Few people have shaped the day-to-day management of people and companies more than Ken Blanchard, author of The One Minute Manager, which has sold more than 13 million copies. The book was so successful that he had trouble taking credit for its success. He began to think about God. He started to read the Bible. He went straight to the Gospels. He wanted to know what Jesus did.
He became fascinated with how Jesus transformed twelve ordinary, and unlikely, people into the first generation of leaders of a movement that continues to affect the course of world history 2,000 years later. He became aware that everything he had ever taught or written about effective leadership, Jesus had done to perfection way beyond Ken’s ability to portray or describe.
Jesus is more than just a spiritual leader. He gives a practical and effective leadership model for all organisations, for all people, for all situations. You may not think of yourself as a leader, but leadership is about influence. You do have influence, therefore, in a sense, all of us are leaders.
Jesus is the greatest leader of all time. In the passages for today, we see some of the characteristics of Jesus’ leadership together with those of two other great influencers in the Bible – David and Job.
And thanks to Pawtucket for keeping GSC open all these years …
Cheers.
Yes,.........thanks to Paw for all of his years of labor.
And, while we are passing out the thanks........I just want to thank again Paul All-en for his strength of will and integrity of heart to take THIS FIGHT HEAD-ON..... the point of the spear to strike at the underbelly of the beast, The Way International and its deceptive practices and hiding the sexual predators in its midst.
LOOK AT WHAT'S CHANGED..........in these past 21 years!!
LOTS MORE..........have found the exit doors!
................[Early quote from this thread] "When Pa-ul All-en found out that Craig Martindale was using his "spiritual authority" to have sex with Paul's wife......he demanded a face-to-face confrontation at Craig's office in the Corps Chalet and that Rosalie, then vice-prez, and John Reynolds, then sec-treasurer, be there. This took place late in the evening.....like 10:30 or 11pm. Reynolds tried to berate Paul and talk him out of it......but Paul was livid.
So.....the face-to-face meeting happened. Martindale was seated at his desk, Reynolds and Rivenbark were there.....and John Linder, security patrol man, stool alongside the wall brandishing his glock 9mm handgun. Paul All-en demanded martindale's RESIGNATION.......Feb 1999. Martindale balked and tried to bribe Paul with a job promotion if they could resolve this adultery [sex predation] quietly. NO WAY, NO HOW. Paul was having none of it.......Reynolds and Rivenbark sided with Craig and wanted to sweep in under the carpet. As things escalated.......Craig ordered Linder to give Paul (and his wife, Fern) the bum's rush: to escort Paul to his dorm room in founder's hall, pack his things and get him and ferne off grounds within hours [in the cover of darkness]. By noon meal next day, martindale fabricated the story and told staffers that the allens were "possessed" etc. etc. [same drill used time and time again.]
Within three weeks......Paul, a computer website guru, had Waydale up and running. The sole mission of the website, the forerunner of GSC was two-fold: To seek and destroy 1) The Way International and 2) Craig Martindale....... hence Waydale.
Reynolds and Rivenbark were the sleaze that continued to cover for martindale.....until the lawyers got involved and strongly recommended that martindale be ousted for legal/insurance liabilities. So, the "man-in-tights-from-spirits-in-the-athlete" fame who had been salted and oiled by dikter wierwille himself slithered to Toledo, Ohio to a twi-owned house......trying to take him off-grid from one and all. No forwarding address. No phone listing. No one need ask questions....its NONE of your business [to hell it isn't !!]. See, that's the essence of all those dirty, little secrets at twi: You, little peon, have NO RIGHT TO QUESTION THEM. They can lie to you face, intimidate you into submission.......but when they utterly screw up, Reynolds and Rivenbark use every weapon in their arsenal to keep THEIR secrets.
And......Reynolds and Rivenbark have been JYDL's mentors........."
I'm sure that there's people out there who like to pretend I spend all my free time just slandering people. As a reminder they're wrong, I'd like to point out that I think MOST OF US had the best intentions and a lot of us really wanted to serve God and be our best for God. For MOST OF US, I don't fault our goals, our intentions, our sincerity.
As for wierwille, that was another story.
He himself lied about what "sincerity" was. We agree it's " no guarantee of truth", since someone can sincerely believe the Earth is flat. But someone who is "sincere" is someone who genuinely says what they think and believe, period. vpw said that "the salesman who tries to sell you the toothbrush that has only 1 bristle in it, he's gotta be real sincere!" Looking back, it says a lot that he made that claim. He said that the salesman who tried to INTENTIONALLY DECEIVE YOU, but who puts forth an IMAGE of sincerity, a FALSE FRONT of sincerity, that person IS " sincere." So, vpw really believed " sincerity" was something that could be COMPLETELY FAKED. THIS is the man whom we trusted as having done as he claimed, dedicating his life to God and the Bible and so on. Because we believed that, we gave him a free pass on scrutiny, and a lot of stuff flew under our radars (like his definition of "sincerity." )
Someone commented on my calling vpw a " plagiarizing rapist." That term offends some people. They think you can't call someone that. The truth is- you can call someone that IF IT IS TRUE. A leader is supposed to be found BLAMELESS. If I made the claims and they were without grounds, then he would be found BLAMELESS.
Was vpw a rapist? A NUMBER of women have come forth. Some said he molested them, some said he raped them, some said he drugged THEN molested or raped them. According to the Bible, if 3 or more witnesses claim something, we are to accept it. We had MANY women who said vpw raped them. We had people break down the entire SYSTEM vpw set up. First, he had people write " from birth to the corps" papers, if they wanted to enter the way corps. He used those papers to help screen his victims. People with a past having been a victim of something can be victimized by it again, later, more easily than others. We had accounts of women who said he had their paper IN HIS HAND when he called them in to try and rape them. vpw had A FEW places where he had privacy and a sort of bed- his office, his mobile office, etc. vpw had a network of conspirators who kept an eye out. One could be counted on to bring the women to him and make it look like an innocent calling. Others were to watch her after vpw raped her, and " counsel" her to not consider it rape, not to go to the police. If she seemed likely to go to the police, others gave her the bum's rush off grounds, sending her home by slow Greyhound bus. Why that way? Partly because it was cheap, partly because it gave them time to make phone calls and ruin her reputation before she got home- so nobody would believe her when she said vpw raped her.
We had accounts of specific things he said to different women- variations on the same line of patter, since he used that as part of his strategy. We have accounts of what drinks he plied them with, and other details that make me sick. In short, we had PREMEDITATION. He put a LOT of work into his plan. He planned out who to attack, where to attack them, how to attack them, and what to do afterwards to make sure he didn't go to jail. Ever wonder why he wanted an armed bodyguard as he walked the grounds? He never said why he might need one, but I think we all have the most likely possibility in mind....
So, he was a rapist. Furthermore, he was a plagiarist. He also put in a lot of work into getting ahold of the work of quality Christians, concealing those works, then presenting their work as his own. The contents of the pfal class were all ripped off of Leonard, Stiles, and Bullinger (with a little from a few others.) He claimed he worked alone with God, and INSINUATED that everything he taught was from God Almighty to his ears. That included crackpot theories he got from the phone hotline of the John Birch Society. Oh, yes, ONCE he claimed what he taught wasn't original. Was in in the introduction of one book with his name as the author? NO. In the promotional book "The Way-Living in Love", buried over 100 pages in, was an offhand comment. "Nothing I teach is original. Putting it together, that was the original part." No such claim in the Orange Book. No such claim in the White Book. In fact, the White Book he supposedly wrote all by himself in a hotel room, living off grapes. If you remove all of Stiles work and Bullinger's work from the book, then remove Leonard's, you probably will just have the introduction. All the CONTENT was from those men- which is NOT stated anywhere in that book.
vpw had 2 types of books with his name as the author. The later, more polished books were written by the research department. He added the introduction and his name as the author. I'm given to understand this is legal- but I personally think it's unethical. He should at least have listed himself as EDITOR, not AUTHOR. The others are the older twi books, and those are compilations of the works of other writers, sometimes with rephrasings, sometimes still with their own phrasings retained. Side by side comparisons of their books have been shown. Ever notice his vocabulary and speaking style sometimes were not reflected in the books? That's because they weren't his books. Ever hear him call someone a " faith-blaster?" That was another writer's term, and vpw just retyped it. By vpw's terms, it at least would have been a " believing-blaster", except he never used "blaster" when speaking.
In the early editions of the White Book, he mentioned finding teacher who could make the Holy Spirit field fit. A few editions later, he skips mentioning the man, not even giving Leonard his due credit anonymously. vpw knew very well what he was doing, and tried to cover his tracks somewhat.
So, in short, vpw was a plagiarizing rapist. He taught some good Bible because he was parroting the work of those who were quality Christians. I'm thankful to have heard it, but I'm not giving vpw a pass on plagiarizing or raping- or anything else he did- because of it.
Perhaps, you will slip into the big chair and be able to make BIG CHANGES during your tenure......to elevate Jesus Christ in his rightful and honored place as lord, savior, and mediator between God and man. Perhaps......you will turn the ship 180 degrees and get back to true Christian values where believers are guided by holy spirit within. Perhaps.....you will be able to clean the ranks of arrogant and abusive leaders that have sat in their seats of power at headquarters for 30+ years. But if you are going to make any difference whatsoever......you will have to keep Rosalie and Donna from whispering in your ear on a weekly basis.
Above from the original post.
We're now four years on. What's happened? What changes at TWI? Is anything substantively different?
That's a big NO, then. It's just that the rabbit hole got a bit deeper. Maybe it's even harder for those still there to find their way out.
Rosalie's going to pop her clogs one day - what, is she in her 80s now? Maybe it'll all fall apart then. Unless Rupp or Greene make a power-grab. Not sure Donna would.
That's a big NO, then. It's just that the rabbit hole got a bit deeper. Maybe it's even harder for those still there to find their way out.
.........
Lots of rabbit holes around...........there are splinter holes everywhere.
The latest teaching from R&R.......Sow to Grow is another low-level, disjointed mixture of cherry-picked scriptures, conjectures, inferences and story-telling that is pawned off as a "Revival and Restoration" Bible teaching. Let me just give you a bullet-point depiction of Rev. Tom Knu-pp's teaching:
"You are a farmer of sorts if you've ever engaged in any kind of lawn care."
"A little known fact is that grass is the most grown crop in America."
Within the first minute of teaching......he parlays this into why you'd buy a certain grass seed and NOT crabgrass seed.
Yeah, buying crabgrass seed to sow in your lawn?? Really? What a juvenile comparison.....
Ugh........within 3 minutes.......Tom is giving a heads-up that there is a thief out there to thwart your efforts.
Further ugh......by the 5-minute mark he jumps into this tangent about birds and how to sow right thoughts in your mind.
Interloper eggs/chicks raised in another bird's nest.....like the mother warbler, we are the guardians of our nest (our thoughts).
Okay......in 9 minutes......from crops, to grass, to God's garden, to the devil's evil, to birds, interloper tactics, and guardians of your own nest, your mind.
And there's more.............
Having grown up on a farm......with wheat, corn, milo and alfalfa, I'm sure that I would have taught this subject FAR DIFFERENTLY.
What is one of the first rules of teaching?.........KNOW YOUR SUBJECT.
While grass might be technically considered a "crop"........NOBODY in the farming industry would address it that way. It is laughable to think of farming in terms of someone's front lawn!. Really? Where is the topographical consideration of soil fertility, moisture content, growing season, crop selection, crop rotation, tilling, weeding fertilizer options, management, financial leveraging, harvesting, market availability, etc. etc......and the viability of doing this decade after decade reaping a profit?
PULLEEASE.........
Now, I do NOT expect a full dissertation on farm management when someone wants to teach on "Sow to Grow".......but to launch into this premise that "grass is the most grown crop in America." Uh, no. It would have, at least, been FAR BETTER, if he had made sowing/weeding/harvesting analogous to growing a vegetable garden. But this teaching? Wrong premise. Too disjointed. All over the place. Ugh. I find this disjointed presentation a huge disservice to those who want to learn biblical truths. If that is representative of "Revival and Restoration" CLERGY teachings, then stick a fork in it.They are done!
As you would know, T-Bone ....... since you are a big fan of the cinema world ........ District 13 is the center of the new rebellion.
Those who have been held captive by cult indoctrination and their overlords..........NEED to regain their freedom from cult-twi AND its splinters.
Ok, yeah I got you now...it’s been awhile since I read and saw The Hunger Games trilogy. Like The Matrix, Hunger Games has similar themes of what is fake/real, the motivation to survive (evident in all the main characters), rebellion & revolution.
TWI and splinters survive by the way they ensnare folks in the virtual world of wierwille’s delusion; unbeknownst to followers they have become captivated by core beliefs that are held like almost absolute truths - and which often function as rules and regulations to control the way things are done and even the way people behave - thus the threat of rebellion is reduced or nonexistent.
For example in the foundational class followers are taught the road down to failing God starts with questioning “The Word” (wierwille's manipulative teaching about Genesis 3 ).As one gets more involved with the group, that expands to questioning leadership is the road down to failure - failing God and the ministry.
My hope and prayer for folks still involved with these religious fakers is that in reading about the other side of the story here on Grease Spot (that is, the real story ) is that perhaps the pilot light on critical thinking gets rekindled; that is how you can survive a cult!!! (though not always guaranteed, things like rebellion and revolution are sometimes byproducts of critical thinking) ... Speaking of critical thinking, Jesus Christ often challenged the status quo not only of the religious hypocrites but even of his own followers; check out what Jesus said to his followers criticizing others outside their group who were doing work in Jesus’ name in Luke 9: 49, 50 It must be a cult trademark of TWI and splinters to be so critical of anyone not associated with their group.
It must be a cult trademark of TWI and splinters to be so critical of anyone not associated with their group.
TWI has nothing special there. It's just a "cult trademark" generally to be critical of those not associated with their group - especially if that's some sort of religious group.
TWI has nothing special there. It's just a "cult trademark" generally to be critical of those not associated with their group - especially if that's some sort of religious group.
A cult survives by hardening the line between "us" and "them", and making "them" so repugnant that we're glad we're not "them." That way, even when "us" are badly oppressed, we're still glad that at least we're not "them". For cults, only "us" qualify for salvation. In twi, for decades now, to leave twi is to leave " the household of God" and forfeit rewards, salvation, or both. People who stay in twi are so lulled to sleep that they don't question how wrong that is.
A cult survives by hardening the line between "us" and "them", and making "them" so repugnant that we're glad we're not "them." That way, even when "us" are badly oppressed, we're still glad that at least we're not "them". For cults, only "us" qualify for salvation. In twi, for decades now, to leave twi is to leave " the household of God" and forfeit rewards, salvation, or both. People who stay in twi are so lulled to sleep that they don't question how wrong that is.
Thanks WW.........year after year, cult leaders constrict their messaging in attempts to target, and amass, zealous followers. Clearly, wierwille went thru a growing curve when he left his denominational church pastoring in December 1957. For 10 years, he traveled from city to city to teach "his" classes to church-goers..........struggling to gain momentum and/or notoriety. After filming the skinny-tie class (pfal) in 1967.......twi's summer camps helped harden the lines between "us" and "them."
To add to your post......I would say that:
A cult survives by..........
Hardening the line between "us" and "them"
Hardening the line between "them" and "him"
How did wierwille harden the line between "them" and "him?" Well, when he plagiarized from other men......he realized later on that he needed to ERASE THE EVIDENCE of this plagiarism and DISTANCE himself from them. In his folly, wierwille admitted another man had schooled him in all this information.... [noted in the 2nd Edition preface section of Receiving the holy spirit Today]. Who was this man? J.E. Stiles
"The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all I had been taught and start anew
with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook. It took me seven years to find a man of God
schooled in the Holy Spirit, a man who knew the Scripture on the Holy Spirit, and could fit it together
so that I did not have to omit, deny or change any one passage. He made the Scripture fit
like a hand fits into a glove, and when you can do that, you can be assured of having truth."
~~~~~~~
Years later......wierwille covered his tracks of plagiarism.
Also, in order to herald "the man of God" title.......wierwille could NOT have equals, let alone superiors.
J.E. Stiles, the man who schooled wierwille..........had to be erased from being recognized in the 7th Edition preface:
"The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all that I had heard
and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as
my textbook. I did not want to omit, deny, or change any passage for, the Word of God
being the will of God, the Scripture must fit like a hand in a glove."
My hope and prayer for folks still involved with these religious fakers is that in reading about the other side of the story here on Grease Spot (that is, the real story ) is that perhaps the pilot light on critical thinking gets rekindled; that is how you can survive a cult!!! (though not always guaranteed, things like rebellion and revolution are sometimes byproducts of critical thinking) ... Speaking of critical thinking, Jesus Christ often challenged the status quo not only of the religious hypocrites but even of his own followers
..........
Yeah, T-Bone......I believe that GSC has lit that pilot light of critical thinking which, in turn, ignites the "fireplace" of one's thought life and soul.
How many? I have no idea......but it must be quite significant, because new posters often cite that they had been lurking for years! YEARS. Like someone shuffling around in a cold house, year after year......because s/he doesn't focus on the problem or is unconcerned with altering the situation.
Challenge ALL of it.....
If twi claims such greatness...............where are all the people?
If wierwille was so great......................why all the revisionist history?
If research is their wheelhouse...........why is there NO research department?
If teaching is their claim to fame.........why do they have to rehash old stuff?
If fellowship is their drawing card........why ANOTHER exodus in 2017?
Cults keep you sleepwalking thru life........in your drab bathrobe all day long.
Thanks MUCH Twinky, and all others who are continuing to post their VERY valuable insights and documentation, and share their humorous hitting-the-mark remarks!!!
So, gotta repost GrouchoMarxJr's great line from 10/12009, if I may- "Wierwille was to Christianity what Jeffrey Dahmer was to gourmet dining." . 'Course, I doubt that it will help anyone still embedded in the No man's/woman's land of way cult world to come out, but it sure as heck blesses me to re-share it, and maybe someone else is ready to process more as I have been...
Thanks MUCH Twinky, and all others who are continuing to post their VERY valuable insights and documentation, and share their humorous hitting-the-mark remarks!!!
So, gotta repost GrouchoMarxJr's great line from 10/12009, if I may- "Wierwille was to Christianity what Jeffrey Dahmer was to gourmet dining." . 'Course, I doubt that it will help anyone still embedded in the No man's/woman's land of way cult world to come out, but it sure as heck blesses me to re-share it, and maybe someone else is ready to process more as I have been...
Best to ALL of you still here!!!
Thanks annio.........appreciate it and glad you're here.
I, too, always liked GrouchoMarxJr's postings. He never minced words. They were direct and to the point. Like so many others who've passed thru these GSC doors......these past posters helped to blaze a trail for freedom lovers.
So often, in the past.......wierwille apologists would come to this site and try to laud vpw's teachings while, at the same time, denigrate our postings/experiences. Seemingly, everything was "so great" during Dr. Wierwille's presidency......and then, it ALL went down hill when martindale took over. Nowadays, it looks like those wierwille-defenders have fallen away........simply because Greasespot Café has so thoroughly and utterly exposed wierwille's and twi's manipulation and deception.
In these 30 or more letters, wierwille scoffs at corps who are not "committed to the cause." Throughout there is no meaningful mention of God's nature, inner-working via holy spirit, fruit in one's life, personal development--(education, marriage, family, goals, careers), living for God....etc.
Letter after letter.........just wierwille lamenting that corps and clergy are LEAVING.
There is no way that this narcissist could conceive that he was off-course. Nope. He blames others for "not getting it" and leaving. This compilation of letters simply verifies what so many have been posting all these years....i.e. there has been a continual exiting of corps since, at least, 1976/1977.
It did NOT take Geer's poop paper to awaken hundreds of corps. Some left during corps training. Some left on their interim year. Some immediately left after graduation, never to return.
Some corps left to pursue careers, family choices, higher education or military service. Some limb and region coordinators left after years of faithful service. In 1978, my limb coordinator in Georgia, 4th corps........left in July prior to the rock of ages. He and his wife wanted to move in another direction with their lives. There were corps men and women exiting every year. That's why wierwille kept writing those "corps letters".......it was one of his strategic methods to guilt corps into not abandoning him. Even his yes-men, bodyguards, valets, pilots and top-tier clergy had been walking away year after year.
The wierwille mystique has been unraveling for a long, long time.
Yeah, well............you "nailed it" when you exited the corps program on your interim year. Smart move.
I don't know what all you saw on your interim year to cause that change........but I was assigned to headquarters and 1979 was the year of major transition. Headquarters was transitioning from the BRC to the OSC........and the rock of ages grounds was being repaved along with the trenching for pipelines and electrical lines. All activity was full speed ahead for the annual two week gatherings of corps week and rock of ages.
All those corps letters that wierwille was writing could not overcome the hardships and burdens that the corps encountered each year.
THE REASON MORE WAVES OF CORPS KEPT EXITING..........more rapidly by 1980......... was hardships and burdens. The burden to attend corps week and roa each year was unsustainable. Anyone with a modicum of empathy for these increasing burdens could SEE THIS. As more corps married........more pregnancies, more babies, more bills, more responsibilities. Life, for them, was rapidly changing and husbands needed to focus on a career path. The corps could not take a 3-week absence from their jobs each year. Full Stop. It was that simple.
No longer could these corps acquire menial jobs or seasonal work. The corps was growing up.
Yet, wierwille in all his "patriarchal wisdom" (cough, cough).........refused to comprehend this. Wierwille was fossilized in his ideology. He expressed no empathy for those corps who'd been faithful for 6 years, 8 years, or 10 years. It was wierwille's way........or the highway.
wierwille was INCAPABLE of FEELING empathy. Psychopaths in general don't feel ANY empathy, and don't see people as seperate people. To them, it's like when you're a SMALL CHILD and the whole world is based on what it means to YOU. Psychopaths look at people and see RESOURCES or OBSTACLES, not people. When the cameras were on, vpw could FAKE empathy like any competent actor. When the cameras were off, we were all just tools to him. The death of a wayfer meant the loss of resources and related loss of gain.
Some people were aware that vpw's decision to run the LEAD program by having everyone BREAK THE LAW by hitchhiking (it wasn't tightly enforced, but it was still the law) led to some women getting raped. He didn't reduce risk in the beginning and make the kids safer. When it actually happened and people complained, vpw's response PRIVATELY to the corps was quite telling. He announced that LEAD wasn't going to change for ANY reason. He MENTIONED concerns about women getting raped. He followed that up by saying " You could be raped down in the green valley here." In other words, he didn't care that his program was causing women to get raped because he was forcing them to get into cars with strangers. He decided it, everyone was to OBEY.
Someone once tried to defend this RIDICULOUS position. "He wanted to teach us to believe and to rely on God." Was vpw really that STUPID that he was UNABLE, even calling in his top people, to come up with a method to teach people that was equally effective but did NOT get women raped?
vpw used hitchhiking because it was FREE. ALL of vpw's plans involved being INCREDIBLY CHEAP. When he filmed pfal, he "bought" the furniture, and immediately sent it back after for a refund, claiming it was defective. When he wanted a SALES PROGRAM, he PLAGIARIZED the Dale Carnegie program and never paid them for it. He bought used stuff at auctions all the time, for all things for regular usage. He had staff work on repairing OLD, USED thngs he bought cheaply and had them struggle with, rather than buy new anything that would see a lot of use (like the printers and so on.) All his programs were based on what he could do for little or no money- which was then DRESSED UP with PIOUS PLATITUDES about how that would please God for other reasons.
vpw TALKED about caring about wayfers all the time. He never showed he cared about them when it came time to do something to make them SAFE or SAFER.
Obviously, I can't speak to your motivations (and I know you didn't ask me to), but there hasn't been anyone that matched your insight and communication skill to more effectively spell out the problems as well as you.
Yes, others have told their stories. That's just as important. But your insight has been incredibly valuable and important. Had you not stayed in as long as you had, your story would not be as rich and robust as it is.
So, thank you (on behalf of many others beside just me).
Because of personal stress I'm currently enduring, I've been thinking a lot today about John 16:33.
33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace.In this world you will have trouble.But take heart! I have overcomethe world.”
In plain English, EVERYONE endures stress. Everyone has major challenges. Perhaps for much of our lives.
Some people were aware that vpw's decision to run the LEAD program by having everyone BREAK THE LAW by hitchhiking (it wasn't tightly enforced, but it was still the law) led to some women getting raped. He didn't reduce risk in the beginning and make the kids safer. When it actually happened and people complained, vpw's response PRIVATELY to the corps was quite telling. He announced that LEAD wasn't going to change for ANY reason. He MENTIONED concerns about women getting raped. He followed that up by saying " You could be raped down in the green valley here." In other words, he didn't care that his program was causing women to get raped because he was forcing them to get into cars with strangers. He decided it, everyone was to OBEY.
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skyrider
The announcement that you, Jean-Yves, will be twi's next president has reached GreaseSpot Café. Knowing you from those early days in Quebec City, and your WOW year in Toronto.......I am not surpr
DontWorryBeHappy
Thanks Skyrider! Another tremendous series of posts from a long-time GSC stalwart. Honest and forthright with volumes of FACTS to substantiate your every word. A reason your continued presence he
Twinky
And that would be God being kind to them... Chocky, your "news footage" well represents the wreck of Wayfers' lives after TWI and the "road to Damascus" that opened our eyes to the evil of TWI.
Twinky
I'm working through one of these Bible in a Year online scripture readings.
On the subject of leadership, lately this item was the study for the day. (Compare and contrast with pseudo leadership.)
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skyrider
Yes,.........thanks to Paw for all of his years of labor.
And, while we are passing out the thanks........I just want to thank again Paul All-en for his strength of will and integrity of heart to take THIS FIGHT HEAD-ON..... the point of the spear to strike at the underbelly of the beast, The Way International and its deceptive practices and hiding the sexual predators in its midst.
LOOK AT WHAT'S CHANGED..........in these past 21 years!!
LOTS MORE..........have found the exit doors!
................[Early quote from this thread] "When Pa-ul All-en found out that Craig Martindale was using his "spiritual authority" to have sex with Paul's wife......he demanded a face-to-face confrontation at Craig's office in the Corps Chalet and that Rosalie, then vice-prez, and John Reynolds, then sec-treasurer, be there. This took place late in the evening.....like 10:30 or 11pm. Reynolds tried to berate Paul and talk him out of it......but Paul was livid.
So.....the face-to-face meeting happened. Martindale was seated at his desk, Reynolds and Rivenbark were there.....and John Linder, security patrol man, stool alongside the wall brandishing his glock 9mm handgun. Paul All-en demanded martindale's RESIGNATION.......Feb 1999. Martindale balked and tried to bribe Paul with a job promotion if they could resolve this adultery [sex predation] quietly. NO WAY, NO HOW. Paul was having none of it.......Reynolds and Rivenbark sided with Craig and wanted to sweep in under the carpet. As things escalated.......Craig ordered Linder to give Paul (and his wife, Fern) the bum's rush: to escort Paul to his dorm room in founder's hall, pack his things and get him and ferne off grounds within hours [in the cover of darkness]. By noon meal next day, martindale fabricated the story and told staffers that the allens were "possessed" etc. etc. [same drill used time and time again.]
Within three weeks......Paul, a computer website guru, had Waydale up and running. The sole mission of the website, the forerunner of GSC was two-fold: To seek and destroy 1) The Way International and 2) Craig Martindale....... hence Waydale.
Reynolds and Rivenbark were the sleaze that continued to cover for martindale.....until the lawyers got involved and strongly recommended that martindale be ousted for legal/insurance liabilities. So, the "man-in-tights-from-spirits-in-the-athlete" fame who had been salted and oiled by dikter wierwille himself slithered to Toledo, Ohio to a twi-owned house......trying to take him off-grid from one and all. No forwarding address. No phone listing. No one need ask questions....its NONE of your business [to hell it isn't !!]. See, that's the essence of all those dirty, little secrets at twi: You, little peon, have NO RIGHT TO QUESTION THEM. They can lie to you face, intimidate you into submission.......but when they utterly screw up, Reynolds and Rivenbark use every weapon in their arsenal to keep THEIR secrets.
And......Reynolds and Rivenbark have been JYDL's mentors........."
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WordWolf
I'm sure that there's people out there who like to pretend I spend all my free time just slandering people. As a reminder they're wrong, I'd like to point out that I think MOST OF US had the best intentions and a lot of us really wanted to serve God and be our best for God. For MOST OF US, I don't fault our goals, our intentions, our sincerity.
As for wierwille, that was another story.
He himself lied about what "sincerity" was. We agree it's " no guarantee of truth", since someone can sincerely believe the Earth is flat. But someone who is "sincere" is someone who genuinely says what they think and believe, period. vpw said that "the salesman who tries to sell you the toothbrush that has only 1 bristle in it, he's gotta be real sincere!" Looking back, it says a lot that he made that claim. He said that the salesman who tried to INTENTIONALLY DECEIVE YOU, but who puts forth an IMAGE of sincerity, a FALSE FRONT of sincerity, that person IS " sincere." So, vpw really believed " sincerity" was something that could be COMPLETELY FAKED. THIS is the man whom we trusted as having done as he claimed, dedicating his life to God and the Bible and so on. Because we believed that, we gave him a free pass on scrutiny, and a lot of stuff flew under our radars (like his definition of "sincerity." )
Someone commented on my calling vpw a " plagiarizing rapist." That term offends some people. They think you can't call someone that. The truth is- you can call someone that IF IT IS TRUE. A leader is supposed to be found BLAMELESS. If I made the claims and they were without grounds, then he would be found BLAMELESS.
Was vpw a rapist? A NUMBER of women have come forth. Some said he molested them, some said he raped them, some said he drugged THEN molested or raped them. According to the Bible, if 3 or more witnesses claim something, we are to accept it. We had MANY women who said vpw raped them. We had people break down the entire SYSTEM vpw set up. First, he had people write " from birth to the corps" papers, if they wanted to enter the way corps. He used those papers to help screen his victims. People with a past having been a victim of something can be victimized by it again, later, more easily than others. We had accounts of women who said he had their paper IN HIS HAND when he called them in to try and rape them. vpw had A FEW places where he had privacy and a sort of bed- his office, his mobile office, etc. vpw had a network of conspirators who kept an eye out. One could be counted on to bring the women to him and make it look like an innocent calling. Others were to watch her after vpw raped her, and " counsel" her to not consider it rape, not to go to the police. If she seemed likely to go to the police, others gave her the bum's rush off grounds, sending her home by slow Greyhound bus. Why that way? Partly because it was cheap, partly because it gave them time to make phone calls and ruin her reputation before she got home- so nobody would believe her when she said vpw raped her.
We had accounts of specific things he said to different women- variations on the same line of patter, since he used that as part of his strategy. We have accounts of what drinks he plied them with, and other details that make me sick. In short, we had PREMEDITATION. He put a LOT of work into his plan. He planned out who to attack, where to attack them, how to attack them, and what to do afterwards to make sure he didn't go to jail. Ever wonder why he wanted an armed bodyguard as he walked the grounds? He never said why he might need one, but I think we all have the most likely possibility in mind....
So, he was a rapist. Furthermore, he was a plagiarist. He also put in a lot of work into getting ahold of the work of quality Christians, concealing those works, then presenting their work as his own. The contents of the pfal class were all ripped off of Leonard, Stiles, and Bullinger (with a little from a few others.) He claimed he worked alone with God, and INSINUATED that everything he taught was from God Almighty to his ears. That included crackpot theories he got from the phone hotline of the John Birch Society. Oh, yes, ONCE he claimed what he taught wasn't original. Was in in the introduction of one book with his name as the author? NO. In the promotional book "The Way-Living in Love", buried over 100 pages in, was an offhand comment. "Nothing I teach is original. Putting it together, that was the original part." No such claim in the Orange Book. No such claim in the White Book. In fact, the White Book he supposedly wrote all by himself in a hotel room, living off grapes. If you remove all of Stiles work and Bullinger's work from the book, then remove Leonard's, you probably will just have the introduction. All the CONTENT was from those men- which is NOT stated anywhere in that book.
vpw had 2 types of books with his name as the author. The later, more polished books were written by the research department. He added the introduction and his name as the author. I'm given to understand this is legal- but I personally think it's unethical. He should at least have listed himself as EDITOR, not AUTHOR. The others are the older twi books, and those are compilations of the works of other writers, sometimes with rephrasings, sometimes still with their own phrasings retained. Side by side comparisons of their books have been shown. Ever notice his vocabulary and speaking style sometimes were not reflected in the books? That's because they weren't his books. Ever hear him call someone a " faith-blaster?" That was another writer's term, and vpw just retyped it. By vpw's terms, it at least would have been a " believing-blaster", except he never used "blaster" when speaking.
In the early editions of the White Book, he mentioned finding teacher who could make the Holy Spirit field fit. A few editions later, he skips mentioning the man, not even giving Leonard his due credit anonymously. vpw knew very well what he was doing, and tried to cover his tracks somewhat.
So, in short, vpw was a plagiarizing rapist. He taught some good Bible because he was parroting the work of those who were quality Christians. I'm thankful to have heard it, but I'm not giving vpw a pass on plagiarizing or raping- or anything else he did- because of it.
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Twinky
Above from the original post.
We're now four years on. What's happened? What changes at TWI? Is anything substantively different?
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skyrider
What's happened since JYDL was installed in January 2017? What changes at TWI?
Well...........
.
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Twinky
That's a big NO, then. It's just that the rabbit hole got a bit deeper. Maybe it's even harder for those still there to find their way out.
Rosalie's going to pop her clogs one day - what, is she in her 80s now? Maybe it'll all fall apart then. Unless Rupp or Greene make a power-grab. Not sure Donna would.
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T-Bone
is that the same as "being held in abeyance"?
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skyrider
As you would know, T-Bone ....... since you are a big fan of the cinema world ........ District 13 is the center of the new rebellion.
Those who have been held captive by cult indoctrination and their overlords..........NEED to regain their freedom from cult-twi AND its splinters.
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skyrider
Lots of rabbit holes around...........there are splinter holes everywhere.
The latest teaching from R&R.......Sow to Grow is another low-level, disjointed mixture of cherry-picked scriptures, conjectures, inferences and story-telling that is pawned off as a "Revival and Restoration" Bible teaching. Let me just give you a bullet-point depiction of Rev. Tom Knu-pp's teaching:
Having grown up on a farm......with wheat, corn, milo and alfalfa, I'm sure that I would have taught this subject FAR DIFFERENTLY.
What is one of the first rules of teaching?.........KNOW YOUR SUBJECT.
While grass might be technically considered a "crop"........NOBODY in the farming industry would address it that way. It is laughable to think of farming in terms of someone's front lawn!. Really?
Where is the topographical consideration of soil fertility, moisture content, growing season, crop selection, crop rotation, tilling, weeding fertilizer options, management, financial leveraging, harvesting, market availability, etc. etc......and the viability of doing this decade after decade reaping a profit?
PULLEEASE.........
Now, I do NOT expect a full dissertation on farm management when someone wants to teach on "Sow to Grow".......but to launch into this premise that "grass is the most grown crop in America." Uh, no. It would have, at least, been FAR BETTER, if he had made sowing/weeding/harvesting analogous to growing a vegetable garden. But this teaching? Wrong premise. Too disjointed. All over the place. Ugh. I find this disjointed presentation a huge disservice to those who want to learn biblical truths. If that is representative of "Revival and Restoration" CLERGY teachings, then stick a fork in it. They are done!
.
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T-Bone
Ok, yeah I got you now...it’s been awhile since I read and saw The Hunger Games trilogy. Like The Matrix, Hunger Games has similar themes of what is fake/real, the motivation to survive (evident in all the main characters), rebellion & revolution.
TWI and splinters survive by the way they ensnare folks in the virtual world of wierwille’s delusion; unbeknownst to followers they have become captivated by core beliefs that are held like almost absolute truths - and which often function as rules and regulations to control the way things are done and even the way people behave - thus the threat of rebellion is reduced or nonexistent.
For example in the foundational class followers are taught the road down to failing God starts with questioning “The Word” (wierwille's manipulative teaching about Genesis 3 ).As one gets more involved with the group, that expands to questioning leadership is the road down to failure - failing God and the ministry.
My hope and prayer for folks still involved with these religious fakers is that in reading about the other side of the story here on Grease Spot (that is, the real story ) is that perhaps the pilot light on critical thinking gets rekindled; that is how you can survive a cult!!! (though not always guaranteed, things like rebellion and revolution are sometimes byproducts of critical thinking) ... Speaking of critical thinking, Jesus Christ often challenged the status quo not only of the religious hypocrites but even of his own followers; check out what Jesus said to his followers criticizing others outside their group who were doing work in Jesus’ name in Luke 9: 49, 50 It must be a cult trademark of TWI and splinters to be so critical of anyone not associated with their group.
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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Twinky
TWI has nothing special there. It's just a "cult trademark" generally to be critical of those not associated with their group - especially if that's some sort of religious group.
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WordWolf
A cult survives by hardening the line between "us" and "them", and making "them" so repugnant that we're glad we're not "them." That way, even when "us" are badly oppressed, we're still glad that at least we're not "them". For cults, only "us" qualify for salvation. In twi, for decades now, to leave twi is to leave " the household of God" and forfeit rewards, salvation, or both. People who stay in twi are so lulled to sleep that they don't question how wrong that is.
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skyrider
Thanks WW.........year after year, cult leaders constrict their messaging in attempts to target, and amass, zealous followers. Clearly, wierwille went thru a growing curve when he left his denominational church pastoring in December 1957. For 10 years, he traveled from city to city to teach "his" classes to church-goers..........struggling to gain momentum and/or notoriety. After filming the skinny-tie class (pfal) in 1967.......twi's summer camps helped harden the lines between "us" and "them."
To add to your post......I would say that:
A cult survives by..........
How did wierwille harden the line between "them" and "him?" Well, when he plagiarized from other men......he realized later on that he needed to ERASE THE EVIDENCE of this plagiarism and DISTANCE himself from them. In his folly, wierwille admitted another man had schooled him in all this information.... [noted in the 2nd Edition preface section of Receiving the holy spirit Today]. Who was this man? J.E. Stiles
"The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all I had been taught and start anew
with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook. It took me seven years to find a man of God
schooled in the Holy Spirit, a man who knew the Scripture on the Holy Spirit, and could fit it together
so that I did not have to omit, deny or change any one passage. He made the Scripture fit
like a hand fits into a glove, and when you can do that, you can be assured of having truth."
~~~~~~~
Years later......wierwille covered his tracks of plagiarism.
Also, in order to herald "the man of God" title.......wierwille could NOT have equals, let alone superiors.
J.E. Stiles, the man who schooled wierwille..........had to be erased from being recognized in the 7th Edition preface:
"The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all that I had heard
and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as
my textbook. I did not want to omit, deny, or change any passage for, the Word of God
being the will of God, the Scripture must fit like a hand in a glove."
.
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skyrider
Yeah, T-Bone......I believe that GSC has lit that pilot light of critical thinking which, in turn, ignites the "fireplace" of one's thought life and soul.
How many? I have no idea......but it must be quite significant, because new posters often cite that they had been lurking for years! YEARS. Like someone shuffling around in a cold house, year after year......because s/he doesn't focus on the problem or is unconcerned with altering the situation.
Challenge ALL of it.....
Cults keep you sleepwalking thru life........in your drab bathrobe all day long.
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T-Bone
That gives me an idea for a bumper sticker:
sleepwalkers are living the dream
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Rocky
clever!
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waysider
Hey, kids! Be the first on your block to slap this gnarly declaration of independence on the back of your vintage Honda.
Act now and we'll also throw in an 8 track copy of THIS rad tune.
(Call now; operators are standing by.)
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annio
Thanks MUCH Twinky, and all others who are continuing to post their VERY valuable insights and documentation, and share their humorous hitting-the-mark remarks!!!
So, gotta repost GrouchoMarxJr's great line from 10/12009, if I may- "Wierwille was to Christianity what Jeffrey Dahmer was to gourmet dining."
. 'Course, I doubt that it will help anyone still embedded in the No man's/woman's land of way cult world to come out, but it sure as heck blesses me to re-share it, and maybe someone else is ready to process more as I have been...
Best to ALL of you still here!!!
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skyrider
Thanks annio.........appreciate it and glad you're here.
I, too, always liked GrouchoMarxJr's postings. He never minced words. They were direct and to the point. Like so many others who've passed thru these GSC doors......these past posters helped to blaze a trail for freedom lovers.
So often, in the past.......wierwille apologists would come to this site and try to laud vpw's teachings while, at the same time, denigrate our postings/experiences. Seemingly, everything was "so great" during Dr. Wierwille's presidency......and then, it ALL went down hill when martindale took over. Nowadays, it looks like those wierwille-defenders have fallen away........simply because Greasespot Café has so thoroughly and utterly exposed wierwille's and twi's manipulation and deception.
One of my favorite threads is the following......
Letters VPW wrote to the way corps .......... as early as 1976, wierwille was LAMENTING that corps were leaving him and twi.
In these 30 or more letters, wierwille scoffs at corps who are not "committed to the cause." Throughout there is no meaningful mention of God's nature, inner-working via holy spirit, fruit in one's life, personal development--(education, marriage, family, goals, careers), living for God....etc.
Letter after letter.........just wierwille lamenting that corps and clergy are LEAVING.
There is no way that this narcissist could conceive that he was off-course. Nope. He blames others for "not getting it" and leaving. This compilation of letters simply verifies what so many have been posting all these years....i.e. there has been a continual exiting of corps since, at least, 1976/1977.
It did NOT take Geer's poop paper to awaken hundreds of corps. Some left during corps training. Some left on their interim year. Some immediately left after graduation, never to return.
Some corps left to pursue careers, family choices, higher education or military service. Some limb and region coordinators left after years of faithful service. In 1978, my limb coordinator in Georgia, 4th corps........left in July prior to the rock of ages. He and his wife wanted to move in another direction with their lives. There were corps men and women exiting every year. That's why wierwille kept writing those "corps letters".......it was one of his strategic methods to guilt corps into not abandoning him. Even his yes-men, bodyguards, valets, pilots and top-tier clergy had been walking away year after year.
The wierwille mystique has been unraveling for a long, long time.
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Rocky
Yes, yes, and YES! Key words, abandoning him.
As always, Brother Sky, you nailed it... not unlike nailing 95 theses to a church door.
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skyrider
Yeah, well............you "nailed it" when you exited the corps program on your interim year. Smart move.
I don't know what all you saw on your interim year to cause that change........but I was assigned to headquarters and 1979 was the year of major transition. Headquarters was transitioning from the BRC to the OSC........and the rock of ages grounds was being repaved along with the trenching for pipelines and electrical lines. All activity was full speed ahead for the annual two week gatherings of corps week and rock of ages.
All those corps letters that wierwille was writing could not overcome the hardships and burdens that the corps encountered each year.
THE REASON MORE WAVES OF CORPS KEPT EXITING..........more rapidly by 1980......... was hardships and burdens. The burden to attend corps week and roa each year was unsustainable. Anyone with a modicum of empathy for these increasing burdens could SEE THIS. As more corps married........more pregnancies, more babies, more bills, more responsibilities. Life, for them, was rapidly changing and husbands needed to focus on a career path. The corps could not take a 3-week absence from their jobs each year. Full Stop. It was that simple.
No longer could these corps acquire menial jobs or seasonal work. The corps was growing up.
Yet, wierwille in all his "patriarchal wisdom" (cough, cough).........refused to comprehend this. Wierwille was fossilized in his ideology. He expressed no empathy for those corps who'd been faithful for 6 years, 8 years, or 10 years. It was wierwille's way........or the highway.
Read it here............Hardship and Burdens
Why did I stay so long? Ugh.
.
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WordWolf
wierwille was INCAPABLE of FEELING empathy. Psychopaths in general don't feel ANY empathy, and don't see people as seperate people. To them, it's like when you're a SMALL CHILD and the whole world is based on what it means to YOU. Psychopaths look at people and see RESOURCES or OBSTACLES, not people. When the cameras were on, vpw could FAKE empathy like any competent actor. When the cameras were off, we were all just tools to him. The death of a wayfer meant the loss of resources and related loss of gain.
Some people were aware that vpw's decision to run the LEAD program by having everyone BREAK THE LAW by hitchhiking (it wasn't tightly enforced, but it was still the law) led to some women getting raped. He didn't reduce risk in the beginning and make the kids safer. When it actually happened and people complained, vpw's response PRIVATELY to the corps was quite telling. He announced that LEAD wasn't going to change for ANY reason. He MENTIONED concerns about women getting raped. He followed that up by saying " You could be raped down in the green valley here." In other words, he didn't care that his program was causing women to get raped because he was forcing them to get into cars with strangers. He decided it, everyone was to OBEY.
Someone once tried to defend this RIDICULOUS position. "He wanted to teach us to believe and to rely on God." Was vpw really that STUPID that he was UNABLE, even calling in his top people, to come up with a method to teach people that was equally effective but did NOT get women raped?
vpw used hitchhiking because it was FREE. ALL of vpw's plans involved being INCREDIBLY CHEAP. When he filmed pfal, he "bought" the furniture, and immediately sent it back after for a refund, claiming it was defective. When he wanted a SALES PROGRAM, he PLAGIARIZED the Dale Carnegie program and never paid them for it. He bought used stuff at auctions all the time, for all things for regular usage. He had staff work on repairing OLD, USED thngs he bought cheaply and had them struggle with, rather than buy new anything that would see a lot of use (like the printers and so on.) All his programs were based on what he could do for little or no money- which was then DRESSED UP with PIOUS PLATITUDES about how that would please God for other reasons.
vpw TALKED about caring about wayfers all the time. He never showed he cared about them when it came time to do something to make them SAFE or SAFER.
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Rocky
Obviously, I can't speak to your motivations (and I know you didn't ask me to), but there hasn't been anyone that matched your insight and communication skill to more effectively spell out the problems as well as you.
Yes, others have told their stories. That's just as important. But your insight has been incredibly valuable and important. Had you not stayed in as long as you had, your story would not be as rich and robust as it is.
So, thank you (on behalf of many others beside just me).
Because of personal stress I'm currently enduring, I've been thinking a lot today about John 16:33.
33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
In plain English, EVERYONE endures stress. Everyone has major challenges. Perhaps for much of our lives.
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Rocky
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