Evidence: Letters VPW wrote to the Way Corps

[Bolshevik]

. . .

"Everybody" was an expert on what was "really" going on. Ministry was never the same after that.

. . .

Now we see the importance of interpreting all information through a singular source. Lesson learned.

[penworks]

OK, I'll chime in. Of all the letters I've read, one really stands out. The one dated Oct. 20, 1978. It concerns 3 men who started in residence in the 8th WC, were assigned to do research, and wandered off the reservation. I'll spare you my take on it, but I can't help but wonder...these 3 men really seem like "your kind of people". Their conclusions would fit in fine with most of you. Where are they now? Are any of them here?

The 3 men are Peter Bernegger, John Fanning, and Marty McRae. The letter is 6 pages long. Oh, and it's upside down. I had to invert the monitor of my computer to read it. All the other letters are right side up. I was able to print the letter. I couldn't help comparing this letter with Passing of a Patriarch. The last paragraph of the letter (summary and conclusion, lol) is very telling. After making his case against the men, VP admonishes..."Hide this whole affair in your learning heart and do not speak to others about it, not even Corps. Close the lid and throw the key away."

This was heeded. I never heard anything about this. I remember Peter Bernegger had an article in the way mag about the Christmas star and I always wondered why I never heard his name after that, but as a non corps, I felt as informed as anyone about ministry stuff like that. I never had any hint that something like this had happened.

That situation easily had just as much potential to break up the ministry as POP did, but it was never leaked. POP was definitely leaked. I know that POP was read to somebody in April of 1986. I understand only 12 or so people were intended to hear it, but it was leaked. I went to ROA in 86. 20,000 people there, seemed like fellowship as usual, then less than 1 month after that I was on a date and the girl told me that someone had reproved the BOT. Sounded disturbing. Couple weeks after that there's a meeting. Limb leader was there. Damage control. Confusion. "Everybody" was an expert on what was "really" going on. Ministry was never the same after that.

If someone had leaked the 6 page letter back in 78 the same thing could've happened. Anybody remember the letter? The situation? Just curious.

Yes, I remember that letter. Initially, it frightened me into remaining loyal to TWI. I still have that letter today, as well as many others from VPW, since I was a Second Corps grad (graduated in 1973).

Perhaps if the letter had been more widely known, more people would have left TWI back then, but who knows?

I knew of those three men. I was on the biblical research team at HQ 1984 - 1986. After escaping HQ in 1987, I began the long journey of writing my story. I quote that letter in my memoir: Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International.

Target publication date: January 2017.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Regarding the "where are they now" question:

Dr. Peter Bernegger is a professor of Astrophysics, Dr. John Fanning is a counseling psychologist, and Dr. Marty McRae is a professor of Semitic Languages. Dr. McRae used to post here as one of our favorites, Orange Cat. Not really a "Dr.", Dictor Paul Wierwille died in May, 1985 of ocular melanoma with metastatic liver disease. The fruit of their personal and professional integrity and honesty is quite evident. As is the fruit in the not-a-real-doctor, malignant paranoid narcissist whose goofy minustray of serial sexual assault and drunken neo-Nazi aryan supremacy, along with a proud racist, Christian bigotry got him rotted from the inside at the age of 69. Hearty congrats to the former three! Hearty good riddance to the latter.

[waysider]

Let it never be said again that no one confronted V.PeePee with the errors of his methods.

edit: Did I mention he wasn't really a Dr.?

Edited July 17, 2016 by waysider

[TLC]

I'll spare you my take on it, but I can't help but wonder...these 3 men really seem like "your kind of people".

If by that you mean and intend to include them in the category of inflated egotism par excellence (that the WC program was so well geared towards and reputed for)... yeah. Because anyone that thought of and referred to themselves as "the brain trust" of TWI were certainly no exception to that.

Edited July 17, 2016 by TLC

[Rocky]

OK, I'll chime in. Of all the letters I've read, one really stands out. The one dated Oct. 20, 1978. It concerns 3 men who started in residence in the 8th WC, were assigned to do research, and wandered off the reservation. I'll spare you my take on it, but I can't help but wonder...these 3 men really seem like "your kind of people". Their conclusions would fit in fine with most of you. Where are they now? Are any of them here?

The 3 men are Peter Bernegger, John Fanning, and Marty McRae. The letter is 6 pages long. Oh, and it's upside down. I had to invert the monitor of my computer to read it. All the other letters are right side up. I was able to print the letter. I couldn't help comparing this letter with Passing of a Patriarch. The last paragraph of the letter (summary and conclusion, lol) is very telling. After making his case against the men, VP admonishes..."Hide this whole affair in your learning heart and do not speak to others about it, not even Corps. Close the lid and throw the key away."

This was heeded. I never heard anything about this. I remember Peter Bernegger had an article in the way mag about the Christmas star and I always wondered why I never heard his name after that, but as a non corps, I felt as informed as anyone about ministry stuff like that. I never had any hint that something like this had happened.

That situation easily had just as much potential to break up the ministry as POP did, but it was never leaked. POP was definitely leaked. I know that POP was read to somebody in April of 1986. I understand only 12 or so people were intended to hear it, but it was leaked. I went to ROA in 86. 20,000 people there, seemed like fellowship as usual, then less than 1 month after that I was on a date and the girl told me that someone had reproved the BOT. Sounded disturbing. Couple weeks after that there's a meeting. Limb leader was there. Damage control. Confusion. "Everybody" was an expert on what was "really" going on. Ministry was never the same after that.

If someone had leaked the 6 page letter back in 78 the same thing could've happened. Anybody remember the letter? The situation? Just curious.

What DO you mean by "these men really seem like 'your kind of people?'"

If by that you mean and intend to include them in the category of inflated egotism par excellence (that the WC program was so well geared towards and reputed for)... yeah. Because anyone that thought of and referred to themselves as "the brain trust" of TWI were certainly no exception to that.

Hey TLC... your comment seems more like an assumption than a request for clarification. Is that what you meant to do?

[johniam]

Most people here act like GSC - GOOD! VPW - BAD. I concluded that those guys would fit in well here after reading the letter. Sounds like the quotes VP included in the letter represented their position accurately. So what?

Edited July 17, 2016 by johniam

[waysider]

Most people here act like GSC - GOOD! VPW - BAD. I concluded that those guys would fit in well here after reading the letter. Sounds like the quotes VP included in the letter represented their position accurately. So what?

Seriously? Read the letter again, John. It's the rambling of an egotistic, self serving, delusional maniac. Please notice I didn't say it's "like" the rambling of an egotistic, self serving, delusional maniac . It clearly IS the rambling of an egotistic, self serving, delusional maniac.

All that whining about how he (VP) can almost instantly tell if something is on the word or not because he's sacrificed so much to get to where he's at. Makes me want to gag. He pulls out the old "possessed" card, as expected, and never considers himself to be the problem.

From the way the letter begins, it appears to me they had just called him out for shoddy workmanship and it infuriated him. How DARE they! (snark)

Edited July 17, 2016 by waysider

[johniam]

You're going to see what you want to see no matter what is actually said or written.

[waysider]

You're going to see what you want to see no matter what is actually said or written.

That's why I suggested you give it a closer look, John. Look carefully at what is "actually said or written". Read it as if you were someone who knew nothing about The Way. Maybe that will open your eyes..... But, I doubt it.

[skyrider]

Anybody remember the letter? The situation? Just curious.

Here is what I remember.....

When I arrived at Emporia Campus to attend the 1978 advanced class, I was designated as a Branch Coordinator.

Within 2 hours, the branch coordinators were to have their first meeting to be given our marching orders....

er, instructions. Wierwille and Martindale were at this meeting......and within 20 minutes wierwille referenced

these three 8th corps men and how they'd gone rogue and "had devil spirits."

Yep, ole wierwille gave us HIS version of a situation that had NOTHING to do with us. What the hell was he doing?

Well......1)Do what you're told, 2)Do not stray from twi-doctrine, or 3)You, too, will get possessed. Same ole

intimidation/manipulation confrontation based on FEAR TACTICS.

What were "your kind of people?" Well.....I see them as exemplifying critical thinking.

They WERE doing Biblical RESEARCH to uncover deeper truths and/or expose wierwille's slipshod plagiarism.

Obviously, wierwille was trying to discredit these men and it chapped his a$$ to be challenged head-on.

Clearly, veepee was fuming about this and in October, three months later, wrote this long letter to corps

and instructed corps not to tell others. Yet, wierwille had ALREADY violated his own instructions....as

he had already told us advanced class students [branch coordinators].

[johniam]

Ironic that this time it was Waysider who took the thread off topic. What I posted was relative to the topic and I didn't even dispute the premise that VPs thinking was twisted, but, one by one, you guys want to make this thread about me. Whatever.

[mod note: Nothing Waysider said was remotely off topic. He appeared to be trying to persuade johniam to look at the material from a different perspective. That's the definition of being on-topic]

Edited July 29, 2016 by modcat5

[waysider]

Ironic that this time it was Waysider who took the thread off topic. What I posted was relative to the topic and I didn't even dispute the premise that VPs thinking was twisted, but, one by one, you guys want to make this thread about me. Whatever.

Oh, really? In post # 50 you said:

"I'll spare you my take on it, but I can't help but wonder...these 3 men really seem like "your kind of people". Their conclusions would fit in fine with most of you. Where are they now? Are any of them here?"

This implies a contrast. You're contrasting your "kind" with our "kind" and our conclusions with your conclusion. There is no indication in this that you think VP's thinking was twisted. But, that's OK, go ahead and say it now if it will make you feel better. You move your lips. You move your tongue. You know the drill.

Edited July 18, 2016 by waysider

[penworks]

Here is what I remember.....

When I arrived at Emporia Campus to attend the 1978 advanced class, I was designated as a Branch Coordinator.

Within 2 hours, the branch coordinators were to have their first meeting to be given our marching orders....

er, instructions. Wierwille and Martindale were at this meeting......and within 20 minutes wierwille referenced

these three 8th corps men and how they'd gone rogue and "had devil spirits."

Yep, ole wierwille gave us HIS version of a situation that had NOTHING to do with us. What the hell was he doing?

Well......1)Do what you're told, 2)Do not stray from twi-doctrine, or 3)You, too, will get possessed. Same ole

intimidation/manipulation confrontation based on FEAR TACTICS.

What were "your kind of people?" Well.....I see them as exemplifying critical thinking.

They WERE doing Biblical RESEARCH to uncover deeper truths and/or expose wierwille's slipshod plagiarism.

Obviously, wierwille was trying to discredit these men and it chapped his a$ to be challenged head-on.

Clearly, veepee was fuming about this and in October, three months later, wrote this long letter to corps

and instructed corps not to tell others. Yet, wierwille had ALREADY violated his own instructions....as

he had already told us advanced class students [branch coordinators].

Well put.

Wierwille had his own idea of what "doing biblical research" meant (including plagiarism, which is stealing), and it was different than how people in academia defined it. A clash was bound to happen. It did. Many times.

In fact, it had happened long before this incident. Other people had left TWI before this because of uncovering VP's plagiarism, narrow-mindedness, etc. etc. I can't cite names due to privacy issues, but I can tell you they exist. Some were in the Corps, some were not.

Edited July 18, 2016 by penworks

[skyrider]

October 20, 1978 --- Wierwille's closing paragraph in this corps letter

"Hide this whole affair in your 'learning heart' and do not speak to others about it, not even

Corps. Close the lid and throw the key away. I have not until this release, spoken or written

anything about these three. I am sorry I had to follow this procedure. They talked too much

and were not honest. It needed to be done."

Sorrowfully yours,

Victor Paul Wierwille

```````````````````````````````````````````

Well.....wierwille did INDEED talk about these three men before this corps letter.

As noted above, I was an advanced class student and branch coordinator of branch #19

when wierwille spewed the cliff-note version of these 8th corps men.

When I step back to think about that meeting, wierwille was tense, abrupt and confrontational.

This "8th corps situation" was the backdrop for the 1978 Advanced Class and wierwille had this

contentious pot on the back burner of his mind the whole class. In hindsight, it is clear to

see that wierwille was stewing over this for months and, three months later, wrote the corps.

Once again, ANOTHER corps letter of wierwille lamenting that corps were leaving him.

That WAS the general theme in all these corps letters during this period......lamenting

the fact that corps were exiting twi/corps and moving on with their lives.

And now......what has become of those who were "standing with wierwille" to confront

these three 8th corps men, Craig Martindale, Walter Cummins, Gary Curtis, John Crouch?

ALL OF THESE WISE COUNSELORS AND RESEARCH/LANGUAGE EXPERTS HAVE EXITED TWI.

From all that we've uncovered and discussed on GSC......these three 8th corps men

were clearly justified in confronting wierwille and walking away to establish

credibility and wholesome lives elsewhere. Good for them. Bravo.

[TLC]

If by that you mean and intend to include them in the category of inflated egotism par excellence (that the WC program was so well geared towards and reputed for)... yeah. Because anyone that thought of and referred to themselves as "the brain trust" of TWI were certainly no exception to that.

Hey TLC... your comment seems more like an assumption than a request for clarification. Is that what you meant to do?

It wasn't so much what I'd think of or call an assumption, but rather, to point out the arrogance built, bred, and/or inherent within WC. Maybe big fat egos were just part of that "natural" talent or ability that you were supposed to have when applying for WC. But whatever the cause or reason for it, these 3 had it in spades. They weren't alone (by any stretch of the imagination)... so, I was merely stating that IF that were the reason or basis for johniam to say they were "your kind of people," I wasn't going to disagree. (Of course, if that isn't his reason or basis for saying that, he's free to say otherwise. It's simply the first and most prominent characteristic that came to my mind when reflecting on that whole "brain trust" situation ...)

Edited July 18, 2016 by TLC

[TLC]

From all that we've uncovered and discussed on GSC......these three 8th corps men

were clearly justified in confronting wierwille and walking away to establish

credibility and wholesome lives elsewhere. Good for them. Bravo.

Well, you (and who knows who else here) probably ain't going to like this, but if it's true that they first went to those around them with their contradictory research findings before taking them to VP (whether they did or didn't, I don't know), which of you wouldn't also be rather upset if you were in his shoes? You'd still say, "Good for them. Bravo." Seriously?

(And no one has mentioned yet anything about this great "research" they did uncovered and/or taught others. I guess that don't matter one whit. They MUST have been right, given how wrong VP was on everything else...)

[skyrider]

Well, you (and who knows who else here) probably ain't going to like this, but if it's true that they first went to those around them with their contradictory research findings before taking them to VP (whether they did or didn't, I don't know), which of you wouldn't also be rather upset if you were in his shoes? You'd still say, "Good for them. Bravo." Seriously?

(And no one has mentioned yet anything about this great "research" they did uncovered and/or taught others. I guess that don't matter one whit. They MUST have been right, given how wrong VP was on everything else...)

Well.....what I DO know is that wierwille lied.

He stated in that October 20, 1978 corps letter that he had "not spoken or written"

about these three 8th corps men until this corps letter. That was a lie.

I heard wierwille's version, sharp tone and saying that they "had devil spirits."

Yeah, right.......

Are portions of this corps letter full of lies?

When a liar lies.....does he write factual truths?

[Rocky]

It wasn't so much what I'd think of or call an assumption, but rather, to point out the arrogance built, bred, and/or inherent within WC. Maybe big fat egos were just part of that "natural" talent or ability that you were supposed to have when applying for WC. But whatever the cause or reason for it, these 3 had it in spades. They weren't alone (by any stretch of the imagination)... so, I was merely stating that IF that were the reason or basis for johniam to say they were "your kind of people," I wasn't going to disagree. (Of course, if that isn't his reason or basis for saying that, he's free to say otherwise. It's simply the first and most prominent characteristic that came to my mind when reflecting on that whole "brain trust" situation ...)

In other words, you assumed. You declared what you interpreted from johniam's post/comment and now say that if you were wrong, it was up to him to say so.

Maybe that's true... maybe it was up to him to correct you. But is it really intellectually honest to concoct a scenario based on your assumption of his meaning... rather than asking him for clarification?

[TLC]

In other words, you assumed. You declared what you interpreted from johniam's post/comment and now say that if you were wrong, it was up to him to say so.

Maybe that's true... maybe it was up to him to correct you. But is it really intellectually honest to concoct a scenario based on your assumption of his meaning... rather than asking him for clarification?

Perhaps if you took the effort to honestly try to understand what I said you wouldn't act or speak so condescendingly.

[waysider]

It wasn't so much what I'd think of or call an assumption, but rather, to point out the arrogance built, bred, and/or inherent within WC. Maybe big fat egos were just part of that "natural" talent or ability that you were supposed to have when applying for WC. But whatever the cause or reason for it, these 3 had it in spades. They weren't alone (by any stretch of the imagination)... so, I was merely stating that IF that were the reason or basis for johniam to say they were "your kind of people," I wasn't going to disagree. (Of course, if that isn't his reason or basis for saying that, he's free to say otherwise. It's simply the first and most prominent characteristic that came to my mind when reflecting on that whole "brain trust" situation ...)

John was not referring to enlarged egos when he said "your kind of people". He was referring to his refusal to tarnish the image of VPW and our drawing attention to things that have been hidden from many past and present TWI members. It seems to ire him to see people refusing to exalt VPW and his "teachings". This has clearly been John's modus operandi at GSC for the past decade and a half that he has been posting here. It appears to be impossible for him to consider that he, too, was scammed, just like the rest of us.

You're free to correct me if i'm wrong about that, John.

(We pause now for the ensuing straw man argument and meta discussion that John typically uses to drive the discussion off course.)

edit; bad grammar, double negative.

Edited July 18, 2016 by waysider

[skyrider]

He said, you assumed, he said, you implied......and the topic is dragged into Johniam's backyard. ppffftt.

This topic.... Evidence: Letters VPW wrote to the Way Corps

and subtitle.. VPW's letters reveal his twisted thinking

For me, these letters validate wierwille's manipulative, deceptive and guilt techniques

to keep the corps' allegiance. How many times does he lament those who are leaving the fold?

How does wierwille not realize that corps NEED to pay their bills? develop careers? help

their spouse and/or children?

Gawd, these letters just sound like he's writing letters in a time-capsule.....to corps

who go forth to witness, build the ministry and work at a fast-food joint. You know,

you've "got the word" and money will be put on your doorstep every Friday to pay the bills.

YET......wierwille was on Church Payroll UNTIL AUGUST 7, 1957.

After he and dorothy eloped, and she kept working while he finished seminary.....wierwille

quickly went on church payroll with parsonage package for 16 years as they took on

their first menial congregation in Payne, Ohio and then, in Van Wert.

These letters are like robo-donate-your-time-and-resources TO BUILD THE VP-MINISTRY.

No thought, no empathy for the needs of the corps......just a series of guilt tactics.

This compilation of letters give insight to all non-corps "the wierwille mystique" that

was vaunted by staffers, corps and insiders. You want to know the deeper secrets that

wierwille is teaching the corps......then, you've got to GO CORPS. pppfffftt.

And, here I got a front row seat in one of wierwille's private meetings BEFORE going in-residence

and wierwille stated unequivocally that these three 8th corps men "had devil spirits."

Same ole, same ole generic slanderings that wierwille used when leaders over and over again....

yet when did wierwille ever actually encounter or cast out a devil spirit?

[Rocky]

Perhaps if you took the effort to honestly try to understand what I said you wouldn't act or speak so condescendingly.

Is that a request for clarification? ;)

He said, you assumed, he said, you implied......and the topic is dragged into Johniam's backyard. ppffftt.

This topic.... Evidence: Letters VPW wrote to the Way Corps

and subtitle.. VPW's letters reveal his twisted thinking

For me, these letters validate wierwille's manipulative, deceptive and guilt techniques

to keep the corps' allegiance. How many times does he lament those who are leaving the fold?

How does wierwille not realize that corps NEED to pay their bills? develop careers? help

their spouse and/or children?

Gawd, these letters just sound like he's writing letters in a time-capsule.....to corps

who go forth to witness, build the ministry and work at a fast-food joint. You know,

you've "got the word" and money will be put on your doorstep every Friday to pay the bills.

YET......wierwille was on Church Payroll UNTIL AUGUST 7, 1957.

After he and dorothy eloped, and she kept working while he finished seminary.....wierwille

quickly went on church payroll with parsonage package for 16 years as they took on

their first menial congregation in Payne, Ohio and then, in Van Wert.

These letters are like robo-donate-your-time-and-resources TO BUILD THE VP-MINISTRY.

No thought, no empathy for the needs of the corps......just a series of guilt tactics.

This compilation of letters give insight to all non-corps "the wierwille mystique" that

was vaunted by staffers, corps and insiders. You want to know the deeper secrets that

wierwille is teaching the corps......then, you've got to GO CORPS. pppfffftt.

And, here I got a front row seat in one of wierwille's private meetings BEFORE going in-residence

and wierwille stated unequivocally that these three 8th corps men "had devil spirits."

Same ole, same ole generic slanderings that wierwille used when leaders over and over again....

yet when did wierwille ever actually encounter or cast out a devil spirit?

Thanks for refocusing the discussion. :)

[johniam]

You don't want to go in my backyard now. Storm knocked a large tree branch into the apex of my garage. Waiting for someone to repair it.

Again, when I posted this, I was curious about how this letter affected WC. I even wonder what Researchgeek and Catcup thought of it. They are research people themselves. They HAD to be privy to this. But, thanks to a few individuals, I could not possibly add any more drama to this than has already been submitted. (Penworks herself responded to my post and didn't seem to infer any evil ulterior motive from it) No, I don't believe that VPs thinking was twisted, but I wasn't going to go there in the name of staying on topic.

'Your kind of people' means that most people here don't value VP. While I still do, you have a right to your opinion.

John was not referring to enlarged egos when he said "your kind of people". He was referring to his refusal to tarnish the image of VPW and our drawing attention to things that have been hidden from many past and present TWI members. It seems to ire him to see people refusing to exalt VPW and his "teachings". This has clearly been John's modus operandi at GSC for the past decade and a half that he has been posting here. It appears to be impossible for him to consider that he, too, was scammed, just like the rest of us.

Sounds pretty self righteous. So, in your holier than thou opinion, anybody who chooses something different than you on this, is incapable of evaluating the information properly. Whatever.

Just for the record, I believe that the adversary used these three men in an attempt to 'sow discord among brethren'. It failed because VP wrote that letter and it was heeded. As for the events following POP, yes, the adversary was successful at sowing discord among brethren, but he didn't get rid of the body of Christ, or the rightly divided word of God.

Those men listened to the same deceiving spirits as the ten spies did, who gave an evil report of the promised land. Those same ten had seen the power of God up close. They crossed the Red sea, ate the manna, all that stuff, but when it came time to honor God, they crapped out. They had "facts" to back up their position, but God wasn't pleased with them for it. Same here.

David wasn't perfect but he was the standard. Yes, he was on the palace roof one day and he saw Bathsheba, got a boner, and you know the rest. Was that the only thing like that he ever did? He was king for a long time. The only reason this was relevant was because he deliberately arranged for Uriah the Hittite (one of his faithful, honorable men)to be killed. There were consequences for this. But, in the books of first and second kings, David was the standard. Any time a king was good, it says he "did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord like David, his father". All the soap opera stuff and the sex scandals were totally irrelevant to God.

You want to dedicate your life to cursing a dead man? Drag.

[Mod note: Edits here were for spelling.]

Edited July 29, 2016 by modcat5

[JayDee]

"All the soap opera stuff and the sex scandals were totally irrelevant to God".

Seriously???

Edited July 19, 2016 by JayDee