Ah, the original sin, taught rather haphazardly at that.
I doubt I'll be much troubled with sorrow in bringing forth children, but I suppose that's not what you meant.
As far as what else transpired, we were all enslaved to our senses, the end of which is death.
Knowing or seeing anything beyond that is another matter, not appropriate for this thread.
No, that's not it. What I'm referring to is the teaching on the 5 steps the serpent used to deceive Eve. She gave conscious thought to what he was presenting. We're not to be like Eve. We are to stand firmly on what we've been taught and never budge. Don't entertain thoughts that contradict Way theology. It led to the downfall of Eve and it will lead to yours too if you allow your mind to explore other possibilities.
Objection to the "more" valuable aside (seriously... did you have to pile anything higher or deeper on that?) . . .
Yes.
I started the thread. If someone has "heard it all" and wants the thread trashed without giving any valuable input, I guess it's their right. I'll just start another.
Used to be able to block certain posts so as to focus more appropriate posts. One person's trash is another's treasure.
I started the thread. If someone has "heard it all" and wants the thread trashed without giving any valuable input, I guess it's their right. I'll just start another.
Used to be able to block certain posts so as to focus more appropriate posts. One person's trash is another's treasure.
It's doubtful anyone has "heard it all," so no need to pin that baloney on anybody.
Furthermore, I voiced my opinion already as to why I thought TWI isn't as big as it was in the 70's when I first posted here.
But, it was probably easy to miss with all the excitement over fresh meat showing up at the table.
Here 'tis, then I'll step away (as it, or something I said early on, seemed to light a fire the last time):
The point was that great hunger for truth doesn't necessarily dull one's intelligence, sensibility, or ability to reason (any of which might make one more gullible.) Perhaps the real issue is whether or not one believes that God exists, and that He both can and will answer prayers. Do you think there were there more young people that believed that way back then? If so, is that what some are equating to being "unusually gullible"?
I'm trying to back up a bit TLC, after all the noise. Forgive me if I re-hash something.
The point was that great hunger for truth doesn't necessarily dull one's intelligence, sensibility, or ability to reason (any of which might make one more gullible.) Perhaps the real issue is whether or not one believes that God exists, and that He both can and will answer prayers. Do you think there were there more young people that believed that way back then? If so, is that what some are equating to being "unusually gullible"?
It sounds like you're saying "A lack of believing" is a major reason, or the reason, for the shrinking Way International?
(Here I want to know if I understand you correctly)
It sounds like you're saying "A lack of believing" is a major reason, or the reason, for the shrinking Way International?
(Here I want to know if I understand you correctly)
Actually, at the time I wrote that, I was probably thinking more about why it might have grown the way in did in the 70's. I recall it being a time of turmoil, of questioning the status quo and the materialism of the day. Viet Nam was a disaster. Alternatives were expanding. I can't put my finger on it, really. But, speaking for myself, I wanted and needed answers from God that I couldn't find in the church (or much of anywhere else.) It was, for lack of any better or more appropriate description, a spiritual hunger that began to steer my course. So, I suppose I'm more inclined to think there is significantly less spiritual hunger today (which I would probably attribute to a more affluent, less "needy" society, as well as significantly more "tangible" answers being propounded and available on the Internet.) Sure, it's not the only reason. Maybe not even the major one. But I think it's a significant one.
Actually, at the time I wrote that, I was probably thinking more about why it might have grown the way in did in the 70's. I recall it being a time of turmoil, of questioning the status quo and the materialism of the day. Viet Nam was a disaster. Alternatives were expanding. I can't put my finger on it, really. But, speaking for myself, I wanted and needed answers from God that I couldn't find in the church (or much of anywhere else.) It was, for lack of any better or more appropriate description, a spiritual hunger that began to steer my course. So, I suppose I'm more inclined to think there is significantly less spiritual hunger today (which I would probably attribute to a more affluent, less "needy" society, as well as significantly more "tangible" answers being propounded and available on the Internet.) Sure, it's not the only reason. Maybe not even the major one. But I think it's a significant one.
Fight Club. Totally.
Edited to add: I'm not sure how "less spiritual hunger" is gauged. Maybe that goes back to the definition of spiritual, did you mean the same thing as it was used in TWI?
Edited to add: I'm not sure how "less spiritual hunger" is gauged. Maybe that goes back to the definition of spiritual, did you mean the same thing as it was used in TWI?
"I wanted and needed answers from God"
I don't know how to measure that either.
I knew/believed He was real, but invisible.
Enter the invisible side of that equation, and you'll arrive at my usage and meaning of the word "spiritual."
his Bachelor's in Psychology wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.
After getting his degree,
he saw someone have some sort of psychiatric episode,
and the best description he could give was they "went gooney-bird."
He also had no suggestions for what to do for the person other than
pretend they need no assistance, which is what vpw did, while sending
them home on a Greyhound bus. A WEEK LATER, they turned up home.
(God only knows what happened during that week. The person was in need
of a medical diagnosis and some treatment before attempting any trip,
let alone a trip ALONE.) I'm impressed they turned up ALIVE at home.
WW, you brought up a very good point; why didn't TWI take the person to an ER?? I am not a Medical Professional, but it seemed to me, the person might be having some serious medical, or mental problems. I would have phoned 911, or taken him to an ER. But TWI, didn't do that; instead they put him on a bus by himself. I hope that man sued TWI after he got better; I would have.
WW, you brought up a very good point; why didn't TWI take the person to an ER?? I am not a Medical Professional, but it seemed to me, the person might be having some serious medical, or mental problems. I would have phoned 911, or taken him to an ER. But TWI, didn't do that; instead they put him on a bus by himself. I hope that man sued TWI after he got better; I would have.
Allow me to answer that in the most polite way I can think of... Doing that would not be consistent with The Way's theological doctrine.
Absolutely correct waysider...whilst in-residence in family corps a new family came in ( after selling all and uprooting ) only to THEN be told because their young son had diabetes they had to repack and leave campus...heartless, soul-less, hypocritical fcukers
Allow me to answer that in the most polite way I can think of... Doing that would not be consistent with The Way's theological doctrine.
Way, I understand about Way TD, but sometimes, you have to get immediate medical help for your people. I would have phoned 911, and then prayed for the person. The guy obviously needed help, and no one thought to get help for him, or even pray for him??!! Lord, what a bunch of Azzholes, they were!! I am so happy that I got out when I did! Also, I am so happy that I never went Corps!!!
Way, I understand about Way TD, but sometimes, you have to get immediate medical help for your people. I would have phoned 911, and then prayed for the person. The guy obviously needed help, and no one thought to get help for him, or even pray for him??!! Lord, what a bunch of Azzholes, they were!! I am so happy that I got out when I did! Also, I am so happy that I never went Corps!!!
It all goes back to the non-existent *law of believing*. You were supposed to *believe* for things to get better. If they didn't, it was your own fault. Then, to add insult to injury, you were considered a spiritual weakling. Many people suffered trying to believe their way to health. Some even died. I personally knew one who did. They criticized him, in death, for not being strong enough to survive. It's insidious.
It all goes back to the non-existent *law of believing*. You were supposed to *believe* for things to get better. If they didn't, it was your own fault. Then, to add insult to injury, you were considered a spiritual weakling. Many people suffered trying to believe their way to health. Some even died. I personally knew one who did. They criticized him, in death, for not being strong enough to survive. It's insidious.
Absolutely correct waysider...whilst in-residence in family corps a new family came in ( after selling all and uprooting ) only to THEN be told because their young son had diabetes they had to repack and leave campus...heartless, soul-less, hypocritical fcukers
Allan, why wasn't the family told all of this before they joined the FC??!! You are so right; TWI was a bunch of F-ers!
It all goes back to the non-existent *law of believing*. You were supposed to *believe* for things to get better. If they didn't, it was your own fault. Then, to add insult to injury, you were considered a spiritual weakling. Many people suffered trying to believe their way to health. Some even died. I personally knew one who did. They criticized him, in death, for not being strong enough to survive. It's insidious.
Way, insidious perhaps. To me, it was just wrong! I had Breast Cancer 13 years ago, and the DC Veterans' Hospital took excellent care of me; the people who helped me through my Cancer were wonderful to me!!! God bless all of them! Sometimes people get sick; it happens all the time. I cried about it, and then I took action! I did exactly what my Doctors told me to do, and when they told me to do it. And I worked full-time, while I was recuperating. That was 13 years ago; I am so thankful to be alive. I am sure many people in TWI would mocked me, or told me a lot of S--t of how I was a weak believer! F-them!! I did what I had to do, and God has blessed me with several more years if life! Personally, I am not interested in what TWI says about anything; I know God expects us to use Common Sense about out health!
very thankful for your life GVC ! I knew another guy in way of New Zealand who got cancer. Leaderships solution ? Move out of home, in with believers and get out there and witness witness witness, even in the midst of a wet, cold winter. Of course he got sicker sicker sicker ! In the end he thought "screw this you idiots". So he moved back home as he figured better to die in the comfort of his bed lol....He got healed AFTER he was marked & avoided
very thankful for your life GVC ! I knew another guy in way of New Zealand who got cancer. Leaderships solution ? Move out of home, in with believers and get out there and witness witness witness, even in the midst of a wet, cold winter. Of course he got sicker sicker sicker ! In the end he thought "screw this you idiots". So he moved back home as he figured better to die in the comfort of his bed lol....He got healed AFTER he was marked & avoided
Allan, why the hell didn't he go to a Dr., and get his Cancer taken care of??!! I have never been to NZ, but I bet they have some very good Doctors there! What ever happened to the idea if you are sick, get it taken care of??!! I bet if the people in TWI got Cancer, their azzes would go to the Doctors!! So, why didn't they tell their people to go, and have it taken care of??!! I think a lot of people in TWI lacked Common Sense!! I think your friend was smart to leave, and get healed! I did, and I am thankful for it!!
Wierwille taught, in the Advanced Class, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. So guess what his death certificate lists as the cause of death. Hint: It's not chicken pox.
Wierwille taught, in the Advanced Class, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. So guess what his death certificate lists as the cause of death. Hint: It's not chicken pox.
Way, I think VPW is the poster boy of DS; if anyone ever had them, he did!!
This is the thing you see, when it comes to leadership, they live by differn't rules of believing. My wife looked after our country co-ords young daughter once whilst they were overseas. She had been asked by the wife of the country co-ord before they left to take her to their doctor the following day for a 'check up'. When my wife took her in, the nurses laughed and commented how her mom brought her in nearly every other day if the child so much as sneezed !!! Oh the fear in the heart of that mother lol...wish I could quote it in the original
If you're talking about F, Allan, she wasn't so stupid. I remember cutting my toe on a rock whilst swimming in the sea; it went septic and horrible. I was "believing for healing" and refused to do anything practical except soak it in salt water. F took one look at me hobbling around and took me to a doctor, paid for it herself as I recall. Told me off in no uncertain terms.
Can't speak for her childcare (I was in rez at the time) but I believe she would be a careful mum who, as many new mums, was anxious for her babe's health. I'm sure she prayed for her, as well as taking action.
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Twinky
How ridiculous, Mrs A has a wealth of knowledge. And that's appropriate to share. It's part of the Body of Christ working together, every part contributing what it can. Mrs A, having raised all you
waysider
It all goes back to the non-existent *law of believing*. You were supposed to *believe* for things to get better. If they didn't, it was your own fault. Then, to add insult to injury, you were consid
Rocky
Alas and alak, we get to the roots of the thing. Btw, this might also be the roots/foundation of the concept of gaslighting as we've experienced it in twi. It is inherently human to be curious. To e
MRAP
Let's lighten up a bit, since this thread has digressed and turned into a farce, that's Scottish for an f'n foot.
You say the word for keester (foot) and it becomes (foot).
You say the word for feces (dang) and it becomes (dang).
Go ahead TLC, we are both new here, spell out a cuss word and see what the filter does.
Oh, "WTF" is not recognized (yet) by the filter.
Hey, let's try penis, betcha it becomes Richard.
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Rocky
Yep... that can be fun. :)
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waysider
No, that's not it. What I'm referring to is the teaching on the 5 steps the serpent used to deceive Eve. She gave conscious thought to what he was presenting. We're not to be like Eve. We are to stand firmly on what we've been taught and never budge. Don't entertain thoughts that contradict Way theology. It led to the downfall of Eve and it will lead to yours too if you allow your mind to explore other possibilities.
Get the picture?
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Bolshevik
Yes.
I started the thread. If someone has "heard it all" and wants the thread trashed without giving any valuable input, I guess it's their right. I'll just start another.
Used to be able to block certain posts so as to focus more appropriate posts. One person's trash is another's treasure.
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TLC
It's doubtful anyone has "heard it all," so no need to pin that baloney on anybody.
Furthermore, I voiced my opinion already as to why I thought TWI isn't as big as it was in the 70's when I first posted here.
But, it was probably easy to miss with all the excitement over fresh meat showing up at the table.
Here 'tis, then I'll step away (as it, or something I said early on, seemed to light a fire the last time):
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Bolshevik
I'm trying to back up a bit TLC, after all the noise. Forgive me if I re-hash something.
It sounds like you're saying "A lack of believing" is a major reason, or the reason, for the shrinking Way International?
(Here I want to know if I understand you correctly)
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chockfull
TWI is not alone
Jim Bakker - Not as big as 70s
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TLC
Actually, at the time I wrote that, I was probably thinking more about why it might have grown the way in did in the 70's. I recall it being a time of turmoil, of questioning the status quo and the materialism of the day. Viet Nam was a disaster. Alternatives were expanding. I can't put my finger on it, really. But, speaking for myself, I wanted and needed answers from God that I couldn't find in the church (or much of anywhere else.) It was, for lack of any better or more appropriate description, a spiritual hunger that began to steer my course. So, I suppose I'm more inclined to think there is significantly less spiritual hunger today (which I would probably attribute to a more affluent, less "needy" society, as well as significantly more "tangible" answers being propounded and available on the Internet.) Sure, it's not the only reason. Maybe not even the major one. But I think it's a significant one.
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Bolshevik
Fight Club. Totally.
Edited to add: I'm not sure how "less spiritual hunger" is gauged. Maybe that goes back to the definition of spiritual, did you mean the same thing as it was used in TWI?
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TLC
"I wanted and needed answers from God"
I don't know how to measure that either.
I knew/believed He was real, but invisible.
Enter the invisible side of that equation, and you'll arrive at my usage and meaning of the word "spiritual."
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, you brought up a very good point; why didn't TWI take the person to an ER?? I am not a Medical Professional, but it seemed to me, the person might be having some serious medical, or mental problems. I would have phoned 911, or taken him to an ER. But TWI, didn't do that; instead they put him on a bus by himself. I hope that man sued TWI after he got better; I would have.
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waysider
Allow me to answer that in the most polite way I can think of... Doing that would not be consistent with The Way's theological doctrine.
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Allan
Absolutely correct waysider...whilst in-residence in family corps a new family came in ( after selling all and uprooting ) only to THEN be told because their young son had diabetes they had to repack and leave campus...heartless, soul-less, hypocritical fcukers
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, I understand about Way TD, but sometimes, you have to get immediate medical help for your people. I would have phoned 911, and then prayed for the person. The guy obviously needed help, and no one thought to get help for him, or even pray for him??!! Lord, what a bunch of Azzholes, they were!! I am so happy that I got out when I did! Also, I am so happy that I never went Corps!!!
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waysider
It all goes back to the non-existent *law of believing*. You were supposed to *believe* for things to get better. If they didn't, it was your own fault. Then, to add insult to injury, you were considered a spiritual weakling. Many people suffered trying to believe their way to health. Some even died. I personally knew one who did. They criticized him, in death, for not being strong enough to survive. It's insidious.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Thanks! Now I understand!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Allan, why wasn't the family told all of this before they joined the FC??!! You are so right; TWI was a bunch of F-ers!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, insidious perhaps. To me, it was just wrong! I had Breast Cancer 13 years ago, and the DC Veterans' Hospital took excellent care of me; the people who helped me through my Cancer were wonderful to me!!! God bless all of them! Sometimes people get sick; it happens all the time. I cried about it, and then I took action! I did exactly what my Doctors told me to do, and when they told me to do it. And I worked full-time, while I was recuperating. That was 13 years ago; I am so thankful to be alive. I am sure many people in TWI would mocked me, or told me a lot of S--t of how I was a weak believer! F-them!! I did what I had to do, and God has blessed me with several more years if life! Personally, I am not interested in what TWI says about anything; I know God expects us to use Common Sense about out health!
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Allan
very thankful for your life GVC ! I knew another guy in way of New Zealand who got cancer. Leaderships solution ? Move out of home, in with believers and get out there and witness witness witness, even in the midst of a wet, cold winter. Of course he got sicker sicker sicker ! In the end he thought "screw this you idiots". So he moved back home as he figured better to die in the comfort of his bed lol....He got healed AFTER he was marked & avoided
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Grace Valerie Claire
Allan, why the hell didn't he go to a Dr., and get his Cancer taken care of??!! I have never been to NZ, but I bet they have some very good Doctors there! What ever happened to the idea if you are sick, get it taken care of??!! I bet if the people in TWI got Cancer, their azzes would go to the Doctors!! So, why didn't they tell their people to go, and have it taken care of??!! I think a lot of people in TWI lacked Common Sense!! I think your friend was smart to leave, and get healed! I did, and I am thankful for it!!
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waysider
Wierwille taught, in the Advanced Class, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. So guess what his death certificate lists as the cause of death. Hint: It's not chicken pox.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, I think VPW is the poster boy of DS; if anyone ever had them, he did!!
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Allan
This is the thing you see, when it comes to leadership, they live by differn't rules of believing. My wife looked after our country co-ords young daughter once whilst they were overseas. She had been asked by the wife of the country co-ord before they left to take her to their doctor the following day for a 'check up'. When my wife took her in, the nurses laughed and commented how her mom brought her in nearly every other day if the child so much as sneezed !!! Oh the fear in the heart of that mother lol...wish I could quote it in the original
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Twinky
If you're talking about F, Allan, she wasn't so stupid. I remember cutting my toe on a rock whilst swimming in the sea; it went septic and horrible. I was "believing for healing" and refused to do anything practical except soak it in salt water. F took one look at me hobbling around and took me to a doctor, paid for it herself as I recall. Told me off in no uncertain terms.
Can't speak for her childcare (I was in rez at the time) but I believe she would be a careful mum who, as many new mums, was anxious for her babe's health. I'm sure she prayed for her, as well as taking action.
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