Where's the EXIT?

[BlueCord]

Man, I don't even know where to start with this. I get into the Way in 2010. Way Disciples (basically a revamped program of the WOWs) knocked on my door. I got sucked in because at the actual household level of things they seem to be good folks. Hell, I still think there are good people in the Way. It's just the organization as a whole is bad. Anyways, I took the classes. I went out Way Disciple. I went on Staff. The more I served the more unhappy I was. I couldn't figure it out. A while back (while we were still on staff, actually) my wife and I did an experiment to see whether or not we would be confronted or not. We quit tithing. I was certain that somebody was going to notice and bring it up, but nobody did. When I got to HQ, people were leaving staff or getting fired left and right. People who had said they were going to come on staff cancelled at the last minute. We were doing a lot of "volunteer" hours to make sure all the work got done. Since there weren't enough people to get all the work done more and more responsibility was being added to just about everyone that was competent enough to handle even the simplest of tasks. People who should have been fired for gross incompetency were allowed to remain in their jobs simply because HQ didn't have the bodies to replace them. Needless to say, my wife and I were unhappy. We finally made the announcement that we wanted to leave. In some ways it didn't go over well, and in others it did. We had to sit down with our President's cabinet and explain why we wanted to leave, that was the difficult part. The good part was that they moved us out of there in like a weeks time. Anyways, we get to our field location and things are just kind of . . . I don't know how to describe it other than to say "dead". The fellowship is only a handful of people. The coordinator and his wife are the only people who lead or teach. And the teachings are just kind of empty of any content because it's just trying to go over what was said in the STS.

I'm not sure if everyone on the site is familiar with any current members of the Way, but it seems that RFR is on the warpath. I recently spoke with Karl Kahler (the author of "The Cult That Snapped). I explained to him what is going on, and he said it's pretty much the same thing that was going on in Martindale's day; a huge purge. I'm not going to drop a lot of names, because some people are still private. So, before I went on Staff, I was looking forward to working with a friend of mine. The month before my wife and I arrived he got canned. So, we're talking around July of 2014. I arrived in August of that year and left the following year. In the time that I was there I know of at least 2 other people that got fired. I'm not sure of the reasons. Another friend of mine that I had made while on Staff (who felt the same way about life at HQ) had some discrepancies with his pay. After weeks of nothing being done to rectify the problem of NOT GETTING PAID FOR OVERTIME, he just decided to show up a few minutes late to work to get his time back. Needless to say he got in trouble, and was asked if he wanted to stay. He answered honestly and said no. Within a month he was gone. There were two couples who were in their second year of in residence Way Corp training. They asked some questions about the Foundational Class. They were immediately let go.

Fast forward to right now. I got some news this weekend about some corp being dropped. One couple (the husband had recently been promoted to coordinate the IO department) had been fired shortly after I left HQ. He gets sent to another state. I'm not sure of the details, but this weekend I found out he was dropped from the Corp and has left the ministry. Another good friend of mine who was Corp also got dropped. The reason? He made some comments about feeling unproductive. Now here's the kicker. One of the Vice Presidents of the Way got canned also. We're talking a senior officer. So, I see all this stuff going on, and I've read all the stuff about the years under Martindale (which I didn't go through) and I think to myself "Oh my God. It's happening again".

I don't know what else to say. I'm in the process of getting out. I don't know how to go about breaking it to my "leadership" without getting sucked back in.

[MRAP]

I am positive you are gonna get a plethora of responses to your question BlueCord.

I am also sure that many of us here are envious of your decision in thinking how you want to go about the exit - we would exit in a firestorm and get our satisfaction.

In my particualar exit, I was "shunned", I broke a rule - back in the 70's the rules were quite explicit and "punishment" fast (please Brer Fox, don't throw me in the briar patch).

May I ask: do you want to go quietly or some other way to make a point?

Many folks who post here do more so on the weekend so be patient.

[waysider]

BlueCord

One thing that helps, in my opinion, is coming to grips with the reality that The Way is just a cult. It's not some elite organization, striving for some noble goal. It's just a cult, like thousands of cults that have come before it and thousands yet to come. You're not reneging on a sacred vow nor should you allow anyone to make you feel guilty or ashamed.

Even the worst of organizations has people who, as individuals, are goodhearted. The organization, itself, is corrupt to its very core. I first became involved in 1972. Even back then, it was corrupt and evil. I didn't know that, of course, nor did many of the genuinely good people I met along the way. Get out while you can. Don't be talked out of your decision.

[BlueCord]

BlueCord

One thing that helps, in my opinion, is coming to grips with the reality that The Way is just a cult. It's not some elite organization, striving for some noble goal. It's just a cult, like thousands of cults that have come before it and thousands yet to come. You're not reneging on a sacred vow nor should you allow anyone to make you feel guilty or ashamed.

Even the worst of organizations has people who, as individuals, are goodhearted. The organization, itself, is corrupt to its very core. I first became involved in 1972. Even back then, it was corrupt and evil. I didn't know that, of course, nor did many of the genuinely good people I met along the way. Get out while you can. Don't be talked out of your decision.

I will NOT be talked out of my decision. I'm sure there will be attempts. But I'm done. Like you said, it's a cult. And there are still great people that are stuck in it or just now beginning to realize it like I am. What I'm struggling with right now is trying to sort out the truth from the lies in their teachings. I know a lot of folks here aren't Christians, but my wife and I still are. A lot of what was taught in the classes seem to make sense to us. Like, I have my doubts about the speaking in tongues and everything, but I still speak in tongues and it still helps me feel good and peaceful. Then at the same time it sounds like a bunch of gibberish to me. It's crazy. I haven't started the search for a church yet, but I'm about to Google local churches in my area.

And to answer your question MRAP, I just want to go quietly. The last thing I want to do is alienate my friends or family that is still in. Like I said about the PEOPLE, there are good people that are in. They legitimately strive to be good Christians and walk in love. Those are the people that I don't want to hurt. So, while it may be "good" for The Way that I don't want to rock the boat, I'm not really thinking of them. I just want to wash my hands of the organization. Quit going to fellowship, quit having people call me about fellowship, no more classes, no more forced witnessing. For the most part I don't feel some overwhelming need to burn the "ministry". I mean, there are times when I feel really strongly about them and I do want to sort of stick it to them, but it wouldn't do me any good. It would really just draw out the process in my opinion.

[T-Bone]

(snip)...I don't know what else to say. I'm in the process of getting out. I don't know how to go about breaking it to my "leadership" without getting sucked back in.

I think I understand; you sound resolute in what you say – and expressing a concern of being sucked back may just be anticipating all the manipulative techniques leadership could use – and that concern is a good thing! It might be some good prep to anticipate scenarios and dialogues and rehearse your response.

I left during my assignment year – (I think that's called the practicum year – hell, I asked my wife and she couldn't remember either – /> – that's maybe a good thing - anyway it's after 2 years in residence) – in the aftermath of "passing of a patriarch" (POP) I kept coming up with questions, questions, and more questions about everything; first I had questions about issues that were brought up in POP, since TWI leadership stonewalled me on all points, I slowly began focusing a critical eye on everything – even PFAL;

one verse (listed below) I kept referring to whether it was in my resignation letters to TWI leadership or to believers in my area (we still went to various Twigs for a while – it was awkward though being the former area coordinator and wanting to just hang out and fellowship )

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good - I Thessalonians 5:21 NASB

I will NOT be talked out of my decision. I'm sure there will be attempts. But I'm done. Like you said, it's a cult. And there are still great people that are stuck in it or just now beginning to realize it like I am. What I'm struggling with right now is trying to sort out the truth from the lies in their teachings. I know a lot of folks here aren't Christians, but my wife and I still are. A lot of what was taught in the classes seem to make sense to us. Like, I have my doubts about the speaking in tongues and everything, but I still speak in tongues and it still helps me feel good and peaceful. Then at the same time it sounds like a bunch of gibberish to me. It's crazy. I haven't started the search for a church yet, but I'm about to Google local churches in my area.

And to answer your question MRAP, I just want to go quietly. The last thing I want to do is alienate my friends or family that is still in. Like I said about the PEOPLE, there are good people that are in. They legitimately strive to be good Christians and walk in love. Those are the people that I don't want to hurt. So, while it may be "good" for The Way that I don't want to rock the boat, I'm not really thinking of them. I just want to wash my hands of the organization. Quit going to fellowship, quit having people call me about fellowship, no more classes, no more forced witnessing. For the most part I don't feel some overwhelming need to burn the "ministry". I mean, there are times when I feel really strongly about them and I do want to sort of stick it to them, but it wouldn't do me any good. It would really just draw out the process in my opinion.

As far as attempting to sort out the truth from lies in TWI's teachings – I'm sure you'll get a lot of feedback from Grease Spot; you may find it helpful to do some Internet searches and check out mainstream Christian doctrines – merely as an exercise in alternate viewpoints and analyzing ala I Thessalonians 5:21; wouldn't hurt to check out critical thinking on the Internet too.... A few books that helped me at first were:

Scripture Twisting by J Squire

Understanding the Bible by Stott

Beyond Seduction by Hunt

Besides re-examining all TWI doctrine you'll probably find some mental baggage along your journey; that may prove to be a trickier thing to work out. That's where Grease Spot comes in handy – and having open and honest communication with your wife. I wish you and your wife the best on your journey to freedom.

Welcome to Grease Spot, Blue Cord – I'm glad you joined !!!!

[MRAP]

I lost friends, forever, when I left. However you exit, expect the loss of some and be willing to accept it - you and your wife have a life to live.

You have a convoluted assocciation with The Way - numerous ties. Your exit will be quite differenct than I and my wife.

Follow your heart and your logical thoughts BlueCord, memories will haunt you, expect it but grasp hold on the freedom and the awakened life you have chosen - DON'T LOOK BACK.

You are not turning your back on God - always keep that in your head.

If anyone tells you otherwise, and they will, just let it go, let it go.

[krys]

You can always go first and tell them about it later, if at all. If you tell them to leave you alone....not to contact you further...they probably won't.

[Rocky]

Lot's of good insight for you, BlueCord, in the comments before mine.

One of the most important things that will help you keep from getting sucked back in eventually will be to establish a support network of friends not connected to TWI.

That's one of the benefits of connecting with a church near your home.

It may be difficult to find one with which you feel comfortable with all of its teachings. That's less important (whether they agree doctrinally with what you learned in TWI) than

making solid social contacts.

Of course, churches aren't the only places to establish a good, supportive social network.

Congratulations on recognizing the organizational problems and being willing to act on your concerns.

[johniam]

quote: So, I see all this stuff going on, and I've read all the stuff about the years under Martindale (which I didn't go through) and I think to myself "Oh my God. It's happening again".

Those folks don't learn very well.

[WordWolf]

Greetings, BlueCord!

Sometimes, vpw went to the corps-in-training and demanded an oath of loyalty.

When lcm felt that people weren't kneeling at his image like they had done

with vpw, lcm demanded an oath of loyalty- of all the staff, all the corps,

all the coordinators, and demanded the loyalty of the rank-and-file as

well (although not with an oath.)

The result of that demand and the events surrounding it (1988-1990) was

that 80% of the total membership-along with large numbers of coordinators-

LEFT. So, in 1990, FOUR OUT OF FIVE twi'ers had LEFT as a result of the

oath. A few years later, lcm began doing a series of PURGES- some

meant to cut costs, most meant to ensure only the most loyal remained.

Not long after that came the first lawsuits, and twi began hemmorrhaging

members who had hard questions twi refused to answer.

"Just obey-don't question us."

So, another purge is in progress? Amazing there's enough people left

TO purge. I'm fascinated. I also have a few questions about the

typical meeting.

[Bolshevik]

Hi Bluecord,

You didn't get involved with twi until 2010? Way D success stories are few a far between. You are the exception.

[Twinky]

Welcome, BlueCord. Best wishes for a happy and healthy exit. You sound very determined and I think you will recover from Waybrain fairly quickly.

You are NOT turning your back on God. You have no allegiance to a corrupt organisation, a false prophet, a fear-mongering lie machine.

Whatever manipulations or threats or ill-treatment the Way throws at you, remember they did that to at least one poster here and probably more than one. Expect your name to be dragged through the mud and you will be called a possesso or maybe a homosexual or slandered in other ways.

Don't get hung up on doctrine, look at what the local churches do, see how they treat you and each other, and don't be afraid to go to another if one doesn't suit you. You will find many excellent people who really walk the walk, and don't seek after their own glorification. Be open to hearing new interpretations of familiar scriptures, and consider what truth there may be in the new interpretations you're hearing.

God has a rich, full, genuinely serving life ahead of you, one that is not empty or meaningless or unproductive. Enjoy exploring it.

You can always bring confusion or doubt here. We've all escaped (with greater or lesser pain) and learned new ways to think, live, and enjoy life. We know it can be a strange journey you're embarking on.

[Tzaia]

I'd just quit going. They don't want people who aren't in it to the max and the quieter you go, the less likely they are to badmouth you.

I wouldn't offer up the information to anyone, especially your friends that are still in as you will more than likely be "mark and avoided".

Best wishes to you, and welcome aboard the greasespot cafe

[modcat5]

Hi BlueCord. This is Raf. This is the hat I wear when acting in official capacity as a moderator. (If you see "mod" in front of a screen name, it's a moderator). Great to have you on board.

[outandabout]

I'm surprised that people are getting fired and dropped when the numbers leaving seem to be more than those joining.

It's interesting to hear what's happening now. We don't get much info on that here. Most of us have been out for a long time.

I left in 1988 after 15 years. I was totally relieved to get out. I can relate to you feeling less and less happy. I think that's for a lot of reasons. It's a gut feeling that's valid, not unrenewed mind!

One thing that helped me was realizing that I was NOT turning my back of God because I was leaving The Way. God's blessings continued.

One thing I've found is that I have exposed myself to books, teachings and web sites by other Christian authors and learned a lot. Contrary to what we were told by TWI, there are a lot of learned Biblical scholars out there, some no longer with us but their works live on.

I still think that we were exposed to some biblical truths that aren't widely known in most of Christendom but that never meant that we owed The Way our total lives and blind loyalty.

Edited June 14, 2016 by outandabout

[Karl Kahler]

Courage to you, BlueCord. Leaving is not easy, especially with the deep social and family ties that The Way can wrap around you, not to mention the suggestions they may have planted in your head that if you leave The Way, God is "forced" to remove his hand of protection from you and you are fair game for the Adversary. That is pure manipulation and brainwashing, but it's powerful stuff. You ask me, the freedom on the other side is worth whatever it takes to break out of The Way's bondage.

[Bolshevik]

You know, when some people leave they take a bunch of others with them. . . . Rosie then loses the opportunity to throw them out, or threaten to throw them out.

Start a schism, that's what the cool kids do.

[Raf]

Karl!

[Karl Kahler]

Hey Raf, sup! Long time, huh?

[WordWolf]

Courage to you, BlueCord. Leaving is not easy, especially with the deep social and family ties that The Way can wrap around you, not to mention the suggestions they may have planted in your head that if you leave The Way, God is "forced" to remove his hand of protection from you and you are fair game for the Adversary. That is pure manipulation and brainwashing, but it's powerful stuff. You ask me, the freedom on the other side is worth whatever it takes to break out of The Way's bondage.

Interesting how it worked.

If you did well in twi, it was because God wanted you to prosper BECAUSE YOU WERE IN TWI AND OBEYING.

If you did well and weren't in twi or disoebyed, it was because the devil wanted you to prosper for disobeying.

One poster summarized:

"God wants me to prosper. The devil wants me to prosper. I'm everybody's friend!"

Meanwhile, at other times,

twi tried to terrify people from leaving. The outside world is full of scary things.

So, don't disobey or we'll send you there!

But twi was SO oppressive and SO fear-filled everyday that people figured it couldn't be any WORSE

when leaving- and were surprised when all the fear, tension, and stress melted away.

Freedom, the ability to make choices, extra time due to a lack of micro-management!

Life!

Which levers are they trying to push today?

[BlueCord]

There's a lot to respond to in this post. First I'd like to start with Karl. I'm still reading the book. At once I'd like to say that I'm impressed that you put together works cited at the end of each chapter. The second is that now that I've made the decision to leave is that I am skeptical about EVERYTHING. I have a question that I'm sure will sound rude, but that isn't the intent. When you wrote your book, did you do it specifically to hurt the Way? Did you write it out of bitterness? I ask not because I'm trying to discredit your work, but because it seems so difficult to believe everything you are saying about the character of VPW. Now, the man died before I was even born, so I'm not trying to insult anybody by saying this. What I mean is that for the past six years all I've ever heard about VPW is the shiny, rosy picture that TWI presents of him. When I got involved with the Way D's back in 2010 I had heard the "rumors" about the adultery in the upper echelons of TWI, but I didn't believe them because I looked at the man coordinating the team of Way D's that had witnessed to me. I thought to myself "Jesus Christ himself could demand that (we'll call him Bob) Bob share his wife, and he'd tell the Lord to go .... himself". I literally thought that. I thought that if this guy at the lower levels was so spot on, the upper ranks couldn't be nearly as bad as the "rumors" I'd heard. And if SOME of the leaders were bad, well . . . that's because everybody is an individual that is responsible for their own actions. It certainly couldn't be as widespread as it was reported. That was my thinking process, and that is why I'm asking whether or not any parts of your book are exaggerated.

About the ideas that are planted in our head about some of the "losing protection/favor of God" . . . I've put it to the test in the form of ABS. I quit tithing about a year ago and haven't seen any negatives. I know that TWI isn't the only way to God. They don't have the market on truth cornered, so I'm not at all afraid about that.

Raf, thanks for getting me to this board. My wife thinks that all you guys are bitter and hateful towards the Way, so she's super concerned that y'all are brainwashing me now. LOL.

Bolshevik, I legitimately love a good majority of the people that are still involved. I don't want to rock the boat. It's not because I don't want to see TWI fail, but because I don't want to cause any harm to people who are still in it. With the current environment, they'll see the writing on the wall soon enough. TWI is a sinking ship and it's not about to get any better. Plus, I don't want to cause division among fellow Christians. If I can live peacefully with folks and still get my freedom back that's all I'm concerned about.

outandabout, I agree with your statement that we got some good teaching from TWI. And I'm EXPECTING to get more from other sources from outside of them as well. However, due to the fact that they are a cult and the information that I've read so far in Karl's book, I am questioning EVERYTHING they taught. I'm working with a guy now who was dropped from in-residence training because he asked questions about the Foundational Class, so I'm confident that as I review this material I'll have a better chance of keeping the good and throwing out the bad.

Tzaia, I've been thinking a LOT about what you've said about going quietly. The issue with just fading away is two-fold. First, I feel like as a decent, and honest human being I at least owe my local leadership the common courtesy of saying "Hey, I'm done with this. Please don't contact me anymore" (more or less). Secondly, when I left Staff I did so very shortly after signing some commitment to a 2nd year. My leave was abrupt, and I'm sure that it spoke volumes to the powers that be about the current situation. I want them to know that I'm leaving and I want them to know why. I don't expect it will make any difference, but I HOPE that it could make Rosie open her eyes and realize that she's gotta start taking care of people instead of things. Me leaving, even though quietly and respectfully, is meant to send a message.

Twinky, I have been worried that my friends and family would think I'm possessed or something. So far the folks that I have told are actually somewhat supportive of me. They have gone so far as to say that TWI is not the only way to have a relationship with God . . . that they would never think less of, or harass anybody for leaving. So, that has given me a little peace of mind about the upcoming talk I still have to schedule with my leadership. I'm thinking of just sending them a letter. The guy that I mentioned that got dropped from the in residence training for asking questions cautioned me that if I do talk to them face to face they are going to be reading everything about me (like body language, dress, mannerisms, etc) to try to say that I'm possessed, so I'm trying to prepare for that.

[Rocky]

There's a lot to respond to in this post. First I'd like to start with Karl. I'm still reading the book. At once I'd like to say that I'm impressed that you put together works cited at the end of each chapter. The second is that now that I've made the decision to leave is that I am skeptical about EVERYTHING. I have a question that I'm sure will sound rude, but that isn't the intent. When you wrote your book, did you do it specifically to hurt the Way? Did you write it out of bitterness? I ask not because I'm trying to discredit your work, but because it seems so difficult to believe everything you are saying about the character of VPW.

Not speaking for Karl, but being familiar with Karl's decades long career as a journalist, he didn't write anything to hurt anyone. Journalists write to tell the truth.

Journalists, and I have a little bit of experience with this (though not nearly as much as Karl), write because they can't NOT write to tell the story of the truth.

The characters in the story are characters in a story. They are not targets. The target is the ears and eyes and understanding of the readers.

Take care of your relationship with your wife. From what you've shared, she's apparently not as convinced as you are. Changing hearts and minds in a situation like you're in is not easy and takes time, patience and love.

[Rocky]

Tzaia, I've been thinking a LOT about what you've said about going quietly. The issue with just fading away is two-fold. First, I feel like as a decent, and honest human being I at least owe my local leadership the common courtesy of saying "Hey, I'm done with this. Please don't contact me anymore" (more or less). Secondly, when I left Staff I did so very shortly after signing some commitment to a 2nd year. My leave was abrupt, and I'm sure that it spoke volumes to the powers that be about the current situation. I want them to know that I'm leaving and I want them to know why. I don't expect it will make any difference, but I HOPE that it could make Rosie open her eyes and realize that she's gotta start taking care of people instead of things. Me leaving, even though quietly and respectfully, is meant to send a message.

Twinky, I have been worried that my friends and family would think I'm possessed or something. So far the folks that I have told are actually somewhat supportive of me. They have gone so far as to say that TWI is not the only way to have a relationship with God . . . that they would never think less of, or harass anybody for leaving. So, that has given me a little peace of mind about the upcoming talk I still have to schedule with my leadership. I'm thinking of just sending them a letter. The guy that I mentioned that got dropped from the in residence training for asking questions cautioned me that if I do talk to them face to face they are going to be reading everything about me (like body language, dress, mannerisms, etc) to try to say that I'm possessed, so I'm trying to prepare for that.

You're not going to be able to do anything that will open Rosie's eyes. It would take a significant emotional event (significant to her) for her to change any aspect of her values. It's outside of your control.

History -- the record of thousands of people in situations similar to yours -- indicates that they will tell others that you're possessed. You can't stop that. It is something you will eventually have to accept and/or let go of.

[WordWolf]

You're not going to be able to do anything that will open Rosie's eyes. It would take a significant emotional event (significant to her) for her to change any aspect of her values. It's outside of your control.

In order to open Rosie's eyes, you'd need to surprise her with something.

vpw, Donna and Rosie were/are all fully aware of how they're conning people and

exploiting them. lcm was the one who was fooled-which is one big reason why

he got caught. The others all know to cover their tracks and not let anyone

"pay any attention to the man behind the curtain."

If you want to tell individuals, go ahead. The organization would be a waste of time.

History -- the record of thousands of people in situations similar to yours -- indicates that they will tell others that you're possessed. You can't stop that. It is something you will eventually have to accept and/or let go of.

The organization will try to make you feel bad. The organization will try to

make you feel outside God's protection and outside God's will in seeking to

free yourself from their tentacles.

Have you considered actively recording any incident? Most people will not want video

evidence of them acting like twi'ers act in these situations-

because the evidence could go viral in hours.

It might make them act less manipulatively.

[waysider]

The entire organization is built on deception. VPW said he had received special insight that hadn't been known for 2,000 years. That's a lie. Almost all the books and classes were plagiarized. Some of them were stolen, word for word, page for page. Even entire books were plagiarized. Many times, Wierwille did not understand what he was copying. Other times, what he copied was never accurate in the first place. The challenge is not to find what is plagiarized, but, rather, to find what is not. You can find all the evidence you could possibly want or need right here on GSC. I'm pressed for time at the moment but you can use the search window or ask someone to assist you in finding examples. I'm not at all bitter. Relieved would more accurately describe how I felt when I finally saw what had happened to me.

EDIT: words

Edited June 15, 2016 by waysider