Anyone ever hear a Wayfer analysis of the Jonestown mass suicide. Curious what the take would be.
The 9th and 7th corpses were in residence at the time. I don't remember VPee's words about it, but I distinctly remember Loy ranting on about it and recognizing right away that we would be labeled a cult because of Jim Jones.
Of course, Loy vehemently denied we had any cultic characteristics...
Docvic talked about Jonestown at AC 79. If I recollect correct, he made veiled references about it being "more than what the media is telling us" (or something along those lines with guns being involved as well as the kool-aid). He insinuated that he was able to find this out when the rest of the world was left in the dark. How ?? - - I don't know. Maybe he got Word of Knowledge, and the Word of Wisdom following was to share that tidbit with all of us there. After all - - it WAS the Advanced Class 1979. Don't quote me on any of this here, because this all took place 36 years ago and my memory isn't the best. But when shortfuse mentioned this topic - - these thoughts immediately came to mind (Hmmmm - - perhaps "First thought???)
What do you get when you do a "search" on the name "Jim Jones"?
You get posts where his name was mentioned.
Here are some:
===========================
"Tape # 40 relates how, according to Beter, the 900 plus dead bodies in Guyana were not of the mass homicide/suicide of members of The People's Temple at Jonestown, but rather were dead Russian soldiers killed by US military covert operations."
Was he right?
"My ex boyfriend was in the military group that did the clean up of Jonestown. To this day he can't think back to that time without the ensuing nightmares coming again. I point blank asked him one day who all died there, due to the crap VP wanted us to believe and the ex said they were all members of Jim Jones cult."
"Of course, according to VP, those people were murdered and didn't commit suicide and claimed our government had a hand in it and said that those people in that cult were being treated by our government as if they were sent to Guyanna on a mission since our government went in to get the bodies. He said our government only did that, retrieved bodies like that when people were sent on a mission."
"VeePee was caught up in the idea of conspiracy...I only recently threw away my "cuurent Psychological Hoax" this was the tape that vpw said Jim Jones was a CIA experiment. "
In general terms, what I remember is how we scrambled to come up with believable rationalizations we could give to outsiders that would clarify why we were not like the people at Jonestown. We downplayed any similarities.
This is very similar to the fact, in Twig fellowships back to the 80s and 90s, groups of people would openly talk about how "we are the BEST cult out there"
Ask the same people years later . . . they'll deny ever knowing the The Way is labeled as a cult by some.
To know that you know that you don't know you know, . . . you know?
We were advised that we would be labeled a cult because of our belief in the "Jesus Christ Is Not God" doctrine, completely ignoring the reality there are cults that aren't even Christian, or otherwise religion oriented in any way. It wasn't our Biblical beliefs that defined us as a cult, it was our crazy lifestyle and propensity for commune-like living arrangements.
When Jonestown took place, I read the Time magazine reports to the corpse at lunch. Vic's initial comments were along the line of mass possession. His first immediate response was "same spirits as that damn Massada".
Later, he refined it to an overall conspiracy theory of never ending twists and turns along the lines that dmiller was referring to. The ultimate disgrace of vic's revelation culminated at the foot of the Massada during the Bible Lands tour of 1985. Da forehead had about 12-15 of the tour busses take an unplanned trip to Massada late in the afternoon one day. Here he took off on the whole mass Debbil spurt possession of the Essenes at Massada. He became so rude, obnoxious and insulting with his rant that all the Israeli tour guides and busdrivers walked off on the spot stranding us and the 15 busses at the side of the road with the Massada looming overhead. It took about $8000 in "tips" to get us back to the King David Hotel. During that despicable rant, Okie knucklehead compared the events at Massada with Jonestown. Another diplomatic victory for King Okie the Doofus. Eventually, da forehead was getting "revelation" about the Pope and his new aircraft carrier! Then Y2K, one threatened invasion and takeover a year or so, and the building of the walls of Zion around the Prevailing Woid in Da Household yada yada yada was well under way to the glory of no one and nothing. Vic's greatest "revelations" were the most glaringly paranoid delusions that eventually provided more nails in twit's coffins. They're still the Zombie Apocolypse of Christianity though and doing a great job on the WOP class or whatever. More great heavy revvy from the mountain tops of hell........LOL!
BTW.....it was at AC '79 when vic made the first loud push of the Bircher books, Myth of The 6 Million, The Hoax if the 20th Century, Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe and the other anti-Semitic hatespeech which landed twit on the AFL's Anti-Semitic Hategroup watch list in 1982. So, the correlation with Vic's take on Jonestown and his John Birch Society "understanding" and "revelation"......which by the way, were introduced to vic by a John S. Lynn, jallymog's father and political thinker of twit's inner sanctum...... And one of its largest abundant sharers.
We were advised that we would be labeled a cult because of our belief in the "Jesus Christ Is Not God" doctrine, completely ignoring the reality there are cults that aren't even Christian, or otherwise religion oriented in any way. It wasn't our Biblical beliefs that defined us as a cult, it was our crazy lifestyle and propensity for commune-like living arrangements.
I think both usages of the word were appropriate. But you are right, the first usage was used to dismiss the second.
What do you get when you do a "search" on the name "Jim Jones"?
You get posts where his name was mentioned.
Thanks for Word Wolf for the LMGTFY reply. Sorry for the bad forum etiquette, I certainly could have searched first. Have just been throwing out some ideas lately as they hit my mind.
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Rocky
The 9th and 7th corpses were in residence at the time. I don't remember VPee's words about it, but I distinctly remember Loy ranting on about it and recognizing right away that we would be labeled a cult because of Jim Jones.
Of course, Loy vehemently denied we had any cultic characteristics...
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dmiller
Docvic talked about Jonestown at AC 79. If I recollect correct, he made veiled references about it being "more than what the media is telling us" (or something along those lines with guns being involved as well as the kool-aid). He insinuated that he was able to find this out when the rest of the world was left in the dark. How ?? - - I don't know. Maybe he got Word of Knowledge, and the Word of Wisdom following was to share that tidbit with all of us there. After all - - it WAS the Advanced Class 1979. Don't quote me on any of this here, because this all took place 36 years ago and my memory isn't the best. But when shortfuse mentioned this topic - - these thoughts immediately came to mind (Hmmmm - - perhaps "First thought???)
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WordWolf
What do you get when you do a "search" on the name "Jim Jones"?
You get posts where his name was mentioned.
Here are some:
===========================
"Tape # 40 relates how, according to Beter, the 900 plus dead bodies in Guyana were not of the mass homicide/suicide of members of The People's Temple at Jonestown, but rather were dead Russian soldiers killed by US military covert operations."
Was he right?
"My ex boyfriend was in the military group that did the clean up of Jonestown. To this day he can't think back to that time without the ensuing nightmares coming again. I point blank asked him one day who all died there, due to the crap VP wanted us to believe and the ex said they were all members of Jim Jones cult."
"Of course, according to VP, those people were murdered and didn't commit suicide and claimed our government had a hand in it and said that those people in that cult were being treated by our government as if they were sent to Guyanna on a mission since our government went in to get the bodies. He said our government only did that, retrieved bodies like that when people were sent on a mission."
"VeePee was caught up in the idea of conspiracy...I only recently threw away my "cuurent Psychological Hoax" this was the tape that vpw said Jim Jones was a CIA experiment. "
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waysider
In general terms, what I remember is how we scrambled to come up with believable rationalizations we could give to outsiders that would clarify why we were not like the people at Jonestown. We downplayed any similarities.
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Bolshevik
This is very similar to the fact, in Twig fellowships back to the 80s and 90s, groups of people would openly talk about how "we are the BEST cult out there"
Ask the same people years later . . . they'll deny ever knowing the The Way is labeled as a cult by some.
To know that you know that you don't know you know, . . . you know?
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Bolshevik
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waysider
We were advised that we would be labeled a cult because of our belief in the "Jesus Christ Is Not God" doctrine, completely ignoring the reality there are cults that aren't even Christian, or otherwise religion oriented in any way. It wasn't our Biblical beliefs that defined us as a cult, it was our crazy lifestyle and propensity for commune-like living arrangements.
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DontWorryBeHappy
When Jonestown took place, I read the Time magazine reports to the corpse at lunch. Vic's initial comments were along the line of mass possession. His first immediate response was "same spirits as that damn Massada".
Later, he refined it to an overall conspiracy theory of never ending twists and turns along the lines that dmiller was referring to. The ultimate disgrace of vic's revelation culminated at the foot of the Massada during the Bible Lands tour of 1985. Da forehead had about 12-15 of the tour busses take an unplanned trip to Massada late in the afternoon one day. Here he took off on the whole mass Debbil spurt possession of the Essenes at Massada. He became so rude, obnoxious and insulting with his rant that all the Israeli tour guides and busdrivers walked off on the spot stranding us and the 15 busses at the side of the road with the Massada looming overhead. It took about $8000 in "tips" to get us back to the King David Hotel. During that despicable rant, Okie knucklehead compared the events at Massada with Jonestown. Another diplomatic victory for King Okie the Doofus. Eventually, da forehead was getting "revelation" about the Pope and his new aircraft carrier! Then Y2K, one threatened invasion and takeover a year or so, and the building of the walls of Zion around the Prevailing Woid in Da Household yada yada yada was well under way to the glory of no one and nothing. Vic's greatest "revelations" were the most glaringly paranoid delusions that eventually provided more nails in twit's coffins. They're still the Zombie Apocolypse of Christianity though and doing a great job on the WOP class or whatever. More great heavy revvy from the mountain tops of hell........LOL!
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DontWorryBeHappy
BTW.....it was at AC '79 when vic made the first loud push of the Bircher books, Myth of The 6 Million, The Hoax if the 20th Century, Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe and the other anti-Semitic hatespeech which landed twit on the AFL's Anti-Semitic Hategroup watch list in 1982. So, the correlation with Vic's take on Jonestown and his John Birch Society "understanding" and "revelation"......which by the way, were introduced to vic by a John S. Lynn, jallymog's father and political thinker of twit's inner sanctum...... And one of its largest abundant sharers.
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shortfuse
I think both usages of the word were appropriate. But you are right, the first usage was used to dismiss the second.
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shortfuse
Thanks for Word Wolf for the LMGTFY reply. Sorry for the bad forum etiquette, I certainly could have searched first. Have just been throwing out some ideas lately as they hit my mind.
Thanks for the references. They help.
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