I knew the color of my name-tag would finally change . . . and that when the Advanced Class was brought up in Fellowship I would no longer feel like all the eyes were staring at me . . .
Edited to add:
Instead of college fund . . . It was made sure that I had an Advanced Class fund.
I took the Advanced Class three times: in '78, '79 and in one of the years in residence as Family Corps (which was Fall of '84 to Summer of '86). My expectations were always very high. I had it stuck in my head one of VP's quips "sign, miracles, and wonders follow believers, class". I think that pretty much set me up for a "ministry life" of disappointment and frustration. I had hopes that each time I took the Advanced Class there would be a watershed moment and I would finally operate the power and revelation manifestations; this seemed like a valid expectation based upon my experience at the end of my first PFAL class (supposedly speaking in tongues just like in the Bible; sorry if that offends anyone; currently i am a Christian who believes God can do anything - even significant, miraculous and wonderful things - if and when He so chooses, but concerning the topic of the manifestations of the spirit i take the cessationist point of view ).
Advanced Class '78 memories: a hodgepodge of conspiracy theories, VP and LCM saying the Holocaust was a myth, rants to express their disdain for the Jews, that Satanic influence was behind everything, and The Beatles tune "Back in the U.S.S.R." was really a subliminal message to suck the U.S. into communism.
Advanced Class '79 memories: folks sharing some pretty weird experiences of having devil spirits cast out of them and teachings on the ever-growing ranks of those born of the seed of the serpent…Something I do when things get weird or too heavy – I start making jokes (just for comedic relief) – so I'd ask some folks there "do you think Mickey Mouse was wrong seed?"
Advanced Class in residence memory:Ghostbusters…yeah I said Ghostbusters (uh huh the movie). LCM kept talking about the movie The Exorcist as if he was going to show us that and then he rolls with Ghostbusters. Hmmmm – he must use the same trick I do when things get weird or too heavy. Though it was good for a laugh with friends.
I never witnessed firsthand displays of power or revelation manifestations – let alone experience any of them myself; Needless to say, I lacked confidence and enthusiasm – which sucks if you're going to be a PFAL salesman.
Whereas, the upside of disappointment and frustration was the solid toehold they provided for doubts – so that by the time of passing of the patriarch I felt compelled to question EVERYTHING about the ministry as the commotion ensued. And that was the beginning of my freedom!
Waysider, thank you for this thought provoking thread!
Advanced Class '78 memories: a hodgepodge of conspiracy theories, VP and LCM saying the Holocaust was a myth, rants to express their disdain for the Jews, that Satanic influence was behind everything, and The Beatles tune "Back in the U.S.S.R." was really a subliminal message to suck the U.S. into communism.
Waysider, thank you for this thought provoking thread!
The conspiracy theory mindset, holocaust crap (and his belief that he was free to lead his life of wantonness) is all directly tracable from the John Birch Society. JBS directly influenced wierwille through one of twi's earliest wealthy benefactors, JAL's father.
I entered Advanced Class '79 unsure about the deity of Jesus. I left convinced he was not God. So I learned something. Insights into the biblical accounts of "the big six" manifestations were good. I'm trying to remember what the two afternoon series were. I think they might have been LCM teaching the 8 Great Statements, and someone else teaching Jesus Christ the Twig Leader. I think both were delivered well, although my inability to recall the details may belie that.
I met some hot chicks, which is always a plus.
I also sat through the same AC a couple of times when it was offered "on the field." No new insights.
I took LCM's AC, when he rolled it out at Rome City. Not much to remember there, except his explanation of how the sound of a gun cocking could drive off devil spirits. (It's no good to possess someone with a hole blown through him.)
The conspiracy theory mindset, holocaust crap (and his belief that he was free to lead his life of wantonness) is all directly tracable from the John Birch Society. JBS directly influenced wierwille through one of twi's earliest wealthy benefactors, JAL's father.
Speaking of conspiracy theories and the John Birch Society, I'm curious is anyone (perhaps DWBH has some untold insight into this question) happens to know the specifics of who all might have "suddenly passed away" after "the meeting that wasn't" in the spring of '76. After all, that was the reason touted as to why none of the dire prospects for our country came to pass (being a result of our combined efforts of prayer and believing)...
Just wondering if there was any basis whatsoever as to why the "get ready for it" never happened
Speaking of conspiracy theories and the John Birch Society, I'm curious is anyone (perhaps DWBH has some untold insight into this question) happens to know the specifics of who all might have "suddenly passed away" after "the meeting that wasn't" in the spring of '76. After all, that was the reason touted as to why none of the dire prospects for our country came to pass (being a result of our combined efforts of prayer and believing)...
Just wondering if there was any basis whatsoever as to why the "get ready for it" never happened
This sounds familiar to something I experienced under LCM. (Which really upset me at the time).
We had a statewide newsletter called The Grapevine. It was printed out on one of those big, clunky old machines that used metal plates to affix the recipients name and address. (It was in the hallway of an upstairs room in the BRC of the state limb HQ.) One night, after our evening meal, in late 1975?, we were given an emergency project. We had to physically destroy the old metal plates immediately! so "they" would not have access to our membership rolls. (But remember, there were "no membership lists in The Way"...uh huh) All very hush hush. Never tell a living soul......This post, should you decide to read it, will self destruct in 5 seconds.
We had a statewide newsletter called The Grapevine. It was printed out on one of those big, clunky old machines that used metal plates to affix the recipients name and address. (It was in the hallway of an upstairs room in the BRC of the state limb HQ.) One night, after our evening meal, in late 1975?, we were given an emergency project. We had to physically destroy the old metal plates immediately! so "they" would not have access to our membership rolls. (But remember, there were "no membership lists in The Way"...uh huh) All very hush hush. Never tell a living soul......This post, should you decide to read it, will self destruct in 5 seconds.
I think I remember The Grapevine. The Grapevine was later renamed Household Heartbeat.
LCM had everyone in TWI accounted for, (including the field) for Y2K. I had to travel hundreds of miles for one week so I wouldn't go missing when the computers came alive and ate our brains. It was a big disturbance for me that came with unforeseen consequences. I was still a teenager so I couldn't argue too much.
Parallel horsecrude. "They" are gonna get you.
My guess, LCM was looking for opportunity to do what VPW did once. Or many times.
Wierwille allowed us to believe he was getting this information via divine revelation. In reality, as a follower of The Liberty Lobby, he was getting all that stuff from a newsletter called The Spotlight.
So, you didn't hear and weren't privy to the "too many key people" (of those that were heading up the takeover) suddenly died, and that's why it didn't happen?
I remember someone telling me that, now that I had this insider information, the devil was going to put me on his hit list, or something to that effect. I found myself wondering how it had all gone from "You, too, can have the more than abundant life!" to 'The debuhl's gonna snuff you out, boy." in such a short time. Do you see why it was depressing?
I remember someone telling me that, now that I had this insider information, the devil was going to put me on his hit list, or something to that effect. I found myself wondering how it had all gone from "You, too, can have the more than abundant life!" to 'The debuhl's gonna snuff you out, boy." in such a short time. Do you see why it was depressing?
All of the Corps ("they" had our names already - supposedly) were earmarked for concentration camps.
Waysider, I've also used to have frequent access to "The Book of Life". I was reminded since you mention the files you were destroying.
It was an old computer (with green block cursor) that listed everyone ever. Could look up how many classes you'd taken, if you still stood, and who marked and avoided you. (I used to meet some weirdos, could then look them up on the "Book of Life", just so I could know just HOW weird this person was, and then apply the appropriate level of weird back at them.)
If that information ever fell into the wrong hands, there would be no defense against THEM.
"So, you didn't hear and weren't privy to the "too many key people" (of those that were heading up the takeover) suddenly died, and that's why it didn't happen? ".......nope.
"So, you didn't hear and weren't privy to the "too many key people" (of those that were heading up the takeover) suddenly died, and that's why it didn't happen? ".......nope.
I've never heard that.
Instead of believing to cast out debil spurts and save people with God's love . . . they used the Power of Believing to go Old Testament on their orse?
TLC........where did you here what you reported here? What were the sources of what you were told? I never heard anything like that from dictor or the twustees. Never said at any Placements or "Leaders' meetings", and I attended everyone from 1977 through 1986. I'd like to know if you can tell us. TY.
TLC........where did you here what you reported here? What were the sources of what you were told? I never heard anything like that from dictor or the twustees. Never said at any Placements or "Leaders' meetings", and I attended everyone from 1977 through 1986. I'd like to know if you can tell us. TY.
Well, probably stuff from before 77. Some things are just hard to pinpoint an exact time or place for. Might have been rumors in the EOB building. So many "secret things," it's really hard to get anyone to remember, much less keep track of them all. But I suspect very little of it didn't start with vpw, as some of the JBS stuff must have worked its way into his thinking by 73, or 72.
"Marian Keech (real name: Dorothy Martin) was the leader of a UFO cult in the 1950s. She claimed to get messages from extraterrestrials, known as The Guardians, through automatic writing. Like the Heaven's Gate folks forty years later, Keech and her followers, known as The Seekers or The Brotherhood of the Seven Rays, were waiting to be picked up by flying saucers. In Keech's prophecy, her group of eleven was to be saved just before the earth was to be destroyed by a massive flood on December 21, 1954. When it became evident that there would be no flood and the Guardians weren't stopping by to pick them up, Keech
became elated. She said she'd just received a telepathic message from the Guardians saying that her group of believers had spread so much light with their unflagging faith that God had spared the world from the cataclysm (Levine 2003: 206).
More important, the Seekers didn't abandon her. Most became more devoted after the failed prophecy. (Only two left the cult when the world didn't end.) "Most disciples not only stayed but, having made that decision, were now even more convinced than before that Keech had been right all along....Being wrong turned them into true believers (ibid.)." Some people will go to bizarre lengths to avoid inconsistency between their cherished beliefs and the facts. But why do people interpret the same evidence in contrary ways?"
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waysider
Just so ya know...... Wierwille allowed us to believe he was getting this information via divine revelation. In reality, as a follower of The Liberty Lobby, he was getting all that stuff from a newsl
waysider
I remember someone telling me that, now that I had this insider information, the devil was going to put me on his hit list, or something to that effect. I found myself wondering how it had all gone fr
DontWorryBeHappy
I tend to agree with your last sentence, TLC. vic was fully into JBS by 1968. I was in-Rez from 73-76, and then was at all those other stupid meetings aforementioned. I never heard anything like what
WordWolf
I believed what I was told-
and it was built up at the really big, deep stuff.
I was personally told it would explain why mosquitoes exist as they do.
I expected stuff on a lot of revelation and power, in between really
deep things reserved for that level.
We covered some stuff on 6 "manifestations", but none of the other stuff.
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Bolshevik
I knew the color of my name-tag would finally change . . . and that when the Advanced Class was brought up in Fellowship I would no longer feel like all the eyes were staring at me . . .
Edited to add:
Instead of college fund . . . It was made sure that I had an Advanced Class fund.
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T-Bone
I took the Advanced Class three times: in '78, '79 and in one of the years in residence as Family Corps (which was Fall of '84 to Summer of '86). My expectations were always very high. I had it stuck in my head one of VP's quips "sign, miracles, and wonders follow believers, class". I think that pretty much set me up for a "ministry life" of disappointment and frustration. I had hopes that each time I took the Advanced Class there would be a watershed moment and I would finally operate the power and revelation manifestations; this seemed like a valid expectation based upon my experience at the end of my first PFAL class (supposedly speaking in tongues just like in the Bible; sorry if that offends anyone; currently i am a Christian who believes God can do anything - even significant, miraculous and wonderful things - if and when He so chooses, but concerning the topic of the manifestations of the spirit i take the cessationist point of view ).
Advanced Class '78 memories: a hodgepodge of conspiracy theories, VP and LCM saying the Holocaust was a myth, rants to express their disdain for the Jews, that Satanic influence was behind everything, and The Beatles tune "Back in the U.S.S.R." was really a subliminal message to suck the U.S. into communism.
Advanced Class '79 memories: folks sharing some pretty weird experiences of having devil spirits cast out of them and teachings on the ever-growing ranks of those born of the seed of the serpent…Something I do when things get weird or too heavy – I start making jokes (just for comedic relief) – so I'd ask some folks there "do you think Mickey Mouse was wrong seed?"
Advanced Class in residence memory: Ghostbusters…yeah I said Ghostbusters (uh huh the movie). LCM kept talking about the movie The Exorcist as if he was going to show us that and then he rolls with Ghostbusters. Hmmmm – he must use the same trick I do when things get weird or too heavy. Though it was good for a laugh with friends.
I never witnessed firsthand displays of power or revelation manifestations – let alone experience any of them myself; Needless to say, I lacked confidence and enthusiasm – which sucks if you're going to be a PFAL salesman.
Whereas, the upside of disappointment and frustration was the solid toehold they provided for doubts – so that by the time of passing of the patriarch I felt compelled to question EVERYTHING about the ministry as the commotion ensued. And that was the beginning of my freedom!
Waysider, thank you for this thought provoking thread!
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Rocky
The conspiracy theory mindset, holocaust crap (and his belief that he was free to lead his life of wantonness) is all directly tracable from the John Birch Society. JBS directly influenced wierwille through one of twi's earliest wealthy benefactors, JAL's father.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I entered Advanced Class '79 unsure about the deity of Jesus. I left convinced he was not God. So I learned something. Insights into the biblical accounts of "the big six" manifestations were good. I'm trying to remember what the two afternoon series were. I think they might have been LCM teaching the 8 Great Statements, and someone else teaching Jesus Christ the Twig Leader. I think both were delivered well, although my inability to recall the details may belie that.
I met some hot chicks, which is always a plus.
I also sat through the same AC a couple of times when it was offered "on the field." No new insights.
I took LCM's AC, when he rolled it out at Rome City. Not much to remember there, except his explanation of how the sound of a gun cocking could drive off devil spirits. (It's no good to possess someone with a hole blown through him.)
And I met some hot chicks.
George
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TLC
Speaking of conspiracy theories and the John Birch Society, I'm curious is anyone (perhaps DWBH has some untold insight into this question) happens to know the specifics of who all might have "suddenly passed away" after "the meeting that wasn't" in the spring of '76. After all, that was the reason touted as to why none of the dire prospects for our country came to pass (being a result of our combined efforts of prayer and believing)...
Just wondering if there was any basis whatsoever as to why the "get ready for it" never happened
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Bolshevik
This sounds familiar to something I experienced under LCM. (Which really upset me at the time).
May I ask what happened with JBS and TWI?
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TLC
Well, I'm more specifically referring to the event of 40 years ago.
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Bolshevik
I'm aware that many things happened before I was born.
I'm also aware that history repeats.
I'm also aware the TWI I experienced was a desperate and lame attempt to get back to 40 years ago.
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waysider
"get ready for it"
We had a statewide newsletter called The Grapevine. It was printed out on one of those big, clunky old machines that used metal plates to affix the recipients name and address. (It was in the hallway of an upstairs room in the BRC of the state limb HQ.) One night, after our evening meal, in late 1975?, we were given an emergency project. We had to physically destroy the old metal plates immediately! so "they" would not have access to our membership rolls. (But remember, there were "no membership lists in The Way"...uh huh) All very hush hush. Never tell a living soul......This post, should you decide to read it, will self destruct in 5 seconds.
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Bolshevik
I think I remember The Grapevine. The Grapevine was later renamed Household Heartbeat.
LCM had everyone in TWI accounted for, (including the field) for Y2K. I had to travel hundreds of miles for one week so I wouldn't go missing when the computers came alive and ate our brains. It was a big disturbance for me that came with unforeseen consequences. I was still a teenager so I couldn't argue too much.
Parallel horsecrude. "They" are gonna get you.
My guess, LCM was looking for opportunity to do what VPW did once. Or many times.
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waysider
Quite possible. Back then, though, it was renamed The Buckeye Cambium, in keeping with the theme of all things being tree related.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Just the fact that dictor got everybody scared enough to buy all the malpacks, store thousands of pounds of dried and canned food, hundreds of gallons of drinking water, hide millions of dollars of gold krugerands and USA junk silver in the limbs and regions so that when "it" came the corpse and wows would have money to get by, get all the limp and region guys to figure out rural, secret meeting places for the corpse in each limp to run off to and carry on the underground struggle like in Patrick Swayze in Red Sky. JUST us carrying out the moggy's rev was enough to prevent "it" from ever happening. That was the official spin. WE thwarted "it" by believing the mog's revelation. Our believing action saved the USA and twit from "it"! Never a hint that vic probably got the heavy revvy during a blinding drambuie Storm while banging some hapless corpse kitten in his motorcoach. Never a hint that his prophecies were false and that he was an Eli and not a Samuel. Just a way to stash all the cash while the IRS and DOJ were investigating vic'n'twit for illegal campaign contributions to Gahagan in ME & free-staffing him with a hundred POWOWS, and Jimmy Doop as free spiritual coordinator. IRS took twit's 501©3 away for 2 years. That was 76-78. Believing dictor's revelation and acting on it saved the country, the minustry and the world! That's how we did it Bolshevik.
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waysider
Just so ya know......
Wierwille allowed us to believe he was getting this information via divine revelation. In reality, as a follower of The Liberty Lobby, he was getting all that stuff from a newsletter called The Spotlight.
We thought he was "tapped in".
Hahahahahahahaha!
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TLC
So, you didn't hear and weren't privy to the "too many key people" (of those that were heading up the takeover) suddenly died, and that's why it didn't happen?
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waysider
I remember someone telling me that, now that I had this insider information, the devil was going to put me on his hit list, or something to that effect. I found myself wondering how it had all gone from "You, too, can have the more than abundant life!" to 'The debuhl's gonna snuff you out, boy." in such a short time. Do you see why it was depressing?
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TLC
All of the Corps ("they" had our names already - supposedly) were earmarked for concentration camps.
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Bolshevik
Waysider, I've also used to have frequent access to "The Book of Life". I was reminded since you mention the files you were destroying.
It was an old computer (with green block cursor) that listed everyone ever. Could look up how many classes you'd taken, if you still stood, and who marked and avoided you. (I used to meet some weirdos, could then look them up on the "Book of Life", just so I could know just HOW weird this person was, and then apply the appropriate level of weird back at them.)
If that information ever fell into the wrong hands, there would be no defense against THEM.
(edited to fix link)
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waysider
Who are
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DontWorryBeHappy
"So, you didn't hear and weren't privy to the "too many key people" (of those that were heading up the takeover) suddenly died, and that's why it didn't happen? ".......nope.
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Bolshevik
I've never heard that.
Instead of believing to cast out debil spurts and save people with God's love . . . they used the Power of Believing to go Old Testament on their orse?
Life more Than Abundant. Scarface 10:10.
edited for spalling
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DontWorryBeHappy
TLC........where did you here what you reported here? What were the sources of what you were told? I never heard anything like that from dictor or the twustees. Never said at any Placements or "Leaders' meetings", and I attended everyone from 1977 through 1986. I'd like to know if you can tell us. TY.
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TLC
Well, probably stuff from before 77. Some things are just hard to pinpoint an exact time or place for. Might have been rumors in the EOB building. So many "secret things," it's really hard to get anyone to remember, much less keep track of them all. But I suspect very little of it didn't start with vpw, as some of the JBS stuff must have worked its way into his thinking by 73, or 72.
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waysider
It sounds like a variation of this:
.........../.....
cognitive dissonance
.......././.
"Marian Keech (real name: Dorothy Martin) was the leader of a UFO cult in the 1950s. She claimed to get messages from extraterrestrials, known as The Guardians, through automatic writing. Like the Heaven's Gate folks forty years later, Keech and her followers, known as The Seekers or The Brotherhood of the Seven Rays, were waiting to be picked up by flying saucers. In Keech's prophecy, her group of eleven was to be saved just before the earth was to be destroyed by a massive flood on December 21, 1954. When it became evident that there would be no flood and the Guardians weren't stopping by to pick them up, Keech
became elated. She said she'd just received a telepathic message from the Guardians saying that her group of believers had spread so much light with their unflagging faith that God had spared the world from the cataclysm (Levine 2003: 206).
More important, the Seekers didn't abandon her. Most became more devoted after the failed prophecy. (Only two left the cult when the world didn't end.) "Most disciples not only stayed but, having made that decision, were now even more convinced than before that Keech had been right all along....Being wrong turned them into true believers (ibid.)." Some people will go to bizarre lengths to avoid inconsistency between their cherished beliefs and the facts. But why do people interpret the same evidence in contrary ways?"
SOURCE
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