How

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Hi All!

My 2 cents FWIW...... I think that entire rap about the drunk showing up at choich, whether invented or real, is part of a subtle thread which runs throughout piffle. It's like the red thread. What is it? An attempt by vic to pre-emptively mitigate the accusations which had been thrown at him effectively before this filming project in late 1967. Namely that, vic was a drunk and a "womanizer". These went as far back as Van Wert and were definitely part of why the UCC dangcanned him. They fired him and then he wrote his "resignation" letter in August, 1956 or 57.

Upon moving it all back to the family farm where he grew up in New Knoxville, the locals, who couldn't stand young vic when he lived among them, were not shaking their heads that the boy was fired by the Church for drinking and carousing with his young secretary Rhoda Beckett, a Mennonite from NY, along with others in his congregation. The "rumors" were quite effective because first of all, they were factual, and secondly, the NK residents were quite well aware of vic's varied peccadilloes while he terrorized the town's girls and bullied the boys. So, when he returned to the family farm after being fired by the UCC, H.E. bought up the shares of the other siblings, and he was back home facing the reputation he had made for himself as a young man in town and the rumors, which everyone knew were true, of why the church fired him. And so the feud was rekindled and continues today even though no wierwilles are left in twit.

Piffle was filmed in Dayton. The biggest fellowships were in Troy, Xenia, and several towns surrounding New Knoxville like Sidney and St. Mary's. Vic's church along with all the whispers about the fired UCC guy who had his own church now. The rumors never stopped and now followed him wherever he went. So, he constantly did everything he could to squelch, deny, and minimalize the rumors even in piffle. Examples? The drunk story. Vic was a boozer since high school. Everybody knew it. He'd get dangfaced and race his motorcycle all over the place doing "tricks" and scaring people. He was the prankster, practical joker who consistently ....ed people off. The NKers knew all this. So did Shelby and auglaize county sheriffs. So, the whole drunk story was throw in there not to teach grace but rather to obviate vic's "license to sin" practice of grace. How did he respond to the drunk guy incident? He became one! But, we don't need to confront him. We need to love and forgive him by god's grace just like vic

Did for the drunk and like Jesus does for you. "That's the living thing to do."

Then, in that section in Acts where he's "handling" Paul's thorn in the flesh. Remember? "Whaddya think his back looked

like? Whaddya think his back looked like? Why some even accused the great Apostle Paul of being a sex pervert! A sex pervert! Imagine that? Well I'd sure as heck would need to be absolutely sure I was right before I'd lay something like that at the feet of the greatest apostle in the first century church! That's riiight! A sex pervert! Lordy Pete!". Sound familiar? Interesting he'd throw that one specific charge in there that is NOT recorded anywhere in scripture. Again, a pre-emotive strike to obviate the other FACT about Vic that followed him his whole life. A drunken molester of women and a bully. And, the pre-emptive obviating was quite effective all through the 70's. But, then the facts caught up with them all, and down fell the cradle, baby and all. Vic was ALWAYS on alert. But the young jerks like da forehead, Beence finnegan, wrenn, lynn, and a bunch of other young turks were lazy. They had it handed to them and thought it was their right. Didn't take long before they all got caught and when the heat started turning on Vic, he retired and got outta dodge. And, when he died he left Geer behind to take it all back from the guys who screwed it all up......his oldest biological son Don, his best friend Howard, and his best student da forehead. He died a "winner" and took his balls to the grave with him. Which is why his son Don, at the end of a Yak Twig meeting in the motorcycle shed in 1986, tearfully screamed......"He's .... dead and still he tortures me from the grave!". Nice legacy.

[Steve Lortz]

Thanks, DWBH!

Love,

Steve

[Bolshevik]

Awesome, Thanks DWBH.

. . .

So, the whole drunk story was throw in there not to teach grace but rather to obviate vic's "license to sin" practice of grace. How did he respond to the drunk guy incident? He became one! But, we don't need to confront him. We need to love and forgive him by god's grace just like vic

Did for the drunk and like Jesus does for you. "That's the living thing to do."

. . .

So here, VPW neatly nestles in a little story, preparing the PFAL grad's mind on HOW to respond when the truth happens to be revealed down the road?

Got a problem with VPW's drunkenness? YOU, PFAL grad, agreed that it was okay many, many YEARS ago! But HOW you ask!? HA!

[Bolshevik]

Everyone takes away something different from the story. The big thing I take away from it is the blatant hypocrisy of Wierwille vowing to never preach another negative. Once we got past the basic classes and committed to one of the training programs, we were guaranteed to hear all the negative directives we could ever imagine or want.

I agree. I think PFAL was like a net, there were many stories, right? If one didn't catch the way intended, another might, and in conjunction with others maybe? And if a story didn't tangle you the first time, your own peers might discuss it with you later.

For every soft-spoken word, there were much harsher words later in the timeline. He had to lower your guard first, then deliver the damage.

I disagree.

Just because someone remembers something, that doesn't make it nostalgic.

Now if someone like MRAP goes on to embrace the reasons for remembering it,

then yes......that would fall in that category.

One aspect of the "how" illustration was to help set the HOOK

in the "importance of the vpw-ministry." Note the quotation marks.

By "old-timers", I meant currently involved in TWI. I think we might agree then?

Edited to add, I see "importance of the vpw-ministry", I'll get back on that. You've got the emotional work-up with the Drunkard, and the "HOW" to rally around.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Bolshevik

[skyrider]

Then, in that section in Acts where he's "handling" Paul's thorn in the flesh. Remember? "Whaddya think his back looked

like? Whaddya think his back looked like? Why some even accused the great Apostle Paul of being a sex pervert! A sex pervert! Imagine that? Well I'd sure as heck would need to be absolutely sure I was right before I'd lay something like that at the feet of the greatest apostle in the first century church! That's riiight! A sex pervert! Lordy Pete!". Sound familiar? Interesting he'd throw that one specific charge in there that is NOT recorded anywhere in scripture. Again, a pre-emotive strike to obviate the other FACT about Vic that followed him his whole life. A drunken molester of women and a bully. And, the pre-emptive obviating was quite effective all through the 70's. But, then the facts caught up with them all,...<snip>

Brilliant post, DWBH......thanks!

Through the years, I've thought about the strategy of pfal and how certain teaching points,

stories, or off-the-cuff zingers [ie....preemptive strikes] were strategically placed.

1) The mother feared the death of her little boy....and one day, it happened.

2) All the women in the kingdom.....belong to the king.

3) The town drunk who showed up at church....don't judge, you've never walked in his shoes.

4) If you go after the man of God....his life, his work, his tie....get down to bare facts.

5) I would need to read it line by line....before calling the great Apostle Paul a sex pervert.

6) Billboard sign -- millions now smoking.....subliminal message from a smoker?

Some things seemed like preemptive strikes....and other times, when he was dismissive of things,

he was simply ignoring it for reasons that railroaded his sociopathic agendas.

[Bolshevik]

Brilliant post, DWBH......thanks!

Through the years, I've thought about the strategy of pfal and how certain teaching points,

stories, or off-the-cuff zingers [ie....preemptive strikes] were strategically placed.

1) The mother feared the death of her little boy....and one day, it happened.

2) All the women in the kingdom.....belong to the king.

3) The town drunk who showed up at church....don't judge, you've never walked in his shoes.

4) If you go after the man of God....his life, his work, his tie....get down to bare facts.

5) I would need to read it line by line....before calling the great Apostle Paul a sex pervert.

6) Billboard sign -- millions now smoking.....subliminal message from a smoker?

Some things seemed like preemptive strikes....and other times, when he was dismissive of things,

he was simply ignoring it for reasons that railroaded his sociopathic agendas.

Can't really follow any of this. I'm sure this can be a topic for another thread.

[Bolshevik]

I disagree.

Just because someone remembers something, that doesn't make it nostalgic.

Now if someone like MRAP goes on to embrace the reasons for remembering it,

then yes......that would fall in that category.

One aspect of the "how" illustration was to help set the HOOK

in the "importance of the vpw-ministry." Note the quotation marks.

Obviously, they do remember to some nostalgic-like effect. TWI's website I cited I think is from over 30 years past VPW's death. And why else would they write it?

I don't know why another poster has been called out, but maybe they have some insight?

[Rocky]

Maybe I'm soft, but I don't see a problem with inventing anecdotes to demonstrate a point. It's only a problem if you somehow assert the veracity of the anecdote to prove something demonstrably false.

More or less agree... well, with YOUR main point. Obviously, fiction writers do this all the time.

But, Wierwille implied, even if not explicitly stating, that he was setting forth an account of something that actually happened.

I suppose.

Does it matter when Jesus taught the story of the Prodigal Son that the story he told probably never took place? He was illustrating forgiveness and the father's desire to have his son come home. So what if the story never actually happened.

Now, if someone were to say The Prodigal Son was Jim Smith, and this proves Jim Smith had the favor of his dad over his brother, then we're talking about a different use of the story. Then it MATTERS whether it actually took place. But for the purpose of what Jesus taught, it doesn't matter.

Make sense?

Indeed, the parable was obviously a story, never implied as being actual events.

Yes, Thank you Raf.

I personally don't care about the truthfulness of whether it happened or not.

Assuming he made it up, I don't think VPW even made up a good story.

Within VPW's telling of the story (from the collective memory here) I think there may be problems with the way VPW handled the Drunk, and that says something about VPW, and the people he "reached". Most folks who took "The Class" were very young the first time (early 20s?), is what I understand. I'd like to find and articulate the error in the class-takers judgment. I'm hopeful understanding that can be helpful.

The "HOW" also serves today for "old-timers" as nostalgic, probably reinforcing old Waybrain thinking, and probably in a very subtle way.

Yep, I was 20.

[Rocky]

Hi All!

My 2 cents FWIW...... I think that entire rap about the drunk showing up at choich, whether invented or real, is part of a subtle thread which runs throughout piffle. It's like the red thread. What is it? An attempt by vic to pre-emptively mitigate the accusations which had been thrown at him effectively before this filming project in late 1967. Namely that, vic was a drunk and a "womanizer". These went as far back as Van Wert and were definitely part of why the UCC dangcanned him. They fired him and then he wrote his "resignation" letter in August, 1956 or 57.

Upon moving it all back to the family farm where he grew up in New Knoxville, the locals, who couldn't stand young vic when he lived among them, were not shaking their heads that the boy was fired by the Church for drinking and carousing with his young secretary Rhoda Beckett, a Mennonite from NY, along with others in his congregation. The "rumors" were quite effective because first of all, they were factual, and secondly, the NK residents were quite well aware of vic's varied peccadilloes while he terrorized the town's girls and bullied the boys. So, when he returned to the family farm after being fired by the UCC, H.E. bought up the shares of the other siblings, and he was back home facing the reputation he had made for himself as a young man in town and the rumors, which everyone knew were true, of why the church fired him. And so the feud was rekindled and continues today even though no wierwilles are left in twit.

Piffle was filmed in Dayton. The biggest fellowships were in Troy, Xenia, and several towns surrounding New Knoxville like Sidney and St. Mary's. Vic's church along with all the whispers about the fired UCC guy who had his own church now. The rumors never stopped and now followed him wherever he went. So, he constantly did everything he could to squelch, deny, and minimalize the rumors even in piffle. Examples? The drunk story. Vic was a boozer since high school. Everybody knew it. He'd get dangfaced and race his motorcycle all over the place doing "tricks" and scaring people. He was the prankster, practical joker who consistently ....ed people off. The NKers knew all this. So did Shelby and auglaize county sheriffs. So, the whole drunk story was throw in there not to teach grace but rather to obviate vic's "license to sin" practice of grace. How did he respond to the drunk guy incident? He became one! But, we don't need to confront him. We need to love and forgive him by god's grace just like vic

Did for the drunk and like Jesus does for you. "That's the living thing to do."

Then, in that section in Acts where he's "handling" Paul's thorn in the flesh. Remember? "Whaddya think his back looked

like? Whaddya think his back looked like? Why some even accused the great Apostle Paul of being a sex pervert! A sex pervert! Imagine that? Well I'd sure as heck would need to be absolutely sure I was right before I'd lay something like that at the feet of the greatest apostle in the first century church! That's riiight! A sex pervert! Lordy Pete!". Sound familiar? Interesting he'd throw that one specific charge in there that is NOT recorded anywhere in scripture. Again, a pre-emotive strike to obviate the other FACT about Vic that followed him his whole life. A drunken molester of women and a bully. And, the pre-emptive obviating was quite effective all through the 70's. But, then the facts caught up with them all, and down fell the cradle, baby and all. Vic was ALWAYS on alert. But the young jerks like da forehead, Beence finnegan, wrenn, lynn, and a bunch of other young turks were lazy. They had it handed to them and thought it was their right. Didn't take long before they all got caught and when the heat started turning on Vic, he retired and got outta dodge. And, when he died he left Geer behind to take it all back from the guys who screwed it all up......his oldest biological son Don, his best friend Howard, and his best student da forehead. He died a "winner" and took his balls to the grave with him. Which is why his son Don, at the end of a Yak Twig meeting in the motorcycle shed in 1986, tearfully screamed......"He's .... dead and still he tortures me from the grave!". Nice legacy.

That makes a helluva lot of sense!

[Bolshevik]

. . .

Yep, I was 20.

Do you happen to remember how the *HOW* it struck you then? What emotions were conveyed?

(We've got the HOW-Drunk origin established, I think. It's interesting. Can't connect with a Wayfer today with that story though, HA!)

[Rocky]

Do you happen to remember how the *HOW* it struck you then? What emotions were conveyed?

(We've got the HOW-Drunk origin established, I think. It's interesting. Can't connect with a Wayfer today with that story though, HA!)

Well, it was 42 years ago... but what I do remember is... the date I first met the guy who "got me in the word."

It was October 31, 1974. I was in the USAF overseas on a Portuguese island. A small AFB. I had been attending chapel services and fellowships.

This guy showed up and he had a confidence and claimed to have answers. The drunk story didn't really mean much to me (it was only the following summer

when we had enough people to "run a class").

The combination of being on an isolated island, away from familiar American culture, not so many peers to have much in common with, and a confident guy who claimed to know

"the answers to life."

I continued to be a twi follower for the next 12 years. That would be 1986... after VPee died and Geer popped the poop paper on everyone.

[skyrider]

I don't know why another poster has been called out, but maybe they have some insight?

Check post #10......on this thread.

This "other poster" [MRAP] is the main reason for the deviation to the "drunk story."

.

Edited February 17, 2016 by skyrider

[Bolshevik]

Check post #10......on this thread.

This "other poster" [MRAP] is the main reason for the deviation to the "drunk story."

.

I'm aware of all the posts on my own thread.

I come from a different viewpoint than yourself, so we likely won't highlight all the same items in a thread as important or relevant.

[Bolshevik]

Well, it was 42 years ago... but what I do remember is... the date I first met the guy who "got me in the word."

It was October 31, 1974. I was in the USAF overseas on a Portuguese island. A small AFB. I had been attending chapel services and fellowships.

This guy showed up and he had a confidence and claimed to have answers. The drunk story didn't really mean much to me (it was only the following summer

when we had enough people to "run a class").

The combination of being on an isolated island, away from familiar American culture, not so many peers to have much in common with, and a confident guy who claimed to know

"the answers to life."

I continued to be a twi follower for the next 12 years. That would be 1986... after VPee died and Geer popped the poop paper on everyone.

Thanks Rocky.

The emphasis on *HOW* I know was used in the 90s . . . I remember using it as a teenager . . . I know I was parroting the adults because I had no clue what to say when I was forced to go witnessing (ever find witnessing and prophecy similar in practice?) . . .

VPW may have used the Drunk story to reason away his own behavior and justify it somehow . . . but the HOW I think took on a life of it's own. People were talking about it . . . and clearly still are.

edited for grammar

Edited February 20, 2016 by Bolshevik