"Fast forward to a fourth generation being born. Numerous requests from insiders to go on Staff and change from within. By this time, my life had changed. The grind of finally getting (and keeping) a real job meant hard work. I began to feel like everything in the ministry was a motion. Same old collaterals. The articles in the magazine were SOOOO predictable, as were the overly scripted services."
REALITY HITS HOME.......there is nothing like finances, family and career choices
staring you in the face and all you get from twi is "renew your mind" tripe.
I cannot speak to physical harm or violence, but the verbal intimidation and servitude was right up there.
I was once brow-beaten for 10 straight minutes about wearing jeans as part of a set-up crew. We were cleaning bathrooms. That had already been cleaned. But casually nice meant khakis, and God wants you to clean the crappers with Dockers.
One of a thousand such examples. But physical, not in my post-fog experience. Everything was set up to show the caste system and make you want to move up the ladder and gain more control. Coordinate something or someone.
And.....this new poster, Collateral Damage, was born into it.
Kudos to him for the courage to leave and post here.
There is nothing new under the sun....and certainly, nothing NEW in twi.
You know the drill. Take the class so that you can ??? (fill in the blank). So you take the class and then,
find yourself surrounded by cliché monitors, collateral cultists, and claptrap freaks. Now, you've entered
"their" world.....a circle within a circle, within a circle. It's a bleeping, freaking echo chamber.
Years and years of claptrap....empty talk, repetitive articles in the way rag.
Same deal with wierwille's foundational class.....filled with applause lines.
Empty pompous, pious, platitudes pitched to pimp people.
I'm almost halfway thru the book Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief by Lawrence Wright, and then I happened upon this thread. And I thought the similarities I found around pages 177 to 182 were worth posting. I guess there's only so many ways one can try to manipulate and control people – maybe all cult leaders think alike…. I don't know…
….anyway wanted to mention a few points Wright makes that go along the theme of this thread…some of Wright's points (listed below) refer to the work of Robert Jay Lifton a young American psychiatrist who began studying victims of what Chinese Communists called thought reform:
Dogma is promoted as incontestable (or as Wright puts it scientifically incontestable).
Resistance is not just immoral; it's illogical and unscientific.
Language is constricted by thought-terminating clichés; complex issues are compressed into brief, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.
The combination of enforced logic and clichéd discourse creates a kind of melodrama – formulaic thoughts and handicapped language substitute for real emotions and hamper a complex understanding of human nature.
Going Clear also makes reference to a pamphlet supposedly from a speech by the head of the Soviet Secret Police under Stalin – the text specifies how to realign the goals of the individual with those of the group:
Undermine the ability of the person to think and act on their own.
Destroy loyalty to family.
Destroy loyalty to friends.
Ultimately, all other emotional claims on the person have been broken; only the State or the group remains.
I think of the Prez of the USA and the vast motorcade that carries him around.
The henchmen and heavies that apparently surrounded VPW (he was dead before I got too involved, so no personal knowledge). I don't disbelief the reports.
Even pop stars and other celebs have heavies to protect them (or enhance their egos).
And I think of the Queen of England, a tiny woman only 5'2", who walks about, stands about, stands in open motor vehicles. With very little obvious protection detail. I have been at an event where she has been so close I could have reached out and touched her (she wouldn't mind; the very discreet SAS would have been watching veeerrry carefully). You (as Americans) might think she has little or no power; you'd be wrong. Simply, she is understated in all she does.
She is the head of the Anglican church and always goes to church on Sundays (usually driving herself there) and sits quietly in some random pew (nowhere special, not the pew reserved for her.) She means it when she prays for her people, prays for God's strength in her life. But that's not a part of her public face; few actually see that. She herself writes, and records, a Christmas message and always mentions Jesus Christ and his accomplishments, and if you read through the speeches, she quietly explains the gospel message - to the world.
Oh, and she never rants or raves at people.
If the cornfield clown had been shot at.killed, it's hard to see what difference, in world terms, that would make.
If the Queen had been killed, there would have been international mourning.
I think of the Prez of the USA and the vast motorcade that carries him around.
The henchmen and heavies that apparently surrounded VPW (he was dead before I got too involved, so no personal knowledge). I don't disbelief the reports.
Even pop stars and other celebs have heavies to protect them (or enhance their egos).
There's a paradox here, Twinky. Here was this guy who railed against fear, championed the *law of believing*, scolded those who couldn't believe for healing or wealth, chastised those who demonstrated the least bit of fear. And, yet , there he was, surrounding himself with armed thugs, guarding against the thing he feared...retaliation from disgruntled followers. Where was his own *believing* to be more than a conqueror, abiding in the safety of the Lord's watchful eye?
It had much greater significance than the usual bodyguards of celebrities we've come to expect.
The surrounding of himself with an armed security detail and a tight entourage was not out of fear as much as it was out of malignant narcissism.
My first summer school in 1971, dictor was everybody's pal. He walked around in shorts and overalls and hung out with his keedz. Lots of pizza and beer or burger nights, dances with secular rock and R&B music. There was no dress code other than Sunday nights and corpse nights (Tuesday's back then). Lots of laughter and music in prep for the first ROA.
But, by the time of my first year in-Rez, it was already changing. As it turned out, I had an affinity for being hailed into dictor's office over the loudspeakers in the courtyard for personal reproof and correction meetings frequently during my first 4 months in the corpse. The first one, I entered his office smoking a cigarette and sat down without asking permission. OMG!....you'd think the world was ending! Dictor screams at me, "Stand up!".
Would you walk into the office of President Nixon smoking a .... cigarette?". I quickly shot back, "I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near old tricky dick's office VP!" I was then ordered at top vein-popping volume, to get the .... outta his sight and never call him "VP" again! Never got around to yelling at me for whatever he called me in for.
But, I began to see that malignant narcissistic delusional grandeur of dictor as the man-o-gawd. Comparing himself to Nixon as worthy of the same care, concern, respect and treatment for himself as the most important man on the Earth.....the greatest Apostle since Paul in the first centur, expositor of the great mystery, whose "specialty" was "the holy spirit field" which he co-opted and blatantNtly plagiarized from J.E. Stiles, B.G. Leonard, E.W. Bullinger, Kenyon, Pillai, Lamsa, Glenn Clark, Rufus Mosely, Starr Daily, Oswald Chambers, Rosalind Rinker, F.F. Bruce, Charles Welch, to name a few of his original researchers.
So, when Dictor had enough $$ and "trained personnel", the security team, "Bless Patrol", guns, malpacks etc., took over and the goon squad began in earnest in 1975 under the guise of "spiritual vigilance and CP# 1" against the reprogrammers and the seedboy-led trinitarian denominations which were out to kill him and "the minus-tray of the word" we all stood for. Oh the humanity!......LOL!
Add to the growing malignant paranoid narcissism, alcoholism, neo-Nazi politics and Aryan theology, stir in a little of Nietche's "Ubermensch" and a lot of sexual predation and serial rape, and you've got a lot to protect, eh? Surround yourself with family and corpses and build your kingdom. Grab guys like MacMullan, Quillen, Geer, Wajnberg, and some other psychopathic ex-marines, Green Berets, and general whackos, give 'em guns and "training" and turn them loose. First on the enemies without.....then, more sinisterly, the enemies within. The whole gun/security/bless patrol/goon squad thing was produced not by fear, but rather by a massive malignant paranoid narcissist's vain and self-serving ego trip. Sheesh!
The surrounding of himself with an armed security detail and a tight entourage was not out of fear as much as it was out of malignant narcissism.
My first summer school in 1971, dictor was everybody's pal. He walked around in shorts and overalls and hung out with his keedz. Lots of pizza and beer or burger nights, dances with secular rock and R&B music. There was no dress code other than Sunday nights and corpse nights (Tuesday's back then). Lots of laughter and music in prep for the first ROA.
But, by the time of my first year in-Rez, it was already changing. As it turned out, I had an affinity for being hailed into dictor's office over the loudspeakers in the courtyard for personal reproof and correction meetings frequently during my first 4 months in the corpse. The first one, I entered his office smoking a cigarette and sat down without asking permission. OMG!....you'd think the world was ending! Dictor screams at me, "Stand up!".
Would you walk into the office of President Nixon smoking a .... cigarette?". I quickly shot back, "I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near old tricky dick's office VP!" I was then ordered at top vein-popping volume, to get the .... outta his sight and never call him "VP" again! Never got around to yelling at me for whatever he called me in for.
But, I began to see that malignant narcissistic delusional grandeur of dictor as the man-o-gawd. Comparing himself to Nixon as worthy of the same care, concern, respect and treatment for himself as the most important man on the Earth.....the greatest Apostle since Paul in the first centur, expositor of the great mystery, whose "specialty" was "the holy spirit field" which he co-opted and blatantNtly plagiarized from J.E. Stiles, B.G. Leonard, E.W. Bullinger, Kenyon, Pillai, Lamsa, Glenn Clark, Rufus Mosely, Starr Daily, Oswald Chambers, Rosalind Rinker, F.F. Bruce, Charles Welch, to name a few of his original researchers.
So, when Dictor had enough $ and "trained personnel", the security team, "Bless Patrol", guns, malpacks etc., took over and the goon squad began in earnest in 1975 under the guise of "spiritual vigilance and CP# 1" against the reprogrammers and the seedboy-led trinitarian denominations which were out to kill him and "the minus-tray of the word" we all stood for. Oh the humanity!......LOL!
Add to the growing malignant paranoid narcissism, alcoholism, neo-Nazi politics and Aryan theology, stir in a little of Nietche's "Ubermensch" and a lot of sexual predation and serial rape, and you've got a lot to protect, eh? Surround yourself with family and corpses and build your kingdom. Grab guys like MacMullan, Quillen, Geer, Wajnberg, and some other psychopathic ex-marines, Green Berets, and general whackos, give 'em guns and "training" and turn them loose. First on the enemies without.....then, more sinisterly, the enemies within. The whole gun/security/bless patrol/goon squad thing was produced not by fear, but rather by a massive malignant paranoid narcissist's vain and self-serving ego trip. Sheesh!
So, to the people who defend VP having bodyguards for self protection, like the Pope has (a Corps grad actually told me this recently when she accused me of being "angry" on one of my website posts) I guess I will refer them to this-here-post. Thanks for spelling this out!
I remember talking with a Twig Leader from Louisiana, years ago. He had a PFAL student who came to class armed. You never know when you might have to shoot your way out of a Bible class! :lol:
In a subculture (cult) where he was highly revered (worshiped), would it not be natural for someone to introduce the idea without him explicitly asking for it?
That auditorium was named before he died, right? Didn't he feign modesty over it?
I don't buy any suggestion that he wasn't fully on board with all the adulation.
I think of the Prez of the USA and the vast motorcade that carries him around.
The henchmen and heavies that apparently surrounded VPW (he was dead before I got too involved, so no personal knowledge). I don't disbelief the reports.
Even pop stars and other celebs have heavies to protect them (or enhance their egos).
And I think of the Queen of England, a tiny woman only 5'2", who walks about, stands about, stands in open motor vehicles. With very little obvious protection detail. I have been at an event where she has been so close I could have reached out and touched her (she wouldn't mind; the very discreet SAS would have been watching veeerrry carefully). You (as Americans) might think she has little or no power; you'd be wrong. Simply, she is understated in all she does.
She is the head of the Anglican church and always goes to church on Sundays (usually driving herself there) and sits quietly in some random pew (nowhere special, not the pew reserved for her.) She means it when she prays for her people, prays for God's strength in her life. But that's not a part of her public face; few actually see that. She herself writes, and records, a Christmas message and always mentions Jesus Christ and his accomplishments, and if you read through the speeches, she quietly explains the gospel message - to the world.
Oh, and she never rants or raves at people.
If the cornfield clown had been shot at.killed, it's hard to see what difference, in world terms, that would make.
If the Queen had been killed, there would have been international mourning.
Twinky, I do think your point is valid; why does the Queen of England have so little protection whereas VPW had armed bodyguards?? I never understood
why he needed his bodyguards to have guns. I wonder if perhaps he felt that some people might come after him for what he did to some of the women. A lot of people would be upset if the Queen died; if Rosie R., or Craig died, who would care. I'm sure that some might mourn their passing. I wouldn't nor would I pretend too.
And speaking of narcissism, who would ask people to write a book about all the great one-liners he said. (Life Lines)
Even my Waybrain thought that was a bit much. One of them was "Life in the fast lane". Hellooo, the Eagles wrote that.
Well, seeing as VP's story seems to parallel a lot of stories you would hear on MTV's "Behind the Music" about rock stars, motor coaches, alcohol, and women, that quote really isn't such a huge surprise.
Origin:
"Glenn Frey revealed that the title came to him one day when he was riding on the freeway with a drug dealer known as "The Count".[1] Frey asked the dealer to slow down and the response was, "What do you mean? It's life in the fast lane!"["
One of the interesting things to reflect on about the collaterals is that many of the chapters were put together from Sunday service notes from VPs sermons. Teachings were summarized and written in a chapter format.
So basically doctrine for TWI has devolved from individuals researching the Bible to a "cargo cult" like following of VP's teachings from the freewheeling 60s and early 70s. Oh, and not the mainstream class ones, but the secondary teachings, because PFAL was re-taught twice. It is kind of ironic to note that in all likelihood the entire basis for re-regurgitation that the ministry survives on currently are several teachings which probably represent less than 7 days of VP's effort in research. I mean most of the children's Sunday School level material in the blue book is that way. Like one example - "How to Avoid Being a Failure". This chapter basically consists of plagiarizing one of KC Pillai's oriental customs teachings on 10 pieces of silver, and a poem probably lifted from anonymous.
I mean this really represents the dumbing down of Christianity.
Quite a contrast from Jesus sitting with all the elders discussing the scrolls as a youth.
... I mean most of the children's Sunday School level material in the blue book is that way. Like one example - "How to Avoid Being a Failure". This chapter basically consists of plagiarizing one of KC Pillai's oriental customs teachings on 10 pieces of silver, and a poem probably lifted from anonymous.
I mean this really represents the dumbing down of Christianity.
Quite a contrast from Jesus sitting with all the elders discussing the scrolls as a youth.
Your post got me to see a weird juxtaposition – contrasting the “ministry” of vp and Jesus’ ministry in the gospels. In the opening of the PFAL class when vp was expounding on John 10:10 / the more abundant life – vp said if God’s Word was not reliable in John 10:10 – if Jesus lied to us - then how could it be reliable in other places – in other words - how could we trust it – (it was something along those lines – it’s been a long time since I actually listened to PFAL)…
What if a similar criterion could be applied to “the teacher”….(cough – ahem)…vp. If he lied to us about PFAL coming from all his own research - or he lied to us when he said God audibly told him He would teach vp the Word like it has not be known since the 1st century…then why should we trust him on anything else?!?!
'cause some verses which aren't (never were) addressed to us are misapplied? (pfal has some issues, no doubt...)
Or, pick and sing the (parts of) verses that ring a bell
like... cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and... (you know the rest, but it's easier to just take bits and pieces.)
The tree of knowledge of good and evil evidently had/has both good and evil.
Evidently the problem is, it blinds us to the truth.
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skyrider
"Fast forward to a fourth generation being born. Numerous requests from insiders to go on Staff and change from within. By this time, my life had changed. The grind of finally getting (and keeping) a real job meant hard work. I began to feel like everything in the ministry was a motion. Same old collaterals. The articles in the magazine were SOOOO predictable, as were the overly scripted services."
REALITY HITS HOME.......there is nothing like finances, family and career choices
staring you in the face and all you get from twi is "renew your mind" tripe.
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Bolshevik
The altered reality.
Trembling bodies as folks surrounded and licked their lips.
Blunt objects used to caste out devil spirits.
The Way International. The Word of God.
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Bolshevik
TWI is VIOLENCE.
VPW yelled, VPW raped . . . is there more?
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WordWolf
When we're talking vpw, of course there is.
When he was young, he was a neighborhood bully, the son of a man known for yelling a lot.
He co-opted the hippie movement, but in private, he taught them conspiracy tinhat stuff
from the john Birch Society, and all that fear always includes a side-order of violence
in response to the main-course of FEAR! vpw was fond of having ARMED bodyguards,
and made comments to the corps like how this person should be shot or that one should
be shot. One time, one military veteran heard this, and began packing to go off and
shoot that person-one poster here talked him into unpacking and staying instead.
As for lcm, his "style" largely consisted of yelling. vpw cursed in private a lot- but
lcm did it in public a lot- parents reported their children having learned to curse
specifically FROM lcm.
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CollateralDamage
I cannot speak to physical harm or violence, but the verbal intimidation and servitude was right up there.
I was once brow-beaten for 10 straight minutes about wearing jeans as part of a set-up crew. We were cleaning bathrooms. That had already been cleaned. But casually nice meant khakis, and God wants you to clean the crappers with Dockers.
One of a thousand such examples. But physical, not in my post-fog experience. Everything was set up to show the caste system and make you want to move up the ladder and gain more control. Coordinate something or someone.
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TLC
Strange, what sparks certain memories...
A flashback to a 1st corps talking of some incident with seed boys, and wc being seen as the spiritual blackboots...
(which of course, brings the Schutzstaffel to mind)
some ego development program, eh?
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T-Bone
I'm almost halfway thru the book Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief by Lawrence Wright, and then I happened upon this thread. And I thought the similarities I found around pages 177 to 182 were worth posting. I guess there's only so many ways one can try to manipulate and control people – maybe all cult leaders think alike…. I don't know…
….anyway wanted to mention a few points Wright makes that go along the theme of this thread…some of Wright's points (listed below) refer to the work of Robert Jay Lifton a young American psychiatrist who began studying victims of what Chinese Communists called thought reform:
Dogma is promoted as incontestable (or as Wright puts it scientifically incontestable).
Resistance is not just immoral; it's illogical and unscientific.
Language is constricted by thought-terminating clichés; complex issues are compressed into brief, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.
The combination of enforced logic and clichéd discourse creates a kind of melodrama – formulaic thoughts and handicapped language substitute for real emotions and hamper a complex understanding of human nature.
Going Clear also makes reference to a pamphlet supposedly from a speech by the head of the Soviet Secret Police under Stalin – the text specifies how to realign the goals of the individual with those of the group:
Undermine the ability of the person to think and act on their own.
Destroy loyalty to family.
Destroy loyalty to friends.
Ultimately, all other emotional claims on the person have been broken; only the State or the group remains.
Going Clear by Wright
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Twinky
Fear. Surrounding by bodyguards.
I think of the Prez of the USA and the vast motorcade that carries him around.
The henchmen and heavies that apparently surrounded VPW (he was dead before I got too involved, so no personal knowledge). I don't disbelief the reports.
Even pop stars and other celebs have heavies to protect them (or enhance their egos).
And I think of the Queen of England, a tiny woman only 5'2", who walks about, stands about, stands in open motor vehicles. With very little obvious protection detail. I have been at an event where she has been so close I could have reached out and touched her (she wouldn't mind; the very discreet SAS would have been watching veeerrry carefully). You (as Americans) might think she has little or no power; you'd be wrong. Simply, she is understated in all she does.
She is the head of the Anglican church and always goes to church on Sundays (usually driving herself there) and sits quietly in some random pew (nowhere special, not the pew reserved for her.) She means it when she prays for her people, prays for God's strength in her life. But that's not a part of her public face; few actually see that. She herself writes, and records, a Christmas message and always mentions Jesus Christ and his accomplishments, and if you read through the speeches, she quietly explains the gospel message - to the world.
Oh, and she never rants or raves at people.
If the cornfield clown had been shot at.killed, it's hard to see what difference, in world terms, that would make.
If the Queen had been killed, there would have been international mourning.
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waysider
Fear. Surrounding by bodyguards.
I think of the Prez of the USA and the vast motorcade that carries him around.
The henchmen and heavies that apparently surrounded VPW (he was dead before I got too involved, so no personal knowledge). I don't disbelief the reports.
Even pop stars and other celebs have heavies to protect them (or enhance their egos).
There's a paradox here, Twinky. Here was this guy who railed against fear, championed the *law of believing*, scolded those who couldn't believe for healing or wealth, chastised those who demonstrated the least bit of fear. And, yet , there he was, surrounding himself with armed thugs, guarding against the thing he feared...retaliation from disgruntled followers. Where was his own *believing* to be more than a conqueror, abiding in the safety of the Lord's watchful eye?
It had much greater significance than the usual bodyguards of celebrities we've come to expect.
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Twinky
Exactly, Waysider.
Who was he afraid of, anyway?
Where was God's hedge of protection around him? (ah, wait: a hedge isn't bullet-proof)
You know what killed that little man? It was FEAR.
...Not to mention, cancer, alcoholism, and mean spiritedness.
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DontWorryBeHappy
The surrounding of himself with an armed security detail and a tight entourage was not out of fear as much as it was out of malignant narcissism.
My first summer school in 1971, dictor was everybody's pal. He walked around in shorts and overalls and hung out with his keedz. Lots of pizza and beer or burger nights, dances with secular rock and R&B music. There was no dress code other than Sunday nights and corpse nights (Tuesday's back then). Lots of laughter and music in prep for the first ROA.
But, by the time of my first year in-Rez, it was already changing. As it turned out, I had an affinity for being hailed into dictor's office over the loudspeakers in the courtyard for personal reproof and correction meetings frequently during my first 4 months in the corpse. The first one, I entered his office smoking a cigarette and sat down without asking permission. OMG!....you'd think the world was ending! Dictor screams at me, "Stand up!".
Would you walk into the office of President Nixon smoking a .... cigarette?". I quickly shot back, "I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near old tricky dick's office VP!" I was then ordered at top vein-popping volume, to get the .... outta his sight and never call him "VP" again! Never got around to yelling at me for whatever he called me in for.
But, I began to see that malignant narcissistic delusional grandeur of dictor as the man-o-gawd. Comparing himself to Nixon as worthy of the same care, concern, respect and treatment for himself as the most important man on the Earth.....the greatest Apostle since Paul in the first centur, expositor of the great mystery, whose "specialty" was "the holy spirit field" which he co-opted and blatantNtly plagiarized from J.E. Stiles, B.G. Leonard, E.W. Bullinger, Kenyon, Pillai, Lamsa, Glenn Clark, Rufus Mosely, Starr Daily, Oswald Chambers, Rosalind Rinker, F.F. Bruce, Charles Welch, to name a few of his original researchers.
So, when Dictor had enough $$ and "trained personnel", the security team, "Bless Patrol", guns, malpacks etc., took over and the goon squad began in earnest in 1975 under the guise of "spiritual vigilance and CP# 1" against the reprogrammers and the seedboy-led trinitarian denominations which were out to kill him and "the minus-tray of the word" we all stood for. Oh the humanity!......LOL!
Add to the growing malignant paranoid narcissism, alcoholism, neo-Nazi politics and Aryan theology, stir in a little of Nietche's "Ubermensch" and a lot of sexual predation and serial rape, and you've got a lot to protect, eh? Surround yourself with family and corpses and build your kingdom. Grab guys like MacMullan, Quillen, Geer, Wajnberg, and some other psychopathic ex-marines, Green Berets, and general whackos, give 'em guns and "training" and turn them loose. First on the enemies without.....then, more sinisterly, the enemies within. The whole gun/security/bless patrol/goon squad thing was produced not by fear, but rather by a massive malignant paranoid narcissist's vain and self-serving ego trip. Sheesh!
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WordWolf
That's funny.
I would have thought the guards were primarily just off the narcissism.
The same thing that said others were supposed to stand when he entered
the room, and "I have my own plane like the US President" and
"wear formalwear when interviewing me!" and so on.
Like when he bragged about "having his own plane" (the one twi owned
and not him) to the passenger next to him on that commercial flight
to Alaska. "See? I have bodyguards like the US President."
I didn't think about all the people he legitimately teed off in
addition to the cache of having bodyguards.
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penworks
So, to the people who defend VP having bodyguards for self protection, like the Pope has (a Corps grad actually told me this recently when she accused me of being "angry" on one of my website posts) I guess I will refer them to this-here-post. Thanks for spelling this out!
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GeorgeStGeorge
I remember talking with a Twig Leader from Louisiana, years ago. He had a PFAL student who came to class armed. You never know when you might have to shoot your way out of a Bible class!
:lol:
George
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outandabout
Wow. We're lucky we didn't end up like Jonestown.
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outandabout
And speaking of narcissism, who would ask people to write a book about all the great one-liners he said. (Life Lines)
Even my Waybrain thought that was a bit much. One of them was "Life in the fast lane". Hellooo, the Eagles wrote that.
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TLC
Wasn't by his request, as I recall it.
But, maybe somebody knows something I don't.
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Rocky
How does that preclude malignant narcissism?
In a subculture (cult) where he was highly revered (worshiped), would it not be natural for someone to introduce the idea without him explicitly asking for it?
That auditorium was named before he died, right? Didn't he feign modesty over it?
I don't buy any suggestion that he wasn't fully on board with all the adulation.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, I do think your point is valid; why does the Queen of England have so little protection whereas VPW had armed bodyguards?? I never understood
why he needed his bodyguards to have guns. I wonder if perhaps he felt that some people might come after him for what he did to some of the women. A lot of people would be upset if the Queen died; if Rosie R., or Craig died, who would care. I'm sure that some might mourn their passing. I wouldn't nor would I pretend too.
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chockfull
Well, seeing as VP's story seems to parallel a lot of stories you would hear on MTV's "Behind the Music" about rock stars, motor coaches, alcohol, and women, that quote really isn't such a huge surprise.
Origin:
"Glenn Frey revealed that the title came to him one day when he was riding on the freeway with a drug dealer known as "The Count".[1] Frey asked the dealer to slow down and the response was, "What do you mean? It's life in the fast lane!"["
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Twinky
Grace, I don't think she has "little protection" - I know the opposite is true.
Key phrase is " very little obvious protection detail." We keep things a bit lower key here in the UK.
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chockfull
One of the interesting things to reflect on about the collaterals is that many of the chapters were put together from Sunday service notes from VPs sermons. Teachings were summarized and written in a chapter format.
So basically doctrine for TWI has devolved from individuals researching the Bible to a "cargo cult" like following of VP's teachings from the freewheeling 60s and early 70s. Oh, and not the mainstream class ones, but the secondary teachings, because PFAL was re-taught twice. It is kind of ironic to note that in all likelihood the entire basis for re-regurgitation that the ministry survives on currently are several teachings which probably represent less than 7 days of VP's effort in research. I mean most of the children's Sunday School level material in the blue book is that way. Like one example - "How to Avoid Being a Failure". This chapter basically consists of plagiarizing one of KC Pillai's oriental customs teachings on 10 pieces of silver, and a poem probably lifted from anonymous.
I mean this really represents the dumbing down of Christianity.
Quite a contrast from Jesus sitting with all the elders discussing the scrolls as a youth.
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T-Bone
Your post got me to see a weird juxtaposition – contrasting the “ministry” of vp and Jesus’ ministry in the gospels. In the opening of the PFAL class when vp was expounding on John 10:10 / the more abundant life – vp said if God’s Word was not reliable in John 10:10 – if Jesus lied to us - then how could it be reliable in other places – in other words - how could we trust it – (it was something along those lines – it’s been a long time since I actually listened to PFAL)…
What if a similar criterion could be applied to “the teacher”….(cough – ahem)…vp. If he lied to us about PFAL coming from all his own research - or he lied to us when he said God audibly told him He would teach vp the Word like it has not be known since the 1st century…then why should we trust him on anything else?!?!
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TLC
so, just chuck the whole thing... eh?
'cause some verses which aren't (never were) addressed to us are misapplied? (pfal has some issues, no doubt...)
Or, pick and sing the (parts of) verses that ring a bell
like... cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and... (you know the rest, but it's easier to just take bits and pieces.)
The tree of knowledge of good and evil evidently had/has both good and evil.
Edited by TLCEvidently the problem is, it blinds us to the truth.
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