Reading through this thread, and a couple of observations:
At first, you guys were doing fine, arguing positions over personalities. That includes DWBH. TLC went after DWBH's positions, Twinky posted observations, DWBH challenged them to think through the consequences of their positions. WW weighed in substantively as well.
Things start to go south with post #18. TLC went after DWBH, not his position.
Post 19: DWBH responds in kind.
BOTH are out of line.
Simply put, had DWBH (in post #17) left it alone after asking the first three questions (i.e., his first paragraph), I would have interpreted the challenge to be genuine. However, after reading the rest of the post, it left me doubting the sincerity of the inquiry. Which, for better or for worse, stirred me to say so (...though, evidently in a more sarcastic or snarky manner than may have been necessary or appropriate.)
My apologies.
Yes, the content quoted is appropriate for doctrinal. But it is not necessarily inappropriate here, as long as we're still relating it back to TLTF.
Quite frankly, of all of you I might be (probably am) the most unfamiliar with what TLTF did and/or does teach or believe, so unless something started here moves over to the doctrinal forums, I'll refrain from further comment.
24: Twinky, you lost me. You quoted TLC and directed a post at DWBH. Did you realize that?
Apologies, it looked right when I posted it but re-reading makes it less than logical.
25: Sort of agree with Twinky. However, the comments DWBH made were specifically related to what TLTF is teaching, so I would leave it be. Yes, the content quoted is appropriate for doctrinal. But it is not necessarily inappropriate here, as long as we're still relating it back to TLTF.
Twinky made none of this personal, for which I am grateful. You other guys, check yourselves. I don't see a huge issue with what anyone posted, but you're straying off topic.
Thanks, Modcat.
It did feel like I was about to become victim to some of DWBH's ire. I don't like the way he shouts and calls people names; he knows this. Anger at some of he higher-ups I can understand; anger at other posters is out of order.
If people shout, I just smile and back off... don't re-engage. I have to say, I'm getting really fed up with the bickering here at the Cafe. Maybe I will just back off... for a long while... I only stay because I hope that a calm and rational voice might be appreciated by some.
Bye Twinky. Sorry you feel the way you do. I answered you honestly and politely. As I've said to you before......don't like my style, ignore me. I'm happy to do the same for you if you desire. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. I have stated. Just think of me as the Gordon Ramsay if the kitchen here at the cafe. Maybe that will help you think of my style a little less opinionated. Peace.
Any one want to make an effort to return to the original purpose of starting this thread in the subforum "Spirit and Truth Fellowship" and posting opinions and/or counterpoints? Opinions as to the content of what I quoted in the opening posts on this thread from TLTF's most recent rehashed TWIt-n-Vic tripe? That was, after all, the purpose of the opening series of posts here prior to various detours unrelated to the opening series of posts and the topic. That seems to me to be the purpose of this subform. TY.
I'm not opposed to the notion of developing classes, but I am opposed to the notion of charging for them unless the recipient is getting something tangible in return or it's clear that we're paying for rented space. Or both.
From my understanding of CES and, later, STFI, those who paid for the classes actually GOT the class. The whole set of tapes/CD's. That's fair. You're selling a product.
But in the case of TWI and its offshoots, it really seems to me that these classes are less about teaching than they are about cultic-socialization and indoctrination. And yes, there's a difference. Teaching develops critical thinking skills. Indoctrination does not. TWI talked a good game when it came to critical thinking, but it was manipulated to the point that what we were actually taught and encouraged to do was parrot what the organization wanted us to think and say.
Without exception, all of these "foundational classes," from PFAL to WAP to Whatever-the-devil-they're-calling-this, do not seek to teach as much as they seek to encourage group cohesion. Here's what to say. Here's how to say it. Here's what to think. Here's how to think it. Without exception, they all begin with their conclusion, and encourage us to disregard anything that challenges that conclusion.
What's the greatest secret in the world today? The Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God.
Really? That's the greatest secret in the world? Because if so, it's poorly kept. Lots of people believe that, whether they phrase it that way or not. Cures for cancer, ALS, autism, amputee regeneration? Not as secret as something believed by millions. Nonsense.
And along with being the word and will of God, it's perfect! One preposition out of place and your Bible would fall to pieces (until a preposition is shown to be out of place. Then you're nitpicking). In any other field, if you start with your conclusion and discard anything that conflicts with it, you're an intellectual fraud. But when it comes to the Bible, you're steadfast!
I attended a church in South Florida that never seemed to see a need to "run classes." If they wanted to start a class, they just started teaching on the subject every Sunday. Keep coming to church, and you've got the whole class. Yes, they recorded it, so if you wanted to see it all again, you could buy it later. But if you want to find the class from five years ago? Yeah, good luck with that.
It shouldn't be about the classes. Ever. It should be about the content, which should be shared constantly.
Anyway, good luck with this class, JALynn. I'm sure it will be an improvement over the last one, but not over the next one.
I attended a church in South Florida that never seemed to see a need to "run classes." If they wanted to start a class, they just started teaching on the subject every Sunday. Keep coming to church, and you've got the whole class. Yes, they recorded it, so if you wanted to see it all again, you could buy it later. But if you want to find the class from five years ago? Yeah, good luck with that.
It shouldn't be about the classes. Ever. It should be about the content, which should be shared constantly.
(SNIP)
Great post with great points, Raf !
after finishing PFAL for the first time i remember thinking why don't they get this stuff out to the churches ASAP - forget about making church folks sit through a long class - just have grads share what they know.
interesting thread - thanks Don't Worry and everyone else who posted.
In spite of needless detours, the purpose of this subforum as well as this thread in particular, is to provide current info on one of the most destructive cults of the scores which sprang from the bowels of dictor paul wierwille's malignant paranoid narcissism, and their latent love and "need" to keep Da Woid of Gawd and its inherent and inerrant accuracy alive in this our day, and time, and minute, and second, and every possible free use of social media possible. Guys like jally, wrenn, burton, macmullan, "Dr." Dale sides, "Rabbi" Michael Rood, "Rev" beence finnegan who stole not only all the property, money, and people from the way worldwide, but also sought legitimacy through Atlanta Bible College and that Anthony Buzzard fellow. He runs a fairly large "group of churches" in his Living Hope Ministries International. Nice try vinny, but all you've accomplished is elaborate new makeup on the same old pig.
This is the USA. We all have the freedom to believe whatever we want. However, if and when antisocial, racist, and xenophobic hatred behaviors are part of whatever you believe, and those behaviors reach beyond the doors of your own church and its membership, and harm or restrict or discriminate fellow-citizens, they will bear the burden of their behaviors, NOT their beliefs. Their behaviors and actions against others are subject to the same civil laws underpinning our society. That is why I post here. Information and fact about any of these offshoot cults of the way is what is necessary to protect our communities from their phoney love-bombing and spiritual ramma lamm. These are destructive mind-control cults. They are predators, sociopathic, psychoemotional terrorists. Exposure is their greatest fear.
So, getting back to to original purpose and this subforum and this thread, I ask you to read the first three posts and offer your opinions and/or counterpoint to the CONTENT, which btw, is largely quoted directly from the latest TLTF newsletter, and NOT what you may THINK or interpret is the "agenda" behind my posts here at the GSC, and especially this subforum. Thank you for your interest.
In spite of needless detours, the purpose of this subforum as well as this thread in particular, is to provide current info on one of the most destructive cults of the scores which sprang from the bowels of dictor paul wierwille's malignant paranoid narcissism, and their latent love and "need" to keep Da Woid of Gawd and its inherent and inerrant accuracy alive in this our day, and time, and minute, and second, and every possible free use of social media possible. Guys like jally, wrenn, burton, macmullan, "Dr." Dale sides, "Rabbi" Michael Rood, "Rev" beence finnegan who stole not only all the property, money, and people from the way worldwide, but also sought legitimacy through Atlanta Bible College and that Anthony Buzzard fellow. He runs a fairly large "group of churches" in his Living Hope Ministries International. Nice try vinny, but all you've accomplished is elaborate new makeup on the same old pig.
This is the USA. We all have the freedom to believe whatever we want. However, if and when antisocial, racist, and xenophobic hatred behaviors are part of whatever you believe, and those behaviors reach beyond the doors of your own church and its membership, and harm or restrict or discriminate fellow-citizens, they will bear the burden of their behaviors, NOT their beliefs. Their behaviors and actions against others are subject to the same civil laws underpinning our society. That is why I post here. Information and fact about any of these offshoot cults of the way is what is necessary to protect our communities from their phoney love-bombing and spiritual ramma lamm. These are destructive mind-control cults. They are predators, sociopathic, psychoemotional terrorists. Exposure is their greatest fear.
So, getting back to to original purpose and this subforum and this thread, I ask you to read the first three posts and offer your opinions and/or counterpoint to the CONTENT, which btw, is largely quoted directly from the latest TLTF newsletter, and NOT what you may THINK or interpret is the "agenda" behind my posts here at the GSC, and especially this subforum. Thank you for your interest.
Where and how would these guys begin to express their repentance for the wrongs that they've done? Assuming they wanted to? Would they do it here, open letter to their followers, how could it be accomplished? So many people were hurt. Is asking God and Jesus Christ for forgiveness enough? Thanks DWBH.
In spite of needless detours, the purpose of this subforum as well as this thread in particular, is to provide current info on one of the most destructive cults of the scores which sprang from the bowels of dictor paul wierwille's malignant paranoid narcissism, and their latent love and "need" to keep Da Woid of Gawd and its inherent and inerrant accuracy alive in this our day, and time, and minute, and second, and every possible free use of social media possible. Guys like jally, wrenn, burton, macmullan, "Dr." Dale sides, "Rabbi" Michael Rood, "Rev" beence finnegan who stole not only all the property, money, and people from the way worldwide, but also sought legitimacy through Atlanta Bible College and that Anthony Buzzard fellow. He runs a fairly large "group of churches" in his Living Hope Ministries International. Nice try vinny, but all you've accomplished is elaborate new makeup on the same old pig.
This is the USA. We all have the freedom to believe whatever we want. However, if and when antisocial, racist, and xenophobic hatred behaviors are part of whatever you believe, and those behaviors reach beyond the doors of your own church and its membership, and harm or restrict or discriminate fellow-citizens, they will bear the burden of their behaviors, NOT their beliefs. Their behaviors and actions against others are subject to the same civil laws underpinning our society. That is why I post here. Information and fact about any of these offshoot cults of the way is what is necessary to protect our communities from their phoney love-bombing and spiritual ramma lamm. These are destructive mind-control cults. They are predators, sociopathic, psychoemotional terrorists. Exposure is their greatest fear.
So, getting back to to original purpose and this subforum and this thread, I ask you to read the first three posts and offer your opinions and/or counterpoint to the CONTENT, which btw, is largely quoted directly from the latest TLTF newsletter, and NOT what you may THINK or interpret is the "agenda" behind my posts here at the GSC, and especially this subforum. Thank you for your interest.
Where and how would these guys begin to express their repentance for the wrongs that they've done? Assuming they wanted to? Would they do it here, open letter to their followers, how could it be accomplished? So many people were hurt. Is asking God and Jesus Christ for forgiveness enough? Thanks DWBH.
The very first place for them to start is by personally apologizing directly to each of their victims as Matt18, in the words of Jesus, teaches. As a matter of fact Matt 18 covers the entire spectrum of what they SHOULD DO as far as Jesus Christ is concerned. That part, personal apology, is private, not public. If there is no repentance one on one, the rest of Jesus' words tell us EXACTLY what to do and how to do it.
Remember, the 4 canonized gospels were written after all of Paul's contentious epistles had been passed around. I believe there is a reason for that. That is, Christ-focused Christianity, had been interpreted, ritualized, and institutionalized so much by the efforts of that former Pharisee of the Pharisees, Saul of Tarsus, that forms of worship, prayer, liturgical practices, Christianized rituals, church polity and structure became more important than the living relationship with God Jesus gave his life for in order to enable us to live that new lifestyle as a glory to God and His Son, our Savior. Pauline Christianity is helpful to many Christian churches and organizations of people. But it's focus is the topics aforementioned. The focus of the Gospels is to focus the disciples of Christ back on to the life and mission of Christ, whom Paul never met while Jesus was in His earthly body. The other Apostles, the original 12, all knew Jesus face-to-face, eyeball to eyeball for three years or so. They actually saw what he did and heard firsthand what he taught and said. JC is The Word in the flesh, incarnate Truth, and the true apex of all revelation given to humanity by the God of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob. He needs no explanation or interpretation. He needs disciples. He needs followers who will live His lifestyle, not Paul's, or Peter's or John's, or James'.........nor dictor paul, jallyroll, professor Von schoenheit, "rev" gerry wrenn, "rev" beence finnegan, "Dr." Dale Sides, "levitical rabbi" Michael rood, the busdriver geer, doug seed, Maurice goulet, wally manthey, Charlie quillen, Terry and Melanie Wilson, Doug "super secret double probation agent" macmullan, JPW and SOWERS, and another 20 or 30 offshoots of TWIt. Wierwille worshipping cults, all of them.
Forgiveness? Absolutely! AFTER genuine repentance Matt 18 style. Check it out...............peace.
I believe there is a reason for that. That is, Christ-focused Christianity, had been interpreted, ritualized, and institutionalized so much by the efforts of that former Pharisee of the Pharisees, Saul of Tarsus, that forms of worship, prayer, liturgical practices, Christianized rituals, church polity and structure became more important than the living relationship with God Jesus gave his life for in order to enable us to live that new lifestyle as a glory to God and His Son, our Savior. Pauline Christianity is helpful to many Christian churches and organizations of people. But it's focus is the topics aforementioned.
That's about as twisted and as perverted a perspective on Pauline Christology as anything I've heard or read in quite a while. Did you manage to siphon that off somebody else's writings or dream that up all on your own?
The focus of the Gospels is to focus the disciples of Christ back on to the life and mission of Christ, whom Paul never met while Jesus was in His earthly body.
Given that they were contemporaries (and probably quite close to the same age), I'd actually be surprised it they never met.
The other Apostles, the original 12, all knew Jesus face-to-face, eyeball to eyeball for three years or so.
I'm inclined to think it was much shorter (probably less than half that.)
And just how long do you suppose Paul was in Arabia after he fled Damascus?
In fact, why did he go to Arabia? Suppose it had nothing to do with Mt. Sinai being there?
And the "abundance of the revelations" Paul speaks of... well, that's just a myth in your mind, eh?
Not related at all to any personal communications with the ascended Christ during his stay in Arabia?
That's about as twisted and as perverted a perspective on Pauline Christology as anything I've heard or read in quite a while. Did you manage to siphon that off somebody else's writings or dream that up all on your own?
Were you intending to push emotional buttons with that accusation, or was it just incidental?
Do your own "research" and answer your own stoopeed questions OK? I have a rule....don't argue with crazy people, or TWIt-N-Vic apologists. Your fantastic ability to remain completely enthralled with your own status as a Wierwille sycophant is really boring. You ask questions.....well sort of.....they're so arrogant and opinionated and accusatory full of phoney red herring, ad hominem, and straw man logical fallacies, it's like a little boy constantly saying "I know I am, but what are you?"
No one here as any responsibility to prove anything to you. Who are you any way, Igatius Loyola? You spout off as if you know what you're talking about, yet every post just proves you don't. You come across as some early college division ding-don loyalist who is still bitter that your great abilities were never really respected. Maybe you were in the 5th corpse and were one of those mindless losers who wanted to be more than some robotic staff member. You're still happily stuck in dictor and ethelbert worship and their Pauline cults of hyperdispensationalist hooey. That's fine.....free country. But just because you decide, in spite of reams of evidence and facts proving how perverted TWIt-n-Vic were and are, does not validate any of your subjective prejudice for what YOU think really happened. Your idol dictor was a total package of sociopathic, malignant paranaoid narcissism along with serial rapist and longtime alcoholic. Yet, for you to still believe Wierwille that he was somehow "of God", is fine...FOR YOU and the rest of you knuckle-dragging sycophants. But, most of the rest of us here tell the other side of your made-up bible fantasies and your mighty drunken "man'o'gawd". You seem determined to carry on vic's perverted bible cult as if nothing ever happened but lambs and roses. I know, now you're going to whine about how I have no idea what you believe, when you left TWIt or why, how hurt you and your family were when you left.....if you ever really did. Then brag about how much about you we don't know. Nobody cares. You enjoy hijacking threads to your own satisfaction and overwhelming need for approval and validation from your faddah-in-da-Woid. You like casting aspersions at everyone who does not agree with your revisionist history of Vic-n-twit.
Quite a bit of pathological and criminal behavior took place which you choose to equivocate and avoid, diverting attention to your twisted versions of vic's ridiculous cult and how well you know all about it. Well, I don't buy your personally biased revisionism of Twit-n-Vic history and facts. Still stuck in your own delusions and your version/interpretation of really goofy "biblical research". Your right to believe whatever you want is not questioned. Stoopeed is as stoopeed does. Physician heal thyself. TTFN.
Well according to you, Wilbur, it appears that anyone here that differs with your "superior" understanding is afflicted with insanity, worships VPW, and/or (in the most lenient of your terms) is a "TWIt-N-Vic apologist." Which, in short, is reflective of some serious mental damage left behind by "TWIt-N-Vic" inside your own head.
And for the record, I didn't ask you to prove anything (especially not to me.) Maybe it's voices inside your head that made you think I did.
Trying once to more to return this TLC-derailed thread back to the purpose of examining and exposing the latest pseudo-intellectual "biblical research" and false teaching which takes place daily at STFI & TLTF. Please retread the first three posts on this thread and offer your comments and counterpoints.
I'm sorry for TLC's persistent attempts at hijacking and redirecting the purpose and point of this subforum and thread. I can't do anything about his lack of logic and maturity. Apparently neither can he. Thanks for your interest in what STFI/TLTF are up to these days. Cult awareness and exposure is necessary. Your opinions regarding TLTF & STFI, and other malignant offshoots of TWIt are welcome......pro or con.
Trying once to more to return this TLC-derailed thread back to the purpose of examining and exposing the latest pseudo-intellectual "biblical research" and false teaching which takes place daily at STFI & TLTF. Please retread the first three posts on this thread and offer your comments and counterpoints.
I'm sorry for TLC's persistent attempts at hijacking and redirecting the purpose and point of this subforum and thread. I can't do anything about his lack of logic and maturity. Apparently neither can he. Thanks for your interest in what STFI/TLTF are up to these days. Cult awareness and exposure is necessary. Your opinions regarding TLTF & STFI, and other malignant offshoots of TWIt are welcome......pro or con.
One of the things I see with some of the offshoots of twi are listed here by Jesus. Pride will make a person do some pretty hurtful things to people. It'll make them think they're right, when they're dead wrong. It'll make them hold on to things when they should let them go. They'll teach things for doctrine they shouldn't. Sadly it goes on.
Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
16 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!"[fn]
17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable.
18 So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,
19 "because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?"[fn]
20 And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
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So, to sum things up..... <sarcasm> There's nothing I'd rather do than go sit through multiple hours of an Animatronics version of Don Knotts teaching Jesus Christ - DOA and send him m
Raf
I am a reporter. I cover criminal trials. I cover a lot of criminal trials. I probably know more about the law regarding crime than you do. However, if you were arrested, and I tried to represent you
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TLC
Simply put, had DWBH (in post #17) left it alone after asking the first three questions (i.e., his first paragraph), I would have interpreted the challenge to be genuine. However, after reading the rest of the post, it left me doubting the sincerity of the inquiry. Which, for better or for worse, stirred me to say so (...though, evidently in a more sarcastic or snarky manner than may have been necessary or appropriate.)
My apologies.
Quite frankly, of all of you I might be (probably am) the most unfamiliar with what TLTF did and/or does teach or believe, so unless something started here moves over to the doctrinal forums, I'll refrain from further comment.
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Twinky
Apologies, it looked right when I posted it but re-reading makes it less than logical.
Thanks, Modcat.
It did feel like I was about to become victim to some of DWBH's ire. I don't like the way he shouts and calls people names; he knows this. Anger at some of he higher-ups I can understand; anger at other posters is out of order.
If people shout, I just smile and back off... don't re-engage. I have to say, I'm getting really fed up with the bickering here at the Cafe. Maybe I will just back off... for a long while... I only stay because I hope that a calm and rational voice might be appreciated by some.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Bye Twinky. Sorry you feel the way you do. I answered you honestly and politely. As I've said to you before......don't like my style, ignore me. I'm happy to do the same for you if you desire. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. I have stated. Just think of me as the Gordon Ramsay if the kitchen here at the cafe. Maybe that will help you think of my style a little less opinionated. Peace.
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TLC
Then should WW be thought of as Steven Seagal with a knife?
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DontWorryBeHappy
Any one want to make an effort to return to the original purpose of starting this thread in the subforum "Spirit and Truth Fellowship" and posting opinions and/or counterpoints? Opinions as to the content of what I quoted in the opening posts on this thread from TLTF's most recent rehashed TWIt-n-Vic tripe? That was, after all, the purpose of the opening series of posts here prior to various detours unrelated to the opening series of posts and the topic. That seems to me to be the purpose of this subform. TY.
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Raf
I'm not opposed to the notion of developing classes, but I am opposed to the notion of charging for them unless the recipient is getting something tangible in return or it's clear that we're paying for rented space. Or both.
From my understanding of CES and, later, STFI, those who paid for the classes actually GOT the class. The whole set of tapes/CD's. That's fair. You're selling a product.
But in the case of TWI and its offshoots, it really seems to me that these classes are less about teaching than they are about cultic-socialization and indoctrination. And yes, there's a difference. Teaching develops critical thinking skills. Indoctrination does not. TWI talked a good game when it came to critical thinking, but it was manipulated to the point that what we were actually taught and encouraged to do was parrot what the organization wanted us to think and say.
Without exception, all of these "foundational classes," from PFAL to WAP to Whatever-the-devil-they're-calling-this, do not seek to teach as much as they seek to encourage group cohesion. Here's what to say. Here's how to say it. Here's what to think. Here's how to think it. Without exception, they all begin with their conclusion, and encourage us to disregard anything that challenges that conclusion.
What's the greatest secret in the world today? The Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God.
Really? That's the greatest secret in the world? Because if so, it's poorly kept. Lots of people believe that, whether they phrase it that way or not. Cures for cancer, ALS, autism, amputee regeneration? Not as secret as something believed by millions. Nonsense.
And along with being the word and will of God, it's perfect! One preposition out of place and your Bible would fall to pieces (until a preposition is shown to be out of place. Then you're nitpicking). In any other field, if you start with your conclusion and discard anything that conflicts with it, you're an intellectual fraud. But when it comes to the Bible, you're steadfast!
I attended a church in South Florida that never seemed to see a need to "run classes." If they wanted to start a class, they just started teaching on the subject every Sunday. Keep coming to church, and you've got the whole class. Yes, they recorded it, so if you wanted to see it all again, you could buy it later. But if you want to find the class from five years ago? Yeah, good luck with that.
It shouldn't be about the classes. Ever. It should be about the content, which should be shared constantly.
Anyway, good luck with this class, JALynn. I'm sure it will be an improvement over the last one, but not over the next one.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Thanks for that well-thought-out articulate post, Raf. Interesting and thought provoking.
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T-Bone
Great post with great points, Raf !
after finishing PFAL for the first time i remember thinking why don't they get this stuff out to the churches ASAP - forget about making church folks sit through a long class - just have grads share what they know.
interesting thread - thanks Don't Worry and everyone else who posted.
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DontWorryBeHappy
In spite of needless detours, the purpose of this subforum as well as this thread in particular, is to provide current info on one of the most destructive cults of the scores which sprang from the bowels of dictor paul wierwille's malignant paranoid narcissism, and their latent love and "need" to keep Da Woid of Gawd and its inherent and inerrant accuracy alive in this our day, and time, and minute, and second, and every possible free use of social media possible. Guys like jally, wrenn, burton, macmullan, "Dr." Dale sides, "Rabbi" Michael Rood, "Rev" beence finnegan who stole not only all the property, money, and people from the way worldwide, but also sought legitimacy through Atlanta Bible College and that Anthony Buzzard fellow. He runs a fairly large "group of churches" in his Living Hope Ministries International. Nice try vinny, but all you've accomplished is elaborate new makeup on the same old pig.
This is the USA. We all have the freedom to believe whatever we want. However, if and when antisocial, racist, and xenophobic hatred behaviors are part of whatever you believe, and those behaviors reach beyond the doors of your own church and its membership, and harm or restrict or discriminate fellow-citizens, they will bear the burden of their behaviors, NOT their beliefs. Their behaviors and actions against others are subject to the same civil laws underpinning our society. That is why I post here. Information and fact about any of these offshoot cults of the way is what is necessary to protect our communities from their phoney love-bombing and spiritual ramma lamm. These are destructive mind-control cults. They are predators, sociopathic, psychoemotional terrorists. Exposure is their greatest fear.
So, getting back to to original purpose and this subforum and this thread, I ask you to read the first three posts and offer your opinions and/or counterpoint to the CONTENT, which btw, is largely quoted directly from the latest TLTF newsletter, and NOT what you may THINK or interpret is the "agenda" behind my posts here at the GSC, and especially this subforum. Thank you for your interest.
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JayDee
Where and how would these guys begin to express their repentance for the wrongs that they've done? Assuming they wanted to? Would they do it here, open letter to their followers, how could it be accomplished? So many people were hurt. Is asking God and Jesus Christ for forgiveness enough? Thanks DWBH.
Where and how would these guys begin to express their repentance for the wrongs that they've done? Assuming they wanted to? Would they do it here, open letter to their followers, how could it be accomplished? So many people were hurt. Is asking God and Jesus Christ for forgiveness enough? Thanks DWBH.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi JayDee!
The very first place for them to start is by personally apologizing directly to each of their victims as Matt18, in the words of Jesus, teaches. As a matter of fact Matt 18 covers the entire spectrum of what they SHOULD DO as far as Jesus Christ is concerned. That part, personal apology, is private, not public. If there is no repentance one on one, the rest of Jesus' words tell us EXACTLY what to do and how to do it.
Remember, the 4 canonized gospels were written after all of Paul's contentious epistles had been passed around. I believe there is a reason for that. That is, Christ-focused Christianity, had been interpreted, ritualized, and institutionalized so much by the efforts of that former Pharisee of the Pharisees, Saul of Tarsus, that forms of worship, prayer, liturgical practices, Christianized rituals, church polity and structure became more important than the living relationship with God Jesus gave his life for in order to enable us to live that new lifestyle as a glory to God and His Son, our Savior. Pauline Christianity is helpful to many Christian churches and organizations of people. But it's focus is the topics aforementioned. The focus of the Gospels is to focus the disciples of Christ back on to the life and mission of Christ, whom Paul never met while Jesus was in His earthly body. The other Apostles, the original 12, all knew Jesus face-to-face, eyeball to eyeball for three years or so. They actually saw what he did and heard firsthand what he taught and said. JC is The Word in the flesh, incarnate Truth, and the true apex of all revelation given to humanity by the God of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, and Jacob. He needs no explanation or interpretation. He needs disciples. He needs followers who will live His lifestyle, not Paul's, or Peter's or John's, or James'.........nor dictor paul, jallyroll, professor Von schoenheit, "rev" gerry wrenn, "rev" beence finnegan, "Dr." Dale Sides, "levitical rabbi" Michael rood, the busdriver geer, doug seed, Maurice goulet, wally manthey, Charlie quillen, Terry and Melanie Wilson, Doug "super secret double probation agent" macmullan, JPW and SOWERS, and another 20 or 30 offshoots of TWIt. Wierwille worshipping cults, all of them.
Forgiveness? Absolutely! AFTER genuine repentance Matt 18 style. Check it out...............peace.
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JayDee
That's exactly what I was looking for DWBH! Much appreciated!
Sorry about the double post. Still trying to sort things out here.
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waysider
A guy went to the doctor and said, "Doc, it hurts like crazy when I bang my head against the wall. What should I do?"
The doctor said, "Well, for starters, you should stop banging your head against the wall."
Maybe they should start the process by no longer "banging their heads (and everyone else's) against the wall."
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DontWorryBeHappy
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TLC
That's about as twisted and as perverted a perspective on Pauline Christology as anything I've heard or read in quite a while. Did you manage to siphon that off somebody else's writings or dream that up all on your own?
Given that they were contemporaries (and probably quite close to the same age), I'd actually be surprised it they never met.
I'm inclined to think it was much shorter (probably less than half that.)
And just how long do you suppose Paul was in Arabia after he fled Damascus?
In fact, why did he go to Arabia? Suppose it had nothing to do with Mt. Sinai being there?
And the "abundance of the revelations" Paul speaks of... well, that's just a myth in your mind, eh?
Not related at all to any personal communications with the ascended Christ during his stay in Arabia?
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Rocky
Were you intending to push emotional buttons with that accusation, or was it just incidental?
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DontWorryBeHappy
Yo! TLC......
Do your own "research" and answer your own stoopeed questions OK? I have a rule....don't argue with crazy people, or TWIt-N-Vic apologists. Your fantastic ability to remain completely enthralled with your own status as a Wierwille sycophant is really boring. You ask questions.....well sort of.....they're so arrogant and opinionated and accusatory full of phoney red herring, ad hominem, and straw man logical fallacies, it's like a little boy constantly saying "I know I am, but what are you?"
No one here as any responsibility to prove anything to you. Who are you any way, Igatius Loyola? You spout off as if you know what you're talking about, yet every post just proves you don't. You come across as some early college division ding-don loyalist who is still bitter that your great abilities were never really respected. Maybe you were in the 5th corpse and were one of those mindless losers who wanted to be more than some robotic staff member. You're still happily stuck in dictor and ethelbert worship and their Pauline cults of hyperdispensationalist hooey. That's fine.....free country. But just because you decide, in spite of reams of evidence and facts proving how perverted TWIt-n-Vic were and are, does not validate any of your subjective prejudice for what YOU think really happened. Your idol dictor was a total package of sociopathic, malignant paranaoid narcissism along with serial rapist and longtime alcoholic. Yet, for you to still believe Wierwille that he was somehow "of God", is fine...FOR YOU and the rest of you knuckle-dragging sycophants. But, most of the rest of us here tell the other side of your made-up bible fantasies and your mighty drunken "man'o'gawd". You seem determined to carry on vic's perverted bible cult as if nothing ever happened but lambs and roses. I know, now you're going to whine about how I have no idea what you believe, when you left TWIt or why, how hurt you and your family were when you left.....if you ever really did. Then brag about how much about you we don't know. Nobody cares. You enjoy hijacking threads to your own satisfaction and overwhelming need for approval and validation from your faddah-in-da-Woid. You like casting aspersions at everyone who does not agree with your revisionist history of Vic-n-twit.
Quite a bit of pathological and criminal behavior took place which you choose to equivocate and avoid, diverting attention to your twisted versions of vic's ridiculous cult and how well you know all about it. Well, I don't buy your personally biased revisionism of Twit-n-Vic history and facts. Still stuck in your own delusions and your version/interpretation of really goofy "biblical research". Your right to believe whatever you want is not questioned. Stoopeed is as stoopeed does. Physician heal thyself. TTFN.
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TLC
Well according to you, Wilbur, it appears that anyone here that differs with your "superior" understanding is afflicted with insanity, worships VPW, and/or (in the most lenient of your terms) is a "TWIt-N-Vic apologist." Which, in short, is reflective of some serious mental damage left behind by "TWIt-N-Vic" inside your own head.
And for the record, I didn't ask you to prove anything (especially not to me.) Maybe it's voices inside your head that made you think I did.
edited: for grammar
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Raf
Y'all on doctrinal turf.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Like I said, I don't waste time arguing with crazy people or TWIt-n-Vic apologists.
Accept your personal and doctrinal failures and try to move ahead without embarrassing yourself. TTFG.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Trying once to more to return this TLC-derailed thread back to the purpose of examining and exposing the latest pseudo-intellectual "biblical research" and false teaching which takes place daily at STFI & TLTF. Please retread the first three posts on this thread and offer your comments and counterpoints.
I'm sorry for TLC's persistent attempts at hijacking and redirecting the purpose and point of this subforum and thread. I can't do anything about his lack of logic and maturity. Apparently neither can he. Thanks for your interest in what STFI/TLTF are up to these days. Cult awareness and exposure is necessary. Your opinions regarding TLTF & STFI, and other malignant offshoots of TWIt are welcome......pro or con.
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JayDee
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JayDee
One of the things I see with some of the offshoots of twi are listed here by Jesus. Pride will make a person do some pretty hurtful things to people. It'll make them think they're right, when they're dead wrong. It'll make them hold on to things when they should let them go. They'll teach things for doctrine they shouldn't. Sadly it goes on.
Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
16 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!"[fn]
17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable.
18 So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,
19 "because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?"[fn]
20 And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 "thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
23 "All these evil things come from within and defile a man."
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DontWorryBeHappy
Jesus Christ spoke truth always because HE indeed, was the word of God incarnate. That's my opinion. Thank you for expressing your's JayDee.
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