I can't speak to how frequently he was publicly drunk, but I am aware that whenever he visited believers on the field, they gave him bottles of Drambuie and served it to him during times he was sitting with followers seated on floors (events called "night owls") at his feet listening to his BS.
He did lose an eye, years after filming PFLAP. Likely there were multiple factors contributing to the eye problems.
I seiously doubt that he ever thought of himself as having a problem. He also chain smoked Kool "shorties" like it was going out of style. His motto in life was "Do what you like as long as you like what you do." He died of metastatic cancer. (Liver and eye) The real kicker here, though, is that he taught alcoholism and cancer are caused by devil spirits. So, either he was wrong about the devil spirit thing or we were following a guy who was possessed. Quite a dilemma, no? BTW, His son, Don, and his brother, Harry, also died from cancer.
Did he ever seek outside help for his alcoholism? Or was this something that TWI glossed over?
Nobody in TWI ever got away with trying to hold VeePee accountable for anything. And like Waysider said, it's doubtful he ever thought he had a problem with alcohol.
I don't know how far back vic's daily drinking began. I DO know that, he drank daily during the time I knew him, 1970-1985. I am not saying he was drunk daily, but he did drink daily. Often, he would be shitfaced at nite owls, or corpse dances or parties. Before the motor coaches, vic liked his Drambuie and coffee in the morning. Usually had some more of this concoction at lunch. Then, as aforementioned, depending on what was scheduled for the evenings, he would enjoy old fashioned "high balls".....Seven and Seven was his favorite (Seagrams 7 mixed in 7-UP). Then, in the "afterglows"/nite owls, the coffee cups with straight Drambuie.
This may sound like a lot, but when habitualuzed over a decade and a half (at least), the amount of alcohol necessary to really "tie one on" increases as biophysiological tolerance and demand increase.
After the 40th anniversary inauguration and installation of da forehead as prez #2, vic had to acquiesce to his first surgery, which was the removal of his left eye secondary to ocular melanoma. Throughout the 40th anniversary year, with all the Regional Anniversary Weekends (8 of them), Living Victoriously, corpse week/ROA, vic's eye generated various increasing levels of pain. Prior to the surgery, vic self-medicated with Tylenol #3 with codeine and the continued daily alcohol use. Each Tylenol #3 tablet contains 30mg of codeine with 325mg of acetaminophen. On bad days, vic was taking 2 T3s every 4 hours with the alcohol. As the year progressed, vic graduated to Tylenol #4.....45mg codeine in each tab.
After the surgery,,again with now a fairly substantial addiction to narcotic analgesics plus the alcohol abuse, pain management became an increasingly difficult "problem" for vic. As a result, the codeine was augmented and eventually replaced with MS Contin, oral morphine (MS04) at various doses, starting at 10mg, and increasing to 60mg "as needed" in the months immediately prior to his death in May,1985. Again, in addition to the daily alcohol use.
So, it is fair and accurate to say that ole rattler was pretty strung out for months before he finally died. Official cause of death? "Ocular melanoma with metastatic liver and lung disease." That should fill in some detail for you Bolshevik. Peace.
Liver damage from acetaminophen, which can be severe, can result either from an overdose or from regular doses that are taken while drinking alcohol. -- from medicinenet.com
It may be reasonable to infer that VeePee (unknowingly) killed himself.
Thanks for those links, Rocky. It's especially important for us older folks, who have more occasion to have to deal with pain than some of our younger counterpart, to understand the dangers of mixing alcohol with acetaminophen.
Thanks for those links, Rocky. It's especially important for us older folks, who have more occasion to have to deal with pain than some of our younger counterpart, to understand the dangers of mixing alcohol with acetaminophen.
Once a lab instructor held a human liver out in front of me and the class and said, "This is what happens when you mix alcohol and Tylenol" and then slammed the liver down on the table.
I don't know how far back vic's daily drinking began. I DO know that, he drank daily during the time I knew him, 1970-1985. I am not saying he was drunk daily, but he did drink daily. Often, he would be dangfaced at nite owls, or corpse dances or parties. Before the motor coaches, vic liked his Drambuie and coffee in the morning. Usually had some more of this concoction at lunch. Then, as aforementioned, depending on what was scheduled for the evenings, he would enjoy old fashioned "high balls".....Seven and Seven was his favorite (Seagrams 7 mixed in 7-UP). Then, in the "afterglows"/nite owls, the coffee cups with straight Drambuie.
This may sound like a lot, but when habitualuzed over a decade and a half (at least), the amount of alcohol necessary to really "tie one on" increases as biophysiological tolerance and demand increase.
After the 40th anniversary inauguration and installation of da forehead as prez #2, vic had to acquiesce to his first surgery, which was the removal of his left eye secondary to ocular melanoma. Throughout the 40th anniversary year, with all the Regional Anniversary Weekends (8 of them), Living Victoriously, corpse week/ROA, vic's eye generated various increasing levels of pain. Prior to the surgery, vic self-medicated with Tylenol #3 with codeine and the continued daily alcohol use. Each Tylenol #3 tablet contains 30mg of codeine with 325mg of acetaminophen. On bad days, vic was taking 2 T3s every 4 hours with the alcohol. As the year progressed, vic graduated to Tylenol #4.....45mg codeine in each tab.
After the surgery,,again with now a fairly substantial addiction to narcotic analgesics plus the alcohol abuse, pain management became an increasingly difficult "problem" for vic. As a result, the codeine was augmented and eventually replaced with MS Contin, oral morphine (MS04) at various doses, starting at 10mg, and increasing to 60mg "as needed" in the months immediately prior to his death in May,1985. Again, in addition to the daily alcohol use.
So, it is fair and accurate to say that ole rattler was pretty strung out for months before he finally died. Official cause of death? "Ocular melanoma with metastatic liver and lung disease." That should fill in some detail for you Bolshevik. Peace.
Thanks DWBH,
It sounds like he drank enough to be dependent. His thinking process and mental wiring were likely permanently altered. (I'm speculating this based on what I've read)
It is curious to me, that, anger-based-yelling became commonplace in TWI, by non-alcoholics. I would think this is because the venerated VPW was an alcohol-driven-yeller. (Here on GSC, LCM is the prime example, but, nearly everyone did it. From my own experience, that was standard, expected, admired, behavior in TWI.)
Also, I would wonder how much of the writing of PFAL might be substance-abuse influenced.
I don't know how far back vic's daily drinking began. I DO know that, he drank daily during the time I knew him, 1970-1985. I am not saying he was drunk daily, but he did drink daily. Often, he would be dangfaced at nite owls, or corpse dances or parties. Before the motor coaches, vic liked his Drambuie and coffee in the morning. Usually had some more of this concoction at lunch. Then, as aforementioned, depending on what was scheduled for the evenings, he would enjoy old fashioned "high balls".....Seven and Seven was his favorite (Seagrams 7 mixed in 7-UP). Then, in the "afterglows"/nite owls, the coffee cups with straight Drambuie.
This may sound like a lot, but when habitualuzed over a decade and a half (at least), the amount of alcohol necessary to really "tie one on" increases as biophysiological tolerance and demand increase.
After the 40th anniversary inauguration and installation of da forehead as prez #2, vic had to acquiesce to his first surgery, which was the removal of his left eye secondary to ocular melanoma. Throughout the 40th anniversary year, with all the Regional Anniversary Weekends (8 of them), Living Victoriously, corpse week/ROA, vic's eye generated various increasing levels of pain. Prior to the surgery, vic self-medicated with Tylenol #3 with codeine and the continued daily alcohol use. Each Tylenol #3 tablet contains 30mg of codeine with 325mg of acetaminophen. On bad days, vic was taking 2 T3s every 4 hours with the alcohol. As the year progressed, vic graduated to Tylenol #4.....45mg codeine in each tab.
After the surgery,,again with now a fairly substantial addiction to narcotic analgesics plus the alcohol abuse, pain management became an increasingly difficult "problem" for vic. As a result, the codeine was augmented and eventually replaced with MS Contin, oral morphine (MS04) at various doses, starting at 10mg, and increasing to 60mg "as needed" in the months immediately prior to his death in May,1985. Again, in addition to the daily alcohol use.
So, it is fair and accurate to say that ole rattler was pretty strung out for months before he finally died. Official cause of death? "Ocular melanoma with metastatic liver and lung disease." That should fill in some detail for you Bolshevik. Peace.
There's not much I can add to this, but I can add a little. When vpw was going to visit an area for, say, a weekend, a local was tasked with finding, buying and bringing SEVERAL bottles of Drambuie to present to vpw for use during his stay there. Someone reported confusion on behalf of the person-who had never heard of the stuff before but now had to buy a stack of bottles so a minister had the stack for personal use while he visited them for the next 2 days, vpw also had this thing of breath mints to counteract the chronic smell of booze and smoking on his breath. He used to have a bowl of breath mints at the podium. He would put one or more in his mouth, break them to get to the inner, more effective part, and use them that way. When he was unclear, staff thought he wanted a bowl of 1/2 breath mints, all pre-broken into 2 parts.
That is why keeping a 3x5 card about each individual you know handy combined with excellent dental hygiene is a sign of godliness.
You don't want bad breathe to distract someone from hearing exactly how they are at fault for your own personal short-comings. The odor would not be a blessing.
That is why keeping a 3x5 card about each individual you know handy combined with excellent dental hygiene is a sign of godliness.
You don't want bad breathe to distract someone from hearing exactly how they are at fault for your own personal short-comings. The odor would not be a blessing.
Rofl!!
From stringing chairs to dishes of mints to 3x5 cards. it's crazy to me to learn where these goofy practices came from and how I was taught insignificant minutia was the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household...blah blah....oh and table etiquette.
When I became involved in 1972, the mints and Drambuie were already an established protocol. That doesn't really answer how much but it does give some perspective on how long the practice went on.
When I became involved in 1972, the mints and Drambuie were already an established protocol. That doesn't really answer how much but it does give some perspective on how long the practice went on.
Also, I would wonder how much of the writing of PFAL might be substance-abuse influenced.
I would postulate that the inebriated brain led to the laziness involved with doing his own research, and looking for a more easy way out, like plagiarism.
When I became involved in 1972, the mints and Drambuie were already an established protocol. That doesn't really answer how much but it does give some perspective on how long the practice went on.
The 1/2 mint syndrome survived past VP and on through the reign of terror of the non-drinking Baptist sexual predator. Uncanny.
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Rocky
I can't speak to how frequently he was publicly drunk, but I am aware that whenever he visited believers on the field, they gave him bottles of Drambuie and served it to him during times he was sitting with followers seated on floors (events called "night owls") at his feet listening to his BS.
He did lose an eye, years after filming PFLAP. Likely there were multiple factors contributing to the eye problems.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Did anyone ever try to get him help for his alcoholism? Or was this something that TWI tried to gloss over?
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Grace Valerie Claire
Did he ever seek outside help for his alcoholism? Or was this something that TWI glossed over?
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waysider
I seiously doubt that he ever thought of himself as having a problem. He also chain smoked Kool "shorties" like it was going out of style. His motto in life was "Do what you like as long as you like what you do." He died of metastatic cancer. (Liver and eye) The real kicker here, though, is that he taught alcoholism and cancer are caused by devil spirits. So, either he was wrong about the devil spirit thing or we were following a guy who was possessed. Quite a dilemma, no? BTW, His son, Don, and his brother, Harry, also died from cancer.
edit: commas and stuff.
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Rocky
Nobody in TWI ever got away with trying to hold VeePee accountable for anything. And like Waysider said, it's doubtful he ever thought he had a problem with alcohol.
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DontWorryBeHappy
I don't know how far back vic's daily drinking began. I DO know that, he drank daily during the time I knew him, 1970-1985. I am not saying he was drunk daily, but he did drink daily. Often, he would be shitfaced at nite owls, or corpse dances or parties. Before the motor coaches, vic liked his Drambuie and coffee in the morning. Usually had some more of this concoction at lunch. Then, as aforementioned, depending on what was scheduled for the evenings, he would enjoy old fashioned "high balls".....Seven and Seven was his favorite (Seagrams 7 mixed in 7-UP). Then, in the "afterglows"/nite owls, the coffee cups with straight Drambuie.
This may sound like a lot, but when habitualuzed over a decade and a half (at least), the amount of alcohol necessary to really "tie one on" increases as biophysiological tolerance and demand increase.
After the 40th anniversary inauguration and installation of da forehead as prez #2, vic had to acquiesce to his first surgery, which was the removal of his left eye secondary to ocular melanoma. Throughout the 40th anniversary year, with all the Regional Anniversary Weekends (8 of them), Living Victoriously, corpse week/ROA, vic's eye generated various increasing levels of pain. Prior to the surgery, vic self-medicated with Tylenol #3 with codeine and the continued daily alcohol use. Each Tylenol #3 tablet contains 30mg of codeine with 325mg of acetaminophen. On bad days, vic was taking 2 T3s every 4 hours with the alcohol. As the year progressed, vic graduated to Tylenol #4.....45mg codeine in each tab.
After the surgery,,again with now a fairly substantial addiction to narcotic analgesics plus the alcohol abuse, pain management became an increasingly difficult "problem" for vic. As a result, the codeine was augmented and eventually replaced with MS Contin, oral morphine (MS04) at various doses, starting at 10mg, and increasing to 60mg "as needed" in the months immediately prior to his death in May,1985. Again, in addition to the daily alcohol use.
So, it is fair and accurate to say that ole rattler was pretty strung out for months before he finally died. Official cause of death? "Ocular melanoma with metastatic liver and lung disease." That should fill in some detail for you Bolshevik. Peace.
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Rocky
Liver damage from acetaminophen, which can be severe, can result either from an overdose or from regular doses that are taken while drinking alcohol. -- from medicinenet.com
It may be reasonable to infer that VeePee (unknowingly) killed himself.
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Twinky
You can be dam* sure that however much he drank, it waaayyyy exceeded the two-drink limit that he imposed on the Corps.
In fact, TWI threw people out for exceeding two drinks. Maybe he himself didn't throw people out (before my time) but I know LCM did.
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waysider
Thanks for those links, Rocky. It's especially important for us older folks, who have more occasion to have to deal with pain than some of our younger counterpart, to understand the dangers of mixing alcohol with acetaminophen.
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Bolshevik
Once a lab instructor held a human liver out in front of me and the class and said, "This is what happens when you mix alcohol and Tylenol" and then slammed the liver down on the table.
The noise?
Rock of Ages.
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Bolshevik
Thanks DWBH,
It sounds like he drank enough to be dependent. His thinking process and mental wiring were likely permanently altered. (I'm speculating this based on what I've read)
It is curious to me, that, anger-based-yelling became commonplace in TWI, by non-alcoholics. I would think this is because the venerated VPW was an alcohol-driven-yeller. (Here on GSC, LCM is the prime example, but, nearly everyone did it. From my own experience, that was standard, expected, admired, behavior in TWI.)
Also, I would wonder how much of the writing of PFAL might be substance-abuse influenced.
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Twinky
Possibly not much, since much was stolen and directly re-used in PFAL and in the book RHST.
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Bolshevik
*sip* . . . Ctrl-C . . . . *gulp* . . . Ctrl-V . . . *Chug* . . . Ctrl-S . . . *pours* . . . hit send
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Rocky
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WordWolf
There's not much I can add to this, but I can add a little. When vpw was going to visit an area for, say, a weekend, a local was tasked with finding, buying and bringing SEVERAL bottles of Drambuie to present to vpw for use during his stay there. Someone reported confusion on behalf of the person-who had never heard of the stuff before but now had to buy a stack of bottles so a minister had the stack for personal use while he visited them for the next 2 days, vpw also had this thing of breath mints to counteract the chronic smell of booze and smoking on his breath. He used to have a bowl of breath mints at the podium. He would put one or more in his mouth, break them to get to the inner, more effective part, and use them that way. When he was unclear, staff thought he wanted a bowl of 1/2 breath mints, all pre-broken into 2 parts.
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OldSkool
So that's where the bowl of mints came from. when I was in twi we always added a bowl of mints at the lectern for any event setup.
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Bolshevik
Ditto.
I recall one Limb leader specifically wanted tic-tacs.
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OldSkool
Ya gotta be clear and concerned!
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Bolshevik
Preparation is the highest form of believing.
That is why keeping a 3x5 card about each individual you know handy combined with excellent dental hygiene is a sign of godliness.
You don't want bad breathe to distract someone from hearing exactly how they are at fault for your own personal short-comings. The odor would not be a blessing.
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OldSkool
Rofl!!
From stringing chairs to dishes of mints to 3x5 cards. it's crazy to me to learn where these goofy practices came from and how I was taught insignificant minutia was the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household...blah blah....oh and table etiquette.
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waysider
When I became involved in 1972, the mints and Drambuie were already an established protocol. That doesn't really answer how much but it does give some perspective on how long the practice went on.
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OldSkool
Geez, I was born in 73. Nucking futts.
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chockfull
I would postulate that the inebriated brain led to the laziness involved with doing his own research, and looking for a more easy way out, like plagiarism.
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chockfull
The 1/2 mint syndrome survived past VP and on through the reign of terror of the non-drinking Baptist sexual predator. Uncanny.
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