I remember a lot of talk in TWI about "The Mystery". Which was explained away as Grace.
Life is full of mystery. It seems in TWI the mysterious, the unknown, that which can't be explained, was simply unacceptable.
You've got to narrow your perceptions quite a bit to appreciate such certainty.
Forget what the Way said about the mystery. What does the Bible say about the mystery?
Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:7, Eph 1:9, Eph 3:3 & 4, Eph 3:9, Eph 6:19, Col 1:26 & 27, Col 2:2, Col 4:3.
There is more, but that's a start. I googled "mystery hidden in god" and got almost 8 million hits. That'd keep someone busy for a while. God's word does explain the mystery. It's got nothing to do with twi making anything unacceptable. Actually, twi has nothing to do with the mystery. It was God's idea several thousand years before twi even came on the scene. I wouldn't s..t can the whole idea just because vp taught it. You can easily see that plenty of others taught it before vp. Bullinger comes to mind. I think he has a really good idea on the mystery. Check this out:
Or - - John 1 is talking about two divine beings – in the beginning the word was with God (that’s one divine being) and the word was God (that’s ANOTHER divine being). That does make sense to me. Your assertions that it must be a figure of speech because it makes no sense to you or that the word becoming flesh is a figure of speech are groundless. What is the name of the figure of speech? “Nonsense”?
you pointing out the clear verses that show God and Jesus are two distinct beings - I don’t have a problem with – because I believe they ARE two separate beings. Perhaps looking at the clear passages that speak of Christ’s divinity – like in Philippians 2 and Colossians 2 might help you understand my viewpoint.
Maybe you are right. But maybe not.
The phrase "the word" is repeated 3 times in John 1. All three times it is O logos in the Greek. That "O" is the word "the." It points out a particular thing. It is not at all like saying "a word." If it did say "a word" I think you might be correct. But "the word" is something different. All three references are to "the word." "The word" is always "the word." Not one "word" here and another "word" there.
I think Christ certainly had a divine nature. Now that you and I are born again, so do we. Part of the new creation God created in us. Now I don't know about you, but I'm sure I'm not God. You're probably not God either. My divine nature doesn't make me God nor did Jesus' divine nature make him God.
Forget what the Way said about the mystery. What does the Bible say about the mystery?
Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:7, Eph 1:9, Eph 3:3 & 4, Eph 3:9, Eph 6:19, Col 1:26 & 27, Col 2:2, Col 4:3.
There is more, but that's a start. I googled "mystery hidden in god" and got almost 8 million hits. That'd keep someone busy for a while. God's word does explain the mystery. It's got nothing to do with twi making anything unacceptable. Actually, twi has nothing to do with the mystery. It was God's idea several thousand years before twi even came on the scene. I wouldn't s..t can the whole idea just because vp taught it. You can easily see that plenty of others taught it before vp. Bullinger comes to mind. I think he has a really good idea on the mystery. Check this out:
In fact, that one is so good I'm going to put it on JBI, which now, only I can access.
I would start a new thread about "The Mystery" if that's what you'd like to discuss.
I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't neither arguing for or arguing against TWI/Bullinger's take on "The Mystery". It served a role in TWI/VPW dogma.
There are perspectives in which The Trinity makes sense. One that doesn't involve some conspiracy theory to force the idea on people.
If you can't see from those perspectives, of course it just won't make sense.
I would start a new thread about "The Mystery" if that's what you'd like to discuss.
I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't neither arguing for or arguing against TWI/Bullinger's take on "The Mystery". It served a role in TWI/VPW dogma.
There are perspectives in which The Trinity makes sense. One that doesn't involve some conspiracy theory to force the idea on people.
If you can't see from those perspectives, of course it just won't make sense.
I was replying to T-Bone on the trinity when I came across Bolshevik's post talking about the mystery in the trinity forum. I guess I went off topic to discuss that with him. I guess I should have just told him to stay on topic. Next time. I'm learning.
I'll get back on topic...
I think I see what you mean by saying there are some perspectives in which the trinity makes sense. True enough. How about perspectives where it does not make sense?
Is one (it does make sense) as valid as the other (it does not make sense)?
I'm being serious, sincere, and I shall never troll here again. I promise. It was a one time thing. Just discussing the trinity with you now. You made a good point so I'm answering in all seriousness. I think we can both let our guards down and discuss doctrine which is my favourite subject.
This fraud Robson knows as much about the Trinity as dictor paul.....which is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He's a 2-cult bible student, and overt plagiarist of anything that is of any critical value in textual and MSS evidentiary critique. LIAR and plagiarist.......anyone see a familiar pattern???? It is not in any way difficult, disciplined, or academically acceptable to base all of one's "personal theology" upon the previously published and widely quoted works of others, without serious scholastic recognition and detailed footnoting. To say "I studied Greek" is no valid credentialling! Where? Under whom? How long? What academic or scholastic accomplishment or recognition of your "studying of Greek" did you obtain? Did you get your ThD at Pikes Peak Bible Seminary too??? LMAO! You understand that sky pilot for dictor paul ?? Like faddah (in-da-woid) like son.
This fraud Robson knows as much about the Trinity as dictor paul.....which is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He's a 2-cult bible student, and overt plagiarist of anything that is of any critical value in textual and MSS evidentiary critique. LIAR and plagiarist.......anyone see a familiar pattern???? It is not in any way difficult, disciplined, or academically acceptable to base all of one's "personal theology" upon the previously published and widely quoted works of others, without serious scholastic recognition and detailed footnoting. To say "I studied Greek" is no valid credentialling! Where? Under whom? How long? What academic or scholastic accomplishment or recognition of your "studying of Greek" did you obtain? Did you get your ThD at Pikes Peak Bible Seminary too??? LMAO! You understand that sky pilot for dictor paul ?? Like faddah (in-da-woid) like son.
Clearly I am superior to the typical gsc cult follower, both in wit and scriptural knowledge. You guys should all humble yourselves, join my flock, and let me teach you the real interpretation of the Bible.
Clearly I am superior to the typical gsc cult follower, both in wit and scriptural knowledge. You guys should all humble yourselves, join my flock, and let me teach you the real interpretation of the Bible.
You guys so invite it. Have you not noticed that I reply according to people's reply to me? I am perfectly able and willing to discus things like adults. But if people want to act like children with snarky and cryptic replies, I'm very good at that also (even though it's waste of time). Like I said, in wit and doctrine, I have no equals here at gsc. Stop messing around and stay on topic.
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chockfull
What experience with churches today exactly do you have? Aren't you one of the ones that isolated and studied PFAL collaterals for a decade plus not attending churches? In my experience the trin
Raf
Questions about the identity of Jesus Christ are almost as old as Christianity itself. The gospels and epistles are, at least in part, a rebuttal to early claims about exactly who Jesus was, both befo
Bolshevik
We're not really trying to prove or disprove existence of anything in this thread. If many people over generations talk about it, that's good enough. It exists. Do the various views of trinity/
Bolshevik
I remember a lot of talk in TWI about "The Mystery". Which was explained away as Grace.
Life is full of mystery. It seems in TWI the mysterious, the unknown, that which can't be explained, was simply unacceptable.
You've got to narrow your perceptions quite a bit to appreciate such certainty.
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rrobs
Forget what the Way said about the mystery. What does the Bible say about the mystery?
Rom 16:25, 1 Cor 2:7, Eph 1:9, Eph 3:3 & 4, Eph 3:9, Eph 6:19, Col 1:26 & 27, Col 2:2, Col 4:3.
There is more, but that's a start. I googled "mystery hidden in god" and got almost 8 million hits. That'd keep someone busy for a while. God's word does explain the mystery. It's got nothing to do with twi making anything unacceptable. Actually, twi has nothing to do with the mystery. It was God's idea several thousand years before twi even came on the scene. I wouldn't s..t can the whole idea just because vp taught it. You can easily see that plenty of others taught it before vp. Bullinger comes to mind. I think he has a really good idea on the mystery. Check this out:
Bullinger - The Mystery
In fact, that one is so good I'm going to put it on JBI, which now, only I can access.
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rrobs
Maybe you are right. But maybe not.
The phrase "the word" is repeated 3 times in John 1. All three times it is O logos in the Greek. That "O" is the word "the." It points out a particular thing. It is not at all like saying "a word." If it did say "a word" I think you might be correct. But "the word" is something different. All three references are to "the word." "The word" is always "the word." Not one "word" here and another "word" there.
I think Christ certainly had a divine nature. Now that you and I are born again, so do we. Part of the new creation God created in us. Now I don't know about you, but I'm sure I'm not God. You're probably not God either.
My divine nature doesn't make me God nor did Jesus' divine nature make him God.
I didn't check out Phil 2 or Col 2, but I will.
Edited by rrobsaddition
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Bolshevik
I would start a new thread about "The Mystery" if that's what you'd like to discuss.
I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't neither arguing for or arguing against TWI/Bullinger's take on "The Mystery". It served a role in TWI/VPW dogma.
There are perspectives in which The Trinity makes sense. One that doesn't involve some conspiracy theory to force the idea on people.
If you can't see from those perspectives, of course it just won't make sense.
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rrobs
I was replying to T-Bone on the trinity when I came across Bolshevik's post talking about the mystery in the trinity forum. I guess I went off topic to discuss that with him. I guess I should have just told him to stay on topic. Next time. I'm learning.
I'll get back on topic...
I think I see what you mean by saying there are some perspectives in which the trinity makes sense. True enough. How about perspectives where it does not make sense?
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Bolshevik
What about them?
(I'm asking in all seriousness)
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rrobs
Is one (it does make sense) as valid as the other (it does not make sense)?
I'm being serious, sincere, and I shall never troll here again. I promise. It was a one time thing. Just discussing the trinity with you now. You made a good point so I'm answering in all seriousness. I think we can both let our guards down and discuss doctrine which is my favourite subject.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Once a troll always a troll, LIAR.
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waysider
All men are liars...and that's the truth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heNLjW4o5XE
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DontWorryBeHappy
This fraud Robson knows as much about the Trinity as dictor paul.....which is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He's a 2-cult bible student, and overt plagiarist of anything that is of any critical value in textual and MSS evidentiary critique. LIAR and plagiarist.......anyone see a familiar pattern???? It is not in any way difficult, disciplined, or academically acceptable to base all of one's "personal theology" upon the previously published and widely quoted works of others, without serious scholastic recognition and detailed footnoting. To say "I studied Greek" is no valid credentialling! Where? Under whom? How long? What academic or scholastic accomplishment or recognition of your "studying of Greek" did you obtain? Did you get your ThD at Pikes Peak Bible Seminary too??? LMAO! You understand that sky pilot for dictor paul ?? Like faddah (in-da-woid) like son.
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Bolshevik
Absolutely. Doesn't everything work that way?
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waysider
Yes...and no.
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Bolshevik
Or you might say the one that does not make sense is more valid.
If you can make sense of it then it is probably too much of a simpleton as far as any god is concerned.
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rrobs
or maybe
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waysider
Definitely not maybe.
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rrobs
Looks like we're done with the trinity. What's next guys?
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rrobs
The cleverest bunch I ever ran into!
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Bolshevik
Not being clever. We're not trolling, remember?
Doesn't the trinitarian view have more dimensions to consider?
Edited by BolshevikStupid autocorrect
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rrobs
A little clarifications please. Give me one or two other dimensions we should consider.
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rrobs
Clearly I am superior to the typical gsc cult follower, both in wit and scriptural knowledge. You guys should all humble yourselves, join my flock, and let me teach you the real interpretation of the Bible.
Edited by rrobstypo
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Bolshevik
Well, it's a Trinity.
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Bolshevik
Trolling . . .
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rrobs
You guys so invite it. Have you not noticed that I reply according to people's reply to me? I am perfectly able and willing to discus things like adults. But if people want to act like children with snarky and cryptic replies, I'm very good at that also (even though it's waste of time). Like I said, in wit and doctrine, I have no equals here at gsc. Stop messing around and stay on topic.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Yawn
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