As someone in TWI from 1970-1987, I can say I never heard "mind reading" put that way or taught that way by any Way leader, including VPW.
I never feared or hoped that any Way leader could read my thoughts. In fact, during the time I was preparing my escape from HQ, I was VERY thankful none of them could read my thoughts.
What I remember being taught was that when a healer laid hands on you to heal you, God would tell them what was wrong with you. As the healer prayed for you aloud, you'd hear the diagnosis then, and the conclusion of the session was the healer saying you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ.
Now, if you ask me today what I make of this mind reading issue, I'll say I believe our thoughts are private. Sometimes, when we are on the same "wavelength" with another person close to us, we may "think the same thing at the same time." But I don't believe that is mind reading. Of course, just because I believe or do not believe something does not make it true or untrue. I must test my ideas against evidence. I can believe the moon is made of cheese but then there's some evidence I must contend with that points to the contrary.
The mind is a mysterious thing ... one of my favorite writers is William James, author of The Variety of Religious Experience. Now THAT'S a mind blowing read!
VPW always used to say that the devil couldn't read thoughts.
Extend that a bit ... the devil's minions can't read thoughgs (otherwise, they'd be cleverer than the devil).
The devil's minions that seemingly spoke to VPW (pretending (?) to be God) couldn't read his mind and they certainly couldn't read yours and tell VPW or any of his human minions what you were thinking.
Oh course, none of that stops people showing off, or pretending to get revelation, or trying to showboat someone/something or gaslight someone/something or otherwise generally put lesser mortals down a peg or two.
i never bought vic's anecdotal yet "god breathed" evidence of any of the manifestations. Why? Because I "grew up in da Woid" under a couple of Steves who had it goin' on with Jesus Christ ! And, those Steves were Perez and Heefner, and, imho, they were both and each the "real deal" along with their spouses, Laurie P., and Sandi H.
And, under THEIR genuine "ministries", I was won to Christ and became a dedicated and bold disciple. Piffle was merely a class....a biblical proof that the Word was right and righteous! The real movement of God, through Christ, via holy spirit was what was happening every night in fellowships around NYC and LI. There was no stoopeed, hokey dictor paul contaminating the revival by Christ that was crashing through the northeast and every other part of the 1970 USA. That WAS God and The Boss, JC, doing their thing among the idealistic hippies of the late 60s. DPW lucked out enough to catch that wave with a BG-Bullinger board and a load of bullshit that was perfect for his day and time and hour....LOL! What an absolute fraud!
Even in the first AC I took, in Rye, NY in March, 1972, I never bought the John Noble anti-Beatles BS, or the "all psychiatry was born in a seance" garbage. I knew better, both intellectually and experientially, thanks to the Perezes, and the Heefners, along with my medical and nursing training. Carrying this internal conflict and cognitive dissonance was for me, the single most personal betrayal of self I ever committed in my life. I thankfully have both made amends to those I have hurt, and repented before the Lord Jesus Christ and those whom I have harmed, asking, and receiving their forgiveness......for which I am unspeakably thankful and duly responsible.
i never bought vic's anecdotal yet "god breathed" evidence of any of the manifestations. Why? Because I "grew up in da Woid" under a couple of Steves who had it goin' on with Jesus Christ ! And, those Steves were Perez and Heefner, and, imho, they were both and each the "real deal" along with their spouses, Laurie P., and Sandi H.
And, under THEIR genuine "ministries", I was won to Christ and became a dedicated and bold disciple. Piffle was merely a class....a biblical proof that the Word was right and righteous! The real movement of God, through Christ, via holy spirit was what was happening every night in fellowships around NYC and LI. There was no stoopeed, hokey dictor paul contaminating the revival by Christ that was crashing through the northeast and every other part of the 1970 USA. That WAS God and The Boss, JC, doing their thing among the idealistic hippies of the late 60s. DPW lucked out enough to catch that wave with a BG-Bullinger board and a load of .... that was perfect for his day and time and hour....LOL! What an absolute fraud!
Even in the first AC I took, in Rye, NY in March, 1972, I never bought the John Noble anti-Beatles BS, or the "all psychiatry was born in a seance" garbage. I knew better, both intellectually and experientially, thanks to the Perezes, and the Heefners, along with my medical and nursing training. Carrying this internal conflict and cognitive dissonance was for me, the single most personal betrayal of self I ever committed in my life. I thankfully have both made amends to those I have hurt, and repented before the Lord Jesus Christ and those whom I have harmed, asking, and receiving their forgiveness......for which I am unspeakably thankful and duly responsible.
A very interesting part of your bio I was unfamiliar with. Thank you for sharing it.
I was taught specifically that believers can not read minds. However, it was strongly implied, though not taught, that leaders could get revelation to tell them what you were thinking. So, in essence, they could know what you were thinking but not by way of mind reading. This would have been in the early 1970's, (maybe '73, '74) It's rather embarrassing now to think I bought into this nonsense.
What a difference 45 years makes. I believe it is very possible to read people. What does that mean?
Telepathy? Not really. But still, to a degree, we can and often do figure out what others' intentions, attitudes, feelings and even thoughts are before they are articulated verbally. But it's neither hooky-spookism nor godly revelation.
Whether we know it or not, we're all street-corner psychics. Without the ability to divine others' thoughts and feelings, we couldn't handle the simplest social situations—or achieve true intimacy with others. [...]
Mind reading enables us to negotiate, compete, cooperate, and achieve emotional closeness with others. It lets us figure out when we're being manipulated or seduced. It's how we know when someone finds our jokes hilarious or is humoring us out of politeness. Mind-reading ability is perhaps the most urgent element of social intelligence.
As someone in TWI from 1970-1987, I can say I never heard "mind reading" put that way or taught that way by any Way leader, including VPW.
I never feared or hoped that any Way leader could read my thoughts. In fact, during the time I was preparing my escape from HQ, I was VERY thankful none of them could read my thoughts.
What I remember being taught was that when a healer laid hands on you to heal you, God would tell them what was wrong with you. As the healer prayed for you aloud, you'd hear the diagnosis then, and the conclusion of the session was the healer saying you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ.
Now, if you ask me today what I make of this mind reading issue, I'll say I believe our thoughts are private. Sometimes, when we are on the same "wavelength" with another person close to us, we may "think the same thing at the same time." But I don't believe that is mind reading. Of course, just because I believe or do not believe something does not make it true or untrue. I must test my ideas against evidence. I can believe the moon is made of cheese but then there's some evidence I must contend with that points to the contrary.
The mind is a mysterious thing ... one of my favorite writers is William James, author of The Variety of Religious Experience. Now THAT'S a mind blowing read!
[/quote]
Indeed, hiding our thoughts, feelings, and attitudes can be done. Wouldn't that be a social skill separate from but related to reading social situations? Of course, just as reading social situations and reading people is a necessary skill for survival in groups, being able to effectively project differently than we actually think or feel would also be a necessary survival skill.
In fact, as a culture, we celebrate many of those who are expert a projecting something other than what they believe or attitudes they genuinely have. Those people are important in our society for their storytelling.
By the way, thanks Bolshevik for bringing up this subject.
Perhaps other related subjects include "community believing" and contagious emotions.
Hmmm...If people could read minds, I would have been thrown out of TWI long before I left on my own on January 11, 1996 (slow learner in that regard). Even before I ever was a part of der Way at age 16, my mother and father taught me your mind could not be read...nor could you read other minds. Nothing I have ever experienced in life, in the Way or out, has led me to change my mind. Only God and you know your thoughts, unless you share them with someone else.
Hmmm...If people could read minds, I would have been thrown out of TWI long before I left on my own on January 11, 1996 (slow learner in that regard). Even before I ever was a part of der Way at age 16, my mother and father taught me your mind could not be read...nor could you read other minds. Nothing I have ever experienced in life, in the Way or out, has led me to change my mind. Only God and you know your thoughts, unless you share them with someone else.
Do or can we ever unconsciously, or unintentionally, share them with someone else?
Of course we do not always telegraph our thoughts, intentions, feelings or attitudes. Nor do we want to.
Another "of course," is that when we (at least when I was) were young wayfers, social intelligence wasn't necessarily a skill that was in abundance... I wasn't adept at reading social situations, that's for sure.
This guy's research and TV series it spawned called "Lie To Me" have been really interesting to me over the last couple of years. And there's a spin-off coming fall 2017. Yea! I actually recently saw a demo lately of facial recognition software that is able to categorize the universal emotions and rate them on a scale of 0 to 1 in a face scanned.
Bolshevik, thanks for starting an interesting thread…I believe there’s something to what Penworks said about being on the same wavelength; I know couples, close friends, and co-workers experience that.
as far as TWI leadership “reading” someone’s mind - like how Waysider said (God giving a leader revelation of what you were thinking) that’s one of the many nonsensical things I ejected from my belief system after leaving TWI; but I will say this - I found Rocky’s reference to social intelligenceVERY interesting!
You’ll find some popular books reading body language – I’ve checked out a few of them; but usually I’m not a very observant person when it comes to social settings or interactions – I tend to focus on exactly what is being said, processing that - or I’m doing the really big no-no of thinking of what I’m going to say while they’re still talking.
But one doesn’t need to read books to learn how to read a person – it’s more about becoming familiar with all the typical “tells” of people – like a card shark who reads the reactions and body language of opponents. I think some TWI leaders were very adept at that – and if you combine it with being skilled at manipulation I think it almost simulates telepathic powers…. Reverend Card Shark picks up on your “weak hand” and by deception / bluffing gets you to go along with his or her line of thinking. That makes me think of the movie Focus – a fun movie to watch about con artists reading and deceiving people.
Bolshevik, thanks for starting an interesting thread…I believe there’s something to what Penworks said about being on the same wavelength; I know couples, close friends, and co-workers experience that.
as far as TWI leadership “reading” someone’s mind - like how Waysider said (God giving a leader revelation of what you were thinking) that’s one of the many nonsensical things I ejected from my belief system after leaving TWI; but I will say this - I found Rocky’s reference to social intelligenceVERY interesting!
You’ll find some popular books reading body language – I’ve checked out a few of them; but usually I’m not a very observant person when it comes to social settings or interactions – I tend to focus on exactly what is being said, processing that - or I’m doing the really big no-no of thinking of what I’m going to say while they’re still talking.
But one doesn’t need to read books to learn how to read a person – it’s more about becoming familiar with all the typical “tells” of people – like a card shark who reads the reactions and body language of opponents. I think some TWI leaders were very adept at that – and if you combine it with being skilled at manipulation I think it almost simulates telepathic powers…. Reverend Card Shark picks up on your “weak hand” and by deception / bluffing gets you to go along with his or her line of thinking. That makes me think of the movie Focus – a fun movie to watch about con artists reading and deceiving people.
There is an interesting new TV show starring Michael Weatherly (formerly of NCIS) called "Bull" that premiers in the US this fall. It is supposedly based on the early career of Dr. Phil (not a personal favorite of mine). The fictional Dr. Bull is supposedly able to "read the jury" in certain cases by looking at body language, etc. Should be interesting.
When I mentioned not being able to read minds, I specifically meant that NO so-called "heavy" in TWI (especially in the Craig years, when "super spirituality" was common on local and state wanna-bes tried to prove their mettle) ... were able to read minds. In my day-to-day life over the years, I have never had a problem with an "average bear" human being thinking he/she could read my mind.
There is a place in Scripture I remember where it says, "Jesus, knowing their thoughts..." which was, of course, by God telling him. I'm sure wanna-bes from the Way might have used that as an excuse to say they knew someone's thoughts. They were not Jesus Christ....but like Yogi, they thought themselves "smarter than the average bear." (if you are too young to remember Yogi Bear cartoons, my apologies for an obscure reference...)
There is an interesting new TV show starring Michael Weatherly (formerly of NCIS) called "Bull" that premiers in the US this fall. It is supposedly based on the early career of Dr. Phil (not a personal favorite of mine). The fictional Dr. Bull is supposedly able to "read the jury" in certain cases by looking at body language, etc. Should be interesting....)
That show sounds like it might be interesting, DogLover…..some of my favorite movies have a lot of courtroom drama and tension – and being able to read a jury as you described reminds me of Runaway Jury – Gene Hackman portrays a jury consultant who advises the defense attorney during jury selection as well as thru the trial itself. One of the many “talents” of Hackman’s character is the ability to read people;
the movie also has an interesting counterpoint to Hackman’s skills – John Cusack’s character driven by a personal interest is perhaps just as sly as Hackman and especially skilled at deception and manipulation - he actually manages to get himself selected as a juror….so you have the two things in play – a person trying to read each member of the jury and a certain juror who is intentionally “giving off” false “tells” as well as manipulating others on the jury.
But some people are more adept than others at reading body language. Or, perhaps, recognising what certain body language movements actually signal, about that person's thoughts. Most of us have some ability, even if we don't recognise it much. But some people make a study of it. Con-men, for example. Salesmen. Those who want something from you. Manipulators.
Even then, other people don't know your precise thoughts, only those mirrored by certain actions or behaviours at that particular time.. They don't know unless they ask careful questions that you are concerned about your cat, or your auntie Susie, or that the bank sent you a threatening letter just yesterday. They don't know the name of your boss, your friends or your yacht without asking those questions by some means.
But some people are more adept than others at reading body language. Or, perhaps, recognising what certain body language movements actually signal, about that person's thoughts. Most of us have some ability, even if we don't recognise it much. But some people make a study of it. Con-men, for example. Salesmen. Those who want something from you. Manipulators.
Even then, other people don't know your precise thoughts, only those mirrored by certain actions or behaviours at that particular time.. They don't know unless they ask careful questions that you are concerned about your cat, or your auntie Susie, or that the bank sent you a threatening letter just yesterday. They don't know the name of your boss, your friends or your yacht without asking those questions by some means.
Hell - that’s impressive! I didn’t even know I had a yacht! Who cares about the name on my yacht – can they tell me where it’s located ?!
…oh wait – I get it….I’m supposed to read the magical thinking thread now.
And, a bit off topic, here's something about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuP5uOI7Xwc. There's a bit around minute 44 that might have a familiar ring to it, but the whole article is worth watching.
That show sounds like it might be interesting, DogLover…..some of my favorite movies have a lot of courtroom drama and tension – and being able to read a jury as you described reminds me of Runaway Jury – Gene Hackman portrays a jury consultant who advises the defense attorney during jury selection as well as thru the trial itself. One of the many “talents” of Hackman’s character is the ability to read people;
the movie also has an interesting counterpoint to Hackman’s skills – John Cusack’s character driven by a personal interest is perhaps just as sly as Hackman and especially skilled at deception and manipulation - he actually manages to get himself selected as a juror….so you have the two things in play – a person trying to read each member of the jury and a certain juror who is intentionally “giving off” false “tells” as well as manipulating others on the jury.
But some people are more adept than others at reading body language. Or, perhaps, recognising what certain body language movements actually signal, about that person's thoughts. Most of us have some ability, even if we don't recognise it much. But some people make a study of it. Con-men, for example. Salesmen. Those who want something from you. Manipulators.
Even then, other people don't know your precise thoughts, only those mirrored by certain actions or behaviours at that particular time.. They don't know unless they ask careful questions that you are concerned about your cat, or your auntie Susie, or that the bank sent you a threatening letter just yesterday. They don't know the name of your boss, your friends or your yacht without asking those questions by some means.
That may just be a matter of semantics. Perhaps technically true. Nevertheless, those manipulators often can have a great deal of influence over what you are thinking at a given moment.
Again, this is, in my view, more a social issue than spiritual.
What about "likemindedness" or being of "one mind" or of "one accord?" How does something like that come about?
In sports, it's sometimes so tangible that casual observers can see it even if they don't know how to articulate or explain the concept.
T-Bone - that yacht in your imagination, of course!
Magical thinking? Here's Magic Yacht (yes, it really is called that!).
wow - that's funny the "Magic Yacht" - thanks, Twinky - your post is like a believing image of victory for me....cuz if i owned that yacht i would be-leaving the country on a cruise around the world!
That may just be a matter of semantics. Perhaps technically true. Nevertheless, those manipulators often can have a great deal of influence over what you are thinking at a given moment.
Again, this is, in my view, more a social issue than spiritual.
What about "likemindedness" or being of "one mind" or of "one accord?" How does something like that come about?
In sports, it's sometimes so tangible that casual observers can see it even if they don't know how to articulate or explain the concept.
They call it, "team chemistry."
Yeah – I can understand that….it may be a little off topic but my dogs are definitely mind readers and manipulators; if they see me put on running shoes they go crazy because they know they’re getting a walk; Tonto and I have to spell out certain words because the dogs recognize them and get crazy excited: “Hey Babe, want me to let the dogs O – U – T one more time before we go to bed?” or “want to take the dogs for a W – A – L – K?” If we start packing for a trip the dogs act a little nervous because they know something is up. If they want to get fed earlier than the usual late afternoon time – they start acting super cute and cuddly. If they want some attention or want to play they’re all over us on the coach while we’re trying to watch TV.
I just know my dogs are into all that powers of the mind stuff…one day I just happened to walk in on them doing their yoga routine – who knows what else they’re up to when we’re not around.
PS - here's a tip for all you folks wanting to get a pet; NEVER get a pet that is smarter than you....you've been warned.
Edited by T-Bone add a warning for those wanting to get a pet
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T-Bone
This picture is for you, Don't Worry....that's Luna with her soulful look.
waysider
I was trying to read your mind. All I could make out was "something, something, Donald Duck Dunn".
Rocky
Going back to the notion of academic research related to social and emotional intelligence, I just found this article published yesterday.
Posted Images
penworks
As someone in TWI from 1970-1987, I can say I never heard "mind reading" put that way or taught that way by any Way leader, including VPW.
I never feared or hoped that any Way leader could read my thoughts. In fact, during the time I was preparing my escape from HQ, I was VERY thankful none of them could read my thoughts.
What I remember being taught was that when a healer laid hands on you to heal you, God would tell them what was wrong with you. As the healer prayed for you aloud, you'd hear the diagnosis then, and the conclusion of the session was the healer saying you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ.
Now, if you ask me today what I make of this mind reading issue, I'll say I believe our thoughts are private. Sometimes, when we are on the same "wavelength" with another person close to us, we may "think the same thing at the same time." But I don't believe that is mind reading. Of course, just because I believe or do not believe something does not make it true or untrue. I must test my ideas against evidence. I can believe the moon is made of cheese but then there's some evidence I must contend with that points to the contrary.
The mind is a mysterious thing ... one of my favorite writers is William James, author of The Variety of Religious Experience. Now THAT'S a mind blowing read!
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Twinky
VPW always used to say that the devil couldn't read thoughts.
Extend that a bit ... the devil's minions can't read thoughgs (otherwise, they'd be cleverer than the devil).
The devil's minions that seemingly spoke to VPW (pretending (?) to be God) couldn't read his mind and they certainly couldn't read yours and tell VPW or any of his human minions what you were thinking.
Oh course, none of that stops people showing off, or pretending to get revelation, or trying to showboat someone/something or gaslight someone/something or otherwise generally put lesser mortals down a peg or two.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Very interesting topic. Thanks Bolshevik!
i never bought vic's anecdotal yet "god breathed" evidence of any of the manifestations. Why? Because I "grew up in da Woid" under a couple of Steves who had it goin' on with Jesus Christ ! And, those Steves were Perez and Heefner, and, imho, they were both and each the "real deal" along with their spouses, Laurie P., and Sandi H.
And, under THEIR genuine "ministries", I was won to Christ and became a dedicated and bold disciple. Piffle was merely a class....a biblical proof that the Word was right and righteous! The real movement of God, through Christ, via holy spirit was what was happening every night in fellowships around NYC and LI. There was no stoopeed, hokey dictor paul contaminating the revival by Christ that was crashing through the northeast and every other part of the 1970 USA. That WAS God and The Boss, JC, doing their thing among the idealistic hippies of the late 60s. DPW lucked out enough to catch that wave with a BG-Bullinger board and a load of bullshit that was perfect for his day and time and hour....LOL! What an absolute fraud!
Even in the first AC I took, in Rye, NY in March, 1972, I never bought the John Noble anti-Beatles BS, or the "all psychiatry was born in a seance" garbage. I knew better, both intellectually and experientially, thanks to the Perezes, and the Heefners, along with my medical and nursing training. Carrying this internal conflict and cognitive dissonance was for me, the single most personal betrayal of self I ever committed in my life. I thankfully have both made amends to those I have hurt, and repented before the Lord Jesus Christ and those whom I have harmed, asking, and receiving their forgiveness......for which I am unspeakably thankful and duly responsible.
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shortfuse
A very interesting part of your bio I was unfamiliar with. Thank you for sharing it.
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waysider
I was taught specifically that believers can not read minds. However, it was strongly implied, though not taught, that leaders could get revelation to tell them what you were thinking. So, in essence, they could know what you were thinking but not by way of mind reading. This would have been in the early 1970's, (maybe '73, '74) It's rather embarrassing now to think I bought into this nonsense.
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Rocky
What a difference 45 years makes. I believe it is very possible to read people. What does that mean?
Telepathy? Not really. But still, to a degree, we can and often do figure out what others' intentions, attitudes, feelings and even thoughts are before they are articulated verbally. But it's neither hooky-spookism nor godly revelation.
From Psychology Today,
There's plenty of research that has been done on Social Intelligence.
Edited by RockyI cannot recall whether anyone formally or informally taught or even just talked about any concept like this when I was a young wayfer.
But I now believe that the intuitiveness that I then thought was akin to revelation from God is related to social and emotional intelligence.
It's really not all that mystical (anymore).
why does it matter?
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Rocky
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DogLover
Hmmm...If people could read minds, I would have been thrown out of TWI long before I left on my own on January 11, 1996 (slow learner in that regard). Even before I ever was a part of der Way at age 16, my mother and father taught me your mind could not be read...nor could you read other minds. Nothing I have ever experienced in life, in the Way or out, has led me to change my mind. Only God and you know your thoughts, unless you share them with someone else.
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Rocky
Do or can we ever unconsciously, or unintentionally, share them with someone else?
Remember the expression, "wearing your heart on your sleeve?"
Of course we do not always telegraph our thoughts, intentions, feelings or attitudes. Nor do we want to.
Another "of course," is that when we (at least when I was) were young wayfers, social intelligence wasn't necessarily a skill that was in abundance... I wasn't adept at reading social situations, that's for sure.
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chockfull
This is so awesome that the conversation is steering away from superstitions and mysticism and ending up where it is.
Many so-called "mind reading" tricks are based in science:
https://www.paulekman.com/
This guy's research and TV series it spawned called "Lie To Me" have been really interesting to me over the last couple of years. And there's a spin-off coming fall 2017. Yea! I actually recently saw a demo lately of facial recognition software that is able to categorize the universal emotions and rate them on a scale of 0 to 1 in a face scanned.
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T-Bone
Bolshevik, thanks for starting an interesting thread…I believe there’s something to what Penworks said about being on the same wavelength; I know couples, close friends, and co-workers experience that.
as far as TWI leadership “reading” someone’s mind - like how Waysider said (God giving a leader revelation of what you were thinking) that’s one of the many nonsensical things I ejected from my belief system after leaving TWI; but I will say this - I found Rocky’s reference to social intelligence VERY interesting!
You’ll find some popular books reading body language – I’ve checked out a few of them; but usually I’m not a very observant person when it comes to social settings or interactions – I tend to focus on exactly what is being said, processing that - or I’m doing the really big no-no of thinking of what I’m going to say while they’re still talking.
But one doesn’t need to read books to learn how to read a person – it’s more about becoming familiar with all the typical “tells” of people – like a card shark who reads the reactions and body language of opponents. I think some TWI leaders were very adept at that – and if you combine it with being skilled at manipulation I think it almost simulates telepathic powers…. Reverend Card Shark picks up on your “weak hand” and by deception / bluffing gets you to go along with his or her line of thinking. That makes me think of the movie Focus – a fun movie to watch about con artists reading and deceiving people.
the movie "Focus"
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Rocky
Regarding the Will Smith movie... we are ALL subject to being conned. And wierwille was pretty darn good at conning us.
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DogLover
There is an interesting new TV show starring Michael Weatherly (formerly of NCIS) called "Bull" that premiers in the US this fall. It is supposedly based on the early career of Dr. Phil (not a personal favorite of mine). The fictional Dr. Bull is supposedly able to "read the jury" in certain cases by looking at body language, etc. Should be interesting.
When I mentioned not being able to read minds, I specifically meant that NO so-called "heavy" in TWI (especially in the Craig years, when "super spirituality" was common on local and state wanna-bes tried to prove their mettle) ... were able to read minds. In my day-to-day life over the years, I have never had a problem with an "average bear" human being thinking he/she could read my mind.
There is a place in Scripture I remember where it says, "Jesus, knowing their thoughts..." which was, of course, by God telling him. I'm sure wanna-bes from the Way might have used that as an excuse to say they knew someone's thoughts. They were not Jesus Christ....but like Yogi, they thought themselves "smarter than the average bear." (if you are too young to remember Yogi Bear cartoons, my apologies for an obscure reference...)
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T-Bone
That show sounds like it might be interesting, DogLover…..some of my favorite movies have a lot of courtroom drama and tension – and being able to read a jury as you described reminds me of Runaway Jury – Gene Hackman portrays a jury consultant who advises the defense attorney during jury selection as well as thru the trial itself. One of the many “talents” of Hackman’s character is the ability to read people;
the movie also has an interesting counterpoint to Hackman’s skills – John Cusack’s character driven by a personal interest is perhaps just as sly as Hackman and especially skilled at deception and manipulation - he actually manages to get himself selected as a juror….so you have the two things in play – a person trying to read each member of the jury and a certain juror who is intentionally “giving off” false “tells” as well as manipulating others on the jury.
Runaway Jury
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Twinky
Nobody can read minds.
But some people are more adept than others at reading body language. Or, perhaps, recognising what certain body language movements actually signal, about that person's thoughts. Most of us have some ability, even if we don't recognise it much. But some people make a study of it. Con-men, for example. Salesmen. Those who want something from you. Manipulators.
Even then, other people don't know your precise thoughts, only those mirrored by certain actions or behaviours at that particular time.. They don't know unless they ask careful questions that you are concerned about your cat, or your auntie Susie, or that the bank sent you a threatening letter just yesterday. They don't know the name of your boss, your friends or your yacht without asking those questions by some means.
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T-Bone
Hell - that’s impressive! I didn’t even know I had a yacht! Who cares about the name on my yacht – can they tell me where it’s located ?!
…oh wait – I get it….I’m supposed to read the magical thinking thread now.Link to comment
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Twinky
You might like Derren Brown's debunking videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X56Kmbgn6dE. It's quite long,but even just the first ten minutes is interesting.
And, a bit off topic, here's something about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuP5uOI7Xwc. There's a bit around minute 44 that might have a familiar ring to it, but the whole article is worth watching.
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Twinky
T-Bone - that yacht in your imagination, of course!
Magical thinking? Here's Magic Yacht (yes, it really is called that!).
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Rocky
Are you sure about that? I would have to figure that Jesus was quite adept at reading the social situation and dealing intelligently with it.
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Rocky
Excellent example. It's also the reason why John Grisham is one of my favorite authors.
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Rocky
That may just be a matter of semantics. Perhaps technically true. Nevertheless, those manipulators often can have a great deal of influence over what you are thinking at a given moment.
Again, this is, in my view, more a social issue than spiritual.
What about "likemindedness" or being of "one mind" or of "one accord?" How does something like that come about?
In sports, it's sometimes so tangible that casual observers can see it even if they don't know how to articulate or explain the concept.
They call it, "team chemistry."
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T-Bone
wow - that's funny the "Magic Yacht" - thanks, Twinky - your post is like a believing image of victory for me....cuz if i owned that yacht i would be-leaving the country on a cruise around the world!
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T-Bone
Yeah – I can understand that….it may be a little off topic but my dogs are definitely mind readers and manipulators; if they see me put on running shoes they go crazy because they know they’re getting a walk; Tonto and I have to spell out certain words because the dogs recognize them and get crazy excited: “Hey Babe, want me to let the dogs O – U – T one more time before we go to bed?” or “want to take the dogs for a W – A – L – K ?” If we start packing for a trip the dogs act a little nervous because they know something is up. If they want to get fed earlier than the usual late afternoon time – they start acting super cute and cuddly. If they want some attention or want to play they’re all over us on the coach while we’re trying to watch TV.
I just know my dogs are into all that powers of the mind stuff…one day I just happened to walk in on them doing their yoga routine – who knows what else they’re up to when we’re not around.
PS - here's a tip for all you folks wanting to get a pet; NEVER get a pet that is smarter than you....you've been warned.
Edited by T-Boneadd a warning for those wanting to get a pet
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Bolshevik
So train people's emotional/social perceptions in terms of spiritual perceptions. Those most accepting of this alternate reality, make them leaders.
Sort of reminds one of how the physical world was once perceived.
LINK
(edited to fix link)
Edited by Bolshevikedited to fix link, then edited again to use this new "reason for edit" box
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