Why TWI Collapsed So Quickly

[skyrider]

Today, I'd like to examine twi's collapse in another way.

Rather than pointing out the obvious culprits [for the 10 thousandth time].....cult, commune,

lockstep, pyramid, authoritarian, cult of personality, scam, wierwille's death, etc.

What would have built long-lasting strength and faithfulness?

1) Each born-again individual is a wonder of God --- no cloning

2) The institution of marriage --- each marriage is to be strengthened and special

3) The institution of family ----- personal, private, boundaries, traditions

4) The institution of education -- and higher education opens doors of advancement

5) The institutions of community and neighbor -- help and uplift with compassion

6) The institution of wealth and privilege -- of whom much is given, much is required

7) Foundation of love & independence -- go forth in love, remember your roots

8) From generation to generation --- put your faith in the hands of God

Did wierwille really think that his pfal class would sustain and animate our attention and loyalty

for the next 60 years? How could he possibly been SO misguided? The only answer that seems to

make any sense of this is.....wierwille's narcissism.

Wierwille attempted to build twi on the pillars of individuals......ermal, harry, george jess,

dorothy, rhoda, etc. as if we would somehow be fixated on their "great works" a lifetime.

And then, wierwille's own son, Don, gets his Doctorate in Education.....but comes back to lead

everyone else into this commune way of living?? Huh?

Why clip the wings of the growing, maturing youth? Why the subversion of independent thought,

goals, and achievements in the real world? Heck, the "institution of church" doesn't even begin

to define its significance in such terms. Kids grow up, go to college, move away....so what?

Is there any wonder why it collapsed so quickly?

The institutions of society that have been built from generation to generation can withstand quite

a bit of stress before collapse, but twi had no such adequate pillars in place.

[HAPe4me]

Did wierwille really think that his pfal class would sustain and animate our attention and loyalty

for the next 60 years?

It flubbergusts me how often I see people on Facebook who after 45 years still are enamored with PFAL. The Lord may hope that sometime in the next 15 years they will see it for what it really was.

[waysider]

It flubbergusts me how often I see people on Facebook who after 45 years still are enamored with PFAL. The Lord may hope that sometime in the next 15 years they will see it for what it really was.

Yeah, it amazes me, too. Especially when I see them proclaiming the *greatness* of some particular thing or another, such as the law of believing, that has been debunked time and time and time again. As if proclaiming its greatness will somehow make it real.

So, it appears that, while the organization itself went swiftly swirling down the crapper, the ideas and dogmas that drove it keep coming back like a bad penny on payday.

Edited January 30, 2016 by waysider

[Steve Lortz]

I've been a fan of military history for just about all of my life, beginning with learning about Pop's experiences in WWII. I've read Keegan and Hanson.

I bring this up because the real key to winning a battle is not killing all the individual enemy soldiers, as if you were playing a first person shooter video game. The key is to destroy the enemy's army as a WHOLE thing by breaking up its social cohesion.

As long as an army's social cohesion is high, it will perform as a unit in ways that many of its individual members would not behave if left on their own.

When an army's social cohesion dies, the army evaporates into the wind.

The social cohesion of TWI was always very loose. It was based on the "leaves" on the tree being willing to put forth the extra effort to participate in twigs. Down at the twig level, the social cohesion was built on trust and the love of God. At the top, the cohesion was built on deception and manipulation.

When Martindale tried to tighten up the social cohesion with oaths of personal loyalty, extending the deception and manipulation throughout the Way tree, that was too much for most of the people who were putting forth the effort. The bond of trust (misplaced as it was) that had kept the group together was gone, and the group dissolved, except for a very small group that was motivated by fear rather than trust.

Love,

Steve

Edited January 30, 2016 by Steve Lortz

[skyrider]

It flubbergusts me how often I see people on Facebook who after 45 years still are enamored with PFAL.

Yeah....through the years, I've seen these pockets of staunch pfal-followers who isolate

themselves from twi's grid. I was told back then, that they were "the true believers."

Back in 1985, I met with a pfal grad, a rogue leader, who had separated "his group" from twi

and this was BEFORE the cgeer power-grab and splintering in 1986.

With green bumper stickers and pfal-shrines in their homes, it was truly fascinating to see

their fervent bunker mentality and wierwille adulation. In 1993, in Midwest America two other

groups had done the same. Like mini-pockets of "standing on the word".....they had stopped

attending twig fellowships YEARS AGO and ceased going to roa. YET, the bumper stickers stayed.

But.....life's opportunities, education, advancement, networking, society.....had NO PLACE

in the cult-commune mentality. Whether any of those kids advanced past high school, or

pfal-shrines......I don't know. It was just freaky to see them shut off from what most

consider the norms of society and acceptance.

So, I guess that I'm no longer puzzled by such isolation. We've seen the 1996 Branch Davidian

commune in Waco, TX. And, twi's version, ie Victor Barnard corps grad, erupt of late. It's

just sad to see the entrapment.

I suppose that little "standing on the word" mantra lives on in people's heads

and it helps to justify their yesteryears....and still speak of it on Facebook.

.

Edited January 30, 2016 by skyrider

[waysider]

We like to think that, unlike other cult-like, personality-centric movements and organizations that have come along, somehow The Way was different, special in its own way. It wasn't. It met a fate that is typical for such activity. We like to think we were special and unique because we were a part of it. We weren't. While we may very well be special and/or unique as individuals, it's not because of Way involvement. We're just like the people that got sucked into Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses and so on. The main difference is that they haven't fallen apart yet. It's only a matter of time.

[Steve Lortz]

We like to think that, unlike other cult-like, personality-centric movements and organizations that have come along, somehow The Way was different, special in its own way. It wasn't. It met a fate that is typical for such activity. We like to think we were special and unique because we were a part of it. We weren't. While we may very well be special and/or unique as individuals, it's not because of Way involvement. We're just like the people that got sucked into Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses and so on. The main difference is that they haven't fallen apart yet. It's only a matter of time.

For a while after leaving even the splinters, my wife and I hung out with a couple who had done the same thing with the World Wide Church of God... Armstrong's movement that published "The Plain Truth" magazine. You are right, waysider... TWI was not special, and our involvement with it did not make us special. I have been open with my professors about my former involvement with TWI, and apart from a little curiosity, they don't seem to care. And that's fine by me!

Love,

Steve

[TLC]

Today, I'd like to examine twi's collapse in another way.

Between legalism and liberalism, which do most here see as the main (or more prominent) reason for it's failure?

[Rocky]

Between legalism and liberalism, which do most here see as the main (or more prominent) reason for it's failure?

That's a pretty vague question. At minimum, wouldn't you need to define your terms?

[waysider]

Between legalism and liberalism, which do most here see as the main (or more prominent) reason for it's failure?

These two are my only options?

Edited January 31, 2016 by waysider

[Steve Lortz]

"...if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought..."

Gamaliel, Acts 5:38

Love,

Steve

[Raf]

Gamaliel, of course, was wrong. Plenty, PLENTY of movements that were merely "of men" did not come to naught. Islam. Mormonism. Scientology.

[Steve Lortz]

But TWI was and did! :-)

Love,

Steve

[Raf]

Correlation, not causation. ;)

[TLC]

These two are my only options?

Considering it was taught at TWI that it would be one or the other that would result in the downfall of the ministry, yes.

[waysider]

Considering it was taught at TWI that it would be one or the other that would result in the downfall of the ministry, yes.

You can add boredom and attrition to the mix. I'm sure there must be plenty of others.

[waysider]

But TWI was and did! :-)

Love,

Steve

Maybe you can chalk it up to evolution. (or de-evolution, if you prefer) Like when you go to see one of those old musical groups from your past and discover there hasn't been an original member in the group for the last 2 decades. The name is the same and that's about it. Everything else has changed, and not always in a good way.

The other side of the coin is that there are groups that have chucked the name but continue on with business as usual. S.O.W.E.R.S. comes to mind at the moment. And, who even knows how many other splinters are out there, waiting to garner your interest? What they lack, for the most part, is that central, driving personality that started it all.

Groups that are built on the personality of an individual leader tend to be short lived. Unless, of course, they fit the profile I described, in which case you might ask if they genuinely exist beyond the brand name.

Edited January 31, 2016 by waysider

[Twinky]

Maybe this?

“As for the prophets who lead my people astray,

they proclaim ‘peace’ if they have something to eat,

but prepare to wage war against anyone who refuses to feed them.

⁶ Therefore night will come over you, without visions, and darkness, without divination.

The sun will set for the prophets, and the day will go dark for them.

⁷ The seers will be ashamed and the diviners disgraced.

They will all cover their faces because there is no answer from God.”

(Micah 3:5-7, whole chapter is worth reading)

The sun's just set for them...permanently, one hopes. The teachers, the prophets, the ... not on the evangelists, pastors or apostles seeing as there were none.

[waysider]

Maybe this?

“As for the prophets who lead my people astray,

they proclaim ‘peace’ if they have something to eat,

but prepare to wage war against anyone who refuses to feed them.

⁶ Therefore night will come over you, without visions, and darkness, without divination.

The sun will set for the prophets, and the day will go dark for them.

⁷ The seers will be ashamed and the diviners disgraced.

They will all cover their faces because there is no answer from God.”

(Micah 3:5-7, whole chapter is worth reading)

The sun's just set for them...permanently, one hopes. The teachers, the prophets, the ... not on the evangelists, pastors or apostles seeing as there were none.

I'm not sure what you call them in U.K., but here in the States we call those kind of people *fair-weather friends*.

[Twinky]

Not so much FWFs, more leaders who don't care about their people and bilk them for all they can get.

Greedy church leaders.

Corrupt politicians and pundits too, maybe.

[skyrider]

Throughout these 143 pages of threads in this forum, the "rank and file" tell us

why twi collapsed so quickly.

Those who sit at their desks at corporate-twi have no clue what it's like on the field

to fight thru the constant challenges of paying the bills, getting kids fed/clothed and

to school, work 8-10 hr days.....AND THEN twig, witness, run class, meetings, events,

fill out forms, give 15%, etc. taking orders as subordinates doing volunteer work.

Wierwille's "vision" of all this was a Ponzi scheme.

While those on the field are fleeced of life and livelihood.....those at hq pontificate

and mandate a pseudo-christian warped lifestyle. Why does ALL monies go one direction?

Did they really do that in the book of acts? pppfffftt.

[Rocky]

Throughout these 143 pages of threads in this forum, the "rank and file" tell us

why twi collapsed so quickly.

Those who sit at their desks at corporate-twi have no clue what it's like on the field

to fight thru the constant challenges of paying the bills, getting kids fed/clothed and

to school, work 8-10 hr days.....AND THEN twig, witness, run class, meetings, events,

fill out forms, give 15%, etc. taking orders as subordinates doing volunteer work.

Wierwille's "vision" of all this was a Ponzi scheme.

While those on the field are fleeced of life and livelihood.....those at hq pontificate

and mandate a pseudo-christian warped lifestyle. Why does ALL monies go one direction?

Did they really do that in the book of acts? pppfffftt.

It was all a big con game. Wierwille was a masterful con artist.

If he had one iota of empathy, his organization would have been much different.

No, it was all about him. The Word of Wierwille is the Will of Wierwille.

And if you "went corpse" and didn't make your life into serving his purpose, what did that make you?

Not a good doulos, that's for sure. Yeah, part of the con was to teach indoctrinate the sheep that to be honored by God with rewards on judgment day , you had to be a slave.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Rocky

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Gamaliel, of course, was wrong. Plenty, PLENTY of movements that were merely "of men" did not come to naught. Islam. Mormonism. Scientology.

One might suggest that Gamaliel didn't put a time limit on his forecast (though the implication was that the demise of the organization would be soon). :)/>

George

Edited February 8, 2016 by GeorgeStGeorge

[T-Bone]

Interesting thread

I like Skyrider's post #1 - having a different take on their demise.

A few ideas come to mind why TWI went sort of kaput (now it's one big way corpse):

VP neglected to build upon the Rock (by putting Jesus' teachings into practice Matthew 7: 24-27) and instead built upon the sand of his skewed theology (or it may have been sand from Rockaway Beach – you don't know what's washed ashore any given day - - hey i love yah New York - - i kid, i kid!!! /> ).

If VP's vision was truly Word over the World he must have been shortsighted, hallucinating, or greedy (perhaps all three) in the strategy and execution of how to accomplish his vision; why would you charge a fee for a class and expect students to jump thru a bunch of hoops while attending it if your goal is to get the Word over the Word; seems like that's counterproductive – you're actually making it extremely difficult to get your product or service out there! I think the first century church did just fine getting the Word out to people without the aid of a green card, syllabus, and someone designated to run the tape or video machine.

And lastly (thinking about the list Skyrider posted and some gem I picked up in a management course), VP and company were NOT good managers; a good manager helps develop people – they don't put folks in a straitjacket so there's uniformity and crack the whip to up production ("run more PFAL classes!") – but a good manager helps draw out each person's unique capabilities with a view to honing their skills so they become more effective; it does not squelch individuality but rather respects it and even enhances it.

[Bolshevik]

. . .

[/size]

If VP's vision was truly Word over the World he must have been shortsighted, hallucinating, or greedy (perhaps all three) in the strategy and execution of how to accomplish his vision; why would you charge a fee for a class and expect students to jump thru a bunch of hoops while attending it if your goal is to get the Word over the Word; seems like that's counterproductive – you're actually making it extremely difficult to get your product or service out there! I think the first century church did just fine getting the Word out to people without the aid of a green card, syllabus, and someone designated to run the tape or video machine.

. . .

HA! Why indeed?

I can recall a number of times "outsiders" would ask a similar question, just an honest question about why the practices waste time and energy? (Do you have to be there EVERY Sunday/Tuesday etc? Can't someone take notes and share them with the rest of you later? Life comes up, doesn't your leadership understand that?)

I never had a good answer. Just smiled and nodded 'cause Gawd in his infinite wisdom had some reason and to love is to obey.