To The Very End......Wierwille's Wantonness

[Rocky]

MRAP....you seem to be missing the point.

Wierwille was a man of wantonness [unrestrained, loose, wasteful, no moral fiber, etc]....

and patterns of this unrestrained doctrine are embedded thru his teachings.

But....this list: 1) swelling words of vanity, 2) alluring others, 3) lusts of the flesh,

4) through much wantonness, 5) living in error, 6) promise followers liberty,

7) wierwille served corruption, 8) a false teacher brings BONDAGE to followers

is the tell-tale signs of A FALSE TEACHER.

As you (or somebody) mentioned Victor Barnard today on another thread, it seems important to note that Wierwille's wantonness naturally spawned a psychopath/sociopath like Barnard who brazenly tailored false doctrine to rationalize gratification of his sexual desires with underage girls... and how he conned those girls' parents.

[skyrider]

One other thing, when on the field (WOW 1973) it was wrong to have "sex" with an unbeliever because that would be like having sex with an animal, you know, they were catagorized as the same - without spirit. So, what else is left, your sisters: I declined that option because I thought it wrong. Now I learn differenctly. Actually, I understand the concept - now, keep it in the family cause outside the family will possibly draw you away from your WOW mission (guess they never met a USN Sailor. we stayed on mission, regardless).

Sorry, just a bit of levity but I am serious about that whole sex stuff. My 4th corp and then 5th corp branch leaders had a whole different view on sex that I was not comfortable with. Silly me, it's O.K. to have sex with a twig husband and not just pick up a guy in a bar. Bottom line up front (bluf), none of that quite passed the smell test.

One more thing.....

Wierwille was a 62 year old sexual predator when he lured corps women [that I know] onto his motor coach.

The guy was a sleazy, lustful GRANDPA that, by first-hand accounts given, sought out corps women for blow jobs.

Okay? Got the picture? Now, do you still want to equate this with 24 year old corps guys on the field?

MRAP....you obviously have this vendetta against a couple of corps people some 40 years ago, but there is a VAST DIFFERENCE between a young man with unproper boundaries and hormones raging versus a 62 year old "man of the cloth" sexually preying on 20 year old girls. Imagine the untold psychologically damage for years to come. This was sexual predation....not by some young guy, or his father....but like his father's father. A GROPING GRANDPA.

No matter how many times this sex stuff in twi comes up......none of it is anywhere near the ballpark of wierwille's sins. That's why I singled out [no pun intended] the aspect of "wantonness" in that list......to spotlight wierwille's aging and corrosive lead pipes that were contaminating every house and community [ie Flint, Michigan]. This contaminated all connected to the source. Wantonness is like a pipeline. One of many.

.

Edited March 18, 2016 by skyrider

[skyrider]

As you (or somebody) mentioned Victor Barnard today on another thread, it seems important to note that Wierwille's wantonness naturally spawned a psychopath/sociopath like Barnard who brazenly tailored false doctrine to rationalize gratification of his sexual desires with underage girls... and how he conned those girls' parents.

Yes.....that was me connecting Victor Barnard to wierwille's conduit of wantonness.

Victor Barnard

Victor Barnard......14th corps grad. He brazenly grafted the wierwille doctrine as his own

and spent YEARS in a secluded commune taking wierwille wantonness to a whole new level of

sexual succession. Thankfully, after fleeing to Brazil.....he was captured.

Victor Barnard CAPTURED

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Ya know Skyrider....."to the very end" is a loaded phrase for me because it is so stunningly literal.

Vic took his perverted pathological delusions with him to the grave. He put on his last production, his last ROA closing night, as his epitaph to himself. His athletes of the spirit to end it all with his staged "turning my face to the wall to die" routine. THAT's why he could only trust one guy on the whole planet it to be executive producer.....psychogeer.

I saw vic the day he came back from Gartmore in May of 1985. Or, I should say, I saw the icteric rotting shell of what was left of him. Met him at the airport, Logan, and was the only one of our small greeting party to go onto the coach, which Geer was now back in charge of, while Peter and Christie Edmond seved as complete human crutches. He had called me onboard because he brought me two six packs of my German grandfather's favorite beer.....Moninger.....as a good-bye gift. All he was, was his paranoid narcissistic delusions smashed on morphine and Drambuie. The creep behind the curtain had been exposed. He turned out to be a wretched gnome of a creature.....Rumpelstilsken-esque....some medieval horror story caricature of a man of gawd. He was only his delusions now. No attachment to anything resembling reality or remorse. Nope! He was gonna commit suicide for God for all to see that Vic was the only true head of twit 4EVER, and the ONLY real mog of the 20th century, the last Paul of Tarsus. The greatest "teaching prophet" since Paul, and the only great king since David, "a man after god's own heart". You, my surrogates are to blame. YOU forced me to do this! YOU, in effect, killed me and my ministry!

Vic was the one who destroyed twi. If he couldn't have it nobody else could either. There was NEVER an ounce of remorse for the hundreds he had raped and abused. In his fog they were lucky to have been assaulted by him. Everyone who ever knew him was lucky as far as he was concerned. He built it all and now he was taking it with him. There was no guilt. There was no shame. There was no need to repent. He never did anything wrong! It was everybody else's fault. Vic was just a victim. He was living his dreams now. He had become the man he wished to be and he did it his way. Sociopathic, paranoiac narcissist, alcoholic neoNazi sexual predator, racist and misogynist extraordinaire. The mighty man'o'gawd Pauline style. Lying and cheating his way through life and now death. What an utterly detestable fraud.

[shortfuse]

Dang, man, that's some heavy -ish.

You know from my POV, The Way wasn't really destroyed with VPW because, although I grew up in the way at the end of his life, I was in the Corps as an adult under LCM and later Rosalie. It was alive still in as much as it was still actively scarring those of us who were still around.

Anyway, this idea of destroying The Way is interesting to me because looking back from my perspective, Craig seemed to be doing that almost on purpose. I can definitely see the point you are making too. But with the craiggers, all that dumb purging stuff he did, all the mark and avoid, and putting ALL the Corps on the payroll. These things seemed so self evidently "bad for business". Looking back it makes me think maybe Craig was doing it intentionally.

Do you agree and if so, do you think Vic appointed him for this purpose intentionally as well?

Edited March 18, 2016 by shortfuse

[MRAP]

I pointed out in an earlier post that vpw either taught wantonness or it was learned by example. I does not matter how old you are, it's still sick and to take advantage of brothers and sisters sexually, is bottom toilet bowl thinking.

It seems to be assummed that the corp folk/branch leaders I was talking about were males, no, both were females.

Yes, yes, I understand the thread topic was about vpw's wantonness but I was pointing out that he passed on that craft to others.

[Rocky]

I pointed out in an earlier post that vpw either taught wantonness or it was learned by example. I does not matter how old you are, it's still sick and to take advantage of brothers and sisters sexually, is bottom toilet bowl thinking.

It seems to be assumed that the corp folk/branch leaders I was talking about were males, no, both were females.

Yes, yes, I understand the thread topic was about vpw's wantonness but I was pointing out that he passed on that craft to others.

Yeah, he certainly did. and no question there were female predators in the mix.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Hi Shortfuse!

No, I do not think da forehead did what he did "intentionally" to destroy twit a la vic. He was just too plain DUMB to plan the religious insanity and blind extremism. The real "hater" of twit on that version of the board of terrorists was Donnie. He hated his old man and he hated the fact that the old man ruined donnie's life by making him an offer he couldn't refuse, VP of twit until death. Donnie became the monster his old man had wanted. He was the one Vic wanted as 2nd prez, not the dumb ape jock from OK. But the whole of twit knew Donnie was as good a front man as Tick. No public speaking prowess at all. About as captivating as a lava rock. As motivational in public speaking as Mitch McConnell on opiates.

So.....he made Donnie VP, and found some jerk to be the frontman he wanted because he knew Donnie and Coward would be able to control him while running the money and politics of twit themselves. Da forehead dancing and screwing was good enough for them. Let him THINK he's mog jr. when in effect he's just the public face of the crap we're pulling on everyone in the name of gawd. Vic realized he made a bad choice, but he made it so publicly and grandiosely that there was no way he could undo it. He wanted Donnie in charge, but instead picked the Okie Dope cuz he thought he would totally be under the thumb of Don and coward. But, the dumb jock BELIEVED he was called of gawd. He believed he spoke for gawd and gawd spoke with him, but it was obvious to everybody that the dancing president was a total buffoon intellectually, and interpersonally. Spirits in the Athlete was the final horror that took vic out. He hated it and he hated da forehead for doing it and looking like the dumb ape he was. He was hoping Geer would do the heavy lifting dumping the dancing prez, embarrass Donnie and coward enough to get them in line, and then set up Donnie as prez until Luke Somerville, real Wierwille blood was old enough to take over from Donnie for grampa mog. But, Geer liked being King......another quirk Vic's revelation missed. It turned out that Geer liked being vic and impersonated him quite well. Donnie was always the main target of vic's wrath, not Okie Dope. Don was the one deserving punishment. King Okie was just a tool & they ALL knew it. So, once Donnie got Okie Dope to tell Geer to bug off, he built his old man's Frankenstein through da forehead and destroys his father's family, his siblings and his own mother, along with his father's minus-try. Wanda's married to Coward now, the only Emeritus Trustees of any of them to own their own "root locale" at Gunnison, so that cuts out all the wierwilles from twi. Donna and Rosalie own new Knoxville and Howard and Don got Gunnison. Tidy package of crapola all wrapped and ready for an early xmas.

Does that answer your question Shortfuse?

Edited March 19, 2016 by DontWorryBeHappy

[WordWolf]

I pointed out in an earlier post that vpw either taught wantonness or it was learned by example. I does not matter how old you are, it's still sick and to take advantage of brothers and sisters sexually, is bottom toilet bowl thinking.

It seems to be assummed that the corp folk/branch leaders I was talking about were males, no, both were females.

Yes, yes, I understand the thread topic was about vpw's wantonness but I was pointing out that he passed on that craft to others.

To some people, he definitely taught wantonness. lcm was willing to follow vpw off a cliff.

vpw told him that he'd need to "loosen up sexually" or that he would be unable to minister

to God's people. That's just one example. He also set up the elaborate NETWORK. There was a

system to FIND the women to victimize, a system to set up the victimization, the system to

"exit counsel" the victims, and the system to kick them out and smear their names if they

looked like they would talk. vpw put more work into that than he did into actually

studying the Bible, since he mostly just faked doing his own research, and he set up his own

rape-system from scratch.

Ya know Skyrider....."to the very end" is a loaded phrase for me because it is so stunningly literal.

Vic took his perverted pathological delusions with him to the grave. He put on his last production, his last ROA closing night, as his epitaph to himself. His athletes of the spirit to end it all with his staged "turning my face to the wall to die" routine. THAT's why he could only trust one guy on the whole planet it to be executive producer.....psychogeer.

I saw vic the day he came back from Gartmore in May of 1985. Or, I should say, I saw the icteric rotting shell of what was left of him. Met him at the airport, Logan, and was the only one of our small greeting party to go onto the coach, which Geer was now back in charge of, while Peter and Christie Edmond seved as complete human crutches. He had called me onboard because he brought me two six packs of my German grandfather's favorite beer.....Moninger.....as a good-bye gift. All he was, was his paranoid narcissistic delusions smashed on morphine and Drambuie. The creep behind the curtain had been exposed. He turned out to be a wretched gnome of a creature.....Rumpelstilsken-esque....some medieval horror story caricature of a man of gawd. He was only his delusions now. No attachment to anything resembling reality or remorse. Nope! He was gonna commit suicide for God for all to see that Vic was the only true head of twit 4EVER, and the ONLY real mog of the 20th century, the last Paul of Tarsus. The greatest "teaching prophet" since Paul, and the only great king since David, "a man after god's own heart". You, my surrogates are to blame. YOU forced me to do this! YOU, in effect, killed me and my ministry!

Vic was the one who destroyed twi. If he couldn't have it nobody else could either. There was NEVER an ounce of remorse for the hundreds he had raped and abused. In his fog they were lucky to have been assaulted by him. Everyone who ever knew him was lucky as far as he was concerned. He built it all and now he was taking it with him. There was no guilt. There was no shame. There was no need to repent. He never did anything wrong! It was everybody else's fault. Vic was just a victim. He was living his dreams now. He had become the man he wished to be and he did it his way. Sociopathic, paranoiac narcissist, alcoholic neoNazi sexual predator, racist and misogynist extraordinaire. The mighty man'o'gawd Pauline style. Lying and cheating his way through life and now death. What an utterly detestable fraud.

Funny thing about the lack of remorse to the end (a hallmark of psychopathic/sociopathic behavior)...

Someone who was on-grounds in his final hours said that vpw was in bed, and he said, sincerely,

that he was trying to figure it out. He knew that God's leaders could get healing if there wasn't

some obstruction in their lives, in their behavior, that prevented it. This is what had him

stumped. vpw was UNABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE HE'D BLOWN IT. A trail of abuse victims behind him,

and he was unable to think of a single instance in his life where he'd displeased God.

It's possible he was faking it to his literal last breath-

but I think he was telling the truth and literally thought God was ok with the rapes vpw did.

Either way, he went to his grave UNREPENTANT. If he knew it was wrong, he confessed NOTHING.

Dang, man, that's some heavy -ish.

You know from my POV, The Way wasn't really destroyed with VPW because, although I grew up in the way at the end of his life, I was in the Corps as an adult under LCM and later Rosalie. It was alive still in as much as it was still actively scarring those of us who were still around.

Anyway, this idea of destroying The Way is interesting to me because looking back from my perspective, Craig seemed to be doing that almost on purpose. I can definitely see the point you are making too. But with the craiggers, all that dumb purging stuff he did, all the mark and avoid, and putting ALL the Corps on the payroll. These things seemed so self evidently "bad for business". Looking back it makes me think maybe Craig was doing it intentionally.

Do you agree and if so, do you think Vic appointed him for this purpose intentionally as well?

Possibly the biggest difference between vpw and lcm:

vpw KNEW he was conning people.

lcm thought he was doing what God wanted-because he bought into vpw's con.

So, vpw knew when to hide his tracks, and lcm was proud of what he was doing.

Since he really thought vpw heard from God, he really thought he himself would hear from God

once he was anointed twi's next king.

So, he concluded that many or most fool thoughts he got after that were from God-

so he announced them or put them into action, and almost all of them were horrible ideas

that damaged twi more each time. lcm meant to serve God, but had been so completely deluded

by vpw and bought so completely into the whole act that he was unable to see when he

was doing wrong and would displease God.

Edited March 19, 2016 by WordWolf

[waysider]

It might be a good time to recommend THIS book again.

[skyrider]

Ya know Skyrider....."to the very end" is a loaded phrase for me because it is so stunningly literal.

Vic took his perverted pathological delusions with him to the grave. He put on his last production, his last ROA closing night, as his epitaph to himself. His athletes of the spirit to end it all with his staged "turning my face to the wall to die" routine. THAT's why he could only trust one guy on the whole planet it to be executive producer.....psychogeer.

No remorse, no shame.......

DEFIANTLY UNREPENTANT......conscience seared with a hot iron.

[skyrider]

I pointed out in an earlier post that vpw either taught wantonness or it was learned by example. I does not matter how old you are,

it's still sick and to take advantage of brothers and sisters sexually, is bottom toilet bowl thinking.

Well......it DOES MATTER to me. There is a huge chasm of difference between wierwille's sexual predation

ensconced as president/founder of an organization that stands at his pulpit every week to "speak for God"

as opposed to his young, zealous minions on the field who jump between the sheets.

Maybe.....that's why vic taught in pfal that all sins are the SAME in God's eyes. No big ones, no little ones.

If that's true, then why does the Book of Leviticus detail different levels of payment/punishment for certain types of sins?

If all trespasses and sins are considered the same, then why do the elders exact different judgments of payment?

Could this be ANOTHER ONE of wierwille's skating obfuscations in pfal to slip underneath the radar?? :nono5:/>/>

.

Edited March 19, 2016 by skyrider

[skyrider]

Spirits in the Athlete was the final horror......

The FINAL production in vic's honor in the Victor Paul Wierwille Auditorium

within weeks of his death.

[Rocky]

Funny thing about the lack of remorse to the end (a hallmark of psychopathic/sociopathic behavior)...

Someone who was on-grounds in his final hours said that vpw was in bed, and he said, sincerely,

that he was trying to figure it out. He knew that God's leaders could get healing if there wasn't

some obstruction in their lives, in their behavior, that prevented it. This is what had him

stumped. vpw was UNABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE HE'D BLOWN IT. A trail of abuse victims behind him,

and he was unable to think of a single instance in his life where he'd displeased God.

It's possible he was faking it to his literal last breath-

but I think he was telling the truth and literally thought God was ok with the rapes vpw did.

Either way, he went to his grave UNREPENTANT. If he knew it was wrong, he confessed NOTHING.

Human nature, as well as science that observes and describes it, suggests that he rationalized and justified his conduct from the start until the very end.

Mistakes Were Made (but not by me)

Well, I tried (three times) to put the link to the book with the title... but if you go to amazon.com and search for "Mistakes Were Made" by Tavris and Aronson, you'll find it.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Rocky

[DontWorryBeHappy]

they were no "mistakes" Rocky. He committed crimes. i know you know that. I just wanted to make it perfectly clear.

[WordWolf]

they were no "mistakes" Rocky. He committed crimes. i know you know that. I just wanted to make it perfectly clear.

To hear some people say it,

he had "human frailties",

which sounds like he cheated on his diet.

It really doesn't do justice to saying he was a rapist, a fraud, a simonist, a plagiarist,

an adulterer, a chain-smoker and alcoholic......

A FRACTION of the real list sounds scary to pair with a leadership position.

[Rocky]

they were no "mistakes" Rocky. He committed crimes. i know you know that. I just wanted to make it perfectly clear.

You're right. I know that. The book is about what goes on inside the mind of individuals (all of us) when we rationalize and self-justify.

The book also provides insight on why journalism today fails miserably in getting at the who, what, when, where, how and why of events because most (lazy) journalists simply

take what two opposing people/sides of stories say and report that as fact. And often, it's not fact but complete bs.

To hear some people say it,

he had "human frailties",

which sounds like he cheated on his diet.

It really doesn't do justice to saying he was a rapist, a fraud, a simonist, a plagiarist,

an adulterer, a chain-smoker and alcoholic......

A FRACTION of the real list sounds scary to pair with a leadership position.

Indeed.

[skyrider]

It really doesn't do justice to saying he was a rapist, a fraud, a simonist, a plagiarist,

an adulterer, a chain-smoker and alcoholic......

A FRACTION of the real list sounds scary to pair with a leadership position.

Would the following LIST up this FRACTION?

Wierwille was a sexual predator.

He used the Bible as a conduit for human trafficking, sexual slaves, lustful exploitation,

pathological experimentation and narcissistic adulation.

[skyrider]

Vic was the one who destroyed twi. If he couldn't have it nobody else could either. There was NEVER an ounce of remorse for the hundreds he had raped and abused. In his fog they were lucky to have been assaulted by him. Everyone who ever knew him was lucky as far as he was concerned. He built it all and now he was taking it with him. There was no guilt. There was no shame. There was no need to repent. He never did anything wrong! It was everybody else's fault. Vic was just a victim. He was living his dreams now. He had become the man he wished to be and he did it his way. Sociopathic, paranoiac narcissist, alcoholic neoNazi sexual predator, racist and misogynist extraordinaire. The mighty man'o'gawd Pauline style. Lying and cheating his way through life and now death. What an utterly detestable fraud.

Needs repeating!

Hitting it out of the park.....

[MRAP]

Just qurious here, was there ever erected a sculpture of vpw: like at the Ohio HQ, Gunderson, etc.?

Second question, was vpw buried on the farm around the pool next to his brother Harry? I paid alot of $ for that pool.

You know, since I am now retired, I have time to visit all these vastly important historical sites - kinda like the Civil War Battlefield tour. Is there a map that twi puts out where vpw nailed all his babes.

I mean, as long as I am on the road visiting other historical stuff, wouldn't that be "touching"; there might even be a glass case with the used condem with veeps crusty fluids - maybe I gotta go to Ohio HQ or Gunderson, CO to see such battlefield relics.

Yep, that forgiveness thing just ain't taking hold, shoot, I am joking, the concept is almost acceptable.

[Bolshevik]

Just qurious here, was there ever erected a sculpture of vpw: like at the Ohio HQ, Gunderson, etc.?

. . .

Yes.

[MRAP]

Yes.

I am so glad my ABS was spent for the advancement of the word of God, I only hope that the statue is lighted at night.

If I might ask, can you provide a photo or link to this abboration of brass.

[WordWolf]

I am so glad my ABS was spent for the advancement of the word of God, I only hope that the statue is lighted at night.

If I might ask, can you provide a photo or link to this abboration of brass.

The ugly bronze statue (and it is ugly) is in the Auditorium.

The 3 graves on-site are together by the fountain, vpw's is one.

[MRAP]

The ugly bronze statue (and it is ugly) is in the Auditorium.

The 3 graves on-site are together by the fountain, vpw's is one.

ini

Well thanks Wordwolf, that ends that bit of questions, it was not really keeping me up at night but it was something I thought a time or two about. So who: Harry, veep and Dorothy?

[waysider]

ini

Well thanks Wordwolf, that ends that bit of questions, it was not really keeping me up at night but it was something I thought a time or two about. So who: Harry, veep and Dorothy?

HERE

VP, Harry and, I think Ermal. (Not sure on the third one)

Dorothy got kicked to the curb...tossed off the property. Nice, eh?