Life is seldom as straight forward as we would like it to be. Suppose there is someone at work you suspect of stealing. You have a pretty solid idea they are but you have no way to prove it. Then again, maybe you're mistaken. Maybe you've misinterpreted something. What do you do? Who do you tell? You certainly can't just blatantly accuse them. Do you approach a superior? Maybe the superior is part of the problem. Then what? This is the sort of scenarios that played out in The Way training programs. People who did speak out and seek advise from superiors were often quickly removed from the picture. It's really a false assumption that people didn't speak out. The "adultery paper" is but one example.
So, you put those sort of thoughts on the back burner, and with little time for introspection, and in a state of constant sleep deprivation, they are eventually forgotten. These are some of the things that people don't always quite understand when they wonder why someone didn't "just say something".
Thanks for explaining the situation so clearly. It really does shed light on how some of us didn't recognize the scarlet flags for what they were, even though they were flying all around . When you're focused on some things over here, you can't pay attention to other things over there, much less recognize that distant blurry picture for what it is out the corner of your eye.
Well, I don't know about the rest of you from my "generation of TWI followers" but I feel sick about the lack of adult responsibility that Dana's story brings to light. I keep thinking about it over and over.
IMO every parent who dumped TWI dogma and TWI-style behavior, i.e. denigrating others of different beliefs among other gross things, on their kids, is responsible for helping their children recover from the bigotry. I don't see any attempt by the minister who did the memorial service for Dana's father taking any responsibility to help Dana.
There is much trouble, with a capital T. People like Dana's mother may not have the strength or understanding yet, to instruct her children. Well, I hope we welcome her here if she ever arrives, and that we don't throw stones at her. Weren't some of us in the same boat of denial as she was while we were enraptured with TWI?
So, I wonder how the GSC community can fill the gap of offering informed -- informed! -- counsel for this next generation of kids damaged to one degree or another by the behavior of their brainwashed parents? Are we offering that here, or do we argue back and forth about man-made dogmas, out-of-context Bible verses, and worn out plagiarized interpretations of Scripture masquerading as truth? If we keep dragging the kind of Christianity that the apostle Paul invented into every conversation we will never unwrap ourselves from our problems.
I don't care who we are, have we said to our children in the privacy of our own homes, "I'm deeply sorry I fed you the bigotry of TWI, which in large measure is based not only on VPW's craziness, but also on St. Paul's brand of Christianity, yes, ohmygod, just read the verses where he turned people over to Satan for disagreeing with him.
Can we say, "I will get myself educated about what happened to me in Wierwille's cult, and I will try and share what I've learned with my child."
Will more children (now adults with their own children, like Dana) have to come here among strangers to learn the truth about what happened in their parents' lives? I would be at the very least embarrassed, but more like stricken with guilt, if my daughter had to learn all this truth which is largely terrible dirt about TWI, from other people, not from her own mother.
And oh yeah, have I owned up to my part in all the past crap? Have I tried to make amends?
I realize I am probably preaching to the choir tonight. But I guess sometimes choir members are the only ones around to listen...
Well, I don't know about the rest of you from my "generation of TWI followers" but I feel sick about the lack of adult responsibility that Dana's story brings to light. I keep thinking about it over and over.
IMO every parent who dumped TWI dogma and TWI-style behavior, i.e. denigrating others of different beliefs among other gross things, on their kids, is responsible for helping their children recover from the bigotry. I don't see any attempt by the minister who did the memorial service for Dana's father taking any responsibility to help Dana.
There is much trouble, with a capital T. People like Dana's mother may not have the strength or understanding yet, to instruct her children. Well, I hope we welcome her here if she ever arrives, and that we don't throw stones at her. Weren't some of us in the same boat of denial as she was while we were enraptured with TWI?
So, I wonder how the GSC community can fill the gap of offering informed -- informed! -- counsel for this next generation of kids damaged to one degree or another by the behavior of their brainwashed parents? Are we offering that here, or do we argue back and forth about man-made dogmas, out-of-context Bible verses, and worn out plagiarized interpretations of Scripture masquerading as truth? If we keep dragging the kind of Christianity that the apostle Paul invented into every conversation we will never unwrap ourselves from our problems.
I don't care who we are, have we said to our children in the privacy of our own homes, "I'm deeply sorry I fed you the bigotry of TWI, which in large measure is based not only on VPW's craziness, but also on St. Paul's brand of Christianity, yes, ohmygod, just read the verses where he turned people over to Satan for disagreeing with him.
Can we say, "I will get myself educated about what happened to me in Wierwille's cult, and I will try and share what I've learned with my child."
Will more children (now adults with their own children, like Dana) have to come here among strangers to learn the truth about what happened in their parents' lives? I would be at the very least embarrassed, but more like stricken with guilt, if my daughter had to learn all this truth which is largely terrible dirt about TWI, from other people, not from her own mother.
And oh yeah, have I owned up to my part in all the past crap? Have I tried to make amends?
I realize I am probably preaching to the choir tonight. But I guess sometimes choir members are the only ones around to listen...
Penworks
damn, charlene. you must be the first agnostic preacher on the face of the planet ;) rock on
yes yes and yes. blood is on my hands for being dumb. yes i've apologized to my kids but actually that's been more like a long series of conversations rather than, "sorry, won't do it again". and my kids are one of the reasons i want to model normal christianity as opposed to cult christianity - for them. now its more figuring out where God is moving in and out of churches and where He is not. at least from my perspective anyway. "the truth" as we knew it was a ploy to use small insignificant sections of scripture to gain trust and loyalty - like 4 crucified, how many died, etc. whether they are more or less accurate than a church gospel account to me seems a bit less significant than whether the group will suck you in, use you up and spit you out. there are real christians in churches who will love you and not manipulate you. and they may have less of a bible understanding in some categories than some of us but that doesn't matter. why? because love more than makes up for it.
DWBH.....Thanks for your posts! I am so glad you still pop in and post direct, uncovering truth for people who are here. There are new people here all the time and they need to hear the straight truth of it all.
When I read stories of "what happened", it makes me sick! I ask myself, how in the world did I become a part of this organization and stay for 13 years??? Unbelievable to me!
And here's the worst part of it all, I wanted to be like them! OMG.......I'm lucky to be alive! God's mercy and forgiveness is a gift to me.
I'm am so sorry for having been in it, promoted it, lived it, stood by it and then almost died with it.
And there are soooo many split offs that are promoting their own versions of "The Truth". For me, I wasn't sure what truth was when I left TWI....just was confused and depressed by it all. I left in 86 I believe and it's taken all these years to sort through all the stuff, beliefs, lies, and get to a place of having what I consider to be a blessed and good life. I'm getting ready to retire soon, and I am so very grateful to a God who has brought me through it all!!
LOL! It really is no great effort for me to recount the things I know and experienced firsthand. And, as Chockfull said and you re-iterated, i don't want any vestiges of this totalist horror that negatively interrupted and altered far too many innocent, idealistic souls to ever appear 20 years from now either.it's already been 30 years since all the stuff about Vic's been known. And, with today's 24/7/365 instantaneous info overload, nothing about insignificant, idiotic cults like twit, TLTF, STFI, SOWERS, the over-schmaltz "rev" gerry wrenn, former mayor of Mayberry, NC, livinghope ministries international, "Dr." Dale Sides and his B.G.Leonard rip-off liberating ministries international universal holy spirit manifestin' rightly divided warrior prophet version of of Vic's moghood, roodawakenings intergalactic I'm-a-poor-sick-levite-failed-doomsday-self-deluded-prophet-send-me-money-take-my-classes invention of the internets, Victor barnard and his River road fellowship of mostly ex-corpse grads.....yeah....one 14th corpse VB sits in a rural Braziluan jail awaiting extradition back to MN to face 59 separate counts if rape serial rape tape and sexual assault of at least 10 minor women with the consent of their ex-corpse parents like Carmen Tornambe. Oh, don't worry! They've been on Dr. Phil and John Walsh's CNN Most Wanted shows, so I'm breaking any confidences or spreading any lies. And, unfortunately, that's just the beginning of a long list of losers and sociopaths, unconfessed, and unconvicted criminals, unrepentant, unapologetic "Christian" leaders, and generally annoying self-promoters extraordinaire anywhere there's an electric plug and a keyboard.
So you bet we need to keep speaking up and out! Human lives literally hang in the balance. It is a question of human decency, common morality, and simple Justice. Religion or spiritual whatever has nothing to do with it. It's far more profound than that. It is a matter of the unalterable common blood, and spirit we ALL share as human beings. ONE BLOOD! ALL NATIONS! ONE RACE! ALL HUMANS! That's what it's about for me.........peace.
hey just got around to reading that blog. nice article and resources. on your book i don't know your situation but self publishing through lulu.com is a great way to go getting things out to a small audience and getting up and running quickly.
hey just got around to reading that blog. nice article and resources. on your book i don't know your situation but self publishing through lulu.com is a great way to go getting things out to a small audience and getting up and running quickly.
Oh, thanks chockfull, for the Lulu idea. Yes, they are good. I think our old friend C&*istian Abr***m used it to publish his two books. One is, The Secret Curse Surrenders. Loved that. But prepare yourself for a wild ride into Indiana Campus-land...
Anyway, I may go that route. There are a few irons in the fire.
Dana I'm sorry for your loss, but I am happy that you found the means to contact many of the people involved and get some closure and in some small way clear your fathers name.
I also want to thank Charlene for speaking up about agnostics and atheists, I'm one of a few atheists here that has called people out. I've made it clear I hate all religions, I have also made it clear I think it's totally stupid to continue to believe in TWI's brand of dogma saying the problem was just bad leadership, it's like saying if I only move to a different cabin on the Titanic it will be better.
Thanks for the interesting insider history DWBH and I forget the other name Skyrider I think.
HOLY SHMOLY! I leave for a few months and all THIS!
So sorry Dana. My heart aches for you! All too familiar this modus operendi! Many cults today are still doing these same exact things to their followers and it makes me want to PUNCH SOMETHING!
As my Father in Law Corps and Staffer said:
"I caught Craigster banging a Corps girl in his office a few times....who was I gonna tell?"
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waysider
I'm so sorry, Dana. Such things should never have happened in an organization that was supposedly centered on God. Well, they never should have happened in ANY organization, for that matter. My hope
danafort
Update: It has been brought to my attention that my mom's marriage to her second husband was likely orchestrated by The Way in an effort to ensure that my mom would never talk about what happened with
penworks
Hello. I'd like to step in and remind readers that some of us here are agnostics (I am) or atheists or whatever else who feel a moral obligation to speak up on topics pertaining to TWI and on our expe
penworks
Thanks for explaining the situation so clearly. It really does shed light on how some of us didn't recognize the scarlet flags for what they were, even though they were flying all around . When you're focused on some things over here, you can't pay attention to other things over there, much less recognize that distant blurry picture for what it is out the corner of your eye.
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penworks
Well, I don't know about the rest of you from my "generation of TWI followers" but I feel sick about the lack of adult responsibility that Dana's story brings to light. I keep thinking about it over and over.
IMO every parent who dumped TWI dogma and TWI-style behavior, i.e. denigrating others of different beliefs among other gross things, on their kids, is responsible for helping their children recover from the bigotry. I don't see any attempt by the minister who did the memorial service for Dana's father taking any responsibility to help Dana.
There is much trouble, with a capital T. People like Dana's mother may not have the strength or understanding yet, to instruct her children. Well, I hope we welcome her here if she ever arrives, and that we don't throw stones at her. Weren't some of us in the same boat of denial as she was while we were enraptured with TWI?
So, I wonder how the GSC community can fill the gap of offering informed -- informed! -- counsel for this next generation of kids damaged to one degree or another by the behavior of their brainwashed parents? Are we offering that here, or do we argue back and forth about man-made dogmas, out-of-context Bible verses, and worn out plagiarized interpretations of Scripture masquerading as truth? If we keep dragging the kind of Christianity that the apostle Paul invented into every conversation we will never unwrap ourselves from our problems.
I don't care who we are, have we said to our children in the privacy of our own homes, "I'm deeply sorry I fed you the bigotry of TWI, which in large measure is based not only on VPW's craziness, but also on St. Paul's brand of Christianity, yes, ohmygod, just read the verses where he turned people over to Satan for disagreeing with him.
Can we say, "I will get myself educated about what happened to me in Wierwille's cult, and I will try and share what I've learned with my child."
Will more children (now adults with their own children, like Dana) have to come here among strangers to learn the truth about what happened in their parents' lives? I would be at the very least embarrassed, but more like stricken with guilt, if my daughter had to learn all this truth which is largely terrible dirt about TWI, from other people, not from her own mother.
And oh yeah, have I owned up to my part in all the past crap? Have I tried to make amends?
I realize I am probably preaching to the choir tonight. But I guess sometimes choir members are the only ones around to listen...
Penworks
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Rocky
Nevertheless, you didn't come off as preachy. It's a good reminder that can't hurt to review every so often. Thanks.
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chockfull
damn, charlene. you must be the first agnostic preacher on the face of the planet ;) rock on
yes yes and yes. blood is on my hands for being dumb. yes i've apologized to my kids but actually that's been more like a long series of conversations rather than, "sorry, won't do it again". and my kids are one of the reasons i want to model normal christianity as opposed to cult christianity - for them. now its more figuring out where God is moving in and out of churches and where He is not. at least from my perspective anyway. "the truth" as we knew it was a ploy to use small insignificant sections of scripture to gain trust and loyalty - like 4 crucified, how many died, etc. whether they are more or less accurate than a church gospel account to me seems a bit less significant than whether the group will suck you in, use you up and spit you out. there are real christians in churches who will love you and not manipulate you. and they may have less of a bible understanding in some categories than some of us but that doesn't matter. why? because love more than makes up for it.
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newlife
DWBH.....Thanks for your posts! I am so glad you still pop in and post direct, uncovering truth for people who are here. There are new people here all the time and they need to hear the straight truth of it all.
When I read stories of "what happened", it makes me sick! I ask myself, how in the world did I become a part of this organization and stay for 13 years??? Unbelievable to me!
And here's the worst part of it all, I wanted to be like them! OMG.......I'm lucky to be alive! God's mercy and forgiveness is a gift to me.
I'm am so sorry for having been in it, promoted it, lived it, stood by it and then almost died with it.
And there are soooo many split offs that are promoting their own versions of "The Truth". For me, I wasn't sure what truth was when I left TWI....just was confused and depressed by it all. I left in 86 I believe and it's taken all these years to sort through all the stuff, beliefs, lies, and get to a place of having what I consider to be a blessed and good life. I'm getting ready to retire soon, and I am so very grateful to a God who has brought me through it all!!
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WordWolf
Around here, the choir may be the only ones REPLYING,
but we get a LOT of lurkers and guests who read things.
Remember that twi has always been about information blackouts,
with limited releases of information? twi'ers used to visit
Waydale to get the latest news their hq refused to tell them.
So, lots of fans of twi and/or fans of vpw still read here,
and some of this information may just be what they need to get
deliverance and move on with their lives.
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chockfull
you mentioned victor barnard
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penworks
Yeah, Victor Bernard. Yikes. This talk show on YouTube really stirred things up. Let's hope it got some viewers thinking...
I mentioned VB in a blog post recently.
http://charleneedge....flage-of-cults/
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Rocky
Well, it was posted in April 2014, has about 2,500 views... had only two thumbs up and two thumbs down. Now it has three thumbs up.
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chockfull
hey just got around to reading that blog. nice article and resources. on your book i don't know your situation but self publishing through lulu.com is a great way to go getting things out to a small audience and getting up and running quickly.
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penworks
Oh, thanks chockfull, for the Lulu idea. Yes, they are good. I think our old friend C&*istian Abr***m used it to publish his two books. One is, The Secret Curse Surrenders. Loved that. But prepare yourself for a wild ride into Indiana Campus-land...
Anyway, I may go that route. There are a few irons in the fire.
Cheers,
Pen
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Seth R.
Dana I'm sorry for your loss, but I am happy that you found the means to contact many of the people involved and get some closure and in some small way clear your fathers name.
I also want to thank Charlene for speaking up about agnostics and atheists, I'm one of a few atheists here that has called people out. I've made it clear I hate all religions, I have also made it clear I think it's totally stupid to continue to believe in TWI's brand of dogma saying the problem was just bad leadership, it's like saying if I only move to a different cabin on the Titanic it will be better.
Thanks for the interesting insider history DWBH and I forget the other name Skyrider I think.
Seth
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DontWorryBeHappy
Always good to see ya Seth, and to read you. And, your welcome, my pleasure.
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bliss
HOLY SHMOLY! I leave for a few months and all THIS!
So sorry Dana. My heart aches for you! All too familiar this modus operendi! Many cults today are still doing these same exact things to their followers and it makes me want to PUNCH SOMETHING!
As my Father in Law Corps and Staffer said:
"I caught Craigster banging a Corps girl in his office a few times....who was I gonna tell?"
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shortfuse
Just threw up a little in my mouth.
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