Sometime in the 80s if not sooner, the idea of REREADING the twi books rather than actually doing your own research had made progress among leadership, About 1990, AFTER LEAVING,. a local leader was nervous about the idea of locals actually doing their own research and teaching it. He said it would be better to go over the collaterals.
In the 1990s, lcm began saying the word "research" meant to "search again", that is, to keep covering the same ground ad infinitum the collaterals covered.
Sometime in the 80s if not sooner, the idea of REREADING the twi books rather than actually doing your own research had made progress among leadership, About 1990, AFTER LEAVING,. a local leader was nervous about the idea of locals actually doing their own research and teaching it. He said it would be better to go over the collaterals.
In the 1990s, lcm began saying the word "research" meant to "search again", that is, to keep covering the same ground ad infinitum the collaterals covered.
Of course they didn't want anyone doing their own research. Your own research might lead to the realization that PLAF is riddled with errors and Saint Vic is a fraud.
One possible reason TWI never taught proper budgetting: Why would they want to deprive themselves of more ABS?
It's hard to convince people to live at need when you've told them to budget 15% to ABS.
Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.
Sometime in the 80s if not sooner, the idea of REREADING the twi books rather than actually doing your own research had made progress among leadership, About 1990, AFTER LEAVING,. a local leader was nervous about the idea of locals actually doing their own research and teaching it. He said it would be better to go over the collaterals.
In the 1990s, lcm began saying the word "research" meant to "search again", that is, to keep covering the same ground ad infinitum the collaterals covered.
That concept is so embedded into the directors thinking that the colatterals (and many other publications, classes) are considered proven ministry research and are above reproach. Thus, the biblical student is still directed to keep researching whats been taught, but not to bring up any errors because 75 years of biblical research is above reproach.
Kinda like the accumulated wisdom line john rupp fed me when referring to decisions made by the directors concerning my life....they knew better than me concerning my own life...lol
Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.
OS, are you S---ting me; people had to submit a personal/family budget?? I would have told them; my money is my business, and left!! Such nerve!!
Of course they didn't want anyone doing their own research. Your own research might lead to the realization that PLAF is riddled with errors and Saint Vic is a fraud.
Sic, God forbid that people in TWI, see that VPW was garbage, and take their ABS with them.
OS, are you S---ting me; people had to submit a personal/family budget??
Not sure it was mandated on the same level personal schedules were, or set in stone the same as the pregnancy policy for active corps, but yes i lived through this with my branch coordinator soon after i got involved with twi. Since my "spiritual goals" were to go way disciple and way corps i was asked submit my personal budget and had it restructured and approved by my branch coordinator. I had my abs increased and my priorities realigned financially to fit more inline with what martindale was spewing from his lectern. I was expected to submit my budget on a regular basis as well as my proposed and actual schedule each week.
If u wanted to pursue ministey programs then it was expected that u fall in line with what was asked of you by leadetship. Incrementally, like orhers, my boundaries were removed and i had no idea of the steady erosion that had occured until years later.
Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.
And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.
Not sure it was mandated on the same level personal schedules were, or set in stone the same as the pregnancy policy for active corps, but yes i lived through this with my branch coordinator soon after i got involved with twi. Since my "spiritual goals" were to go way disciple and way corps i was asked submit my personal budget and had it restructured and approved by my branch coordinator. I had my abs increased and my priorities realigned financially to fit more inline with what martindale was spewing from his lectern.
If u wanted to pursue ministey programs then it was expected that u fall in line with what was asked of you by leadetship. Incrementally, like orhers, my boundaries were removed and i had no idea of the steady erosion that had occured until years later.
OS, wow!! I didn't know about the budget thing before. I can understand why you submitted to this Hog Wash; I think you mentioned you went Corps?? I never went Corps; thank God. But you are right; TWI did erode personal boundaries of its people.
Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.
And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.
Krys, I left before all that trash started, thank God.
OS, wow!! I didn't know about the budget thing before. I can understand why you submitted to this Hog Wash; I think you mentioned you went Corps?? I never went Corps; thank God. But you are right; TWI did erode personal boundaries of its people.
Yeah, if there was a ministry program that i could sign up for i did. My last assignment was on the presidunce cabinet and was an exercise in futility...but....yes...ive been all around the way tree and climbed up and down that sucker too.
The micromanagement by twi increased the deeper one went down the rabbit hole.
And why wouldnt you want leadership looking over your finances? You are keeping your spiritual goals first? Right? Arent you willing to submit to the higher powers in the church? Etc...
Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.
And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.
Krys, TWI started that 15 minute schedule thing, after I left. Who wanted to know your schedule? Was it done on a week-to-week basis? I have never heard of this being done outside, TWI.
Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.
OS, I have problems sometimes with my personal budget; sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. In my opinion, budgets are guidelines, and help me keep track of my money. I guess everyone has his, or her view of "proper budgeting." What works for some, may not work for others.
Search (or re-search) into people's pockets, what say?
Also search (and re-search) into people's daily habits, including time spent with spouses. How prurient!
Some of the best research we (as ex-Wayfers) can do is - read other versions of the Bible. Especially more recent ones, in more comprehensible language. Can really bring those dry old passages into sparkling life.
Search (or re-search) into people's pockets, what say?
Also search (and re-search) into people's daily habits, including time spent with spouses. How prurient!
Some of the best research we (as ex-Wayfers) can do is - read other versions of the Bible. Especially more recent ones, in more comprehensible language. Can really bring those dry old passages into sparkling life.
Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.
OS, I can understand having classes for proper budgeting; some people have no idea of how to set up a personal budget. However, I think when the classes end, that should be the end of leadership getting involved in my personal finances.
OS, I can understand having classes for proper budgeting; some people have no idea of how to set up a personal budget. However, I think when the classes end, that should be the end of leadership getting involved in my personal finances.
And hence you have pinpointed the #1 problem with a cult.
Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.
And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.
I think if someone demanded I show them my checkbook and paycheck stub to prove I was properly ABSing, I'd tell them,"Good idea, you want to show me you checkbook and paystub to prove to me YOUR properly ABSing?"
Just re-search VPW's work. Anything else is a waste of time and resources, a distraction.
Believe it or not, there is no more research at TWI. They are doing exactly this - rewording what VPW has done. There are only so many book reports on the same book before it gets mundane, especially with the bleaching done to the STS teachings by Rosalie. I stopped getting the STS CDs because they were putting me to sleep. My local fellowship has better teachings, so I still go there.
Believe it or not, there is no more research at TWI. They are doing exactly this - rewording what VPW has done. There are only so many book reports on the same book before it gets mundane, especially with the bleaching done to the STS teachings by Rosalie.
EASY to believe.
A couple of years ago, a 9th corpse bro from a state in the SE USA had a business trip to my local area. He and I and another (already local) 9th corpse bro had dinner together. The fellow from out of state asked us if we still went to fellowships even though we long ago ended our association with twi. Both of us responded something pretty much along the lines of your statement on book reports.
Eventually, it gets old when one realizes that the "signs, miracles and wonders" PFLAP and dictor promised just don't manifest in twi or any of the various splinter groups.
I also recommend, for your reading pleasure, a book that sheds tremendous light on what "research" twi ever had and the ways dictor was able to pull the wool over our eyes for so long.
Believe it or not, there is no more research at TWI. They are doing exactly this - rewording what VPW has done. There are only so many book reports on the same book before it gets mundane, especially with the bleaching done to the STS teachings by Rosalie. I stopped getting the STS CDs because they were putting me to sleep. My local fellowship has better teachings, so I still go there.
I came to realize in my time in twi as corps assigned to hq that the home fellowships prop twi up on a false pedestal. The home fellowships could be really hot, and even some branches, but hq with rosalie and donnas mandates, just sucked the life out of anything that blipped on their radars as non-conformist to hq's legalistic ways. The closer a person gets to the board of dummies the more they are faced with a choice. Open their eyes to the hypocritical evil in practice by the bod, or do what many still do:
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GeorgeStGeorge
I don't think it was the greatness of the research emanating (or, rather, being copied and redistributed) from New Knoxville. For me, it was the logic of the fundamentalist approach as described (by
T-Bone
Yeah thinking some more about Chockfull & Twinky posts - I must say “great” research TWI - “studying” an ancient culture’s economical system as a basis for modern day financial strategy.. I’m
skyrider
Yeah.......and a large gift/inheritance from the wife's side of the family sure boosts one's lifestyle, too. LOL In 1980.....after just graduating from the 8th corps, gary and patricia go on hq-
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WordWolf
Sometime in the 80s if not sooner, the idea of REREADING the twi books rather than actually doing your own research had made progress among leadership, About 1990, AFTER LEAVING,. a local leader was nervous about the idea of locals actually doing their own research and teaching it. He said it would be better to go over the collaterals.
In the 1990s, lcm began saying the word "research" meant to "search again", that is, to keep covering the same ground ad infinitum the collaterals covered.
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So_crates
Of course they didn't want anyone doing their own research. Your own research might lead to the realization that PLAF is riddled with errors and Saint Vic is a fraud.
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OldSkool
Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.
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OldSkool
That concept is so embedded into the directors thinking that the colatterals (and many other publications, classes) are considered proven ministry research and are above reproach. Thus, the biblical student is still directed to keep researching whats been taught, but not to bring up any errors because 75 years of biblical research is above reproach.
Kinda like the accumulated wisdom line john rupp fed me when referring to decisions made by the directors concerning my life....they knew better than me concerning my own life...lol
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, are you S---ting me; people had to submit a personal/family budget?? I would have told them; my money is my business, and left!! Such nerve!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sic, God forbid that people in TWI, see that VPW was garbage, and take their ABS with them.
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OldSkool
Not sure it was mandated on the same level personal schedules were, or set in stone the same as the pregnancy policy for active corps, but yes i lived through this with my branch coordinator soon after i got involved with twi. Since my "spiritual goals" were to go way disciple and way corps i was asked submit my personal budget and had it restructured and approved by my branch coordinator. I had my abs increased and my priorities realigned financially to fit more inline with what martindale was spewing from his lectern. I was expected to submit my budget on a regular basis as well as my proposed and actual schedule each week.
If u wanted to pursue ministey programs then it was expected that u fall in line with what was asked of you by leadetship. Incrementally, like orhers, my boundaries were removed and i had no idea of the steady erosion that had occured until years later.
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krys
Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.
And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, wow!! I didn't know about the budget thing before. I can understand why you submitted to this Hog Wash; I think you mentioned you went Corps?? I never went Corps; thank God. But you are right; TWI did erode personal boundaries of its people.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Krys, I left before all that trash started, thank God.
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OldSkool
Yeah, if there was a ministry program that i could sign up for i did. My last assignment was on the presidunce cabinet and was an exercise in futility...but....yes...ive been all around the way tree and climbed up and down that sucker too.
The micromanagement by twi increased the deeper one went down the rabbit hole.
And why wouldnt you want leadership looking over your finances? You are keeping your spiritual goals first? Right? Arent you willing to submit to the higher powers in the church? Etc...
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Grace Valerie Claire
Krys, TWI started that 15 minute schedule thing, after I left. Who wanted to know your schedule? Was it done on a week-to-week basis? I have never heard of this being done outside, TWI.
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, I have problems sometimes with my personal budget; sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. In my opinion, budgets are guidelines, and help me keep track of my money. I guess everyone has his, or her view of "proper budgeting." What works for some, may not work for others.
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krys
Twig Coordinators had to see it.
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Twinky
Search (or re-search) into people's pockets, what say?
Also search (and re-search) into people's daily habits, including time spent with spouses. How prurient!
Some of the best research we (as ex-Wayfers) can do is - read other versions of the Bible. Especially more recent ones, in more comprehensible language. Can really bring those dry old passages into sparkling life.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Krys, thanks!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, bingo!! Great post!
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, I can understand having classes for proper budgeting; some people have no idea of how to set up a personal budget. However, I think when the classes end, that should be the end of leadership getting involved in my personal finances.
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chockfull
And hence you have pinpointed the #1 problem with a cult.
Boundaries.
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So_crates
I think if someone demanded I show them my checkbook and paycheck stub to prove I was properly ABSing, I'd tell them,"Good idea, you want to show me you checkbook and paystub to prove to me YOUR properly ABSing?"
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Taxidev
Believe it or not, there is no more research at TWI. They are doing exactly this - rewording what VPW has done. There are only so many book reports on the same book before it gets mundane, especially with the bleaching done to the STS teachings by Rosalie. I stopped getting the STS CDs because they were putting me to sleep. My local fellowship has better teachings, so I still go there.
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Rocky
EASY to believe.
A couple of years ago, a 9th corpse bro from a state in the SE USA had a business trip to my local area. He and I and another (already local) 9th corpse bro had dinner together. The fellow from out of state asked us if we still went to fellowships even though we long ago ended our association with twi. Both of us responded something pretty much along the lines of your statement on book reports.
Eventually, it gets old when one realizes that the "signs, miracles and wonders" PFLAP and dictor promised just don't manifest in twi or any of the various splinter groups.
I also recommend, for your reading pleasure, a book that sheds tremendous light on what "research" twi ever had and the ways dictor was able to pull the wool over our eyes for so long.
That book is Charlene Edge's Undertow.
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OldSkool
I came to realize in my time in twi as corps assigned to hq that the home fellowships prop twi up on a false pedestal. The home fellowships could be really hot, and even some branches, but hq with rosalie and donnas mandates, just sucked the life out of anything that blipped on their radars as non-conformist to hq's legalistic ways. The closer a person gets to the board of dummies the more they are faced with a choice. Open their eyes to the hypocritical evil in practice by the bod, or do what many still do:
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Taxidev
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You NAILED it! And I don't do that.
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