I think that under VP, most were unaware they were being bullied. It became obvious under LCM as he lacked the charisma and the natural leadership of VP. VP (the one time I met him) was charming. I never got that from LCM.
I DID feel coerced and manipulated under VP.
I attended my first ROA right after I completed PLAF, and I definitely felt "led" to at least try and go WOW. Even for several months after I married my post WOW/advanced class grad spouse, I tried to see if there was a way I could swing it. Then my husband invited me to read the WOW manual. All I could say after reading that was, WOW!. I had no desire to put myself and my kid through that. It was a standard that not even Jesus could adhere to, but it did give the bullies an opening as (presumably) one agreed to the standard.
Time and time again, we were bullied and conditioned against our better judgment
to follow wierwille's (martindale/geer/rivenbark) lead.
Even when these teachings were at cross-purposes with practical realities,
common sense and traditional norms:
1) Individual boundaries and advancement
2) Education and career choices
3) Christian faith and moral fiber
4) Family and good parenting
5) Investment and homeownership
6) Friends, neighbors and social networking
7) Goals, financial planning and retirement
8) Etc. etc.
In 1985, wierwille died......and the corps breathed fresh air again.
The bully was dead....and it was amazing how quickly things changed.
The movement was NOT real. The thug died and the chains broke.
And, most were not going to let bully jr. geer into our playground.
Isn't it amazing how much power lies in a bully pulpit
in the name of "christianity?"
Ditto. As for the title of this thread, I would delete the word "spiritual" as the adjective for bully.
Yeah.....ain't that the truth.
And, still others....the only way they could deal with the bully was avoidance.
So many just knew that their best strategy was to NOT CONFRONT THE BULLY,
but to just "leave the playground" and find another spot.
I vividly remember men like John R@ce, Ambassador One pilot.....
who just up and abruptly left twi. And, Mike Sm!th, First Corps
who headed to Alaska in June 1982. Yeah.....ALASKA. lol
Seems like some just wanted to put as much distance as possible for the life
that they WERE NOW CHOOSING.
Looking back, I now see why certain men fell in line while others didn't.
Wierwille took to manipulation like a duck takes to water.
Several other abrupt "defectors" include VPW's motorcoach driver, C*uck *cher. He was there one day and gone the next. I think that was in 1977 or so ... he left with the wife of one of the guys in Joyful Noise. Hush hush ...
Ditto. As for the title of this thread, I would delete the word "spiritual" as the adjective for bully.
*********
Several other abrupt "defectors" include VPW's motorcoach driver, C*uck *cher. He was there one day and gone the next. I think that was in 1977 or so ... he left with the wife of one of the guys in Joyful Noise. Hush hush ...
Yeah, penworks.....I thought about titling this tread, "A bully and his spiritual pulpit."
I agree with you. The adjective was misplaced.
Regarding the "defectors"......now, there's a name that I haven't thought about for a long time.
Chuck....the motorcoach driver before psycho-geer took the wheel. What I continue to find
amazing is THE DOZENS OF PEOPLE who were serving near wierwille and trustees...and DEFECTED.
Pilots, drivers, valets, musicians, security personnel, etc. Even aids to Mrs. Wierwille.
People, long-standing insiders, were constantly leaving.....year after year.
Have you ever wondered why the twi corporate culture evolved the way it did? NFWay would Wierwille have been able to get away with that crap for as long as he did he had the world wide web to contend with back then.
Have you ever wondered why the twi corporate culture evolved the way it did? NFWay would Wierwille have been able to get away with that crap for as long as he did he had the world wide web to contend with back then.
So true....IF there'd been internet access in 1980, wierwille would have been shut down.
But still, even today since Waydale and Greasespot [March 1999--November 2015].....very few corps,
and inner-circle insiders, have ever come forward to REALLY EXPOSE these serial predators. Imagine
what some of those valets, motorcoach drivers, security types, groomers, girl-pimps, seducers, etc
could detail where the bodies are buried?
Yet, so many took the pyramid model across the street and hung out their OWN shingle for business.
Splinters everwhere......sending out teaching tapes and a class you've just got to take. Ugh.
And, naturally.....the parasites cannot impugn wierwille's name, mog-doctrine or "legacy."
So, even with internet access and all.....much is STILL BURIED FROM SIGHT.
SkyRider.......the folks here at the GSC have exposed quite a bit of the soft, infected underbelly of twit. We know a lot about who the lifelong losers who took twit for themselves along with 64 million $ are. The spot has helped to knock them down to where they are now. They'll be a around as long as the money holds out to keep Gunnison and hellquarters alive and paid for. Or until they all just die off.
We know much about who did what. Vic did control all the info and communication from hq while he was healthy. There was no recourse. The propaganda machine has been in place since Van Wert. But, the Internet did open the floodgates and the river is still at flood stage. As secure and rich as Rosie and her lover Donna think they are, they live a wretched existence in guilt, shame, and revisionist denial. They can have it all. I'd never trade places with any of those lowlife criminals.
SkyRider.......the folks here at the GSC have exposed quite a bit of the soft, infected underbelly of twit. We know a lot about who the lifelong losers who took twit for themselves along with 64 million $ are. The spot has helped to knock them down to where they are now. They'll be a around as long as the money holds out to keep Gunnison and hellquarters alive and paid for. Or until they all just die off.
We know much about who did what. Vic did control all the info and communication from hq while he was healthy. There was no recourse. The propaganda machine has been in place since Van Wert. But, the Internet did open the floodgates and the river is still at flood stage. As secure and rich as Rosie and her lover Donna think they are, they live a wretched existence in guilt, shame, and revisionist denial. They can have it all. I'd never trade places with any of those lowlife criminals.
DWBH.....I wouldn't trade places with any of them either.
Certainly, not in this life.....or the one to come.
And I saw bullying in other ways, orchestrated ways actually, like Philemon 21 being quoted to exhort people to do MORE than was required; at other times people being screamed at for doing more than was asked !!!
SkyRider.......the folks here at the GSC have exposed quite a bit of the soft, infected underbelly of twit. We know a lot about who the lifelong losers who took twit for themselves along with 64 million $ are. The spot has helped to knock them down to where they are now. They'll be a around as long as the money holds out to keep Gunnison and hellquarters alive and paid for. Or until they all just die off.
We know much about who did what. Vic did control all the info and communication from hq while he was healthy. There was no recourse. The propaganda machine has been in place since Van Wert. But, the Internet did open the floodgates and the river is still at flood stage. As secure and rich as Rosie and her lover Donna think they are, they live a wretched existence in guilt, shame, and revisionist denial. They can have it all. I'd never trade places with any of those lowlife criminals.
No doubt. An hour of freedom, a breath of freedom is worth casting off the shackles of those false prophets fromTWI. VPW charismatic or not alive or not, built a spiritual inner circle swingers club that ran the show. A dumb young okie jock took a fifth of what was left and carried on the tradition leaving a trail of devastation until being cuckolded by Rosie and kind of divorced by Donna which they hid as well as their love life. My freedom started when I realized the only authority TWI had over me was in my mind. I could mindlessly accept TWIs authority over me or I could reject it as not coming from or set up by God.
The spot was the first thing that gave me a bit of hope after leaving. And a band. But it took me like 7 years after leaving before I'd interact with other Christians again or go to a church. I'm continuing to heal.
And TWI is something that reminds me of a song Roses by Outkast.
No doubt. An hour of freedom, a breath of freedom is worth casting off the shackles of those false prophets fromTWI. VPW charismatic or not alive or not, built a spiritual inner circle swingers club that ran the show. A dumb young okie jock took a fifth of what was left and carried on the tradition leaving a trail of devastation until being cuckolded by Rosie and kind of divorced by Donna which they hid as well as their love life. My freedom started when I realized the only authority TWI had over me was in my mind. I could mindlessly accept TWIs authority over me or I could reject it as not coming from or set up by God.
The spot was the first thing that gave me a bit of hope after leaving. And a band. But it took me like 7 years after leaving before I'd interact with other Christians again or go to a church. I'm continuing to heal.
And TWI is something that reminds me of a song Roses by Outkast.
A bully only exists because it take others to allow them to be a bully - a bully is a result of other folks being whimps.
I disagree. I have experienced a world system (including twi) where bullying was encouraged and orchestrated from top down, and there were no other options.
"A bully only exists because it take others to allow them to be a bully - a bully is a result of other folks being whimps."
This may be true for some types of bullies, the more blatant ones, such as you find on a school playground. But, the most skilled bullies I've encountered in my life are the ones who have people fooled into thinking they are "nice guys". They manipulate covertly and feign empathy. Those are the ones you have to watch out for. Being (or not being) a wimp isn't really a factor in those situations. In fact, the more you stand up to them, the more they turn up the heat. A negative response is what fuels them.
The bullying that went on in TWI was not the playground variety we hear so much about. It was a version of workplace bullying. Here's a snip from a helpful site that can help with understanding workplace bullying.
"Unlike schoolyard bullying, you were not targeted because you were a "loner" without friends to stand up to the bullying gang. Nor are you a weakling. Most likely, you were targeted (for reasons the instigator may or may not have known) because you posed a "threat" to him or her. The perception of threat is entirely in his/her mind, but it is what he/she feels and believes.
WBI research findings from our year 2000 study and conversations with thousands of targets have confirmed that targets appear to be the veteran and most skilled person in the workgroup.
Targets are independent. They refuse to be subservient. Bullies seek to enslave targets. When targets take steps to preserve their dignity, their right to be treated with respect, bullies escalate their campaigns of hatred and intimidation to wrest control of the target's work from the target."
"Targets are independent. They refuse to be subservient. Bullies seek to enslave targets. When targets take steps to preserve their dignity, their right to be treated with respect, bullies escalate their campaigns of hatred and intimidation to wrest control of the target's work from the target."
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waysider
Some people still line up to give him their lunch money.
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Tzaia
I think that under VP, most were unaware they were being bullied. It became obvious under LCM as he lacked the charisma and the natural leadership of VP. VP (the one time I met him) was charming. I never got that from LCM.
I DID feel coerced and manipulated under VP.
I attended my first ROA right after I completed PLAF, and I definitely felt "led" to at least try and go WOW. Even for several months after I married my post WOW/advanced class grad spouse, I tried to see if there was a way I could swing it. Then my husband invited me to read the WOW manual. All I could say after reading that was, WOW!. I had no desire to put myself and my kid through that. It was a standard that not even Jesus could adhere to, but it did give the bullies an opening as (presumably) one agreed to the standard.
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WordWolf
Someone once commented that the social sanctions in twi fell short of
actual physical beatings for refusing to obey leadership,
but only just short of that.
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waysider
This only applied to adults.
Some who were children in TWI may be of a different opinion.
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skyrider
Yeah.....ain't that the truth.
And, still others....the only way they could deal with the bully was avoidance.
So many just knew that their best strategy was to NOT CONFRONT THE BULLY,
but to just "leave the playground" and find another spot.
I vividly remember men like John R@ce, Ambassador One pilot.....
who just up and abruptly left twi. And, Mike Sm!th, First Corps
who headed to Alaska in June 1982. Yeah.....ALASKA. lol
Seems like some just wanted to put as much distance as possible for the life
that they WERE NOW CHOOSING.
Looking back, I now see why certain men fell in line while others didn't.
Wierwille took to manipulation like a duck takes to water.
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penworks
Ditto. As for the title of this thread, I would delete the word "spiritual" as the adjective for bully.
Several other abrupt "defectors" include VPW's motorcoach driver, C*uck *cher. He was there one day and gone the next. I think that was in 1977 or so ... he left with the wife of one of the guys in Joyful Noise. Hush hush ...
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skyrider
Yeah, penworks.....I thought about titling this tread, "A bully and his spiritual pulpit."
I agree with you. The adjective was misplaced.
Regarding the "defectors"......now, there's a name that I haven't thought about for a long time.
Chuck....the motorcoach driver before psycho-geer took the wheel. What I continue to find
amazing is THE DOZENS OF PEOPLE who were serving near wierwille and trustees...and DEFECTED.
Pilots, drivers, valets, musicians, security personnel, etc. Even aids to Mrs. Wierwille.
People, long-standing insiders, were constantly leaving.....year after year.
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Rocky
Then in the mid-1990s -- BAM! -- along came the internet and VPee's protegé never knew what hit him... so to speak.
Have you ever wondered why the twi corporate culture evolved the way it did? NFWay would Wierwille have been able to get away with that crap for as long as he did he had the world wide web to contend with back then.
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skyrider
So true....IF there'd been internet access in 1980, wierwille would have been shut down.
But still, even today since Waydale and Greasespot [March 1999--November 2015].....very few corps,
and inner-circle insiders, have ever come forward to REALLY EXPOSE these serial predators. Imagine
what some of those valets, motorcoach drivers, security types, groomers, girl-pimps, seducers, etc
could detail where the bodies are buried?
Yet, so many took the pyramid model across the street and hung out their OWN shingle for business.
Splinters everwhere......sending out teaching tapes and a class you've just got to take. Ugh.
And, naturally.....the parasites cannot impugn wierwille's name, mog-doctrine or "legacy."
So, even with internet access and all.....much is STILL BURIED FROM SIGHT.
Complicit? Bribed? Perplexed? Deceived? Don't care? Why bother? Move on?
Seems like, this is all you're going to find out. Unless Linder writes a book.
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DontWorryBeHappy
SkyRider.......the folks here at the GSC have exposed quite a bit of the soft, infected underbelly of twit. We know a lot about who the lifelong losers who took twit for themselves along with 64 million $ are. The spot has helped to knock them down to where they are now. They'll be a around as long as the money holds out to keep Gunnison and hellquarters alive and paid for. Or until they all just die off.
We know much about who did what. Vic did control all the info and communication from hq while he was healthy. There was no recourse. The propaganda machine has been in place since Van Wert. But, the Internet did open the floodgates and the river is still at flood stage. As secure and rich as Rosie and her lover Donna think they are, they live a wretched existence in guilt, shame, and revisionist denial. They can have it all. I'd never trade places with any of those lowlife criminals.
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skyrider
DWBH.....I wouldn't trade places with any of them either.
Certainly, not in this life.....or the one to come.
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Allan
And I saw bullying in other ways, orchestrated ways actually, like Philemon 21 being quoted to exhort people to do MORE than was required; at other times people being screamed at for doing more than was asked !!!
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chockfull
Don't leave out the motor coach driver between the two P3t3r E$mond. I mean since you brought it up.
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chockfull
No doubt. An hour of freedom, a breath of freedom is worth casting off the shackles of those false prophets fromTWI. VPW charismatic or not alive or not, built a spiritual inner circle swingers club that ran the show. A dumb young okie jock took a fifth of what was left and carried on the tradition leaving a trail of devastation until being cuckolded by Rosie and kind of divorced by Donna which they hid as well as their love life. My freedom started when I realized the only authority TWI had over me was in my mind. I could mindlessly accept TWIs authority over me or I could reject it as not coming from or set up by God.
The spot was the first thing that gave me a bit of hope after leaving. And a band. But it took me like 7 years after leaving before I'd interact with other Christians again or go to a church. I'm continuing to heal.
And TWI is something that reminds me of a song Roses by Outkast.
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Rocky
Good one Chocky...
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MRAP
A bully only exists because it take others to allow them to be a bully - a bully is a result of other folks being whimps.
TWI leadership became the way they were because we were whimps and did not speak up when we learned things were wrong.
News Flash: we were responsible for the bullies and the demise of all things that were good in twi, we allowed it to happen.
We became the slaves to fear and did not realize it until all that was good and true was lost.
Ever read: "Lord of the Flies", not a total but enough correlation to the twi world we knew, lived in and left.
Control someone by the thing they love most - God's word/Bible/etc.; now that's a miss-use of the word and God forgive them.
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Ham
I disagree. I have experienced a world system (including twi) where bullying was encouraged and orchestrated from top down, and there were no other options.
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Ham
TWI is not more spiritual, nor no less godless than any wordly corporation, such as WalMart.. well. In my opinion anyway..
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waysider
"A bully only exists because it take others to allow them to be a bully - a bully is a result of other folks being whimps."
This may be true for some types of bullies, the more blatant ones, such as you find on a school playground. But, the most skilled bullies I've encountered in my life are the ones who have people fooled into thinking they are "nice guys". They manipulate covertly and feign empathy. Those are the ones you have to watch out for. Being (or not being) a wimp isn't really a factor in those situations. In fact, the more you stand up to them, the more they turn up the heat. A negative response is what fuels them.
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Bolshevik
This needed an honorable mention, ha ha ha.
Who were the true bullies in twi?
Were the true bullies even IN twi? Point at leadership. Point at followers. Blame a three-year-old, the Bible says you should.
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waysider
The bullying that went on in TWI was not the playground variety we hear so much about. It was a version of workplace bullying. Here's a snip from a helpful site that can help with understanding workplace bullying.
"Unlike schoolyard bullying, you were not targeted because you were a "loner" without friends to stand up to the bullying gang. Nor are you a weakling. Most likely, you were targeted (for reasons the instigator may or may not have known) because you posed a "threat" to him or her. The perception of threat is entirely in his/her mind, but it is what he/she feels and believes.
WBI research findings from our year 2000 study and conversations with thousands of targets have confirmed that targets appear to be the veteran and most skilled person in the workgroup.
Targets are independent. They refuse to be subservient. Bullies seek to enslave targets. When targets take steps to preserve their dignity, their right to be treated with respect, bullies escalate their campaigns of hatred and intimidation to wrest control of the target's work from the target."
SOURCE
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Bolshevik
Just remember folks, I'm screaming at you and calling you names, because I love you.
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That would have been a great thing to do if you'd checked with me first. No condemnation, but you should be ashamed.
Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the
multitude of counselors there is safety.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
oh, that may seem like a good idea in light of all this new information, but stay the course.
Carefully consider the path for your feet, and all your ways will be established
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waysider
I apologize for ever being part of an organization that sanctioned this sort of behavior.
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skyrider
EXACTLY.......and that is why the MOST FIERY confrontations were leveled at dissenting corps leadership
in closed quarters, in corps meetings, where the bully-mog had 100% control of confrontation/intimidation
for maximum impact.
Most Fiery Confrontations
The bully-mog wierwille escalated the confrontation to a level that few twi-followers ever saw.
It was so over-the-top that, I think, most corps refuted to process what just took place before
their eyes.....and shelved it to the further recesses of their brain cells. To actually dwell
upon the content required a critical thinking process that few wanted to engage in.
Wierwille knew how to manipulate and bully. The independent free-thinkers, and researchers,
and outspoken rabble-rousers were targets....because they posed a threat to lockstep loyalty
and cultdom. The strong, and independent, and successful......split.
What's left at twi's hq? The subservient. The lapdogs. The weak and fearful.
Those department coordinators who've been there for 30 years hardly have a thought
that they could call their own. They are pawns to rosalie's rules and regs.
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