Open Letter to Jean-Yves De Lisle

[skyrider]

The announcement that you, Jean-Yves, will be twi's next president has reached GreaseSpot Café.

Knowing you from those early days in Quebec City, and your WOW year in Toronto.......I am not surprised that you rose up thru the ranks of leadership.  Clearly, in your former years, you had discipline, drive and heart-felt compassion for others.  When you were assigned to one of Toronto's WOW teams, I personally made sure that Rene and Sonia [ if I remember her name correctly] were in your WOW-family.....Rene needed extra attention being wheel-chair bound, and Sonia was so innocent, lovely and beautiful that I knew you'd be the right person to help them.  And, after your in-residence year......I was honored to perform your and Michele's wedding in 1988.

As twi continued to endure Chris Geer's call to "return back to the wierwille-indoctrination doctrine" with his arrogance assertions......twi went thru turbulent times, for sure.  Martindale, Don and Howard were thrown back on their heels and were reeling in a defensive posture for a number of years.  During this time, you and Michele were staffers at headquarters and saw much of the destruction of people's lives.  Yes, for 28 years......you have been intricately ensconced at the upper-tier levels of twi-hierarchy and groomed by "leadership" at hq and therefore, removed from understanding the emotional, physical and spiritual abuse that has been thrust upon the followers.

I am saddened, Jean-Yves, to see that you never connected the dots of this abuse and evil.  The scriptures give us wholesale examples of how the Pharisees burdened the people with guilt, shame, and fear to maintain their positions of power.  You see, Jean-Yves.......there are reasons why some 480 clergy and 3,000 corps grads no longer follow the doctrine or tenets of wierwillism.  The mog-doctrine was a fraud perpetrated by wierwille to enrich his power base and control over the youth.  Even back then, the older folk were abandoning him left and right......as even wierwille had noted that time and time again.  And, when wierwille schemed to offer the sunset corps an "opportunity" to build a cabin at their expense at Camp Gunnison [that twi would later inherit upon that person's death]......NOT ONE ELDERLY CORPS PERSON bought into it.  Notice how the elder corps were skeptical and suspicious of wierwille's shenanigans.....even though they were "corps trained?"

Clearly, the days of Rosalie's tenure as president has been little more than manage the perceptions......after all, twi really doesn't have a research department any more, do they?  And, the teachings are bland regurgitations that were scoffed at even by wierwille's pfal class renderings of religious veneer.  Why would a "spirit-filled believer with all power" NEED to read his/her sermon?  And then, is there really any full-sharing fellowship going on......or are people just going thru the motions?  I think, if you were really honest......you know the answer.  So....its not really a "Research, Teaching and Fellowship Ministry" is it?

Perhaps, you will slip into the big chair and be able to make BIG CHANGES during your tenure......to elevate Jesus Christ in his rightful and honored place as lord, savior, and mediator between God and man.  Perhaps......you will turn the ship 180 degrees and get back to true Christian values where believers are guided by holy spirit within.  Perhaps.....you will be able to clean the ranks of arrogant and abusive leaders that have sat in their seats of power at headquarters for 30+ years.  But if you are going to make any difference whatsoever......you will have to keep Rosalie and Donna from whispering in your ear on a weekly basis.

All the best to you, Jean-Yves.  Just know that "the power of that office" is not of any significance in the sight of God......UNLESS you use it for good, to unburden and heal the brokenhearted and those [still] in captivity.  [Luke 4:18]

 

.

 

Edited November 3, 2016 by skyrider

[Bolshevik]

4 minutes ago, skyrider said:

. . . 

All the best to you, Jean-Yves.  Just know that "the power of that office" is not of any significance in the sight of God......UNLESS you use it for good, to unburden and heal the brokenhearted and those [still] in captivity.  [Luke 4:18]

 

.

 

Is Jean-Yves that bad?  

This is a nostalgia ministry.  The followers want their nostalgia.  Isn't taking the nostalgia away a source of suffering for them?  A guy like Jean-Yves is could just be giving them their comfort for their remaining days.

VPW caused followers to leave by dying.

LCM caused followers to leave by yelling.

Rosie caused followers to leave by stone-walling.

What is the worst Jean-Yves going could do?  Cause people to leave by out-living them?

[chockfull]

not holding my breath that a leopard after 28 years can change its spots.

[shortfuse]

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

Is Jean-Yves that bad?  

This is a nostalgia ministry.  The followers want their nostalgia.  Isn't taking the nostalgia away a source of suffering for them?  A guy like Jean-Yves is could just be giving them their comfort for their remaining days.

VPW caused followers to leave by dying.

LCM caused followers to leave by yelling.

Rosie caused followers to leave by stone-walling.

What is the worst Jean-Yves going could do?  Cause people to leave by out-living them?

I get what you are saying, but calling it a nostalgia ministry diminishes the on going harm to those still involved. Is he that bad?  Well,if he changes nothing, that would be bad.  I don't think he would have received the appointment if he gave any inclination he intended to change anything.

[shortfuse]

2 hours ago, skyrider said:

All the best to you, Jean-Yves.  Just know that "the power of that office" is not of any significance in the sight of God......UNLESS you use it for good, to unburden and heal the brokenhearted and those [still] in captivity.  [Luke 4:18]

THIS!

Do it, Jean-Yves.  

[T-Bone]

Thanks for sharing your open letter, Skyrider

I sincerely hope for the best in Jean-Yves’ reading it

perhaps I’ve mellowed some since I left - - but lately I find myself thinking it’s never too late for someone to change their mind.

[outandabout]

The next cause might be boring them into leaving.

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, shortfuse said:

I get what you are saying, but calling it a nostalgia ministry diminishes the on going harm to those still involved. Is he that bad?  Well,if he changes nothing, that would be bad.  I don't think he would have received the appointment if he gave any inclination he intended to change anything.

Jean-Yves is not LCM or VPW.  Is he going to do anything like THAT?

But you know, 

what harm IS being done to those still involved?  Wayfers are wayfers, leadership or not.

 

 

[shortfuse]

I don't think he will be a serial sexual predator or publicly berate and humiliate people like VPW and LCM did.

But I don't think continued involvement in the Way is harmless to anyone. I guess one thing I'm thinking of is financially.  I have family who continue to rent at all costs, give more than tithes to twi and save almost nothing for retirement,  That said, it may just be too late for them.  Maybe a changed way wouldn't matter for them anyway.
 

Edited November 3, 2016 by shortfuse

[skyrider]

29 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Jean-Yves is not LCM or VPW.  Is he going to do anything like THAT?

But you know, 

what harm IS being done to those still involved?  Wayfers are wayfers, leadership or not.

 

What harm IS being done to those still involved?

Well......1) TWI is anti-family.  It splits and divides families----- example in recent thread, Getting daughter/son out of the way

2) TWI is manipulative, coercive and exploitive------later in life, lots of people regret the deceptive ploy.  Loss of opportunities, stolen lives.

3) TWI is bondage, not freedom of true choice.  Why do you think that wierwille selectively cherry-picked certain scriptures?

4) TWI does not allow open discussion or open questioning.  You always know who rules over you, by who you are NOT allowed to question.

5) TWI incorporates modern-day phariseeism.......it oppresses the vulnerable and weak.  Read the 4 gospels.

6) TWI operates under the guise of a non-profit organization.....yet, does NOT do charitable work in any sense of the word.

7) This is NOT about Jean-Yves, per se..........its about a shadowy corporation that hides its intent and masks its true nature.

[Bolshevik]

26 minutes ago, skyrider said:

What harm IS being done to those still involved?

Well......1) TWI is anti-family.  It splits and divides families----- example in recent thread, Getting daughter/son out of the way

. . .

I'm well aware of this point especially, Mr. Skyrider.  I have family currently in TWI.  I also know Christians who witnessed those days.

However, most of the damage was already done back the the 70s and 80s.   Then was the time to jump and shout warnings.

And I participated in the thread you've mentioned.  Seemed a temporary situation.  Not a permanent one as we've seen elsewhere.

Which brings me back to the idea that Jean-Yves will be managing a nostalgia group, and the idea of making older wayfers comfortable in their wayferdom as a good thing.

 

 

 

 

[skyrider]

35 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Which brings me back to the idea that Jean-Yves will be managing a nostalgia group, and the idea of making older wayfers comfortable in their wayferdom as a good thing.

Yeah.....managing a nostalgia group for older wayfers to feel like they were a part of something meaningful.  I see your point.

I guess, in some ways......I made the same point 3 years ago:  The Victor Paul Wierwille Memorial Museum

 

[TLC]

1 hour ago, skyrider said:

What harm IS being done to those still involved?

Well......1) TWI is anti-family.  It splits and divides families----- example in recent thread, Getting daughter/son out of the way

2) TWI is manipulative, coercive and exploitive------later in life, lots of people regret the deceptive ploy.  Loss of opportunities, stolen lives.

3) TWI is bondage, not freedom of true choice.  Why do you think that wierwille selectively cherry-picked certain scriptures?

4) TWI does not allow open discussion or open questioning.  You always know who rules over you, by who you are NOT allowed to question.

5) TWI incorporates modern-day phariseeism.......it oppresses the vulnerable and weak.  Read the 4 gospels.

6) TWI operates under the guise of a non-profit organization.....yet, does NOT do charitable work in any sense of the word.

7) This is NOT about Jean-Yves, per se..........its about a shadowy corporation that hides its intent and masks its true nature.

mmm... I'm thinking you might have missed (perhaps the most important) one.  (Which, oddly enough, points back to a few things in the PFAL class.)

8) TWI has the answers.  And once you have that, there's no reason to hear the rest of the question. 

 

(Okay, so I paraphrased the thought a bit.  But maybe you catch my drift...)

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Thanks Skyrider!

Another tremendous series of posts from a long-time GSC stalwart. Honest and forthright with volumes of FACTS to substantiate your every word. A reason your continued presence here, IMO, is critical to the continuing mission of the Spot!

Now, Monsieur de Liar, here's my open letter to you and your TWIts big apple style. A bit less comfortable for you perhaps, but, IMO, the last thing ANY "president" of TWIt deserves IS comfortable ANYTHING!

I left the TWIt gulag in December, 1986 after 16 years in the cesspool. I "graduated" from the Way corpse in August, 1976. I was in that thing Johnny the drunk Townsend called the Yak Twig after Chairman Geer the bus driver destroyed TWIt with his putsch paper about some legendary, supposedly benevolent "patriarch"  who was put one step above Saul of Tarsus as this man-o-gawd (MOG) for this our day and time and hour and minute and nanosecond.

I bought that purulent horse manure too, UNTIL I returned to your little mud hole in new Knoxville. I was on staff there from 1979-1986, when I left. That's where the truth and FACTS regarding dictor paul wierwille and his cult of perverted personality disorders began staring me in the face. Slowly but relentlessly those FACTS were oozing from the belly of that beast daily. The cognitive dissonance and abject immorality of what dictor and his boyz in da hoods were doing was horrifying. Truly and wildly against everything our Lord Christ stands for today. Psychopatholigical, alcohol-driven madness which literally killed innocents and drove a significant number of others to suicide! ALL in the name of "God's rightly divided Word" lived "in the renewed mind in manifestation" with complete and total allegiance to the MOG, "The Teacher", wayfers' "Father in the Word".

Unlike you de Liar, I did not bury my head or heart in that TWIt toilet. It did not take me 28 years of blatant ass-kissing and personal compromise to realize that something IS very rotten in TWItville, Ohio! So wrong that, no authentic Christian could ever in good conscience before the Lord stay there and continue to poison the waters of life for the genuine Christians who wanted just to love God and serve the bread of life to those in need.

And yet, here you are in 2016 agreeing to preside over that fraud of a minus-tray as if nothing bad enough ever happened that you must repent of before God and His Church, and ask for forgiveness from BOTH! That should be your number one task. But, I'm sure YOU don't "see the need" to do that, because you'd never agree to be  pwesident if you even hinted at doing this right thing.

This after 28 years at the vortex of sin and spiritual illness that your precious headquarters continues to live and promote. That means you were there during dem fawg years. That means you signed da forehead's loyalty oath. That means you went through and SUPPORTED, the homo purges, the ending of the ROA and the WOW program due to "homo infiltration". The screaming, spit-filled propaganda and hate speech against all us possessed cop-outs, non-stop every day for years. The public humiliation and destruction of ANY & ALL opposition or perceived "rebellion"  against his MOGship. The incredible fascist, neo-Nazi malignant  paranoid narcissism which eventually threw out any bible and replaced it with "genuine spiritual suspicion" as the main rule of "faith and practice". The "no debt" lunacy. The fun enforcement of "mark and avoid". Taking the "prevailing word" and locking it up behind the newly constructed walls of Zion that you morons consented to. The remake of dictor's PFAL into an even more incoherently insane WAP class. The pathetic Way Disciples program to replace WOWs. The overt and persistent pathological serial rape and sexual assault that Da Forehead's perverted "father in the word" taught the boy to do so well, and with rabid enthusiasm. And, your pal Ros-a-lie also participated in enthusiastically as well with dictor paul himself, and Howard and Don, and literally scores of other MOGs including members of my corpse which she was in-rez with when she began in the Family Corpse II in August, 1975! Male and female Monsieur de Liar! Ask Ms. Lombardi-Martindale about that! Denial. Obfuscation. Outright pathological lying. Blameshifting and finger pointing is what you've been taught to accept and demand. That's what you accept with your revisionist history of Da Forehead's two "settled" serial rape and sexual assault charges, along with Rosie's whitewashed version of her own admissions to the criminal sexual behavior of the Da forehead and others that are in the sealed settlement documents. If you know all this after 28 years and you're still there, my de Liar moniker fits you quite well Monsieur! And, you'll wear it with PRIDE I'm sure.

Unlike the far more kind Skyrider, I'm not wasting one nanosecond of my Christian prayer life on you, or any of the rest of you hypocritical, whited sepulchers. You are anti(against)-Christ in words and works. You are vain babblers, ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth. You are an insult to the Lord who bought you. You are a false teacher. You and your rosie suffer from the root of all evil.....the love of money. You preach for filthy lucre's sake. You plagiarize the plagiarizers. You bow  your knee to Baal. You are anathema to the Lord Jesus Christ and His Heavenly Father. You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. Your "ministry" is a sham and a fraud. You serve the god of this world. REPENT! Ask God for forgiveness and apologize to those whom you have despitefully used. You have raped and plundered The Good Shepherd's precious flock. Their blood is on your hands. You cannot fool God! You cannot hide from the Righteous Judge either. You return to your own vomit, day after day, year after year. The blood of the righteous which you have shed screams through the ground against you. My only prayer for you is, "May the Lord have mercy upon your souls."

Have a nice inauguration and installation asshole!

[Twinky]

Hey, DWBH, you know I don't like your rants - but you're entirely on the money with this one!  He's seen it all, heard it all, must know...

Maybe he harbours some desire to reform TWI from within... anyone with sense (like you) would have got out years ago.

i used to like him; worked with Michele and liked her a lot... but that was a looooonnnnngggggg time ago.  I've (dare I say it?) <<outgrown>> TWI and its pettiness and exclusionism and its tinpot dictators.  But some have <<ingrown>> and who knows how they have changed.  Not for the better, I sadly suspect.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

TY Twinx!     

[chockfull]

Beyond all that, in the years I have observed him, JY has become more and more aloof, and displayed more and more of the same Pharisaiac characteristics of rfr based leadership.  non-approachable, elite.  superiority tone of condescension in communication.   he has participated in and carried so many of the back room decisions resulting in the devastation of lives that he has the same blood on his hands rfr does.  i mean just one example - imo the whole cffm ministry exists because of @$$holish Machiavellian behavior at the top of TWI that has basically been modeled through EVERY presidency in TWI.  

You have to realize the whole culture of TWI leadership - Board of Directors -  is not like a university or normal corporation Board of Directors - where you have a number of accomplished well-educated people collaborating together to further the best interests of a university of company.  It is a group of people whose education basically has been within the organization - low levels of education and high levels of control.  A group of Machiavellian elitist Pharisees.  It is a dictatorship.  rfr with her little sidekick Donna ran everything and the 2 underling guys basically rubber-stamped it all.  Why?  Because they saw non-consenting predecessors shipped to Siberia.   It is a succession of Pharisees.  And the only thing you can be guaranteed about Pharisees is that the next one will be 3-fold the child of hell as the previous.  Why do you think the non-winning candidate is posting up his uniquely crafted resume on the internet?  Because he has a deep sense of security about his necessity in the next Pharisee administration?  No, more like the mob type mentality he's afraid of getting whacked.  good fellas.  sent to the unemployment lines by his peer.  and who is going to hire him?  become the next worldwide outreach coordinator for the jallyroll organization?  film jesus my diameter part 2?  

Steer clear of them there Pharisees.
We aren't living in the past, we're living in the prudent.

Successions of Pharisees isn't going to cleanse the Way.  That story would look more like the Hunger Games if it happened in a genuine sense.

 

 

[skyrider]

3 hours ago, chockfull said:

Beyond all that, in the years I have observed him, JY has become more and more aloof, and displayed more and more of the same Pharisaiac characteristics of rfr based leadership.  non-approachable, elite.  superiority tone of condescension in communication.   he has participated in and carried so many of the back room decisions resulting in the devastation of lives that he has the same blood on his hands rfr does.

<snip>

Jean-Yves found his "safe zone" in International Outreach......where he was nurtured into the cult-elite status.  From 1988-1992, the trustees were still reeling from dem "fog years" as martindale continued to clear out the dead wood of corps grads who were less-than-enthusiastic to follow his lead, but hesitant to call it quits.  Even though martindale desperately tried to assert his authority, there was a general malaise that permeated large swaths of followers.

Then, the purges.......1) the loyalty purge, 2) homo-purge, 3) non-productive purge, 4) those-in-debt purge, 5) those who didn't believe "the word was over the world" purge, 6) full-time corps purge, 7) the bridge to the promised land purge, 8) martindale was going to teach new fnd/int/adv class series to replace wierwille's --- if you didn't get on board with this, then GET OUT [purge].   During these years, Jean-Yves came to the same crossroads of decisions as the rest of us:  Eschew evil, confront it and walk away OR be loyal and subservient to the cult.  Jean-Yves made his choice.....and was sucked into the cult vortex.

The scriptures describe this seduction in a variety of ways. 

[Raf]

Great, a new acronym.

 

JYDL

[Rocky]

5 hours ago, Raf said:

Great, a new acronym.

 

JYDL

and WWJYDLD!

[skyrider]

8 hours ago, Raf said:

Great, a new acronym.

JYDL

JYDL  ---  Just Yank Da Leash

The Leash Gets Shorter

[penworks]

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/philosophy/history/learning_from_history.html

I witnessed 17 years of history at TWI (1970-1987). I would encourage anyone who is still involved to reconsider what you are doing.

 

[skyrider]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 2:17 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Now, Monsieur de Liar, here's my open letter to you and your TWIts big apple style. A bit less comfortable for you perhaps, but, IMO, the last thing ANY "president" of TWIt deserves IS comfortable ANYTHING!

I left the TWIt gulag in December, 1986 after 16 years in the cesspool. I "graduated" from the Way corpse in August, 1976. I was in that thing Johnny the drunk Townsend called the Yak Twig after Chairman Geer the bus driver destroyed TWIt with his putsch paper about some legendary, supposedly benevolent "patriarch"  who was put one step above Saul of Tarsus as this man-o-gawd (MOG) for this our day and time and hour and minute and nanosecond.

I bought that purulent horse manure too, UNTIL I returned to your little mud hole in new Knoxville. I was on staff there from 1979-1986, when I left. That's where the truth and FACTS regarding dictor paul wierwille and his cult of perverted personality disorders began staring me in the face. Slowly but relentlessly those FACTS were oozing from the belly of that beast daily. The cognitive dissonance and abject immorality of what dictor and his boyz in da hoods were doing was horrifying. Truly and wildly against everything our Lord Christ stands for today. Psychopatholigical, alcohol-driven madness which literally killed innocents and drove a significant number of others to suicide! ALL in the name of "God's rightly divided Word" lived "in the renewed mind in manifestation" with complete and total allegiance to the MOG, "The Teacher", wayfers' "Father in the Word".

Unlike you de Liar, I did not bury my head or heart in that TWIt toilet. It did not take me 28 years of blatant foot-kissing and personal compromise to realize that something IS very rotten in TWItville, Ohio! So wrong that, no authentic Christian could ever in good conscience before the Lord stay there and continue to poison the waters of life for the genuine Christians who wanted just to love God and serve the bread of life to those in need.

And yet, here you are in 2016 agreeing to preside over that fraud of a minus-tray as if nothing bad enough ever happened that you must repent of before God and His Church, and ask for forgiveness from BOTH! That should be your number one task. But, I'm sure YOU don't "see the need" to do that, because you'd never agree to be  pwesident if you even hinted at doing this right thing.

This after 28 years at the vortex of sin and spiritual illness that your precious headquarters continues to live and promote. That means you were there during dem fawg years. That means ..........

<snip>

I bold-faced the "28 years" in DWBH's post. 

28 YEARS.......of monitoring from john reynolds, president's cabinet, and rosie/donna. 

28 YEARS.......of delusion, deception, distortions, devil-spirit discernments and deference.

28 YEARS.......in the self-congratulating compound and echo chamber of elitism.

28 YEARS.......removed from the real-life, challenged and over-burdened followers on the field.

28 YEARS.......groomed more thoroughly than any other twi-president before him.

 

[JayDee]

Can you say "conscience seared with a hot iron"?  No one in their right mind would hang around that place so long. There's no way he intends to change the culture there and do what Jesus would do. No f--ing way. 

[Allan]

When my wife and I and kids decided to leave Indiana family campus in '94 coz we saw some things going on that would have made a resident of Sodom and Gomorrah blush, it was jean yves de Liar that got on the phone to me and said they would pay our airfares back to New Zealand ONLY IF we agreed to keep our mouths shut as to what we had seen going on around us...kinda says it all...doesn't it ?!