Loathing the Overlords

[skyrider]

In the ranking of overlords, twi is small ball......but they do exert authority and power

over all the others in their neighborhood. And, what a dismal neighborhood it is.

Twi-overlords feast at the tables by deceiving others. Their claim is that you NEED them,

because they FEED those among you and take oversight to care for you......as they extort

and exploit your life and livelihood until you have nothing else to give. You pay for the

classes, books, events, magazines, tapes, love-offerings, gifts, etc.....and STILL send in

your 15% for this "oversight and care."

As months roll into years, and years into decades....the unsuspecting fail to see the ruse.

They hold you ACCOUNTABLE for "doing the word" while they, the overlords and hq-staffers,

don't have to ("do the word").....just their pigeon-holed job. Easy-peasy -- for them!!

Yet, you have got to 1)do your job, 2)do the outreach, 3)care for others, 4)teach, preach

and run classes, 5)shoulder much responsibility.....AND, 6)PAY OVERLORDS FOR THE PRIVILEGE.

The arrogance wreaks throughout the halls of the OSC.

What a religious-ruse the overlords have played on the gullible.

[MRAP]

Well, yes, skyrider but I gave up dis'n on these sort of folk and their ilk. I beleive in the here-after and if that is real, then they will be getting their due (or un-due as it were at the Bema). Sometimes I want to say: "Let it go", but that will never happen, revenge runs deep, even on the dead. I respond more seldom on GSC since all the hate I read would, at least to me, breed an inner discontent with even more of my past in twi. Sure, that was time quite often ill spent but to continuously dwell on the hate reminds me of a phrase from "Red Dawn": All that hates gonna eat you up kid. I think the GSC site has made its' point many times over and correctly so but can we exhibit some forgiveness. You know, like, thank you Lord that you can forgive Craig,M for being a dick. Listen, words spoken don't mean squat in a prayer, it's what is in your heart since that's what the Lord looks at.

[Rocky]

Well, yes, skyrider but I gave up dis'n on these sort of folk and their ilk. I beleive in the here-after and if that is real, then they will be getting their due (or un-due as it were at the Bema). Sometimes I want to say: "Let it go", but that will never happen, revenge runs deep, even on the dead. I respond more seldom on GSC since all the hate I read would, at least to me, breed an inner discontent with even more of my past in twi. Sure, that was time quite often ill spent but to continuously dwell on the hate reminds me of a phrase from "Red Dawn": All that hates gonna eat you up kid. I think the GSC site has made its' point many times over and correctly so but can we exhibit some forgiveness. You know, like, thank you Lord that you can forgive Craig,M for being a dick. Listen, words spoken don't mean squat in a prayer, it's what is in your heart since that's what the Lord looks at.

Hate toward you? Nah... just disagreement. Like, disagreeing that the issue for many here is "revenge." I would suggest you may simply not be aware of the emotional ramifications of the spiritual abuse many of us lived through.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Rocky

[MRAP]

Hate toward you? Nah... just disagreement. Like, disagreeing that the issue for many here is "revenge." I would suggest you may simply not be aware of the emotional ramifications of the spiritual abuse many of us lived through.

[MRAP]

Rocky, the hate I quoted was the hate exhibited by quite a few GSC posters towards twi - I was not speaking about any hate by GSC posters towards me - if I gave that impression than I had better proof my writings prior to posting.

Now, I must disagree with your aspect of "spiritual abuse", simply because I have never heard of such a term - sounds more like some sort of demonic junk but I don't think that's how you meant it. Correct me since I want to understand your intent: you meant it in the mind set that so called spiritual folks dissed on followers with the supposition they were spiritual dumb asses. Now, if that's what you meant, then I also am a victem of the emotional ramifications of spiritual abuse: hey, I was a WOW in the branch leaders family - branch leader being a 4th Corp Gal (yeh, I understand that continual emotional beat down). About half way through the year I began to understand she "had issues" thus, I rationalized my continued trust in twi and spent another year on the field (state program, back then twi would not let you go WOW back to back). Yup, I blah'd but I did stay on topic (Overlords): Hey, ain't that a line from Lead Zepplin's Immigrant song?

[skyrider]

Yeah.....you gotta love someone who stalks you from thread to thread telling you

what they've discerned in your heart. lol

Even though I exited twi nearly 20 years ago.....I've got this twi-apologist who

keeps trying to tell me how to live my life. Rather than an open discussion on

the substance and abuse of twi's methods, MRAP offers up labels

and trite clichés and misdirection. Nice try, though.

Many of us posters are keenly aware of bullying tactics....having run the twi-gauntlet

many years ago. We learned our lessons well.

The two main purposes of this thread:

1) Expose the overlords, the bullies

2) Show the contrast to "lowly-followers" (who are fleeced)

THOSE ON THE FIELD:

"Yet, you have got to 1)do your job, 2)do the outreach, 3)care for others, 4)teach, preach

and run classes, 5)shoulder much responsibility.....AND, 6)PAY OVERLORDS FOR THE PRIVILEGE."

I think the Lord fights for the "little guy".....and I stand with him/her.

[Rocky]

Rocky, the hate I quoted was the hate exhibited by quite a few GSC posters towards twi - I was not speaking about any hate by GSC posters towards me - if I gave that impression than I had better proof my writings prior to posting.

Now, I must disagree with your aspect of "spiritual abuse", simply because I have never heard of such a term - sounds more like some sort of demonic junk but I don't think that's how you meant it. Correct me since I want to understand your intent: you meant it in the mind set that so called spiritual folks dissed on followers with the supposition they were spiritual dumb asses. Now, if that's what you meant, then I also am a victem of the emotional ramifications of spiritual abuse: hey, I was a WOW in the branch leaders family - branch leader being a 4th Corp Gal (yeh, I understand that continual emotional beat down). About half way through the year I began to understand she "had issues" thus, I rationalized my continued trust in twi and spent another year on the field (state program, back then twi would not let you go WOW back to back). Yup, I blah'd but I did stay on topic (Overlords): Hey, ain't that a line from Lead Zepplin's Immigrant song?

[/quote]

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse

It wasn't something I thought up.

But it IS something Wierwille inflicted on tens of thousands of us... or more.

[waysider]

Loathing the Overlords

That would have made a good title for a sequel to Athletes of the Spirit.

[Raf]

The correct thing to do when you have never heard of a term is look it up, not dismiss it.

There is more evidence for "spiritual anuse" than there is for spirits.

[skyrider]

In a nutshell, this is the gnawing question that NEEDS ANSWERING....

The scriptures give multiple examples, parables, similes, teachings, etc. regarding true shepherds

vs. hirelings, he that is greatest among you shall be your servant, men that have hazarded their lives

for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ [Acts 15:26], etc. etc......

The question: How can twi and board of directors claim that they are anywhere near godliness,

uprightness, or double-honor "ministering" when all they do is pontificate their re-hashed script

from hundreds/thousands of miles away for profit and adulation and leisure?

Twi DNA is Pharisee DNA. [Matthew 15]

Twi DNA is woefully evil. [Jeremiah 23]

The unsuspecting are caught in a snare and need to be set free.

Guilt, shame and spiritual bullying needs to STOP.

THOSE ON THE FIELD:

"You pay for the classes, books, events, magazines, tapes, love-offerings, gifts, etc.....

and STILL send in your 15% for this "oversight and care."

"Yet, you have got to 1)do your job, 2)do the outreach, 3)care for others, 4)teach, preach

and run classes, 5)shoulder much responsibility.....AND, 6)PAY OVERLORDS FOR THE PRIVILEGE."

[waysider]

Spirituality is a perception of reality upon which people base their beliefs and subsequent actions. (Whether spirits actually exist is a whole separate issue.) When someone exploits or abuses the (spirituality type) perception of others, they are committing spiritual abuse, thus negatively affecting the lives of those holding the perceptions.

edit: Perception abuse might be a more accurate term but it's too nebulous to grab anyone's attention.

Edited February 13, 2016 by waysider

[Bolshevik]

Well, yes, skyrider but I gave up dis'n on these sort of folk and their ilk. I beleive in the here-after and if that is real, then they will be getting their due (or un-due as it were at the Bema). Sometimes I want to say: "Let it go", but that will never happen, revenge runs deep, even on the dead. I respond more seldom on GSC since all the hate I read would, at least to me, breed an inner discontent with even more of my past in twi. Sure, that was time quite often ill spent but to continuously dwell on the hate reminds me of a phrase from "Red Dawn": All that hates gonna eat you up kid. I think the GSC site has made its' point many times over and correctly so but can we exhibit some forgiveness. You know, like, thank you Lord that you can forgive Craig,M for being a dick. Listen, words spoken don't mean squat in a prayer, it's what is in your heart since that's what the Lord looks at.

I believe the Bema, for the Wayfer, is more about reward than punishment. In The Way, there was no real system to correct a wrong-doing, other than banishment or deferring to the after-life. I personally have come to the conclusion that deferring to the after-life is cowardly and lazy. Rather than rectifying a problem, say "God will fix it later". Banishment, mark and avoid, isn't much different than that in practice. In both cases, isn't there acknowledgement that there is a problem?

Spiritual Abuse. Emotional Abuse. Religious Abuse. Verbal Abuse. They seem to have one word in common.

Is it hate, or might resentment be a better term? This anger is directed at leadership. Hate is between perceived equals.

I agree that inner-turmoil will eat you up. But I think some expression of that is warranted, if we're trying to diagnose what's been thrown off balance. Sure, there needs to be some letting go, but dismissing the wrong-doing is not an honest solution, either. Often, citing forgiveness is just a platitude used for avoiding taking responsibility, If I can avoid acknowledging the problem, then I am free to do nothing.

What gave leadership its power and ability to abuse? Who is responsible for that?

[WordWolf]

Hate toward you? Nah... just disagreement. Like, disagreeing that the issue for many here is "revenge." I would suggest you may simply not be aware of the emotional ramifications of the spiritual abuse many of us lived through.

(snip)Now, I must disagree with your aspect of "spiritual abuse", simply because I have never heard of such a term - sounds more like some sort of demonic junk but I don't think that's how you meant it.(snip)

The correct thing to do when you have never heard of a term is look it up, not dismiss it.

There is more evidence for "spiritual abuse" than there is for spirits.

[/quote]

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse

It wasn't something I thought up.

But it IS something Wierwille inflicted on tens of thousands of us... or more.

[TLC]

Even though I exited twi nearly 20 years ago.....

I think the Lord fights for the "little guy".....and I stand with him/her.

You stuck that long? late 90's?

(I seem to recall you mentioning elsewhere you were at HQ for 5 yrs, sometime in the late 70's early 80's,)

When did you think to start fighting for the "little guy"?

...just curious, I suppose.

[TLC]

As "wrong" as things were with vp, there's little doubt that it went south from there after '85.

And if blame or ill-will can be pushed back, why bother stopping at one that's dead already? did it originate with him?

Yeah, I "get" that some were directly affected by him, while many more here were by those that were very close to him.

But let's not forget that this is a spiritual warfare, with spiritual reasons and causes, not merely flesh and blood.

[waysider]

You stuck that long? late 90's?

(I seem to recall you mentioning elsewhere you were at HQ for 5 yrs, sometime in the late 70's early 80's,)

When did you think to start fighting for the "little guy"?

...just curious, I suppose.

People in abusive domestic relationships get these types of questions, too. It doesn't excuse what happened, it shifts the blame.

"did it originate with him?"

Yes, I believe it did. If you stick around here long enough to get a comprehensive, objective understanding of how "the ministry" evolved, you begin to see that it was corrupt from its very beginnings.

Edited February 13, 2016 by waysider

[Bolshevik]

. . .

And if blame or ill-will can be pushed back, why bother stopping at one that's dead already? did it originate with him?

. . .

According to Generally Accepted Greasespot (GAG) Theory. Yep.

What conditions influenced, allowed, propelled, sparked, and permitted him to do what he did? Good question. But off topic.

[skyrider]

..........not merely flesh and blood.

No, but lets not diminish it either.

Sandra Ann Sullivan

[skyrider]

As "wrong" as things were with vp, there's little doubt that it went south from there after '85.

And if blame or ill-will can be pushed back, why bother stopping at one that's dead already? did it originate with him?

Yeah, I "get" that some were directly affected by him, while many more here were by those that were very close to him.

But let's not forget that this is a spiritual warfare, with spiritual reasons and causes, not merely flesh and blood.

......went south after '85.

????????

TLC...either you're blame-shifting (to protect vpw-legacy)

or you need to spend more time reading GSC to connect dots.

[TLC]

People in abusive domestic relationships get these types of questions, too. It doesn't excuse what happened, it shifts the blame.

"did it originate with him?"

Yes, I believe it did. If you stick around here long enough to get a comprehensive, objective understanding of how "the ministry" evolved, you begin to see that it was corrupt from its very beginnings.

You misunderstood my post. I wasn't shifting or steering poo away from, or around him (and I'm probably much more aware of how "the ministry" evolved than you appear to be giving me credit for.) When I ask whether or not it "originated" with him did not mean that I thought it somehow magically "avoided" him. I see it as passing through him. Yes, he could have stopped it (as can be said of us all.) But he didn't.

[Bolshevik]

......went south after '85.

????????

TLC...either you're blame-shifting (to protect vpw-legacy)

or you need to spend more time reading GSC to connect dots.

I believe George Washington was guilty of genocide, and did some other bad deads. I haven't left the United States.

[TLC]

......went south after '85.

????????

TLC...either you're blame-shifting (to protect vpw-legacy)

or you need to spend more time reading GSC to connect dots.

Okay, you're right. My mistake. I should have said "went much further south after '85."

How about my other question, sky?

When did you think to start fighting for the "little guy"?

Edited February 13, 2016 by TLC

[waysider]

I believe George Washington was guilty of genocide, and did some other bad deads. I haven't left the United States.

Well, you really should, you know. Now that you're aware, you really have no other choice.

[skyrider]

How about my other question, sky?

When did you think to start fighting for the "little guy"?

1978

When I went in-residence corps and heard wierwille spewing his "cop-out doctrine".....ie anyone

who left was "copping-out on God." Red flags. Spiritually, I cringed.....and deep down

pondered "could wierwille really be this OFF THE WORD?"

Was I the only one disturbed by this bullying?

Ever since then, for years.....I thought there were enough good wholesome people in twi

to expunge the bad, even wierwille doctrine. Yet, year after year....the good left for

greener pastures.

Having grown up on a wheat farm, I was fully aware that weeds grow in wheat.....

but the overwhelming harvest yields thousands of bushels of grain, not weeds.

Yet, in twi......the WEEDS overtook the wheat field.

A "bad farmer" [ie...trustees] wasn't tending to his fields.

The First Red Flag

Untoward Secrecy

Most Fiery Confrontations

Moving Beyond Wierwille

[Rocky]

But let's not forget that this is a spiritual warfare, with spiritual reasons and causes, not merely flesh and blood.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Essentially, everything Wierwille taught has been brought into question.

Basing your life on "spiritual warfare" might be a waste of your life's resources.

It's also part of the fundamentals of what enabled the "overlords" to gain control of the lives and minds of so many people.

Basing your life on loving your family and community and serving out of love seems a much more worthy endeavor.

Yes, in this case, I do see it as "either/or."