Undertow - Escaping from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International

[WordWolf]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:16 PM, chockfull said:

Other religions don’t try to “sell” a DIY Bible that “interprets itself” and then bait and switch for a totalitarian environment where the top dogs dictate the interpretation with no tolerance for questioning.

Many other religions have deep tolerance for others and inclusion of others.

Many religions welcome the questioning of faith and beliefs.

The ones that do not are pretty much the large cults.  The same ones with an imbalance of power and plenty of unwritten rules for followers to trip over.

In addition,

if you're involved in a local church, you're generally not going to be harangued about conforming to the official doctrine and party line of the church.  If you're generally polite (don't disrupt a service, stand when everyone stands, etc.), they'll usually leave you alone on the specifics.   I grew up thinking the RCC was pretty inflexible (it was where/when I grew up) and was VERY surprised to find out the next parish over was VERY different, and focused on helping people and the community- in ADDITION to Bible meetings and so on (not "in place of", but "in addition to").   I joked with them that they were going to get in trouble if the Pope knew how they ran things, and they laughed along with me.  They even held (hold? I don't live nearby anymore)  an occasional service with another local church OF ANOTHER DENOMINATION.      If someone wants to insist they're pushing conformity after hearing all that, I can't do anything for them.

[Twinky]

"Militant piety" - LoL!!

[Twinky]

 

For all TWI's fundy-ness, I know of someone, a colleague, who takes the Bible even more literally.  He believes that the Earth was created 4000 years ago, and all the things in it.  It all went wrong, so was destroyed; then a new Earth and everything in it was recreated.  That's why there are two creation accounts in Genesis and they are not identical.

Yes, he really does believe this, or certainly did at one time.  He urged me to go to a lecture tour that was promoting this.  Even in my fundy post-TWI state, I found this one jaw-dropping.

Not sure if he still believes this.  I daren't ask.  At any rate, he now attends the church that I've been going to for years.  And nobody here believes that.  But then, we don't discuss that sort of thing at all in this church.  It's quite a long way from fundy-ness.

[penworks]

Hello, Greasespotters.

Looking back on our experiences in TWI, I think many of us can related to the content in the attached FREE article I re-published on my website. It's by Michael Langone who holds a PhD in counseling psychology and is the now-retired executive director of International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), which provides information, education, and help to those adversely affected by or interested in cultic and other “high-control” groups and relationships.

In my opinion, this article well describes aspects of cult ensnarement. Are we glad we escaped, one way or another?

Enjoy reading the "3-D Cult Experience."

 

3-D Cult Experience.pdf

[Rocky]

4 hours ago, penworks said:

Are we glad we escaped, one way or another?

I certainly am.  

[penworks]

In 2017, I was invited to speak to an American Studies class at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg in Germany. Afterwards, the professor, Dr. Maria Moss (also an editor of their American Studies Journal) asked to do a print interview with me. Here's the two-part result:

INTERVIEW

American Studies Journal.

Institute of English Studies and of the Zentraleinrichtung Moderne Sprachen (ZeMoS) at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg, Germany.

Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part I) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part II) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

 

[Nathan_Jr]

2 hours ago, penworks said:

In 2017, I was invited to speak to an American Studies class at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg in Germany. Afterwards, the professor, Dr. Maria Moss (also an editor of their American Studies Journal) asked to do a print interview with me. Here's the two-part result:

INTERVIEW

American Studies Journal.

Institute of English Studies and of the Zentraleinrichtung Moderne Sprachen (ZeMoS) at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg, Germany.

Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part I) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part II) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

 

Thanks, Charlene! Excellent little interview. Had me laughing out loud at the familiar absurdity of it all.

And congratulations on the honor from FAPA.

 

From the interview:

I think we were willing to brush off his mistakes because we really believed we should keep our focus on God’s Word, not Wierwille’s human errors. However, I know editors who tore out their hair trying to fix Wierwille’s transcribed sermons, making them presentable to print in The Way Magazine and in Way books. In general, we didn’t want to appear too sophisticated because Wierwille often scoffed at educated people, accusing them of being on ego trips.

 

Dr. 

 

 

 

(Hello, Irony!  I seeee yooouuu.)

 

 

[Bolshevik]

"Feelings come and go, the word of Gawd abideth forever"  . . . Or something

False Dichotomy 

Feelings do come and go

*tosses Bible into bon fire*  . . . *phoof*

. . . Didn't last forever

"The Word" means something different to everyone.  Therefore as subjective as feelings.  . . .  Maybe

 

Invalidation doesn't work as well if you're not seeking it

[Nathan_Jr]

37 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

"The Word" means something different to everyone.  Therefore as subjective as feelings.  . . .  Maybe

Surely

[chockfull]

10 hours ago, penworks said:

In 2017, I was invited to speak to an American Studies class at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg in Germany. Afterwards, the professor, Dr. Maria Moss (also an editor of their American Studies Journal) asked to do a print interview with me. Here's the two-part result:

INTERVIEW

American Studies Journal.

Institute of English Studies and of the Zentraleinrichtung Moderne Sprachen (ZeMoS) at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg, Germany.

Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part I) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

Escaping Fundamentalism: An Interview with Charlene L. Edge (Part II) | American Studies Blog (asjournal.org)

 

Thx for the interview links C.  They are interesting reads and I appreciate you doing them and sharing them.

I personally strongly connected with the feeling of getting my kids out from the influence of TWI for their lives and am thankful they have grown up outside that influence and are free to seek life liberty and the pursuit of happiness unencumbered by the bondage elements from a cult that I was faced with.

[Bolshevik]

"Fiction comes from the imagination only"

Pretty sure whoever made that claim had a full, open bottle of glue stuck in their nasal cavity.

[Nathan_Jr]

“I think we were willing to brush off his mistakes because we really believed we should keep our focus on God’s Word, not Wierwille’s human errors. However, I know editors who tore out their hair trying to fix Wierwille’s transcribed sermons, making them presentable to print in The Way Magazine and in Way books.“

[Nathan_Jr]

Something about a lost teaching urging dupes to focus on the victor’s written materials. 

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

“I think we were willing to brush off his mistakes because we really believed we should keep our focus on God’s Word, not Wierwille’s human errors. However, I know editors who tore out their hair trying to fix Wierwille’s transcribed sermons, making them presentable to print in The Way Magazine and in Way books.“

Human errors . . . As opposed to systematic error?  Or . . Spiritual errors?  Cause they were belieeeeving

[Nathan_Jr]

13 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Human errors . . . As opposed to systematic error?  Or . . Spiritual errors?  Cause they were belieeeeving

Beleeeving is so important when ignoring errors. I mean, above all, stand.

Hey! I didn’t write the book.

Got to MAKE it fit, even when it doesn’t. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Nathan_Jr

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

“I think we were willing to brush off his mistakes because we really believed we should keep our focus on God’s Word, not Wierwille’s human errors. However, I know editors who tore out their hair trying to fix Wierwille’s transcribed sermons, making them presentable to print in The Way Magazine and in Way books.“

This is another description of TWIG face.  Masked discomfort. Or pain.

Willing to brush off . . .  pain.  To choose pain.

[Nathan_Jr]

Tenacity is the salve for cognitive dissonance. 

[Bolshevik]

Just now, Nathan_Jr said:

Tenacity is the salve for cognitive dissonance. 

Or dualism.

[Bolshevik]

In a movie like, The Joker, he dances after committing murder.  Similar in a Clockwork Orange.  The two behaviors don't immediately relate.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Bolshevik
Human spelling error

[waysider]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Something about a lost teaching urging dupes to focus on the victor’s written materials.

He'd have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling TVT's.

[Nathan_Jr]

2 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

In a movie like, The Joker, he dances after committing murder.  Similar in a Clockwork Orange.  The two behaviors don't immediately relate.

 OJ’s bloody murder glove didn’t fit in the courtroom..but it DID fit… even though it didn’t… (It really did, it was HIS glove.)

Got to MAKE it fit, or make it NOT fit. 

[Bolshevik]

2 minutes ago, waysider said:

He'd have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling TVT's.

V is for verbal. Verbal implies words.  Words are infinitely defined by other words.

[Bolshevik]

2 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

 OJ’s bloody murder glove didn’t fit in the courtroom..but it DID fit… even though it didn’t… (It really did, it was HIS glove.)

Got to MAKE it fit, or make it NOT fit. 

Your perspective is making the answer unclear.  Shame shame shame.

[Nathan_Jr]

10 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Your perspective is making the answer unclear.  Shame shame shame.

Use the keys to clear the unclear. 

[Bolshevik]

4 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Use the keys to clear the unclear. 

The key to one key, is another key.

Simulacra