Undertow - Escaping from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International

[Kblosser]

Penworks, 

Just came to say how much I appreciate your openness in sharing your story.  I read your book this past summer and it was very eye opening.  I grew up in the way (born in 85) and left when I was 20.  My parents and brothers are still heavily involved, one being in the corps both in OH and in CO.  For those who have escaped and still have family members, the truth can be hard to navigate.  I often feel I may be too dramatic or overthinking what my childhood was and who I was surrounded by.  Reading your book and connecting with others is so validating.  Thank you for being honest and sharing your story so others can work through the healing process.

[penworks]

Dear Kblosser, thank YOU for sharing here and for reading Undertow. I'm deeply grateful to learn that my story benefitted you.

Be comforted in knowing that many others are in your shoes, trying to figure out their path through life, too. I had a lot of support over the years, some from good folks I connected with on this site. 

I trust you have loving people in your life to be there for you.

Take good care of yourself.

Wishing you peace,

Charlene

 

[penworks]

Hello Greasespotters,

If you subscribe to my blog, you may remember a post that covers the behind-the-scenes story of writing Undertow. 

I thought I'd share that story here.

 

 

Dear Rachel.pdf

Edited June 16, 2023 by penworks
added page numbers to attached file.

[Rocky]

8 hours ago, penworks said:

Hello Greasespotters,

If you subscribe to my blog, you may remember a post that covers the behind-the-scenes story of writing Undertow. 

I thought I'd share that story here.

 

 

Dear Rachel.pdf 119.48 kB · 4 downloads

Quote

 

During the previous couple of years, you know I had to let go of old ways of thinking and muster a lot of gumption, hoping that somehow by jumping off the cliff of the known and out into the unknown I’d be okay. I think you know that my having gone back to college the last year we spent there surely had boosted my self-confidence, but I was still pretty scared.

 

What a powerful pair of sentences. When I reflect on your story (of your experience here), I can't help but try to quantify our "agency," or free will. 

Reflecting back to MY "divorce" from the cult, I see how important social influences are in exercising our free will. Yet, even after having broken socially (with support from others who left at the same time) from twi, it still, for far too long of a time, kept me under its influence NOT by way of biblically-based behavioral practices, but by unwritten and highly toxic mores.

It took me years to minimize twi's role in my life. 

I'm very thankful you persevered in getting your story into print. 

[Mike]

20 minutes ago, Rocky said:

It took me years to minimize twi's role in my life.

What I did in 1986 was wait, and I gave the Board of Trustees 2 years to "splain" themselves, all the Geer hoopla, Schoenheit Paper, and stuff. 

I watched the Way Mag and SNS tapes diligently for any clues or announcements, but there was nothing. The BOT left us non-Corps to struggle alone with the rumor mills, and the unfortunate facts. 

After 2 years of abandonment I got a quickie Mexican divorce, and took the kids with me...   the PFAL videos that is.  But I left with thankfulness for the past, and an eye to when they would calm down at HQ. 

 

[Rocky]

54 minutes ago, Mike said:

What I did in 1986 was wait, and I gave the Board of Trustees 2 years to "splain" themselves, all the Geer hoopla, Schoenheit Paper, and stuff. 

I watched the Way Mag and SNS tapes diligently for any clues or announcements, but there was nothing. The BOT left us non-Corps to struggle alone with the rumor mills, and the unfortunate facts. 

After 2 years of abandonment I got a quickie Mexican divorce, and took the kids with me...   the PFAL videos that is.  But I left with thankfulness for the past, and an eye to when they would calm down at HQ. 

 

Yet, all of that "non-splainin" hadn't then, and still hasn't clued you in that perhaps the "foundation" was built on sand?

[So_crates]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

What I did in 1986 was wait, and I gave the Board of Trustees 2 years to "splain" themselves, all the Geer hoopla, Schoenheit Paper, and stuff. 

I watched the Way Mag and SNS tapes diligently for any clues or announcements, but there was nothing. The BOT left us non-Corps to struggle alone with the rumor mills, and the unfortunate facts. 

After 2 years of abandonment I got a quickie Mexican divorce, and took the kids with me...   the PFAL videos that is.  But I left with thankfulness for the past, and an eye to when they would calm down at HQ. 

 

Yet, you said, you paid 100 skins for the so-called new, improved PLAF class.

[Mike]

5 hours ago, So_crates said:

Yet, you said, you paid 100 skins for the so-called new, improved PLAF class.

No, I paid that to again experience the 3 weeks of synchronized thought of a group of believers.  All of my reviewing of the class was solo for the past 35+ years.   That minds could synchronize that way was a common occurrence before 1986 for me, and I missed it.  It was worth more than $100.

It also give me an inroad to help them with better classes in the future.

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

No, I paid that to again experience the 3 weeks of synchronized thought of a group of believers.  All of my reviewing of the class was solo for the past 35+ years.   That minds could synchronize that way was a common occurrence before 1986 for me, and I missed it.  It was worth more than $100.

It also give me an inroad to help them with better classes in the future.

I might be mistaken, but the way you worded that thought sounds like you for a long time have longed for a sense of community. I relate to that sentiment. It's not unique to twi.

This book by the late M. Scott Peck (author of the Road Less Traveled), Different Drum: Community Making and Peace, might interest you. I read it before Peck passed. The book spoke to me (figuratively).

[Mike]

1 minute ago, Rocky said:

I might be mistaken, but the way you worded that thought sounds like you for a long time have longed for a sense of community. I relate to that sentiment. It's not unique to twi.

This book by the late M. Scott Peck (author of the Road Less Traveled), Different Drum: Community Making and Peace, might interest you. I read it before Peck passed. The book spoke to me (figuratively).

You sensed that right.  I do long for the family.   It was a wonderfully functioning family at one time, and it will be again when we see Christ.

I liked reading M. Scott Peck.  Thanks for the tip.

 

[Twinky]

50 minutes ago, Mike said:

You sensed that right.  I do long for the family.   It was a wonderfully functioning family at one time, and it will be again when we see Christ.

You might want to try a good church near you.  You may find more sense of community than you expect (if not, try a different church). 

You'll find people have in common the love of Christ, honour for God, sharing time and resources, grace, patience, helping one another.  You may also find a range of different Christian PoVs, so there can be interesting discussions - but all these will be tempered by respect and love.  You probably won't find lots of pretend Greek exposition, but you will find lots of loving action, help, service, and good teaching on relevant subjects for today's challenges in life.

You won't find face-meltings, tearing others down in the guise of "tough love," and a constant demand for your money.  If you do, walk out 

Don't condemn it before you give it a good, serious try.

[Twinky]

22 minutes ago, Twinky said:

You might want to try a good church near you.  You may find more sense of community than you expect (if not, try a different church). 

MIKE:
I just came across this in this week's newsletter from the central church in my city.  I thought you might find this interesting, to see what you should be looking for if you take up my suggestion to find a good local church community near you.  It's written by an Anglican bishop, but the fundamentals apply to ALL churches.

 

This week Bishop Michael held a diocesan gathering in Bridgwater and spoke profoundly of our shared multifaceted ministry. He underlined simply and expansively that we need each other. On one level we might say, surely this is nothing new. But, there is a new emphasis in the Church of England on what it really means to ‘share’ in ministry as God’s people – as lay and ordained leaders, as church family, and as volunteers. So what does this mean for us? Firstly, all of us are called to share in praying for the Abbey and our mission across the city. Secondly, we are all called to encourage each other, to notice each others’ skills and gifts, and to affirm one another in them. Thirdly, we are all called to value everyone whom God brings through our doors. Fourthly, every voice matters.  
 
Recently Bishop Michael has been highlighting the priorities of the diocese in this new season, and be encouraged they align very closely with our own:

• To value and cherish people.  
• To develop new Christian worshipping communities.
• To share in ministry and leadership.
• To deepen and grow in faith.

At the Abbey we are blessed to have such an abundance of gifts through you. Thank you for all you contribute to the life of the Abbey. And special thanks to those of you whose work and ministry is often hidden, for example: our Holy Dusters, Intercessors, Administrators, and not least the work of our Church Wardens! Last night, our Archdeacon, Adrian Youings formally welcomed and admitted Church Wardens across the Archdeaconry, and it was a joy to share in this service with David and Andrew. We now welcome David Babb as he works alongside Andrew Bragg in this role.

... [photo]     

Each year Bath and Wells highlights a passage of scripture to ‘dwell with’. This year it is Romans 12.6-16a which speaks of the marks of a Christian. Paul writes:

“Let love be genuine; hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good; love one another with mutual affection; outdo one another in showing honour. Do not lag in zeal, be ardent in spirit, serve the Lord.  Rejoice in hope, be patient in suffering, persevere in prayer. Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers”.
 
In so many ways, these characteristics are so prevalent among us as a church, but are there new ways in which we can deepen even further our expressions of love, honour, prayer, zeal and hospitality?

May God’s image in me be restored, and my imagination in God be re-storied.
May the gravity of material things be lightened, and the relativity of time slow down.
May I know grace to embrace my own finite smallness in the arms of God’s infinite greatness.
May God’s Word feed me and His Spirit lead me into the week to come. Amen.

[OldSkool]

Came to read along and the strangest thing happened...mike hijacked the thread...man that never happens....

[chockfull]

Here’s an interesting thought.  Of the two accounts written of TWI history during that timeframe - 70s - early Way Corps - research department - one of them was written by an inspired author wanting to journal, tell her story, and heal,

The other one was more of a coerced account - Dottie really had little motivation to write or finish Born Again To Serve.  The project drug out for years and the finished result you can see basically she filled in about 80 percent of the content with scrapbook type material and basic facts as opposed to really telling a story.

One can be bought in the bookstore.  The other if on your shelf would be a reason for disciplinary action.   

Nobody wins Pulitzer Prizes under a communist government regime.

[waysider]

17 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Nobody wins Pulitzer Prizes under a communist government regime.

Solzhenitsyn won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1970, but I do see your point.

[So_crates]

5 hours ago, Mike said:

It also give me an inroad to help them with better classes in the future.

What makes you think they want to improve? They got your Franklin; they have no motive to improve.

They wouldn't listen to anyone in 1986, what would motivate them to listen to anyone now? The ministry has always been: we give the orders, it's your job to get with the program. And you think they want to improve?

Honestly, if one of us came to you and told you we want to help you teach the bible better in the future would you listen?

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by So_crates

[OldSkool]

31 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Here’s an interesting thought.  Of the two accounts written of TWI history during that timeframe - 70s - early Way Corps - research department - one of them was written by an inspired author wanting to journal, tell her story, and heal,

The other one was more of a coerced account - Dottie really had little motivation to write or finish Born Again To Serve.  The project drug out for years and the finished result you can see basically she filled in about 80 percent of the content with scrapbook type material and basic facts as opposed to really telling a story.

One can be bought in the bookstore.  The other if on your shelf would be a reason for disciplinary action.   

Nobody wins Pulitzer Prizes under a communist government regime.

Thats interesting. Never considered this point and you are exactly right. Teling isnt it. Most of the book itself was cobbed together through her diaries and notes and scrapbook type materials...dead on the money. She must have been so happy to get the wonderful opportunity to sift through all those years of lies and deceit concerning the man she called mean at his funeral. Interesting.

[Stayed Too Long]

5 hours ago, So_crates said:

What makes you think they want to improve? They got your Franklin; they have no motive to improve.

They wouldn't listen to anyone in 1986, what would motivate them to listen to anyone now? The ministry has always been: we give the orders, it's your job to get with the program. And you think they want to improve?

Can you point out a religion that doesn’t operate like TWI? 
Try telling the Pope their is no purgarory? See if he thanks you for pointing out the error and drops purgatory from their catechism? The Pope didn’t take to kindly to Martin Luther telling him indulgences could not be bought and paid.

All groups, religious ones included, have rules that are very difficult to change, TWI didn’t invent brandishing those who went against their beliefs. It happens today still in other religions. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rocky]

9 hours ago, So_crates said:

What makes you think they want to improve? They got your Franklin; they have no motive to improve.

They wouldn't listen to anyone in 1986, what would motivate them to listen to anyone now? The ministry has always been: we give the orders, it's your job to get with the program. And you think they want to improve?

Honestly, if one of us came to you and told you we want to help you teach the bible better in the future would you listen?

 

Actually it makes ME think... the real question(s) for Mike have thus far been aiming at the wrong ideological target.

13 hours ago, Mike said:

You sensed that right.  I do long for the family.   It was a wonderfully functioning family at one time, and it will be again when we see Christ.

I liked reading M. Scott Peck.  Thanks for the tip.

Mike may have just opened up what is/are the actual underlying reason(s) for his obstinance regarding twi/vpw/pflap.

I think back to when I spent a year as a wow ambassador in Fremont, OH. Lots of ups and downs that year (40+ years ago). BUT for me, the "nugget" emerged in the Spring of that year when I found time semi-regularly to pray and be alone in a wonderful little spot of nature along a creek on the west side of town. After the green foliage began to emerge with the change of season, that spot became my refuge.

Shortly thereafter, I met a family of three, one son, and a couple. We connected and the two adults "took the class."

For years thereafter, I longgggged to find that kind of refuge again, but it eluded me. Beginning in the early 1990s, I began reading M Scott Peck books on my daily commutes to work in downtown Phoenix. 

Shortly thereafter, my crucible became more intense as I went through divorce. But I've been reading increasingly in the 30 years since. I've found some answers. My life has changed dramatically for the better.

Most importantly, I've learned that community is FAR from exclusive to twi. And it is very much available to people. God makes the rain fall on the just and the unjust. 

 

[Mike]

2 hours ago, Rocky said:

Actually it makes ME think... the real question(s) for Mike have thus far been aiming at the wrong ideological target.

Mike may have just opened up what is/are the actual underlying reason(s) for his obstinance regarding twi/vpw/pflap.

 

No, it's not that way.

I'm happy with all the tools I learned in PFAL, and all the things that VPW found, and all the things I've found with the tools.

The best community would be one where everyone appreciated and worked those tools.  I am patiently waiting for that, and trying to make it happen (again) as much as possible.

Meanwhile, emotionally and socially, I am not Jones-ing for community at all.  I have an abundance of that; far more than I ever had in my life.  It's with the Grateful Dead community.

[Nathan_Jr]

41 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm happy with all the tools I learned in PFAL, and all the things that VPW found, and all the things I've found with the tools.

 

 

 

 

He wasn’t a real doctor and those weren’t real tools. 

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

 

No, it's not that way.

I'm happy with all the tools I learned in PFAL, and all the things that VPW found, and all the things I've found with the tools.

The best community would be one where everyone appreciated and worked those tools.  I am patiently waiting for that, and trying to make it happen (again) as much as possible.

Meanwhile, emotionally and socially, I am not Jones-ing for community at all.  I have an abundance of that; far more than I ever had in my life.  It's with the Grateful Dead community.

I understand. However, at some point, you might look at the situation differently. 

[chockfull]

21 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Can you point out a religion that doesn’t operate like TWI? 
Try telling the Pope their is no purgarory? See if he thanks you for pointing out the error and drops purgatory from their catechism? The Pope didn’t take to kindly to Martin Luther telling him indulgences could not be bought and paid.

All groups, religious ones included, have rules that are very difficult to change, TWI didn’t invent brandishing those who went against their beliefs. It happens today still in other religions. 

 

 

 

 

 

Other religions don’t try to “sell” a DIY Bible that “interprets itself” and then bait and switch for a totalitarian environment where the top dogs dictate the interpretation with no tolerance for questioning.

Many other religions have deep tolerance for others and inclusion of others.

Many religions welcome the questioning of faith and beliefs.

The ones that do not are pretty much the large cults.  The same ones with an imbalance of power and plenty of unwritten rules for followers to trip over.

[chockfull]

14 hours ago, Mike said:

 

No, it's not that way.

I'm happy with all the tools I learned in PFAL, and all the things that VPW found, and all the things I've found with the tools.

The best community would be one where everyone appreciated and worked those tools.  I am patiently waiting for that, and trying to make it happen (again) as much as possible.

Meanwhile, emotionally and socially, I am not Jones-ing for community at all.  I have an abundance of that; far more than I ever had in my life.  It's with the Grateful Dead community.

I just wanted to burn a post to say that my give-a-shiz meter has not wandered above zero.

As you stated you can find community among the pro Plaffy Facebook groups and other places.

Here on a thread about escaping fundamentalism and cult control you are not going to find community by embracing fundamentalism and cult control.

But that hasn’t stopped you so far.

[penworks]

On 6/16/2023 at 5:01 PM, Rocky said:

What a powerful pair of sentences. When I reflect on your story (of your experience here), I can't help but try to quantify our "agency," or free will. 

Reflecting back to MY "divorce" from the cult, I see how important social influences are in exercising our free will. Yet, even after having broken socially (with support from others who left at the same time) from twi, it still, for far too long of a time, kept me under its influence NOT by way of biblically-based behavioral practices, but by unwritten and highly toxic mores.

It took me years to minimize twi's role in my life. 

I'm very thankful you persevered in getting your story into print. 

I appreciate your kind comments, Rocky.

Over the years, I've written about fundamentalism and cults on my blog. Some readers here may be interested in the background of fundamentalism and what makes The Way fundamentalist in its approach to and application of Scripture, so in the attached file, I share what I've learned about that.

Stay well everyone!

Charlene

https://charleneedge.com

 

TWI and fundamentalism.pdf