This is just my opinion. The money from the classes was like icing on the cake, chump change, if you will. Wierwille's real goal was to establish a loyal following of believers who would ABS 10, 15, 20% of their income, payday after payday after payday. They could have given the classes away for free and still amassed a fortune.
10,000 followers X $25,000 annual net income X 15% ABS = $37.5 million per year, TAX FREE
They could have hired better people to build a sustainable organization. Sustainability wasn't the goal, was it?
I don't mean to pick on corp folk, evidently there were a few good ones - somewhere but that training/indoctrination must have been far worse than what I was taught in the military to resist brain washing if captured (depends which side of the hot poker you are on). Indoctrination is easy if the mind is open and the skids greased to receive the mother load.
I know, it's a bit off thread but am working up to the point.
I am looking for a reason to rationalize why the corp folk were such turds (part of my forgiveness therapy) but it is not all that easy because they were all individuals, each with their own needs and different expectations and acceptance of reality.
It's all a trap and each fell into it based upon their individual needs but what about using people, their brothers and sisters in Christ, sexually, financially and as work slaves. Yeh, shovel the snow while the branch leader sleeps in and feels no need to say thanks. How in the hell can a person get indoctrinated into that dictatorial state, was not vpw a farm boy and taught the value of manual work to the corp? I think, IMHO, that the corp allowed folks to digress to their most basic persona, good or bad, that's what they did. The corp changed no one, they just became more of what they always were and justified it because of their God given authority.
Now where does the social pressue come in, when these little monsters were let loose on an unsuspecting bunch of WOW's, talk about a furtile feeding ground. We were clay in their hands: WOW branches took on the same persona as the branch leader and those who did not - well, they were bucking God.
To summarize on the social pressure topic, it was HQ directed via the corp robots. Now ain't that overly simplified.
I admit, my view of it all is narrow and I was not in the corp so I may be speaking by extrapolation on that limited knowledge.
Maybe that's why I have such a mis-trust of so many folks on GSC knowing they were corp folk and still drag along some of that persona on steroids. Yes, I got off thread, maybe.
I don't mean to pick on corp folk, evidently there were a few good ones - somewhere but that training/indoctrination must have been far worse than what I was taught in the military to resist brain washing if captured (depends which side of the hot poker you are on). Indoctrination is easy if the mind is open and the skids greased to receive the mother load.
I know, it's a bit off thread but am working up to the point.
I am looking for a reason to rationalize why the corp folk were such turds (part of my forgiveness therapy) but it is not all that easy because they were all individuals, each with their own needs and different expectations and acceptance of reality.
It's all a trap and each fell into it based upon their individual needs but what about using people, their brothers and sisters in Christ, sexually, financially and as work slaves. Yeh, shovel the snow while the branch leader sleeps in and feels no need to say thanks. How in the hell can a person get indoctrinated into that dictatorial state, was not vpw a farm boy and taught the value of manual work to the corp? I think, IMHO, that the corp allowed folks to digress to their most basic persona, good or bad, that's what they did. The corp changed no one, they just became more of what they always were and justified it because of their God given authority.
Now where does the social pressue come in, when these little monsters were let loose on an unsuspecting bunch of WOW's, talk about a furtile feeding ground. We were clay in their hands: WOW branches took on the same persona as the branch leader and those who did not - well, they were bucking God.
To summarize on the social pressure topic, it was HQ directed via the corp robots. Now ain't that overly simplified.
I admit, my view of it all is narrow and I was not in the corp so I may be speaking by extrapolation on that limited knowledge.
Maybe that's why I have such a mis-trust of so many folks on GSC knowing they were corp folk and still drag along some of that persona on steroids. Yes, I got off thread, maybe.
Indoctrination, including way corpse training, doesn't have to be permanent. Yes, corpse training was directly related to social pressure. Loy CM was big on vocal intimidation. What was modeled in residence was often what was demonstrated by the trainees went out to "minister."
But you might also, if you look for it here, recognize that many of us eventually questioned everything, from how to interact with others to whether or not what VPee taught was at all legitimate.
For me, the significant emotional event was pretty much when the bunch of leaders left in 1986 or so. I didn't hurt that I graduated with a bachelor's degree in accounting (at age 31) in that year. I began reading the Book of Acts from the perspective of accountability and realized, when Reahard, Belt, JALvis etc left, that accountability in twi was bass-ackward. It also helped that several "twigs" left all at once in the Phoenix area so we were able to maintain social connections as long as we felt we needed them.
But it took me years to unlearn bad behavior I picked up from wierwille and martindale.
I am looking for a reason to rationalize why the corp folk were such turds (part of my forgiveness therapy) but it is not all that easy because they were all individuals, each with their own needs and different expectations and acceptance of reality.
First of all, the "corps folk" numbers around 1976 or 1977 were quite low. If I remember
correctly, the 4th corps grads=45 and 5th corps grads=75 thereabouts (+/-). Add to that
Family Corps grads and corps spouses might get you near the 220-240 mark. How many of
them do you know in your broad brush label of "turds?"
Secondly, the smaller the corps numbers the MORE direct relationship to wierwille.
Those trained by wierwille, emulated wierwille traits, manners, temperament, style.
Have you ever heard of the Zero Corps? Why the failure? Was wierwille too hard, too
strict, too much of a bully?
Thirdly, the corps was "ordered" to get out there and shake things up to *move the word.*
There was a persistent 1)confrontational and 2)competitive nature to the corps program.
If that program was pooping out turds, then what does THAT say about wierwille who called
If that program was pooping out turds, then what does THAT say about wierwille who called
this program his kids ???
.
These "corps" were mostly children, folks in their early 20s? Nobody else wanted them apparently. So there was a large market available, just sitting there.
It says Wierwille was an opportunist. What he gathered, was his.
mrap......you seem to be arttributing much of your corpse-hate on your experience with Gei$$ler in Osh Kosh, and whoever followed her from the interim 5th, or you're mad at MacDuffie
for being the Limb gal. And you question the benefit of having had the GSC around for the last 16 years? You are still so hopelessly lost in twit doctrine it's no wonder your "heroes" are jallyroll and schoenheit. They make total sense to you, don't they? Don't they have websites where you can ask them all the banal questions that you ask here, don't they? Opps! They USED TO, but now that they've anointed themselves the most accurate bible teachers since the 20th century, they don't bother with questions or counterpoint anymore. They just speak ex cathedra, and ex-twits such as yourself gobble it up and only ask questions of people whose answers you do not want to here IMO.
You keep whining about the GSC.....complaining about or "trashing" vic and his keedz like schoenheit and jalvis. How is that any different from you "trashing" all the "turds" in the corpse you followed? You have described yourself as a "turd" here on every forum except doctrinal. You learned quite well how turdiness works. Guess you owe more of your current "faith" to the corpse turds you met than you do to Christ, eh? Physician, heal thyself! You've got questions? Ask the idiots who gave them to you. You keep feigning genuine interest in getting answers to your questions by asking them over and over and over again as if the GSC OWES you the answers. NO! The morons you choose to follow "confused" you, so ask them to unscramble the mess they've made of your brain. We owe you nothing but to love you. And, you make that a full-time job around here for some of the "regulars" who've been posting here for 16 years. I truly admire Raf for his evenhanded and very objective administration of this site. i'd have thrown you out a year ago. He's a better moderator than i am, that's for sure. Please mrap,......just dump your turds in Doctrinal and don't bother the non-brainwashed at the rest of the forums. TY. TTFN.
MRAP Can post wherever he wants, just like the rest of us.
And I'm not the only moderator here. I do not run this site. There are three of us who are active at the moment. And the only reason people know I'm a moderator, is that I screwed up my duties a couple of years ago.
"............ the 6th corps was all "thrown out" and had
to come groveling back before the corps-program-doors opened back up."
For those who may be wondering what that was all about: It was scripted, orchestrated, staged, coordinated or whatever word you find appropriate. It was all a show........They did they same thing in FellowLaborers, at the same time. It was calculated indoctrination, designed to instill obedience.
And, they wanted you to think it happened as a result of revelation.
"............ the 6th corps was all "thrown out" and had
to come groveling back before the corps-program-doors opened back up."
For those who may be wondering what that was all about: It was scripted, orchestrated, staged, coordinated or whatever word you find appropriate. It was all a show........They did they same thing in FellowLaborers, at the same time. It was calculated indoctrination, designed to instill obedience.
And, they wanted you to think it happened as a result of revelation.
I have come to see that this was a technique that was applied to all in-rez Corps programs - possibly WoW or FL and other programs, whatever was running at the time. Look for some aspect that hadn't been done as well, or got the demanded results, then slam the whole group, tell 'em they were all spiritually asleep and not good enough, threaten to throw them all out, and keep them stewing for a little while. Then, when they feel suitably anxious (don't forget, many had given up decent jobs, housing, and alienated or burned bridges with family and friends), then "graciously" accept them back on sufferance. They'd all be so grateful that the rest of the training (indoctrination) could be ratcheted up a notch or two.
It's just bullying and manipulation. And those who refused to be manipulated (theyd had enough and actually packed their bags and left) - well, they obviously weren't the gullible ones that TWI sought to indoctrinate. Those folks were still useful, though, because you could call them spiritual weaklings (when in fact they were quite the opposite) or homosexuals or cop-outs or whatever other slander you choose, before you say that God wouldn't even spit in their direction but call them brave or foolish (or some such) for stepping out of the protection of God's household. More manipulation.
Someone said above about the time since leaving the corp has required alot of unlearning - just my paraphrasing of it.
That's so true, after so much indoctrination and then going on reading and learing on your own you forget from where and who you learned it; that included decades between twi and doing any reading on STF and the REV - not really a JAL - as you say it - follower.
The thread is social pressure and that includes alot of tangents to support issues so bare/bear/beer with me.
Someone said I painted the corp with a broad brush, they are correct, I did generalize. At that time, all corp folk I came across I eventually found out to be much less than what I had thought them to be (that's where I became distrusfull of corp folk). DWBH is quite perspective regarding who/what/where/when and the numbers. Yes, thanks DWBH, you got those facts pretty much on target. Small numbers in the corp at that time and learning at the feet of the master/doctor; is that what accounted for their rotten minds (it's rhetorical)?
I will cut L.McD some slack, I always had a bit of reasonability with her - I knew her well though can no longer remember the names of her two daughters. L.Mcd tried to talk me outa the marriage, wanting us to wait (I had financial reasons because of VA educational benefits) but at the end of the day (that day), I thought she was O.K. with it. When the word went out to not attend the marriage, via the branch leader (5th corp interm) I was not sure where it came from and at that time, did not give a rat's pitoot.
Now you really make me think on this one DWBH, at that time, would a limb leader go back to the HQ on such a minor issue and then decree down to the branch leaders to not attend: just provide an opinion since it appears you are familiar with the W's of the time, if needed, I will just read around the insults - I am making an honest request.
Oh, before I forget, my appologees to any corp folk out there deserving of said appologe - you know who you are and who you are not.
Not so much a social pressure at this time, and in all reality, that BS by twi releaved both my wife and I from any more social presure by twi. Recall the line by Princess Lea in Star Wars: Lord Vadar, the tighter you grip the more systems will slip through your finders. We were thankfull of slipping through the fingers. Yet, (here's social pressure) we had already made all the arrangements to go to the ROA that year (1976), we went, we left, it was over - we thought, it was not until way into 1977 that we could cut out.
Here's the social pressue, not really social so much as guilt: we got groups (what were "groups") comining into the area, can you help to get them established with housing and jobs, etc. WTF?!!. They were something like a roving little twig, there were two groups - anybody know about such a program?
Anyway, after that, it was over, we just wanted twi to leave us alone though we consistently got correspondence, even though moving around in the military (postal service forwarding mail I suppose) we kept getting twi stuff, even in Korea. Thinking back, probably because we had committed to supporting a couple folks in the 6th corp, which we did for those years.
I think one of the last correspondence we go from twi was a LCM Homo Letter (something about homo fantasies, etc.) and that was around 1993/4, was that an after the fact letter or was that the initial homo purge. I now think about it, we got married in 1976 and we were still infected by twi until 1993.
I think back to my international WOW year and some of the older laidies in the twig (not WOWs but ladies we brought in to the class, etc.) who provided excellent advice that I did not follow. They thought we were great kids and doing a great service to God and Jesus but that we needed to be aware of the organization we were in, they understood the methods of the "sexy" branch leaders and the roving WOW's (other interm corp).
I was just too smart to listen to them, no, I was too stupid not to listen to them. What a great bunch of girls, the three of em had been friends all their lives and were very carring, it was not until later I learned how much they did for families in the branch to include financially. I should have been learning from them, they had been living their lives for decades on the principles we thought we were teaching them. I think when they left a twig meeting they just smiled and nodded to each other.
Those were the ladies that came to our marriage - I would like to think now they were also thinking: "ROAD TRIP"!! That's somehing now I regret, not giving them the due respect they deserved, I was too busy about the business of a twig leader.
You see, that's what that damn twi social pressure does to you, you disregard those good lessons you learned growing up and become a twi dweeb, thinking you are better than folks with less time in the twi process. You know that feeling when regret grabs your whole body and you know you can no longer go back to them and say things to help make it straight, not even being able to say thanks.
Ship, what a long post, can't say sorry, it's on thread.
You're doing all right, MRAP. It takes such a long time to disentangle from all the junk we learned. It takes humility and a willingness to accept that we were wrong (even if we were badly misled, deliberately taught wrongly) before we can begin to see aright.
For people whose first brush with Christianity was via TWI (not saying yours was), the model is truly outrageous. It's good you had those ladies in your twig to model something more loving and Christlike.
Well, good morning Twinky, got your coffee or is it best to say morning tea. I wanted to thank you for your prior post but got so wouned around the axle I neglected to do so. This thread is placent for convolusion and long disertations. It's a great thread and drags out memories, way too many of those past pains and ellations of the times. At the moment I am recalling a sister playing the piano and singing some 40 years ago. Now that is all way off thread but it's drag along from the memories of those social presures. GSC is just one street down the road of memory lane, it's hard to divide out some of the good stuff, not twi, but the people you knew and loved. A very hard concept to describe though the visional memory is still there. Hope you have a good day.
Linda Mac was third corpse. Her daughters' names are Becky and Amy. She was the first single parent ever in the corpse. There was no family corpse back then.
i had known Linda back in the old Way East. She lived in Natick, MA and would come down to Rye for various events. I liked her. I do not know where she is now. i hope she's well.
Geissler married this 6th corpse guy Steve Strzepek. They stayed in into the 90's and were running Gunnison when they finally quit or got the boot. They live in CT now. They signed the loyalty oath to da forehead in early 1990. i have not spoken to either one since i left in december, 1986. Linda stayed until Dave Standage, 4th corpse was there for a year, followed by Paul and Cindy Brautigam when they graduated from the 5th corpse.
A decision on whether or not believers should attend your wedding would be made at the limb level for WOWVETS. If you were a WOW, then it would include the region coordinator and Bill Winegarner the WOW coordinator at HQ. I doubt that's what occurred with your wedding. Sounds to me like whomever was your interim 5th corpse nemesis filled her head with a bunch of BS about you which Linda most likely never really checked into. Sounds like you somehow got on his/her enemies list.
I think that is most unfortunate for you and your new wife, and unfortunately, as the corpses grew in number the abuses did also. It is not uncommon for traumas like you experienced to be brought back to mind by something as simple as a name or a face. No need to apologize for any "rant" either. What i have always appreciated from the GSC is how many thousands of people have been able to accurately fit the puzzles of their years in twit together objectively with FACTS. You left nearly 40 years ago. There are members of the GSC who were in for that long and still in today. It is only after folks overcome the emotional juggernaut of realizing the truth about twit and its "leaders", that the real, objective reflection and understanding of the false doctrine and perverted practices of twit's top echelon, who were and remain a bunch of Aryan Supremacists, alcoholic serial sexual predators who taught and continue to teach anti(against)-Christ false doctrine. And, the offshoots perpetuate the same poison they stole from their "father in the word" in a "kinder, gentler" bible cult. That's the perspective i have to offer re: your experiences in WI. Hope you were able to navigate around all the insults..................peace.
I never did succumb to pressures to abandon non-TWI friends and family. That, and continuing to question certain aspects of TWI practice, eventually resulted in my being committed to Satan set free.
George
George, neither did I. But, I feel like some of the leadership looked down on me, because I didn't "sell-out" completely to TWI. Â I had a life, and I wanted to live it my way; I felt that many of the leaders in TWI had certain expectations as to how "believers" were supposed to live their lives; I did not fall into that category. Â Nuts to them!
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skyrider
When I was first introduced to twi, I was in college.....taking marketing and management classes. My textbooks delved into the strategies, target and scope of a good marketing project. Defining one
Raf
Not going to throw this thread off course, but social pressure ties directly into my thesis about SIT in The Way.
waysider
Yes, it played a major role in how people responded and reacted to session #12. If their reaction was less than desirable, immediate intervention ensued. Continued failure to perform at a level that c
Bolshevik
10,000 followers X $25,000 annual net income X 15% ABS = $37.5 million per year, TAX FREE
They could have hired better people to build a sustainable organization. Sustainability wasn't the goal, was it?
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skyrider
Yeah....good wholesome people, embedded in the community. That's why I referenced them.
BUT.....what does wierwille do? He systematically replaces good, solid twig coordinators
with young, cocky corps grads who blow into town and, a couple years later, leave a mess
for others to deal with as their corps assignment changes. I can completely understand
why folks in the areas, like MRAP's situation, got badly burned.
Same deal with staff positions at headquarters. As each year passed, noticeably after 1977,
the "old-timer" staff were being replaced by a younger crop of corps grads. The heart and
soul of all-that-was-good-about-twi was disappearing. What those staffers represented in the
early days was irreplaceable.
Same deal with Word in Business Conferences. At first, it was productive to converge at these
conferences and have breakout workshops.....where business owners and professionals taught
specific skills and expertise and answers questions. Plus, add the factor of networking and
support systems and these conferences and it was a win/win. BUT, no.....a few years pass
and then Don Wierwille (or his Dad) slotted corps grads [uGH] to oversee these teaching and
workshops.
Sure wasn't the way I related to "Love God, love your neighbor as yourself."
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MRAP
I don't mean to pick on corp folk, evidently there were a few good ones - somewhere but that training/indoctrination must have been far worse than what I was taught in the military to resist brain washing if captured (depends which side of the hot poker you are on). Indoctrination is easy if the mind is open and the skids greased to receive the mother load.
I know, it's a bit off thread but am working up to the point.
I am looking for a reason to rationalize why the corp folk were such turds (part of my forgiveness therapy) but it is not all that easy because they were all individuals, each with their own needs and different expectations and acceptance of reality.
It's all a trap and each fell into it based upon their individual needs but what about using people, their brothers and sisters in Christ, sexually, financially and as work slaves. Yeh, shovel the snow while the branch leader sleeps in and feels no need to say thanks. How in the hell can a person get indoctrinated into that dictatorial state, was not vpw a farm boy and taught the value of manual work to the corp? I think, IMHO, that the corp allowed folks to digress to their most basic persona, good or bad, that's what they did. The corp changed no one, they just became more of what they always were and justified it because of their God given authority.
Now where does the social pressue come in, when these little monsters were let loose on an unsuspecting bunch of WOW's, talk about a furtile feeding ground. We were clay in their hands: WOW branches took on the same persona as the branch leader and those who did not - well, they were bucking God.
To summarize on the social pressure topic, it was HQ directed via the corp robots. Now ain't that overly simplified.
I admit, my view of it all is narrow and I was not in the corp so I may be speaking by extrapolation on that limited knowledge.
Maybe that's why I have such a mis-trust of so many folks on GSC knowing they were corp folk and still drag along some of that persona on steroids. Yes, I got off thread, maybe.
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Rocky
Indoctrination, including way corpse training, doesn't have to be permanent. Yes, corpse training was directly related to social pressure. Loy CM was big on vocal intimidation. What was modeled in residence was often what was demonstrated by the trainees went out to "minister."
But you might also, if you look for it here, recognize that many of us eventually questioned everything, from how to interact with others to whether or not what VPee taught was at all legitimate.
For me, the significant emotional event was pretty much when the bunch of leaders left in 1986 or so. I didn't hurt that I graduated with a bachelor's degree in accounting (at age 31) in that year. I began reading the Book of Acts from the perspective of accountability and realized, when Reahard, Belt, JALvis etc left, that accountability in twi was bass-ackward. It also helped that several "twigs" left all at once in the Phoenix area so we were able to maintain social connections as long as we felt we needed them.
But it took me years to unlearn bad behavior I picked up from wierwille and martindale.
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skyrider
First of all, the "corps folk" numbers around 1976 or 1977 were quite low. If I remember
correctly, the 4th corps grads=45 and 5th corps grads=75 thereabouts (+/-). Add to that
Family Corps grads and corps spouses might get you near the 220-240 mark. How many of
them do you know in your broad brush label of "turds?"
Secondly, the smaller the corps numbers the MORE direct relationship to wierwille.
Those trained by wierwille, emulated wierwille traits, manners, temperament, style.
Have you ever heard of the Zero Corps? Why the failure? Was wierwille too hard, too
strict, too much of a bully?
Thirdly, the corps was "ordered" to get out there and shake things up to *move the word.*
There was a persistent 1)confrontational and 2)competitive nature to the corps program.
If that program was pooping out turds, then what does THAT say about wierwille who called
this program his kids ???
.
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Bolshevik
These "corps" were mostly children, folks in their early 20s? Nobody else wanted them apparently. So there was a large market available, just sitting there.
It says Wierwille was an opportunist. What he gathered, was his.
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skyrider
Rocky.....good point. Clearly, there were MANY who entered the corps program
that didn't get "indoctrinated." Some exited at Christmas break or at the end
of the year. Some exited during their interim year, etc...
When I think about the corps program, I think it is wise to recognize the 80-20 rule.
Also known as the Pareto principle.....wherein an 80/20 percentage is a good rule to
discern proportionality. So, rather than paint ALL corps with this broad brush, there
is quite possible a proportion of such claims as realistic.
Pareto principle
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skyrider
Chose to walk away.
In August 1978, my 4th corps Limb Coordinator was making plans to exit twi
even though his mom worked at hq.
In 1981, my 1st corps Department Coordinator at hq had plans to head to Alaska
and pursue secular endeavors.
In 1982, in spending time with a 5th corps grad.....he (and family) moved
to the Columbus, OH area to pursue his doctorate degree.
The corps grads were NOT some monolithic group of wierwille-followers.
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TLC
Replaced by AJ. Mike never did tell me why he was leaving, but it sure didn't give me a warm and fuzzy.
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krys
MRAP stated above :
Maybe that's why I have such a mis-trust of so many folks on GSC knowing they were corp folk and still drag along some of that persona on steroids. Yes, I got off thread, maybe.
Those at GSC are not all corp. Also - - those who are corp are mainly here for the same reason....get the word out about what twi was really all about. If some used to be hard harted, they've long since changed their hearts and their ways.
edit: clean up some formatting problem
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DontWorryBeHappy
mrap......you seem to be arttributing much of your corpse-hate on your experience with Gei$$ler in Osh Kosh, and whoever followed her from the interim 5th, or you're mad at MacDuffie
for being the Limb gal. And you question the benefit of having had the GSC around for the last 16 years? You are still so hopelessly lost in twit doctrine it's no wonder your "heroes" are jallyroll and schoenheit. They make total sense to you, don't they? Don't they have websites where you can ask them all the banal questions that you ask here, don't they? Opps! They USED TO, but now that they've anointed themselves the most accurate bible teachers since the 20th century, they don't bother with questions or counterpoint anymore. They just speak ex cathedra, and ex-twits such as yourself gobble it up and only ask questions of people whose answers you do not want to here IMO.
You keep whining about the GSC.....complaining about or "trashing" vic and his keedz like schoenheit and jalvis. How is that any different from you "trashing" all the "turds" in the corpse you followed? You have described yourself as a "turd" here on every forum except doctrinal. You learned quite well how turdiness works. Guess you owe more of your current "faith" to the corpse turds you met than you do to Christ, eh? Physician, heal thyself! You've got questions? Ask the idiots who gave them to you. You keep feigning genuine interest in getting answers to your questions by asking them over and over and over again as if the GSC OWES you the answers. NO! The morons you choose to follow "confused" you, so ask them to unscramble the mess they've made of your brain. We owe you nothing but to love you. And, you make that a full-time job around here for some of the "regulars" who've been posting here for 16 years. I truly admire Raf for his evenhanded and very objective administration of this site. i'd have thrown you out a year ago. He's a better moderator than i am, that's for sure. Please mrap,......just dump your turds in Doctrinal and don't bother the non-brainwashed at the rest of the forums. TY. TTFN.
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Raf
Sigh.
MRAP Can post wherever he wants, just like the rest of us.
And I'm not the only moderator here. I do not run this site. There are three of us who are active at the moment. And the only reason people know I'm a moderator, is that I screwed up my duties a couple of years ago.
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skyrider
Yeah, TLC.....why was Mike leaving?
As I've stated consistently on GSC, these underlying factors were building and building
for MANY YEARS....probably pronounced when the 6th corps was all "thrown out" and had
to come groveling back before the corps-program-doors opened back up.
In 1978, at this advanced class.....wierwille was pi$$ed at three 8th corps guys whose research project
had a biblical thesis that stood in opposition to pfal. If I remember correctly, their paper challenged
the premise whereby "the word takes the place of the absent Christ" doctrine. Truths in scripture point
to 'revelation by Jesus Christ' as something far greater than twi was teaching the people.
I was appointed a branch coordinator at this 1978 adv class.....and in that first meeting
behind closed doors, wierwille was outspoken and seething over their dissent.
The groundswell of dissent and pushback was churning underneath the surface.
Why Mike Sm!th, a 1st corps grad, was planning his move to Alaska [1981] for secular endeavors
illustrates to me that he was MOVING ON WITH HIS LIFE WITHOUT TWI.
Whatever his deep-seated motives, he definitely wasn't buying anymore what twi was selling.
As stated, in my first post on this thread......lots of factors:
"But......years later, in treading down this path, the economic, family and psychological pressures
increase to a stage of mounting a counterpoint to "the social pressures of twi." And, I believe, that
this cascade of reality came to the fore most significantly when wierwille died. Hidden from view, this
awakening was building and building years before wierwille died.....but when he died, it unleashed this
subdued controversial mindset held in check by social pressures of acceptance."
.
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waysider
"............ the 6th corps was all "thrown out" and had
to come groveling back before the corps-program-doors opened back up."
For those who may be wondering what that was all about: It was scripted, orchestrated, staged, coordinated or whatever word you find appropriate. It was all a show........They did they same thing in FellowLaborers, at the same time. It was calculated indoctrination, designed to instill obedience.
And, they wanted you to think it happened as a result of revelation.
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TLC
I suspect he was fired.
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skyrider
Nope.
He stayed longer than he wanted....at their request, to help thru transition points.
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TLC
Well, can't say that I'm surprised. I liked him and was sad to see him leave.
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Twinky
I have come to see that this was a technique that was applied to all in-rez Corps programs - possibly WoW or FL and other programs, whatever was running at the time. Look for some aspect that hadn't been done as well, or got the demanded results, then slam the whole group, tell 'em they were all spiritually asleep and not good enough, threaten to throw them all out, and keep them stewing for a little while. Then, when they feel suitably anxious (don't forget, many had given up decent jobs, housing, and alienated or burned bridges with family and friends), then "graciously" accept them back on sufferance. They'd all be so grateful that the rest of the training (indoctrination) could be ratcheted up a notch or two.
It's just bullying and manipulation. And those who refused to be manipulated (theyd had enough and actually packed their bags and left) - well, they obviously weren't the gullible ones that TWI sought to indoctrinate. Those folks were still useful, though, because you could call them spiritual weaklings (when in fact they were quite the opposite) or homosexuals or cop-outs or whatever other slander you choose, before you say that God wouldn't even spit in their direction but call them brave or foolish (or some such) for stepping out of the protection of God's household. More manipulation.
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MRAP
Someone said above about the time since leaving the corp has required alot of unlearning - just my paraphrasing of it.
That's so true, after so much indoctrination and then going on reading and learing on your own you forget from where and who you learned it; that included decades between twi and doing any reading on STF and the REV - not really a JAL - as you say it - follower.
The thread is social pressure and that includes alot of tangents to support issues so bare/bear/beer with me.
Someone said I painted the corp with a broad brush, they are correct, I did generalize. At that time, all corp folk I came across I eventually found out to be much less than what I had thought them to be (that's where I became distrusfull of corp folk). DWBH is quite perspective regarding who/what/where/when and the numbers. Yes, thanks DWBH, you got those facts pretty much on target. Small numbers in the corp at that time and learning at the feet of the master/doctor; is that what accounted for their rotten minds (it's rhetorical)?
I will cut L.McD some slack, I always had a bit of reasonability with her - I knew her well though can no longer remember the names of her two daughters. L.Mcd tried to talk me outa the marriage, wanting us to wait (I had financial reasons because of VA educational benefits) but at the end of the day (that day), I thought she was O.K. with it. When the word went out to not attend the marriage, via the branch leader (5th corp interm) I was not sure where it came from and at that time, did not give a rat's pitoot.
Now you really make me think on this one DWBH, at that time, would a limb leader go back to the HQ on such a minor issue and then decree down to the branch leaders to not attend: just provide an opinion since it appears you are familiar with the W's of the time, if needed, I will just read around the insults - I am making an honest request.
Oh, before I forget, my appologees to any corp folk out there deserving of said appologe - you know who you are and who you are not.
Not so much a social pressure at this time, and in all reality, that BS by twi releaved both my wife and I from any more social presure by twi. Recall the line by Princess Lea in Star Wars: Lord Vadar, the tighter you grip the more systems will slip through your finders. We were thankfull of slipping through the fingers. Yet, (here's social pressure) we had already made all the arrangements to go to the ROA that year (1976), we went, we left, it was over - we thought, it was not until way into 1977 that we could cut out.
Here's the social pressue, not really social so much as guilt: we got groups (what were "groups") comining into the area, can you help to get them established with housing and jobs, etc. WTF?!!. They were something like a roving little twig, there were two groups - anybody know about such a program?
Anyway, after that, it was over, we just wanted twi to leave us alone though we consistently got correspondence, even though moving around in the military (postal service forwarding mail I suppose) we kept getting twi stuff, even in Korea. Thinking back, probably because we had committed to supporting a couple folks in the 6th corp, which we did for those years.
I think one of the last correspondence we go from twi was a LCM Homo Letter (something about homo fantasies, etc.) and that was around 1993/4, was that an after the fact letter or was that the initial homo purge. I now think about it, we got married in 1976 and we were still infected by twi until 1993.
I think back to my international WOW year and some of the older laidies in the twig (not WOWs but ladies we brought in to the class, etc.) who provided excellent advice that I did not follow. They thought we were great kids and doing a great service to God and Jesus but that we needed to be aware of the organization we were in, they understood the methods of the "sexy" branch leaders and the roving WOW's (other interm corp).
I was just too smart to listen to them, no, I was too stupid not to listen to them. What a great bunch of girls, the three of em had been friends all their lives and were very carring, it was not until later I learned how much they did for families in the branch to include financially. I should have been learning from them, they had been living their lives for decades on the principles we thought we were teaching them. I think when they left a twig meeting they just smiled and nodded to each other.
Those were the ladies that came to our marriage - I would like to think now they were also thinking: "ROAD TRIP"!! That's somehing now I regret, not giving them the due respect they deserved, I was too busy about the business of a twig leader.
You see, that's what that damn twi social pressure does to you, you disregard those good lessons you learned growing up and become a twi dweeb, thinking you are better than folks with less time in the twi process. You know that feeling when regret grabs your whole body and you know you can no longer go back to them and say things to help make it straight, not even being able to say thanks.
Ship, what a long post, can't say sorry, it's on thread.
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Twinky
You're doing all right, MRAP. It takes such a long time to disentangle from all the junk we learned. It takes humility and a willingness to accept that we were wrong (even if we were badly misled, deliberately taught wrongly) before we can begin to see aright.
For people whose first brush with Christianity was via TWI (not saying yours was), the model is truly outrageous. It's good you had those ladies in your twig to model something more loving and Christlike.
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MRAP
Well, good morning Twinky, got your coffee or is it best to say morning tea. I wanted to thank you for your prior post but got so wouned around the axle I neglected to do so. This thread is placent for convolusion and long disertations. It's a great thread and drags out memories, way too many of those past pains and ellations of the times. At the moment I am recalling a sister playing the piano and singing some 40 years ago. Now that is all way off thread but it's drag along from the memories of those social presures. GSC is just one street down the road of memory lane, it's hard to divide out some of the good stuff, not twi, but the people you knew and loved. A very hard concept to describe though the visional memory is still there. Hope you have a good day.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi MRAP.....
Linda Mac was third corpse. Her daughters' names are Becky and Amy. She was the first single parent ever in the corpse. There was no family corpse back then.
i had known Linda back in the old Way East. She lived in Natick, MA and would come down to Rye for various events. I liked her. I do not know where she is now. i hope she's well.
Geissler married this 6th corpse guy Steve Strzepek. They stayed in into the 90's and were running Gunnison when they finally quit or got the boot. They live in CT now. They signed the loyalty oath to da forehead in early 1990. i have not spoken to either one since i left in december, 1986. Linda stayed until Dave Standage, 4th corpse was there for a year, followed by Paul and Cindy Brautigam when they graduated from the 5th corpse.
A decision on whether or not believers should attend your wedding would be made at the limb level for WOWVETS. If you were a WOW, then it would include the region coordinator and Bill Winegarner the WOW coordinator at HQ. I doubt that's what occurred with your wedding. Sounds to me like whomever was your interim 5th corpse nemesis filled her head with a bunch of BS about you which Linda most likely never really checked into. Sounds like you somehow got on his/her enemies list.
I think that is most unfortunate for you and your new wife, and unfortunately, as the corpses grew in number the abuses did also. It is not uncommon for traumas like you experienced to be brought back to mind by something as simple as a name or a face. No need to apologize for any "rant" either. What i have always appreciated from the GSC is how many thousands of people have been able to accurately fit the puzzles of their years in twit together objectively with FACTS. You left nearly 40 years ago. There are members of the GSC who were in for that long and still in today. It is only after folks overcome the emotional juggernaut of realizing the truth about twit and its "leaders", that the real, objective reflection and understanding of the false doctrine and perverted practices of twit's top echelon, who were and remain a bunch of Aryan Supremacists, alcoholic serial sexual predators who taught and continue to teach anti(against)-Christ false doctrine. And, the offshoots perpetuate the same poison they stole from their "father in the word" in a "kinder, gentler" bible cult. That's the perspective i have to offer re: your experiences in WI. Hope you were able to navigate around all the insults..................peace.
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MRAP
Thanks alot there DWBH, it puts alot to rest.
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Grace Valerie Claire
George, neither did I. But, I feel like some of the leadership looked down on me, because I didn't "sell-out" completely to TWI. Â I had a life, and I wanted to live it my way; I felt that many of the leaders in TWI had certain expectations as to how "believers" were supposed to live their lives; I did not fall into that category. Â Nuts to them!
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