This 21st Century cyber-café gives everyone a voice.
And......anonymity is our "nametag."
I think that's pretty good actually, don't you guys? If everyone has a voice, can connect, and can discuss the part of our story that intertwined with TWI for the purpose of making sense of our individual story and growth and continuing our story and growth?
Of course I say this now being all conciliatory and tomorrow I'll be off on another rant somewhere probably. ;)
Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least PARTLY be attributed to this site and its predecessor. However, let's not exaggerate our influence. TWI was on a downward spiral long before we came along.
Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least PARTLY be attributed to this site and its predecessor. However, let's not exaggerate our influence. TWI was on a downward spiral long before we came along.
I can agree with that.
One thing I learned was there isn't much posted that wasn't well known back in the 1970s. The big questions are why people pretend not to know for so long, or admittedly say "It's not a big deal".
Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least PARTLY be attributed to this site and its predecessor. However, let's not exaggerate our influence. TWI was on a downward spiral long before we came along.
Raf....sure, that's fair.
But for those of us who've been around these threads since like 2000......
lots of folks have come to this forum and THANKED GSC because they felt
1)ashamed, 2)guilt-ridden, 3)confused, 4)etc. for leaving twi.
No, let's not exaggerate its influence.......BUT it seems fair to say
that hundreds upon hundreds have walked out of here MORE CONFIDENT,
MORE ASSURED, and MORE ADAMANT to not get sucked into a cult again.
It matters not to me who poo-poos the Greasespot Café website.....
some just haven't connected the dots of a cult's devastation, rape,
incest, and life-long turmoil. Read: The Subtle Power of Spiritual
One thing I learned was there isn't much posted that wasn't well known back in the 1970s. The big questions are why people pretend not to know for so long, or admittedly say "It's not a big deal".
It was probably far less known than you seem to think, even among corps and staff.
My personal belief: A lot of people knew a lot of things, but few people knew "everything." Not that anyone knows everything now, but we have MUCH more of the puzzle pieces in place than we did when we were in.
I knew, for example, that Dubofsky and Lynn were no longer associated with TWI when I got in/out in the late 1980s. But I didn't know why. I knew that there were rumors about weapons training, but I didn't know the truth about them. I knew there were allegations of plagiarism, but I had never seen it documented. I knew that Passing of a Patriarch was a big deal, but I had never read it in its proper historical context (even when I did read it after it was formally published in the early 1990s). And I'd never heard of the JAL or Schoenheit letters/documents.
And the sexual abuse never rose above the rumor stage where/when I was.
My personal belief: A lot of people knew a lot of things, but few people knew "everything." Not that anyone knows everything now, but we have MUCH more of the puzzle pieces in place than we did when we were in.
I knew, for example, that Dubofsky and Lynn were no longer associated with TWI when I got in/out in the late 1980s. But I didn't know why. I knew that there were rumors about weapons training, but I didn't know the truth about them. I knew there were allegations of plagiarism, but I had never seen it documented. I knew that Passing of a Patriarch was a big deal, but I had never read it in its proper historical context (even when I did read it after it was formally published in the early 1990s). And I'd never heard of the JAL or Schoenheit letters/documents.
And the sexual abuse never rose above the rumor stage where/when I was.
Evidently there was much more to be known (or had started to surfaced) in those years. Backing up 10 years left much more in the dark. If there were a lot of people that knew this or that, even the bits and pieces were smaller. And if love covers a multitude of sins, well... maybe more was just covered over.
I have numerous situations and people that require dealing with Wayfers or Way-Brained or even aggressive Anti-Wayfers. Sometimes things conflict with what I've read on GSC.
So I always have questions. This IS a good place to ask some of those questions.
Reading praise of GSC has helped nothing. And I have had to work around the dominant thinkings of the forums, because I come from a minority group. That takes some effort.
My personal belief: A lot of people knew a lot of things, but few people knew "everything." Not that anyone knows everything now, but we have MUCH more of the puzzle pieces in place than we did when we were in.
I knew, for example, that Dubofsky and Lynn were no longer associated with TWI when I got in/out in the late 1980s. But I didn't know why.
<snip>
THAT is one of the great things about GSC......all of the voices,
all of the posters that have added 3,000 vantage points to help
piece together the puzzle.
Women came forward to tell their stories.
Corps exposed the rampant indoctrination.
Staffers gave witness to hq shenanigans.
President Cabinet guy told lots of stuff.
When I learned that LCM was secretly in Toledo.....I posted it.
THAT started a whole series of twi's stealth practices.
There is a reason why WayGB keep their eyes on this place.
There are reasons why Rosalie gets these GS updates.
There is a reason why WayGB keep their eyes on this place.
There are reasons why Rosalie gets these GS updates.
And how they know that we know nothing fresh. Nobody coming forward to say how things really are now in TWI, no fresh revelations of Rosie's own sins of leadership. Perhaps they think they have plugged all the leaks. Or perhaps the remainder of Wayfers are so stupefied that they can't post to save their lives.
Perhaps they think they have plugged all the leaks. Or perhaps the remainder of Wayfers are so stupefied that they can't post to save their lives.
Well, I can't speculate as to degrees of control... but I think the research forensic psychologist Maria Konnikova set forth in The Confidence Game: why we fall for it... every time might provide some key insight.
A compelling investigation into the minds, motives, and methods of con artists—and the people who fall for their cons over and over again.
While cheats and swindlers may be a dime a dozen, true conmen—the Bernie Madoffs, the Jim Bakkers [and I will add the Victor Wierwilles and Craig Martindales, and their successors], the Lance Armstrongs—are elegant, outsized personalities, artists of persuasion and exploiters of trust. How do they do it? Why are they successful? And what keeps us falling for it, over and over again? These are the questions that journalist and psychologist Maria Konnikova tackles in her mesmerizing new book.
For some reason, the link to Amazon.com for The Confidence Game doesn't seem to want to take. But if you go to Amazon and search for the book, it's very insightful.
And how they know that we know nothing fresh. Nobody coming forward to say how things really are now in TWI, no fresh revelations of Rosie's own sins of leadership. Perhaps they think they have plugged all the leaks. Or perhaps the remainder of Wayfers are so stupefied that they can't post to save their lives.
Why is twi always in damage control? Why the desperate bunker mentality?
Spies, and lies, and bribes......oh my!
Gee.....it purports all the same DNA as the Pharisees.
They are the ONES with nothing fresh. Their lecture series of indoctrination,
...er, sunday teachings are so scripted, contrived and boring that anyone more than
30 miles away looks for any excuse to NOT attend another one of those.
They are the ONES who proclaim to have the answers to life and abundance.....and they struggle
to find even staffers to fill positions. Especially those low-level, polish floors, scrub the
toilets, food prep, and be excited to get the minimum wage (if that).
They are the ONES who mandate 15-20% of your income for lousy, tedious, condescending drivel
that has been pumped thru the system for 45 years. Screw that! It's a damn scam.
Spies, and surveillance, and monitoring.........is NOT in the Christian format.
Don't forget that a major reason we don't see new perspectives about recent activities is that we haven't allowed new members to sign up for quite some time. Anyone who JUST left would not be able to register unless they explored the forum enough to know how to do it (you do it by contacting me: check out Greasespot 101 forum for details or find me on Facebook: there's a link on every one of my posts).
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Allan
Here's something recent then...my bro-in-law, an 'innie' based in Hawaii, has been compiling a book on everything that is wrong with twi. He plans on presenting it to the board of trustees at some poi
Raf
Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least
waysider
There were things I was told about or saw that I assumed were isolated incidents. Later, I discovered said activities were widespread. The sexual escapades are a common example. Another was the exploi
Bolshevik
How was this? Did they call the cops?
I assume this is hyperbole. Otherwise it's a very sad statement, a myopic viewpoint even. Times change, new things SHOULD come up.
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skyrider
Like what?
Examples?
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chockfull
I think that's pretty good actually, don't you guys? If everyone has a voice, can connect, and can discuss the part of our story that intertwined with TWI for the purpose of making sense of our individual story and growth and continuing our story and growth?
Of course I say this now being all conciliatory and tomorrow I'll be off on another rant somewhere probably. ;)
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Bolshevik
I've sent you PMs about it before.
(or at least tried to)
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skyrider
Nope. Not one.
What "new things" or examples?
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Bolshevik
hmmm . . . how to deal with wayfers.
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skyrider
The Café gives everyone a voice.
1) Tell your life story
2) Go to friend-tracker to locate someone
3) Sharing of someone who has deceased
4) Questions, answers, books, dialogue
5) Never a part of twi, but dating someone who is
6) Why should you join or avoid twi
7) What was good in pfal
8) What was wrong in pfal
9) Things about WOW, Fellow-Laborers, Corps, Clergy
10) Personal incidents, observations, confrontations, etc.
11) Someone who ran into a post-twi prez lcm
12) Someone who lurks here and NEVER posts
13) WayGB who keep their eyes on this place
14) Those who like to connect the dots of twi's evil
15) Etc. etc. etc.
Whatever your reason for walking thru the GS doors, you've entered a unique place.
Many have tried to duplicate its prestige, but pressured out of existence for one
reason or another.
With 143 pages of thread in the By The Way forum alone,
you can see the vastness of subjects that have been discussed
thru the years. Many, many posters have come and gone....but
their words embed the wisdom of a multitude of counsellors.
Doors are always open.
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Bolshevik
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prestige
Seems like you're promoting GSC much like "The Class" was. "We may not have all the Truth, but we know where to find it"
BS meter is dinging. Just saying.
GSC can help some I'm sure. On the forums, certain groups of people are more certainly accepted than others.
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skyrider
You don't think GSC has been successful in exposing twi's underbelly?
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Bolshevik
Why would I think it has?
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Raf
Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least PARTLY be attributed to this site and its predecessor. However, let's not exaggerate our influence. TWI was on a downward spiral long before we came along.
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Bolshevik
I can agree with that.
One thing I learned was there isn't much posted that wasn't well known back in the 1970s. The big questions are why people pretend not to know for so long, or admittedly say "It's not a big deal".
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Raf
A lot of stuff was known, but not a lot was widely disseminated and very little was available in one place for handy dandy reference.
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skyrider
Raf....sure, that's fair.
But for those of us who've been around these threads since like 2000......
lots of folks have come to this forum and THANKED GSC because they felt
1)ashamed, 2)guilt-ridden, 3)confused, 4)etc. for leaving twi.
No, let's not exaggerate its influence.......BUT it seems fair to say
that hundreds upon hundreds have walked out of here MORE CONFIDENT,
MORE ASSURED, and MORE ADAMANT to not get sucked into a cult again.
It matters not to me who poo-poos the Greasespot Café website.....
some just haven't connected the dots of a cult's devastation, rape,
incest, and life-long turmoil. Read: The Subtle Power of Spiritual
Abuse.
Yeah....ABUSE. That's twi.
And, I will gladly stand against its evil.
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TLC
It was probably far less known than you seem to think, even among corps and staff.
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Raf
My personal belief: A lot of people knew a lot of things, but few people knew "everything." Not that anyone knows everything now, but we have MUCH more of the puzzle pieces in place than we did when we were in.
I knew, for example, that Dubofsky and Lynn were no longer associated with TWI when I got in/out in the late 1980s. But I didn't know why. I knew that there were rumors about weapons training, but I didn't know the truth about them. I knew there were allegations of plagiarism, but I had never seen it documented. I knew that Passing of a Patriarch was a big deal, but I had never read it in its proper historical context (even when I did read it after it was formally published in the early 1990s). And I'd never heard of the JAL or Schoenheit letters/documents.
And the sexual abuse never rose above the rumor stage where/when I was.
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Rocky
I've been here from the start. My understanding is that GSC isn't really about any groups of people being accepted (belonging) other than to validate
one's reasons for leaving TWI madness.
We're not a clique or even a fellowship. It's a place to speak your mind.
Those who rationalize and justify TWI dogmas and practices generally experience something other than validation.
Facebook, OTOH, is a place where people can share as a group of likeminded individuals in a community, by choice.
Do people sometimes have unrealistic expectations here at GSC? Perhaps.
What do those people do about their unrealistic expectations?
Other than self-justification, that is. We ALL self-justify.
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TLC
Evidently there was much more to be known (or had started to surfaced) in those years. Backing up 10 years left much more in the dark. If there were a lot of people that knew this or that, even the bits and pieces were smaller. And if love covers a multitude of sins, well... maybe more was just covered over.
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Bolshevik
There's a lot going on here.
I have numerous situations and people that require dealing with Wayfers or Way-Brained or even aggressive Anti-Wayfers. Sometimes things conflict with what I've read on GSC.
So I always have questions. This IS a good place to ask some of those questions.
Reading praise of GSC has helped nothing. And I have had to work around the dominant thinkings of the forums, because I come from a minority group. That takes some effort.
It is what it is.
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skyrider
THAT is one of the great things about GSC......all of the voices,
all of the posters that have added 3,000 vantage points to help
piece together the puzzle.
Women came forward to tell their stories.
Corps exposed the rampant indoctrination.
Staffers gave witness to hq shenanigans.
President Cabinet guy told lots of stuff.
When I learned that LCM was secretly in Toledo.....I posted it.
THAT started a whole series of twi's stealth practices.
There is a reason why WayGB keep their eyes on this place.
There are reasons why Rosalie gets these GS updates.
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Twinky
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Rocky
Well, I can't speculate as to degrees of control... but I think the research forensic psychologist Maria Konnikova set forth in The Confidence Game: why we fall for it... every time might provide some key insight.
A compelling investigation into the minds, motives, and methods of con artists—and the people who fall for their cons over and over again.
While cheats and swindlers may be a dime a dozen, true conmen—the Bernie Madoffs, the Jim Bakkers [and I will add the Victor Wierwilles and Craig Martindales, and their successors], the Lance Armstrongs—are elegant, outsized personalities, artists of persuasion and exploiters of trust. How do they do it? Why are they successful? And what keeps us falling for it, over and over again? These are the questions that journalist and psychologist Maria Konnikova tackles in her mesmerizing new book.
For some reason, the link to Amazon.com for The Confidence Game doesn't seem to want to take. But if you go to Amazon and search for the book, it's very insightful.
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skyrider
Why is twi always in damage control? Why the desperate bunker mentality?
Spies, and lies, and bribes......oh my!
Gee.....it purports all the same DNA as the Pharisees.
They are the ONES with nothing fresh. Their lecture series of indoctrination,
...er, sunday teachings are so scripted, contrived and boring that anyone more than
30 miles away looks for any excuse to NOT attend another one of those.
They are the ONES who proclaim to have the answers to life and abundance.....and they struggle
to find even staffers to fill positions. Especially those low-level, polish floors, scrub the
toilets, food prep, and be excited to get the minimum wage (if that).
They are the ONES who mandate 15-20% of your income for lousy, tedious, condescending drivel
that has been pumped thru the system for 45 years. Screw that! It's a damn scam.
Spies, and surveillance, and monitoring.........is NOT in the Christian format.
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Raf
Don't forget that a major reason we don't see new perspectives about recent activities is that we haven't allowed new members to sign up for quite some time. Anyone who JUST left would not be able to register unless they explored the forum enough to know how to do it (you do it by contacting me: check out Greasespot 101 forum for details or find me on Facebook: there's a link on every one of my posts).
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