And, we burned a lot of bridges behind us so we couldn't simply stop and go back. We cut off our friends, families, support systems. That's something outsiders will often fail to understand when they wonder why we didn't just quit and return to life as it was.
And, we burned a lot of bridges behind us so we couldn't simply stop and go back. We cut off our friends, families, support systems. That's something outsiders will often fail to understand when they wonder why we didn't just quit and return to life as it was.
Oh yeah....
The longer one lingered in this pseudo-christian movement......camaraderie strengthened,
relationships were built, memories piled up, wow-sisters, wow-brothers, corps status,
girlfriend/boyfriend or spouses, twi-stuffed-in-laws, etc.
To disentangle oneself from all this, and wierwille-doctrine, was "the road to perdition."
After about a decade of involvement, institutionalization sets in.....
especially for them hq-staffers that have a comfy desk job.
. . . . We cut off our friends, families, support systems. That's something outsiders will often fail to understand when they wonder why we didn't just quit and return to life as it was.
Outsiders often do understand. And they use that information to their advantage. That's just a cruel truth of our culture.
Not going to throw this thread off course, but social pressure ties directly into my thesis about SIT in The Way.
Yes, it played a major role in how people responded and reacted to session #12. If their reaction was less than desirable, immediate intervention ensued. Continued failure to perform at a level that conformed to the social norm almost always resolved in a predictable manner.
A lot of people enjoyed the people in their twig and genuinely felt friendship and support from them. It was when one progressed from twig level that stuff really started to get pressurised. Which is not to say that twig leaders couldn't exert pressure, subtly or overtly, if they wanted to... the more overt were usually Corps-led twigs - but not all of them.
I think also how far one was from HQ mattered, too. Or maybe that's more of an international perspective. If you live overseas, you might see an expectation build to go to the Rock - but not to SNS or to the big HQ events.
A lot of people enjoyed the people in their twig and genuinely felt friendship and support from them. It was when one progressed from twig level that stuff really started to get pressurised. Which is not to say that twig leaders couldn't exert pressure, subtly or overtly, if they wanted to... the more overt were usually Corps-led twigs - but not all of them.
I think also how far one was from HQ mattered, too. Or maybe that's more of an international perspective. If you live overseas, you might see an expectation build to go to the Rock - but not to SNS or to the big HQ events.
Twinky....of course, social pressure within twig was more pronounced at higher levels in twi.
The ability to exert power was leveraged by forces of intimidation, isolation, dependency, etc.
as one's whole life was immersed in that subculture of exploitation.
For me, any vestiges of nostalgia that existed of "life in the twig" are now gone.
In hindsight, the perspective of my life, direction and goals were diverted, in large part,
by the social pressure and "counsel of my spiritual betters." Even in those early stages
of "twig leadership"....it was that "quit college and give your life to God" fool-hard mantra.
In my particular case, this wow-twig was selling the soap of the wierwille business, not the
Word of Life in all its fullness. Obviously, I bought the soap....and went WOW, to sell soap.
Sure, hindsight is 20/20.....but I would NOT do it again without revelation from God streaking
across the night sky, nor would I ever encourage our boys of such endeavor.
Yet, in spite of twi and social/economic/psychological pressures mounting year after year.....
we made it through this gauntlet of indoctrination. By the grace of God, I believe He made a
path that led us out of this wilderness. The scriptures pull no punches in delving into the
trappings and failings of those led astray.....and twi embodies those snares.
I agree with you, Skyrider, that there could be pressures within twigs. A lot depended on the maturity of the people running the twigs.
It was suggested to me that I give up my professional training (a two-year fixed contract) that would secure my professional career (that already had four years hard study preceding; I was one year into my prof training at the time. Idiots!!! (Of course I didn't give up my job; I gave up that twig!) They could have prayed that the manipulative senior partner, bent upon deriding his junior staff, would have a change of heart... or I could be kept out of his orbit... or ... something. But no, that didn't occur to them.
Other people were more supportive including a lovely Corps couple whom perhaps you'd know. They were a bit older and very sensible.
Other twigs do seem to have had genuine kindly support - with no pressure. But again - I'm talking of locations outside the USA.
I never did succumb to pressures to abandon non-TWI friends and family. That, and continuing to question certain aspects of TWI practice, eventually resulted in my being committed to Satan set free.
I never did succumb to pressures to abandon non-TWI friends and family. That, and continuing to question certain aspects of TWI practice, eventually resulted in my being committed to Satan set free.
George
That's wonderful, George. How long were you involved with twi?
I was in about a year longer than George! I left in '98 I think...so it was not quite 20 years. There weren't many times that I succumbed to pressures, but there were a few over the years. Once was a ROA (or 2 where I wanted to go as a family - otherwise me and the kids went) and the other was for the 40th Anniversary weekend. I wanted to go to that anyway...but hubby didn't. We compromised and twi got their way [smirk]
Several years later, I was taking a night class. It was summer nights so it was Mon-Thurs.and that meant that I didn't go to twigs during the week. Since I was fairhful with other things (in the main) they didn't yell too much about that because they knew it was important for my job. However....the twig coo'd husband's birthday fell on a tiwg nite and that same night was the final exam. I got pounded about that one. Everything from take a makeup...get the prof to reschedule the exam (right!) I held my ground and some folks gave me a cool reception but you have to do what you have to do.
Most of the time, as a wife, mother, housewife and full time teacher, when there were conflicts, I didn't run into too many difficulties as many of the women my age had similar activities. I even let our daughter do brownies and from time to time I was a "brownie mother" too...or Band mother....or baseball mother.
At that time, in our area, we had really good leadership IMHO and we covered for one another if necessary and we cooperated a lot. But there were times when I was molded by individuals, and maybe even pressures to be a "good do-be". It was nothing like how things became in later years. I felt enough pressures as a mature 50+ year old woman who had been around a while, to leave because it was so uncomfortable. I can't imagine how those who came after me stood it.
Krys's note reminds me that there were other pressures from TWI.
I owned my home, free and clear, but I lived about 40 miles from Twig (and five miles from work). Leadership wanted me to sell my house and move closer to Twig. Didn't happen. :)/>
And then the Twig leader moved to the complete other side of Houston. For his job.
Krys's note reminds me that there were other pressures from TWI.
I owned my home, free and clear, but I lived about 40 miles from Twig (and five miles from work). Leadership wanted me to sell my house and move closer to Twig. Didn't happen. :)/>/>
And then the Twig leader moved to the complete other side of Houston. For his job. :rolleyes:/>
George
Did the "leadership" offer to buy your house?
Krys's note reminds me that there were other pressures from TWI.
I owned my home, free and clear, but I lived about 40 miles from Twig (and five miles from work). Leadership wanted me to sell my house and move closer to Twig. Didn't happen. :)/>/>
And then the Twig leader moved to the complete other side of Houston. For his job. :rolleyes:/>
It never was about moving the word in twi, it was about running classes and gathering money and sending it off to HQ. If it were about moving the word then twi would not be opposed to a believer with a "twig" establishing in an area. You see, that did not work, you already drained the area for folks who would take PFAl, thus, you had nothing more to offer other than abundant sharing. That's the greatest sin, depriving folks of the word, twi intentionally stopped the movement of the word and establishment of a "church" in order to move those folks to elsewhere with a greater opportunity of collecting funds for PFAL. Regardless of the financial and family and career burdens on the folks that carried out those missions. Trust me, as a WOW and quasi WOW years back to back I understand the meaning of whore. You just need to maintain twigs and grow them.
It was saturation, the following year WOW branches (corp led) were sent to areas/cities geographically close to the previous year (30 miles). I am a military guy, I understand the strategy. Eventually, it would be an ol'e fashioned church, established folks with $ and a major foot hold.
You see, 1st year WOWs into an area were expendable, burn them out and send them off, leave a few leaders to hold the ground.
Actually, I think all I have said is bunk cause I don't think twi hq could devise a plan to go fishing let alone going word over the world.
sorry for the whine and the ha ha.
twi was/is so f'd in the head they have not learned from the mistakes of the last 40 years; an organization that takes that philosphy means that it's all about leadership raping the profits and letting the whole thing go, I give it 4 years. All the leaders will leave with the $. Any takers?
That will also be the demise of gsc, except for the doctrinal.
Waysider, my point is that HQ did not want us to stick and develop a "fellowship" of believes, friends and family, twi wanted us to keep moving and dragging in more $. If you go into an area, pull people into a fellowship, they take that class and then you "DROP" them, it's the twi way - take leadership away, take it all away. Alot like a one night stand - you can't play with people's emotions, feelings and beliefs that way. Being a WOW was alot like being a pimp.
This is just my opinion. The money from the classes was like icing on the cake, chump change, if you will. Wierwille's real goal was to establish a loyal following of believers who would ABS 10, 15, 20% of their income, payday after payday after payday. They could have given the classes away for free and still amassed a fortune.
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skyrider
When I was first introduced to twi, I was in college.....taking marketing and management classes. My textbooks delved into the strategies, target and scope of a good marketing project. Defining one
Raf
Not going to throw this thread off course, but social pressure ties directly into my thesis about SIT in The Way.
waysider
Yes, it played a major role in how people responded and reacted to session #12. If their reaction was less than desirable, immediate intervention ensued. Continued failure to perform at a level that c
waysider
And, we burned a lot of bridges behind us so we couldn't simply stop and go back. We cut off our friends, families, support systems. That's something outsiders will often fail to understand when they wonder why we didn't just quit and return to life as it was.
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skyrider
Oh yeah....
The longer one lingered in this pseudo-christian movement......camaraderie strengthened,
relationships were built, memories piled up, wow-sisters, wow-brothers, corps status,
girlfriend/boyfriend or spouses, twi-stuffed-in-laws, etc.
To disentangle oneself from all this, and wierwille-doctrine, was "the road to perdition."
After about a decade of involvement, institutionalization sets in.....
especially for them hq-staffers that have a comfy desk job.
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Bolshevik
Outsiders often do understand. And they use that information to their advantage. That's just a cruel truth of our culture.
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waysider
Yep. Manipulators. They figure out which buttons to push to get what they want.
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Raf
Not going to throw this thread off course, but social pressure ties directly into my thesis about SIT in The Way.
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waysider
Yes, it played a major role in how people responded and reacted to session #12. If their reaction was less than desirable, immediate intervention ensued. Continued failure to perform at a level that conformed to the social norm almost always resolved in a predictable manner.
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skyrider
Absolutely agree with you on that, Raf.
That's why I noted "repetitive manifestations" in my first post above.
Twi's version of sit/manifestations as a staple of twig fellowships added a social/acceptable conscience
to the "believer's exclusionary club." If you did it right, you were accepted.
No matter that it was repetitive, contrived, or whatever.....after about a decade or so
of sitting thru the religious-ruse, doesn't any one look around and ask some pertinent
questions? Profit? Fruit? Prevailing Power?
Yep, sit/int was a small slice in the "social pressure pie."
.
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Rocky
Not without a significant emotional event.
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Twinky
We've been here before, Skyrider.
A lot of people enjoyed the people in their twig and genuinely felt friendship and support from them. It was when one progressed from twig level that stuff really started to get pressurised. Which is not to say that twig leaders couldn't exert pressure, subtly or overtly, if they wanted to... the more overt were usually Corps-led twigs - but not all of them.
I think also how far one was from HQ mattered, too. Or maybe that's more of an international perspective. If you live overseas, you might see an expectation build to go to the Rock - but not to SNS or to the big HQ events.
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skyrider
Twinky....of course, social pressure within twig was more pronounced at higher levels in twi.
The ability to exert power was leveraged by forces of intimidation, isolation, dependency, etc.
as one's whole life was immersed in that subculture of exploitation.
For me, any vestiges of nostalgia that existed of "life in the twig" are now gone.
In hindsight, the perspective of my life, direction and goals were diverted, in large part,
by the social pressure and "counsel of my spiritual betters." Even in those early stages
of "twig leadership"....it was that "quit college and give your life to God" fool-hard mantra.
In my particular case, this wow-twig was selling the soap of the wierwille business, not the
Word of Life in all its fullness. Obviously, I bought the soap....and went WOW, to sell soap.
Sure, hindsight is 20/20.....but I would NOT do it again without revelation from God streaking
across the night sky, nor would I ever encourage our boys of such endeavor.
Yet, in spite of twi and social/economic/psychological pressures mounting year after year.....
we made it through this gauntlet of indoctrination. By the grace of God, I believe He made a
path that led us out of this wilderness. The scriptures pull no punches in delving into the
trappings and failings of those led astray.....and twi embodies those snares.
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Twinky
I agree with you, Skyrider, that there could be pressures within twigs. A lot depended on the maturity of the people running the twigs.
It was suggested to me that I give up my professional training (a two-year fixed contract) that would secure my professional career (that already had four years hard study preceding; I was one year into my prof training at the time. Idiots!!! (Of course I didn't give up my job; I gave up that twig!) They could have prayed that the manipulative senior partner, bent upon deriding his junior staff, would have a change of heart... or I could be kept out of his orbit... or ... something. But no, that didn't occur to them.
Other people were more supportive including a lovely Corps couple whom perhaps you'd know. They were a bit older and very sensible.
Other twigs do seem to have had genuine kindly support - with no pressure. But again - I'm talking of locations outside the USA.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I never did succumb to pressures to abandon non-TWI friends and family. That, and continuing to question certain aspects of TWI practice, eventually resulted in my being committed to Satan set free.
George
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Rocky
That's wonderful, George. How long were you involved with twi?
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Bolshevik
Bang on a stranger's door during dinner time tell them about God's word. Ignore the silent stares and disgust from society.
Can't stand up to a twig leader. Why? Social pressure.
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GeorgeStGeorge
About 19 years. I started attending fellowships in the summer of 1978 and was cut loose in the fall of 1997.
George
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krys
I was in about a year longer than George! I left in '98 I think...so it was not quite 20 years. There weren't many times that I succumbed to pressures, but there were a few over the years. Once was a ROA (or 2 where I wanted to go as a family - otherwise me and the kids went) and the other was for the 40th Anniversary weekend. I wanted to go to that anyway...but hubby didn't. We compromised and twi got their way [smirk]
Several years later, I was taking a night class. It was summer nights so it was Mon-Thurs.and that meant that I didn't go to twigs during the week. Since I was fairhful with other things (in the main) they didn't yell too much about that because they knew it was important for my job. However....the twig coo'd husband's birthday fell on a tiwg nite and that same night was the final exam. I got pounded about that one. Everything from take a makeup...get the prof to reschedule the exam (right!) I held my ground and some folks gave me a cool reception but you have to do what you have to do.
Most of the time, as a wife, mother, housewife and full time teacher, when there were conflicts, I didn't run into too many difficulties as many of the women my age had similar activities. I even let our daughter do brownies and from time to time I was a "brownie mother" too...or Band mother....or baseball mother.
At that time, in our area, we had really good leadership IMHO and we covered for one another if necessary and we cooperated a lot. But there were times when I was molded by individuals, and maybe even pressures to be a "good do-be". It was nothing like how things became in later years. I felt enough pressures as a mature 50+ year old woman who had been around a while, to leave because it was so uncomfortable. I can't imagine how those who came after me stood it.
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skyrider
Twinky....yes, I agree with your assessment on the maturity of those running twigs.
Clearly, I understand that my situation was different. My introduction to twi, or first twig,
was NOT grounded in the community with mature leadership who handled matters of life and living
from a broad spectrum of experience (like an Edd!e and D0nna Doers@m).
Nope. It was a WOW-twig sent solely into my college town to run pfal classes. So, obviously....
they were young-bloods with energy and running classes added to THEIR success. My mistake was
when I allowed their counsel to have any merit in my decision-making or goals.
Oh well....I count it all but cattle-dung nowadays.
skyrider
.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Krys's note reminds me that there were other pressures from TWI.
I owned my home, free and clear, but I lived about 40 miles from Twig (and five miles from work). Leadership wanted me to sell my house and move closer to Twig. Didn't happen. :)/>
And then the Twig leader moved to the complete other side of Houston. For his job.
George
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MRAP
Did the "leadership" offer to buy your house?
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MRAP
It never was about moving the word in twi, it was about running classes and gathering money and sending it off to HQ. If it were about moving the word then twi would not be opposed to a believer with a "twig" establishing in an area. You see, that did not work, you already drained the area for folks who would take PFAl, thus, you had nothing more to offer other than abundant sharing. That's the greatest sin, depriving folks of the word, twi intentionally stopped the movement of the word and establishment of a "church" in order to move those folks to elsewhere with a greater opportunity of collecting funds for PFAL. Regardless of the financial and family and career burdens on the folks that carried out those missions. Trust me, as a WOW and quasi WOW years back to back I understand the meaning of whore. You just need to maintain twigs and grow them.
It was saturation, the following year WOW branches (corp led) were sent to areas/cities geographically close to the previous year (30 miles). I am a military guy, I understand the strategy. Eventually, it would be an ol'e fashioned church, established folks with $ and a major foot hold.
You see, 1st year WOWs into an area were expendable, burn them out and send them off, leave a few leaders to hold the ground.
Actually, I think all I have said is bunk cause I don't think twi hq could devise a plan to go fishing let alone going word over the world.
sorry for the whine and the ha ha.
twi was/is so f'd in the head they have not learned from the mistakes of the last 40 years; an organization that takes that philosphy means that it's all about leadership raping the profits and letting the whole thing go, I give it 4 years. All the leaders will leave with the $. Any takers?
That will also be the demise of gsc, except for the doctrinal.
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waysider
"......mature leadership who handled matters of life and living
from a broad spectrum of experience (like an Edd!e and D0nna Doers@m)."
They ran the last twig I was a part of. Genuinely good people. I have nothing but good things to say about them.
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MRAP
Waysider, my point is that HQ did not want us to stick and develop a "fellowship" of believes, friends and family, twi wanted us to keep moving and dragging in more $. If you go into an area, pull people into a fellowship, they take that class and then you "DROP" them, it's the twi way - take leadership away, take it all away. Alot like a one night stand - you can't play with people's emotions, feelings and beliefs that way. Being a WOW was alot like being a pimp.
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waysider
This is just my opinion. The money from the classes was like icing on the cake, chump change, if you will. Wierwille's real goal was to establish a loyal following of believers who would ABS 10, 15, 20% of their income, payday after payday after payday. They could have given the classes away for free and still amassed a fortune.
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GeorgeStGeorge
:lol:/> AHAHHAHAHHHAHAH! (coffee spew)
Hell, they probably wanted 10% of the profit!
George
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