We are doing well. Sometimes life gives you a setback, but then usually a chance to get even-keeled again and maybe advance a bit before the next crisis comes along.
We have been very active in community, we both serve on the board of Cooperative Extension Service. We spend a lot of time in helping new farmers to get established in farming.
We have been attended a Way fellowship right up until this past Spring. But a number of things they began doing bugged us. They had been real good in rotating who gets to share teachings. While most were just canned stuff from the Way Mag or Sunday night service, they were excited to see actual original Word Studies being done and taught. So it was fun for us. But in the last year, that all changed. Leadership felt they needed to give more teaching opportunities to those who have the greatest problems. Then the guy with the most problems was going to become the new fellowship coordinator. We had a peaceful conversation and explained that we were no long blessed to be attending full time. No harsh words were spoken, we parted on good terms. Then a couple of the believers told us privately that we are to be shunned now. So we are done with it.
We are both attending different multi-church Bible study groups, and that is working out well for us.
yeah life is an interesting journey...that is great you help new farmers get established....i keep telling myself when i "retire" or semi-retire - i'll do more to help out around our community.
sorry to hear about you parting ways with the Way fellowship - i say sorry because i'm thinking of the friendships and close bonds i had to sacrifice if i still wanted to forge ahead on a path of my own choosing ....Tonto and i have done some church shopping over the years but never settled on any one group....who knows - - maybe when we retire
I'd like to discuss the general tone of discussions here at the GSC. As a participant, I'm entitled to discuss and state my opinion, and open a discussion with the other participants.
I think we, as a whole, are going in the wrong direction.
Does the GSC have a purpose? I believe we all agree with the statement that the GSC "exists to tell the other side of the story." But let's continue from there.
WHY tell the other side of the story?
To inform others so they can make informed decisions.
WHAT decisions are we informing them for?
The decision to leave twi if they are in,
the decision to leave twi-spinoffs if they are in,
the decision to leave twi-doctrine if it is in them.
Those people can then either participate directly here,
or lurk while they inform themselves and consider things.
I believe, other than "we're also here to hang out", that covers why the GSC exists, and why we post.
That's why I think we need to reconsider our tone.
Granted, we have a freedom to speak our minds here, and a freedom to disagree here, that is unheard-of in twi and in twi-clone circles. However, we have a duty to use our freedom RESPONSIBLY.
If the MOST important things about the GSC are to be accurate information sources so that innies and those immersed in twi doctrine can be delivered from twi structure and doctrine, then we need to consider HOW we can accomplish this- and how we can FAIL to accomplish this.
We have had a LOT of people lurk at the GSC, and then post and speak their minds. We have had considerable numbers lurk, pm a few people at most, then take off. From what I'd heard, many of the people who lurked then ran were people who chose not to post because they thought the fora were not safe places to post.
Should they have thought the fora were safe places to post? That really depended on who was posting and why they were posting.
A number of women never posted because vpw apologists accused women who were molested or raped by vpw of being the villains of the piece. Just like some women won't go to trial by charging a rapist because they'd be depicted as a slut on the witness stand, we had non-posters who remained non-posters for similar reasons. (We have had regular poster women mention getting those pm's and being given those reasons as to why the women were refusing to participate.) Some of us thought (I still do) that this was actually an intended purpose for some people. They wanted to silence the women before they spoke by making them feel unsafe-thus preserving the image of the rapist vpw instead as a non-rapist rather than a sexual predator and felon. So, they made the environment here "TOXIC" and the women stayed away-rather sensibly, IMHO.
The problem then was there was no easy answer. To simply eject those predatory posters was to open the GSC of claims of censorship and being twi-like in silencing dissent. To say nothing was to provide them an unrestricted platform to attempt to reform vpw's image back to his manufactured one and not who he was behind the scenes. To respond in kind meant the threads got heated and looked antagonistic-mainly because they were. So, in fairness, I can't say there's an undisputed manner in which they SHOULD have been handled.
Most of the time now, we don't get people with their own personal soap-boxes, here to use the GSC as free advertisement. (We still get some of them some of the time.) So, I don't think that issue is a current one, but I am aware of the side-effects it had for the people we MEANT to help.
So, now, we get our regulars, we get occasional new arrivals, and we get lurkers who don't post.
We can choose the tones of our posts, we can choose the tones of our discussions.
Which tones will best serve with each type of person?
Shall we just be strident-handle everyone with the same approach as dealing with a vpw apologist? That might make the posters feel good about themselves, and it might make some other posters feel good about "letting him have it." But is that a good enough reason to swing the 2 x 4 in every post?
When regulars discuss with regulars, I think it is boorish and beneath us to resort to that with all but isolated, extreme posts. Regular discussions with all parties just attacking freestyle aren't good for ANY participants- hurt feelings go all around (except, perhaps, for the poster who is the exception and is the sole spewer of bile while others post with kindness. He can feel powerful while free of others giving him "a taste of his own medicine.")
The situation is a LOT worse when dealing with the other 2 scenarios.
Let's say we get a new person who was raised in twi, had parents who only taught him the party line, still has family in twi, but is having a few doubts now. Like other youngsters, he goes online for information, and in this case, discovers the GSC. His initial posts are going to sound a LOT like the party line of twi. Mind you, twi has been clear in telling its people that "out here" is worse than "in there." If he comes off with posts that echo the party line, it is SO easy to just whack him hard as soon as he arrives, then make our arms sore patting ourselves on the back on teaching a lesson to another twi drone.
But did that help?
He WASN'T a twi drone. He needed some compassion, some information, and some discussion. He needed to see that there's life outside twi-and it's better than life in twi, which already IS mean. If we show him it's JUST as mean here- or even meaner- then we chase him away from the information he needs, and we legitimize the scare tactics of twi, where he was told we'd just attack him if he showed up here.
But hey, we "told the other side of the story." We also "told him the truth." "He's responsible for what he believes and how he responds." All of that is true- and yet, it's STILL wrong because we were LAZY and COLD-HEARTED because it was a comfortable fit for us. Then we got to relax and feel superior than those drones still in twi.
How much of twi dogma still runs us if this is acceptable behaviour? Is this really the legacy we want to leave for the next poster who reads our posts?
Oh, and things are even WORSE for the gun-shy, sensitive lurker. They look around, see others post in a familiar way and get shouted into submission, and then they take off. They're already hurting and beaten, they know another beating when they see it, and they're not going to volunteer for it.
We have a lot to offer. We have exactly the information some people desperately need-and we offer it for free.
Why shouldn't we make a little effort to make them at least a tiny bit welcome, and make the GSC a place that won't send them fleeing in fear
The welcome mat is out and ripped out under your feet before you can even get all the way into the door. the GSC dogs of war should post the rules of engagement prior to engaging.
The welcome mat is out and ripped out under your feet before you can even get all the way into the door. the GSC dogs of war should post the rules of engagement prior to engaging.
GSC, you are eating your own.
Your latest posts are too cryptic for me. Can you please explain, in simple terms, what you are trying to say?
My personal strategy about tone and decorum is, if you can't stand the heat, then stay out of the kitchen. Other posters have done that regarding me and vice versa. As an aside, I think GSC has a lot going for it. That Jehovah's Witness site was awful sometimes. No restrictions there. Transnet wasn't far behind. I wonder how many lives would be in danger if there was an al kaeda site with GSCs kind of open discussion.
When someone attacks you, you can either "flee in fear", or respond in kind. That's just human. People are going to do that.
quote: Does the GSC have a purpose? I believe we all agree with the statement that the GSC "exists to tell the other side of the story." But let's continue from there.
WHY tell the other side of the story?
To inform others so they can make informed decisions.
WHAT decisions are we informing them for?
The decision to leave twi if they are in,
the decision to leave twi-spinoffs if they are in,
the decision to leave twi-doctrine if it is in them.
If this really is, by consensus or otherwise, GSC's "mission", I don't have to agree with it 100%.
We are doing well. Sometimes life gives you a setback, but then usually a chance to get even-keeled again and maybe advance a bit before the next crisis comes along.
We have been very active in community, we both serve on the board of Cooperative Extension Service. We spend a lot of time in helping new farmers to get established in farming.
We have been attended a Way fellowship right up until this past Spring. But a number of things they began doing bugged us. They had been real good in rotating who gets to share teachings. While most were just canned stuff from the Way Mag or Sunday night service, they were excited to see actual original Word Studies being done and taught. So it was fun for us. But in the last year, that all changed. Leadership felt they needed to give more teaching opportunities to those who have the greatest problems. Then the guy with the most problems was going to become the new fellowship coordinator. We had a peaceful conversation and explained that we were no long blessed to be attending full time. No harsh words were spoken, we parted on good terms. Then a couple of the believers told us privately that we are to be shunned now. So we are done with it.
We are both attending different multi-church Bible study groups, and that is working out well for us.
Galen, for sure! Some of the opinions are great, some of the opinions are terrible, and some of them are way over my head. Some of them make me laugh, and some make me me cry. It never ceases to amaze me how different people's experiences with TWI were. Some of us left willingly, and some were kicked-out. Galen, you are right; there are no shortages of opinions here.
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T-Bone
great ! i was hoping you would...
by the way, Galen it's good to see you 'round these parts. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
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Galen
It is good to see you as well.
We are doing well. Sometimes life gives you a setback, but then usually a chance to get even-keeled again and maybe advance a bit before the next crisis comes along.
We have been very active in community, we both serve on the board of Cooperative Extension Service. We spend a lot of time in helping new farmers to get established in farming.
We have been attended a Way fellowship right up until this past Spring. But a number of things they began doing bugged us. They had been real good in rotating who gets to share teachings. While most were just canned stuff from the Way Mag or Sunday night service, they were excited to see actual original Word Studies being done and taught. So it was fun for us. But in the last year, that all changed. Leadership felt they needed to give more teaching opportunities to those who have the greatest problems. Then the guy with the most problems was going to become the new fellowship coordinator. We had a peaceful conversation and explained that we were no long blessed to be attending full time. No harsh words were spoken, we parted on good terms. Then a couple of the believers told us privately that we are to be shunned now. So we are done with it.
We are both attending different multi-church Bible study groups, and that is working out well for us.
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T-Bone
yeah life is an interesting journey...that is great you help new farmers get established....i keep telling myself when i "retire" or semi-retire - i'll do more to help out around our community.
sorry to hear about you parting ways with the Way fellowship - i say sorry because i'm thinking of the friendships and close bonds i had to sacrifice if i still wanted to forge ahead on a path of my own choosing ....Tonto and i have done some church shopping over the years but never settled on any one group....who knows - - maybe when we retire
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Galen
Retirement can be good. I like it. My wife just got her pension 2 months ago.
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Grace Valerie Claire
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MRAP
The welcome mat is out and ripped out under your feet before you can even get all the way into the door. the GSC dogs of war should post the rules of engagement prior to engaging.
GSC, you are eating your own.
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Twinky
"A soft answer turneth away wrath."
"Be kind to one another."
"An ounce of kindness always goes a lot further than an ounce of bitterness."
No doubt other people here can also supply proverbs about being nice to other people.
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waysider
Your latest posts are too cryptic for me. Can you please explain, in simple terms, what you are trying to say?
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johniam
My personal strategy about tone and decorum is, if you can't stand the heat, then stay out of the kitchen. Other posters have done that regarding me and vice versa. As an aside, I think GSC has a lot going for it. That Jehovah's Witness site was awful sometimes. No restrictions there. Transnet wasn't far behind. I wonder how many lives would be in danger if there was an al kaeda site with GSCs kind of open discussion.
When someone attacks you, you can either "flee in fear", or respond in kind. That's just human. People are going to do that.
quote: Does the GSC have a purpose? I believe we all agree with the statement that the GSC "exists to tell the other side of the story." But let's continue from there.
WHY tell the other side of the story?
To inform others so they can make informed decisions.
WHAT decisions are we informing them for?
The decision to leave twi if they are in,
the decision to leave twi-spinoffs if they are in,
the decision to leave twi-doctrine if it is in them.
If this really is, by consensus or otherwise, GSC's "mission", I don't have to agree with it 100%.
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waysider
I don't recall anyone asking you to.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, I think that is a great idea!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Galen, good for you!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Wonderful!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Galen, for sure! Some of the opinions are great, some of the opinions are terrible, and some of them are way over my head. Some of them make me laugh, and some make me me cry. It never ceases to amaze me how different people's experiences with TWI were. Some of us left willingly, and some were kicked-out. Galen, you are right; there are no shortages of opinions here.
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