I prowled around his site a while. He states he studied under Wierwille, Geer and Martindale, that he took their classes. I invested about 30 minutes in his "How to Speak in Tongues video and it was quite familiar. I believe that much of what he taught on that video was misguided if not incorrect. I'm not the person to judge whether an individual is teaching correctly from the bible as I have not studied the verses he used in detail...and even if I had, since I'm not a biblical scholar, I'll not give an opinion about the accuracy except as I already have.
There is what appears to be a whole class on "Walking by the Spirit". That class is free for the reading. You can email him...and he'll give you a password if you'd like. Presumably this could get you to more goodies. He struck me as an unassuming, rather likeable fellow who wanted to teach people how to live better by walking in the spirit. Too bad he followed the wrong men.
But I agree with Krys that the guy seems humble and unassuming.
Seriously? (cough, cough...)
Okay then, I guess I'll have to speak up on this one. A while back (year or two ago... don't recall exactly when, and its too easy to track of time anymore) I stumbled across his website (seems his "class" was about 2/3's or so done at the time) and read just enough to nearly shed a tear, then moved on.
But humble and unassuming? Still scratching my head over that one.
Maybe somebody else here cares to comment on a line or two from one of his "chapters" (<-- click link) and address any perceived motives:
"So why did God give such a gift to me? Well, it wasn't for my benefit, I can assure you. It wasn't a special little gift or favour to me because I was so wonderful. It wasn't because I was the best, or the most intelligent, or the most disciplined, or the most educated, or the most sociable, or the most personable person on earth, God knows I'm none of those things. Do you know why he gave me the gift ministry of an apostle? It was for you."
When I found the site, my impression was "copycat" - his report of being on a ship that lurched and a shaft of sunlight... etc, is more believable than snow on gas pumps in June. I don't want to waste my time studying his prolific articles (collaterals rehashes, perhaps?).
Just wondered if anyone had met the likely author, whose name I got from a book cover he photographs. Some people who have been around for decades perhaps - DWBH, Sky or Catcup might know of him.
When I found the site, my impression was "copycat" - his report of being on a ship that lurched and a shaft of sunlight... etc, is more believable than snow on gas pumps in June. I don't want to waste my time studying his prolific articles (collaterals rehashes, perhaps?).
Just wondered if anyone had met the likely author, whose name I got from a book cover he photographs. Some people who have been around for decades perhaps - DWBH, Sky or Catcup might know of him.
btw, the name is MacIver (with an "i"). Scottish, me thinks.
heard the name, but didn't know 'im.
edit:
funny... when typed the capital looks right. But when posted, it looks like a lower case "l".
Okay then, I guess I'll have to speak up on this one. A while back (year or two ago... don't recall exactly when, and its too easy to track of time anymore) I stumbled across his website (seems his "class" was about 2/3's or so done at the time) and read just enough to nearly shed a tear, then moved on.
But humble and unassuming? Still scratching my head over that one.
Maybe somebody else here cares to comment on a line or two from one of his "chapters" (<-- click link) and address any perceived motives:
"So why did God give such a gift to me? Well, it wasn't for my benefit, I can assure you. It wasn't a special little gift or favour to me because I was so wonderful. It wasn't because I was the best, or the most intelligent, or the most disciplined, or the most educated, or the most sociable, or the most personable person on earth, God knows I'm none of those things. Do you know why he gave me the gift ministry of an apostle? It was for you."
Key word in my comment was "seems."
As in, that's what he's trying to convey.
I did include qualifiers... perhaps not emphatically enough.
And I hope I made it clear I wouldn't follow him if my life depended on it.
Maybe somebody else here cares to comment on a line or two from one of his "chapters" (<-- click link) and address any perceived motives:
"So why did God give such a gift to me? Well, it wasn't for my benefit, I can assure you. It wasn't a special little gift or favour to me because I was so wonderful. It wasn't because I was the best, or the most intelligent, or the most disciplined, or the most educated, or the most sociable, or the most personable person on earth, God knows I'm none of those things. Do you know why he gave me the gift ministry of an apostle? It was for you."
Arrgg...
Given what has been (perhaps still is) discussed elsewhere concerning the "gift ministries," and that it's surfaced again here, seems I can't resist myself commenting a little further on the matter.
(But maybe this should get moved to a different or new thread over in doctrinal...)
Who do we primarily think of benefiting from any gift ministry?
Plainly there can be (and undoubtedly are) multiple benefits and/or multiple beneficiaries.
But who all is (or isn't) in the list, and who (or what) do we envision being the top or foremost of it?
...And why might (or does) any of us or think of these in the order that we do?
I'm not advocating that there is one and only one "right" answer to the question. Rather, I think how anyone chooses to answer that will likely speak volumes as to what their perspective is on more than just this one issue, and where they are in their spiritual attitude or development.
(That being said, probably no one will care (or dare) to answer, but these are the kind of questions that I have pondered myself for many years... especially when crossing paths with certain things that appear to be so out of joint, or whacked out, with what I suppose to be more in alignment and harmony with what I've surmised thus far to be right and/or true.)
"(That being said, probably no one will care (or dare) to answer, but these are the kind of questions that I have pondered myself for many years."
Take his prattle out of a religious context and his narcissism becomes much clearer. The "I'm not worthy" schtick gets a bit tiresome at this point in my life.
"(That being said, probably no one will care (or dare) to answer, but these are the kind of questions that I have pondered myself for many years."
Take his prattle out of a religious context and his narcissism becomes much clearer. The "I'm not worthy" schtick gets a bit tiresome at this point in my life.
Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer. I was referring to the guy who runs that Way of 21st Century site. Geeze, it's like he copied the gas pumps story and just changed the incidentals.
The link you supplied, Twinky, does not work on my devices. However, I have no recollection of ever meeting this jerk, nor do I care to. TY.
Dictor paul's fantasy world of "gift ministries" is just THAT. FANTASY! He hijacked the underpinning of his entire theory of "gift ministries" from B.G. Leonard, who in dictor's deranged, drug and alcohol infused "mind" was the epitome and embodiment of what the Old Testament Prophet MOG is. Dic patterned his entire public MOG persona after his personal experiences with B.G.
I met B.G. twice. Both times at HQ. IMO, he was a self-deluded OT Prophet with an authentic heart to serve Christ, but an unfortunate "private interpretation problen". I had him "minister" to me in the dormitory at HQ during one of the HQ big events.....Living Victoriously or ROA, when Steve Sann and don wierwille had arranged for him to be in attendance and speak from the main stage. It was exactly the same as if dpw were doing it. In other words, totally bogus and without effect of any kind.
Immediately after this "ministering" session, I went backstage at the Main Tent and reported to Howard and Don. The next day, B.G. was "escorted" to the Dayton Airport for a trip back home......at that time in southern TX.
IMO, based upon personal experience and interaction with both men, I found B.G. to be genuinely humble before the Lord, and authentically concerned about "God's people", and his ministry to them. Dictor paul had no such humility or authenticity in my experience. Though thouroughly self-deluded and enthralled with his "calling", B.G. did not strike me as a charlatan, or phony. He was affable though terse. His common-law wife, Sister Evelyn, was his personal attendant, protector and biggest promoter. She protected him tenaciously. She was also genuine in her belief in BG's "ministry and calling of God" and obviously completely committed to the same. She protected her MOG with fervent, dogged faithfulness as far as I could see. Doesn't make her "right" but it does demonstrate her self-deluded authenticity.
IMO, Dictor paul totally "stole" BG's "ministry" for self-gain. He saw the income potential and his Chimes Hour Youth Caravan/Way Productions hyperthalmic PR mania took off with it very quickly, to the chagrin of BG himself. Dic used it to feed his personal mental illnesses and promote himself as the author and finisher of the only "rightly-divided" Christianity on the planet. The Apostle Paul of the 20th century. Instead, we got the snow pumps Puff Daddy and years of sexual and spiritual abuse. Not to mention enough false teaching and wrong doctrine to last for 50 years so far. Even from those professing to have "accurized" his plagiarized "new light". What a complete disgrace to the True God and The Lord Jesus Christ. Woe unto you still preaching ANY of his pathological bullshit. Peace to the rest.
Subsequently the Obama administration took steps towards imposing federal limits on what they call climate changing pollution from cars, power plants, and factories, declaring there was compelling scientific evidence that global warming from manmade greenhouse gases endangered Americans' health. In reality, the only thing endangering Americans' health are the pollutants issuing from the lying mouths of those who promote global warming.Perhaps Heinzerling should argue instead against homosexuals who indeed knowingly inject lethal diseases into their partners.
I was going to comment about how he's saying he will suck on a tailpipe if folks keep their mouths shut. Then I read the last sentence.
Immediately after this "ministering" session, I went backstage at the Main Tent and reported to Howard and Don. The next day, B.G. was "escorted" to the Dayton Airport for a trip back home......at that time in southern TX.
Well, what do you suppose (or know) it was in your report that resulted in such a hasty exit?
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WordWolf
Considering his free use of coarse words, it's obvious he learned quite a bit under lcm.
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krys
I prowled around his site a while. He states he studied under Wierwille, Geer and Martindale, that he took their classes. I invested about 30 minutes in his "How to Speak in Tongues video and it was quite familiar. I believe that much of what he taught on that video was misguided if not incorrect. I'm not the person to judge whether an individual is teaching correctly from the bible as I have not studied the verses he used in detail...and even if I had, since I'm not a biblical scholar, I'll not give an opinion about the accuracy except as I already have.
There is what appears to be a whole class on "Walking by the Spirit". That class is free for the reading. You can email him...and he'll give you a password if you'd like. Presumably this could get you to more goodies. He struck me as an unassuming, rather likeable fellow who wanted to teach people how to live better by walking in the spirit. Too bad he followed the wrong men.
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Rocky
His "teachings" sound oh, so seductive... until you get to his focus on things like homosexuality and Satan.
His description of wanting God to show him/herself to him sounds a lot like many stories I've heard before... not so unlike my own.
It gives clues as to how young adults can be so susceptible to cults.
But I agree with Krys that the guy seems humble and unassuming.
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waysider
Someone should let him know that Wierwille wasn't really a Dr. He seems to enjoy flaunting his connection to VP to bolster his credibility.
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TLC
Seriously? (cough, cough...)
Okay then, I guess I'll have to speak up on this one. A while back (year or two ago... don't recall exactly when, and its too easy to track of time anymore) I stumbled across his website (seems his "class" was about 2/3's or so done at the time) and read just enough to nearly shed a tear, then moved on.
But humble and unassuming? Still scratching my head over that one.
Maybe somebody else here cares to comment on a line or two from one of his "chapters" (<-- click link) and address any perceived motives:
"So why did God give such a gift to me? Well, it wasn't for my benefit, I can assure you. It wasn't a special little gift or favour to me because I was so wonderful. It wasn't because I was the best, or the most intelligent, or the most disciplined, or the most educated, or the most sociable, or the most personable person on earth, God knows I'm none of those things. Do you know why he gave me the gift ministry of an apostle? It was for you."
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Twinky
When I found the site, my impression was "copycat" - his report of being on a ship that lurched and a shaft of sunlight... etc, is more believable than snow on gas pumps in June. I don't want to waste my time studying his prolific articles (collaterals rehashes, perhaps?).
Just wondered if anyone had met the likely author, whose name I got from a book cover he photographs. Some people who have been around for decades perhaps - DWBH, Sky or Catcup might know of him.
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TLC
btw, the name is MacIver (with an "i"). Scottish, me thinks.
heard the name, but didn't know 'im.
edit:
funny... when typed the capital looks right. But when posted, it looks like a lower case "l".
I guess you had it right to start with.
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Rocky
Key word in my comment was "seems."
As in, that's what he's trying to convey.
I did include qualifiers... perhaps not emphatically enough.
And I hope I made it clear I wouldn't follow him if my life depended on it.
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TLC
Yeah, I was merely bringing (perhaps some of the less obvious) stuff up to the surface that I sorta recalled being buried there somewhere.
And as for the copycat aspect of it... maybe he thinks that it's "new light," eh?
Or, maybe he thinks that he's really old, and it's new to this generation.
Or, maybe he simply came up with some new definition or understanding of what an apostle is. (Hey... maybe that's the "new" part.)
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waysider
PFAL is the herpes virus of the religious field. It seems to disappear for a while and then...BAM!... there it is again.
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TLC
Arrgg...
Given what has been (perhaps still is) discussed elsewhere concerning the "gift ministries," and that it's surfaced again here, seems I can't resist myself commenting a little further on the matter.
(But maybe this should get moved to a different or new thread over in doctrinal...)
Who do we primarily think of benefiting from any gift ministry?
Plainly there can be (and undoubtedly are) multiple benefits and/or multiple beneficiaries.
But who all is (or isn't) in the list, and who (or what) do we envision being the top or foremost of it?
...And why might (or does) any of us or think of these in the order that we do?
I'm not advocating that there is one and only one "right" answer to the question. Rather, I think how anyone chooses to answer that will likely speak volumes as to what their perspective is on more than just this one issue, and where they are in their spiritual attitude or development.
(That being said, probably no one will care (or dare) to answer, but these are the kind of questions that I have pondered myself for many years... especially when crossing paths with certain things that appear to be so out of joint, or whacked out, with what I suppose to be more in alignment and harmony with what I've surmised thus far to be right and/or true.)
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waysider
"(That being said, probably no one will care (or dare) to answer, but these are the kind of questions that I have pondered myself for many years."
Take his prattle out of a religious context and his narcissism becomes much clearer. The "I'm not worthy" schtick gets a bit tiresome at this point in my life.
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TLC
Who or what are you talking about?
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waysider
Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer. I was referring to the guy who runs that Way of 21st Century site. Geeze, it's like he copied the gas pumps story and just changed the incidentals.
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OldSkool
Geez. This guy sounds like Martindale junior with all the expletives and "challenges" of what are u going to do with the word!?!!!!
Interesting site nonetheless.
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DontWorryBeHappy
The link you supplied, Twinky, does not work on my devices. However, I have no recollection of ever meeting this jerk, nor do I care to. TY.
Dictor paul's fantasy world of "gift ministries" is just THAT. FANTASY! He hijacked the underpinning of his entire theory of "gift ministries" from B.G. Leonard, who in dictor's deranged, drug and alcohol infused "mind" was the epitome and embodiment of what the Old Testament Prophet MOG is. Dic patterned his entire public MOG persona after his personal experiences with B.G.
I met B.G. twice. Both times at HQ. IMO, he was a self-deluded OT Prophet with an authentic heart to serve Christ, but an unfortunate "private interpretation problen". I had him "minister" to me in the dormitory at HQ during one of the HQ big events.....Living Victoriously or ROA, when Steve Sann and don wierwille had arranged for him to be in attendance and speak from the main stage. It was exactly the same as if dpw were doing it. In other words, totally bogus and without effect of any kind.
Immediately after this "ministering" session, I went backstage at the Main Tent and reported to Howard and Don. The next day, B.G. was "escorted" to the Dayton Airport for a trip back home......at that time in southern TX.
IMO, based upon personal experience and interaction with both men, I found B.G. to be genuinely humble before the Lord, and authentically concerned about "God's people", and his ministry to them. Dictor paul had no such humility or authenticity in my experience. Though thouroughly self-deluded and enthralled with his "calling", B.G. did not strike me as a charlatan, or phony. He was affable though terse. His common-law wife, Sister Evelyn, was his personal attendant, protector and biggest promoter. She protected him tenaciously. She was also genuine in her belief in BG's "ministry and calling of God" and obviously completely committed to the same. She protected her MOG with fervent, dogged faithfulness as far as I could see. Doesn't make her "right" but it does demonstrate her self-deluded authenticity.
IMO, Dictor paul totally "stole" BG's "ministry" for self-gain. He saw the income potential and his Chimes Hour Youth Caravan/Way Productions hyperthalmic PR mania took off with it very quickly, to the chagrin of BG himself. Dic used it to feed his personal mental illnesses and promote himself as the author and finisher of the only "rightly-divided" Christianity on the planet. The Apostle Paul of the 20th century. Instead, we got the snow pumps Puff Daddy and years of sexual and spiritual abuse. Not to mention enough false teaching and wrong doctrine to last for 50 years so far. Even from those professing to have "accurized" his plagiarized "new light". What a complete disgrace to the True God and The Lord Jesus Christ. Woe unto you still preaching ANY of his pathological bullshit. Peace to the rest.
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Bolshevik
http://www.thewayofthe21stcentury.com/life/life19.html
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TLC
Well, what do you suppose (or know) it was in your report that resulted in such a hasty exit?
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Rocky
One very like cause of the link not working on your devices is that the teacher page is no longer there. But the site still works.
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