing on the east coast and will hopefully have a hearing here within a month. I agree about having to wait to get her turned around. She has been living in her parents house for the majority of the babies short 6 months of life. I flew out to see my son and wife in Feb. when her parents found out I came to town they stormed the kids' apartment like a swat team and said that the daughter and baby were going to their house and if my son or I wanted to see them it could only be in their house. We have only seen the baby for 2 hours at the courthouse since Feb. They told the court that we would abscond with the baby. Good grief, I am a mom, i wouldn't take a nursing baby from its mom, I work with kids everyday for a living, and I always put kids first. They are so extreme. With everything they do, the mother was so ....ed that the baby was circumsized because my son insisted. She just took over, telling her daughter how weak she was and that she needed to just let her do everything. The daughter was in a state to be worked over by mom. I know the parents are still quoting VP and listening to the Sunday recordings, as well as Wednesday skype meetings with fellow members. I feel like they are still very much into the Corp life and want to build more VP fellowship. I appreciate any insight. The stories told in the novels are very moving and it is apparent that people who got in TWI did so with the best intentions.
Second, I think this important topic should have its own separate thread, not be part of the one started some months ago on a different topic. Maybe Modcat5 or somebody could do that? (even though Rocky has posted on this thread!)
Third, At A Loss, much calm is required from your son's side. Be very factual, keep records of events and conversations. The other side are hyper-vigilant exploiters and will emphasis any perceived weakness from your son. Bear in mind the other grandparents genuinely feel that they are doing their best done to raise the child in a good, Godly environment. Histrionics by your son's side will be seen as the devil at work - devil spirit possession - and thus render your son and his family a dangerous environment in which to raise the grandson.
Others here have fought similar battles; they may be able to offer some advice or tips.
People use cults as much as cults use them. It is very likely someone is using TWI to justify their current course of actions. In which case, learning more about TWI will change very little.
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chockfull
Yes, props to Paul All3n for sure. Without his response, so much of this would have remained covered up forever. As well as many of you, on Waydale.
I had pieced together that P@ul got a 7 figure settlement with a confidentiality clause from his lawsuit, meaning he'd have to give it back if he kept up with Waydale or similar activity. If any are wondering that is why he doesn't post on the internet anymore.
skyrider, dwbh, thanks for pitching on on some of these history stories I'm trying to tell. This is not normally how I would approach writing or talking about it, but to me in spite of loose organization what i like about it is it offers so many others the opportunity to "open source" the story. One huge collaboration effort, like Wikipedia. to me it makes it more complete of a story and with your details more accurate.
Initially people criticized wikipedia as a source being biased and inaccurate - I remember one point in college not being allowed to use it as a source on papers. Over time the peer reviews and corrections turned that around in a lot of instances. It still is problematic in the area of focused bias. A great example of that is looking up The Way International on wikipedia and comparing what you see there to details you might find at GSC. The differences you see you can attribute to Rosie's Great Whitewashing Campaign.
Does that mean these stories we are telling here are going to be biased and inaccurate? Well, I've come to the point of view that any retelling of history introduces bias, as it is written from a person's viewpoint. Accuracy is going to be increased by collaboration.
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T-Bone
This thread made me think of Tank Man – the unknown rebel who stood in front of the column of Chinese tanks in Tiananmen Square in 1989
Tank Man
I can only imagine it must have been just as scary for Paul A to take on LCM / TWI
a big thanks to him, Waydale and Grease Spot for sure !!!!
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skyrider
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Make no mistake...........GSC is only a small part of my life. Thru the years, I've gone long stretches of time without walking thru the doors here.......rebuilding my life, my family, business, and helping two sons thru college and one thru med school. These past 18 years have been a busy stretch of time......and along the way, in real life, all those situations and people in my life have heaped enough bushels of wheat to fill a truckload of blessings.
I have continued my patronage at GSC because I believe in its mission. It matters not a whit to me what someone else might THINK of my involvement on this site. Although its but a very small part of my day.......my purpose is to help extricate as many as possible from the way international cult.
People around the world gather into organizations or causes that they believe worthy to help mankind. Whether its church, or community, or one's neighborhood association......political, environmental, or human right's causes.....or MADD....people join in because it's personal OR they believe its cause will personally benefit the generations to follow. And, clearly......one doesn't necessarily go thru life with just ONE banner to carry. Many of us have learned how to multi-task. lol
We gather around this GSC platform,..... because numbers attract attention to spotlight and generate impact. Here......we expose the cult that, temporarily, derailed our lives.
Personally, having been a clergyman in all this.......I feel an extra obligation to help mitigate the damage of the cult. That 1985 TWI Clergy Roster lists the names of nearly 350 clergy men and women........of which, less than a dozen have ever come forward to expose AND help extricate others. Three or four of them......were of little help in rolling up their sleeves. Martindale increased the clergy numbers substantially ...... from 1993-1996 another 390 clergymen were "salted" to the cult. So........to ALL these clergy that exited, where are you? And, to the dozens upon dozens who put out their shingle of "The First Church of the Wierwillites"..............woe unto you.
Corps and hq-staffers have, also, exited the cult doors these past 40 years. Many of them carried the banner of the cult into their home fellowships, weekly bible studies, and Facebook postings even to this day. Even John Lynn came to GSC years ago and claimed that "wierwille would be proud of him" for still holding this "truth" high. The polar extremes of exiting this cult are still reverberating into the next generation. And so it is.......
But GSC is here......to tell the other side of this cult.
.
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penworks
Thank you for your service here at GSC, Skyrider. I, too, feel an obligation to help mitigate damage. Some of you know, I was a clergyman's wife and biblical researcher at HQ.
Keep offering "the other side of the story" and you never know who it may help around the world. As someone pointed out, there will be personal bias in our stories (which is unavoidable since we are human beings) but that is the value here, as together, they verify so much about TWI that has been hidden. I'm reminded of that old story about the many people with one hand on an elephant. Each person describes the elephant in terms of the part they touch. Added together, the descriptions offer the big picture.
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skyrider
May 1998: Active Clergy List
In November 1999.....Martindale Ordained 25 More --- Someone relayed these numbers to me and I filed it away.
The series of purges had done their damage.......the cult was relentlessly brutal during 1992-1998.
The field leadership and active clergy were jumping ship. The time had ARRIVED.
Anyone who stayed into the Rivenbark era.............I can't even imagine why.
And, now that JYDL will be leading this cult? The 4th Dimension of Insanity.
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higherground30
A big thank you from me and I'm just a rookie on here
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At A Loss
I don't think that most people really understand the hold that TWI has on its members. I have been reading everything I can get my hands on for the last few months regarding TWI. I have read the books by Charlene Edge, Karl Kahrl, Kristen Skedgell and Freedom of Mind by Steven Hassan. I had never heard of TWI until my son's wife (less than a year) was basically swept out the state with their brand new son. The parents have been members since the late 70's and plan to move back to Ohio to build a house on their friend's farm. The friend is a lifetime member of TWI. Little did any of my son's family know but this friend who did a wedding ceremony (they were justice of the peace married first) was a TWI minster. He did the covenant of salt ( we were clueless) and blessed their marriage. Long story short my daughter in law left and hasn't looked back. She was a very much loved part of our family for 3 years. As soon as the baby was born she MOVED into the kids 500 square foot apartment and started working on her. Next thing you know, she is not herself at all! She now is filing for divorce and claims we are all alcoholics. Please, any advise? I wish we could get her to snap out of it, but her parents have the strongest hold ever. Seriously, who can you trust if not your parents. I don't think a life rebuilding the fellowship of TWI is any place for my 6 month old grandson.
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Rocky
Wow... that is tragic. Before anyone else starts analyzing the situation, I recommend you help your son get a VERY good lawyer. Solve the legal problems with your d-i-l moving grandson out of state without your son's approval before you try to figure out how to change her mind about TWI.
Edited by RockyBtw, I'm a grandparent also, so please rest assured that I empathize with you completely.
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Rocky
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At A Loss
Thank you for replying. It's just so undescribable the change in her in such a short time. Breaks my heart. We had to get an attorney in both states, which has taken the savings my son had for a down payment on a house for his family. We have had a hearing on the east coast and will hopefully have a hearing here within a month. I agree about having to wait to get her turned around. She has been living in her parents house for the majority of the babies short 6 months of life. I flew out to see my son and wife in Feb. when her parents found out I came to town they stormed the kids' apartment like a swat team and said that the daughter and baby were going to their house and if my son or I wanted to see them it could only be in their house. We have only seen the baby for 2 hours at the courthouse since Feb. They told the court that we would abscond with the baby. Good grief, I am a mom, i wouldn't take a nursing baby from its mom, I work with kids everyday for a living, and I always put kids first. They are so extreme. With everything they do, the mother was so ....ed that the baby was circumsized because my son insisted. She just took over, telling her daughter how weak she was and that she needed to just let her do everything. The daughter was in a state to be worked over by mom. I know the parents are still quoting VP and listening to the Sunday recordings, as well as Wednesday skype meetings with fellow members. I feel like they are still very much into the Corp life and want to build more VP fellowship. I appreciate any insight. The stories told in the novels are very moving and it is apparent that people who got in TWI did so with the best intentions.
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Twinky
First, WELCOME to At A Loss. We feel your pain.
Second, I think this important topic should have its own separate thread, not be part of the one started some months ago on a different topic. Maybe Modcat5 or somebody could do that? (even though Rocky has posted on this thread!)
Third, At A Loss, much calm is required from your son's side. Be very factual, keep records of events and conversations. The other side are hyper-vigilant exploiters and will emphasis any perceived weakness from your son. Bear in mind the other grandparents genuinely feel that they are doing their best done to raise the child in a good, Godly environment. Histrionics by your son's side will be seen as the devil at work - devil spirit possession - and thus render your son and his family a dangerous environment in which to raise the grandson.
Others here have fought similar battles; they may be able to offer some advice or tips.
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Twinky
Oh, and the books are NOT novels. They're real life records. Unfortunately.
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Bolshevik
People use cults as much as cults use them. It is very likely someone is using TWI to justify their current course of actions. In which case, learning more about TWI will change very little.
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