We had a discussion a few years ago about some of the fool-hearted things we did, thinking believing and speaking in tongues would protect us. I, personally, took quite a few chances at work that could have jeopardized my health and safety. Some don't even make their effects known for years after the fact. I thought that believing and speaking in tongues would cover me and that God would give me revelation if I was pushing the envelope. Well, my *5 senses* told me I was tempting fate but I didn't get any *revelation* so I thought everything was OK. That's where the danger comes in. When people (mostly outsiders) try to tell me believing is innocuous I have to cringe at their unawareness of the potential for catastrophic results.
I'm with you waysider. When sent out on the WOW field with a branch and family that were mostly years junior to me I took on a "workman's" leadership role (like a contractor) and used my senses and construction experiences mostly to negotiate with property owners to get housing for some of the branch families. I SIT'd alot and "beleived" but in essence, it was just plain determination and bartering WOW labor to fix up properties to get rents lowered and security deposits dropped. All in all, that working together as a branch those first few weeks made us a tight group (knit together in love, I think that was the ROA motto that year) and gave confidence to many who had never seen a hammer or paint brush previously. That initial experience for the branch was a "God Send" if you believe in such things. To do what we did was not revelation it was just common sense and that's how I think God mostly opperates: initiative and determination with a positive "can do" attitude. I am convinced prayer/SITing was also a factor (too many coincidences). Mostly everyone getting jobs, to quote the last statement in Conan the Barbarian: "That's another story". Sorry folks if I got off topic, am sure there is a forum that already exists for such dissertations.
Correct me if wrong but are we not supposed to get revelation first (and maybe more) if God wants us to do something. Isn't it only when our spiritual ears are so closed that God then gives that revelation to someone else (Paul and the binding of the hands in latter book of Acts). So, does the revelation only have to do with the movement of the Word or can it also include our personal lives? Hey, revelation: really, I ask you my learned brothers, sometimes the small voice or a loud shout.
I think about a DS situation, now that was loud: do it, what to do and how to deal with her afterward. It was after that, that I questioned (only to myself of course) why did not my Branch Leader who was there not get the revelation package to do it? Funny, looking back on it all, I was not asked to explain my actions (branch leader was outa the room so did not see it all). In truth, I did not know what had occurred at the time, it was only later I put the pieces together. So, what's the test: she stayed faithfull to the word for at least over a year until we lost contact - she went to work at the Wisconsin Limb HQ.
So, getting back on topic: Dangerous Revelation. I don't recall any event where revelation was given to me that endangered my life. I do recall being sent out of the house to do a walk around because there were some "spiritual things" going on outside the house (yeh, took a while to gather my witts and courage on that). Again, went out to do the task (with my family brother) by the branch leader; it's only on retrospect that if it was "spiritual" then why did not my branch leader, the spiritual heavy weight do the task and we follow along to learn from the master. I think she was just paranoid since it was her and 2 other girls and let men do the task and that it was not a spiritual threat at all or else, it was just a game she executed to test our commitment as this was early in the WOW year. I should have figured it out then: the branch leader tested us or she was incappable of leading by example or did she have revelation that we were more spiritually strong then she (yeh, right). In all hind sight, I think she was just hearing things and wanted us to go out and clear the house, dang, just get a frick'n gun. The branch leader was hot and just figured everybody wanted her - just saying.
So, getting back on topic: Dangerous Revelation. I don't recall any event where revelation was given to me that endangered my life.
The point is that "revelation" was "given" to those higher up in the twi hierarchy that wasn't really revelation from God. That faux guidance was manipulative of the underlings and put those people in dangerous situations.
The point is that "revelation" was "given" to those higher up in the twi hierarchy that wasn't really revelation from God. That faux guidance was manipulative of the underlings and put those people in dangerous situations.
Exactly. People participated in LEAD, thinking the whole thing was revelation based. It wasn't. Some suffered life long disabilities because they thought they were following revelation given to leadership. Others weren't so lucky and lost their lives completely. I never went LEAD but I did a lot of foolish things that I had serious doubts about at the time. I thought my intuitive doubts were unbelief and pushed on recklessly because I thought my 5 senses were betraying me. It all sounds crazy looking back from a different perspective.
The point is that "revelation" was "given" to those higher up in the twi hierarchy that wasn't really revelation from God. That faux guidance was manipulative of the underlings and put those people in dangerous situations.
Exactly. People participated in LEAD, thinking the whole thing was revelation based. It wasn't. Some suffered life long disabilities because they thought they were following revelation given to leadership. Others weren't so lucky and lost their lives completely. I never went LEAD but I did a lot of foolish things that I had serious doubts about at the time. I thought my intuitive doubts were unbelief and pushed on recklessly because I thought my 5 senses were betraying me. It all sounds crazy looking back from a different perspective.
I wonder if anyone really received revelation of any kind at all That bunch of clowns on the farm in Ohio was so corrupt they would say anything to manipulate the masses. From what I've read, they didn't give a rat's @@@ about any Corps people. I think they would tell you they got revelation to tell you to hitch hike to L.E.A.D. just so they could save the money for the bus fare to get you out there and back!
FWIW - I do believe that many of you safely made it out there and back by prayer and/or operation of one or more manifestations....but that's to your credit....not theirs.
This was edited because on first posting, the second paragraph (from Waysider) didn't get included and it should have been. Oops!
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krys
If that was revelation...it didn't come from the God I know!
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waysider
We had a discussion a few years ago about some of the fool-hearted things we did, thinking believing and speaking in tongues would protect us. I, personally, took quite a few chances at work that could have jeopardized my health and safety. Some don't even make their effects known for years after the fact. I thought that believing and speaking in tongues would cover me and that God would give me revelation if I was pushing the envelope. Well, my *5 senses* told me I was tempting fate but I didn't get any *revelation* so I thought everything was OK. That's where the danger comes in. When people (mostly outsiders) try to tell me believing is innocuous I have to cringe at their unawareness of the potential for catastrophic results.
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MRAP
I'm with you waysider. When sent out on the WOW field with a branch and family that were mostly years junior to me I took on a "workman's" leadership role (like a contractor) and used my senses and construction experiences mostly to negotiate with property owners to get housing for some of the branch families. I SIT'd alot and "beleived" but in essence, it was just plain determination and bartering WOW labor to fix up properties to get rents lowered and security deposits dropped. All in all, that working together as a branch those first few weeks made us a tight group (knit together in love, I think that was the ROA motto that year) and gave confidence to many who had never seen a hammer or paint brush previously. That initial experience for the branch was a "God Send" if you believe in such things. To do what we did was not revelation it was just common sense and that's how I think God mostly opperates: initiative and determination with a positive "can do" attitude. I am convinced prayer/SITing was also a factor (too many coincidences). Mostly everyone getting jobs, to quote the last statement in Conan the Barbarian: "That's another story". Sorry folks if I got off topic, am sure there is a forum that already exists for such dissertations.
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outandabout
VP sent WOWs to Iran the same year of the revolution when they outed the Shah and the WOWs had to scramble to get out of the country.
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MRAP
Correct me if wrong but are we not supposed to get revelation first (and maybe more) if God wants us to do something. Isn't it only when our spiritual ears are so closed that God then gives that revelation to someone else (Paul and the binding of the hands in latter book of Acts). So, does the revelation only have to do with the movement of the Word or can it also include our personal lives? Hey, revelation: really, I ask you my learned brothers, sometimes the small voice or a loud shout.
I think about a DS situation, now that was loud: do it, what to do and how to deal with her afterward. It was after that, that I questioned (only to myself of course) why did not my Branch Leader who was there not get the revelation package to do it? Funny, looking back on it all, I was not asked to explain my actions (branch leader was outa the room so did not see it all). In truth, I did not know what had occurred at the time, it was only later I put the pieces together. So, what's the test: she stayed faithfull to the word for at least over a year until we lost contact - she went to work at the Wisconsin Limb HQ.
So, getting back on topic: Dangerous Revelation. I don't recall any event where revelation was given to me that endangered my life. I do recall being sent out of the house to do a walk around because there were some "spiritual things" going on outside the house (yeh, took a while to gather my witts and courage on that). Again, went out to do the task (with my family brother) by the branch leader; it's only on retrospect that if it was "spiritual" then why did not my branch leader, the spiritual heavy weight do the task and we follow along to learn from the master. I think she was just paranoid since it was her and 2 other girls and let men do the task and that it was not a spiritual threat at all or else, it was just a game she executed to test our commitment as this was early in the WOW year. I should have figured it out then: the branch leader tested us or she was incappable of leading by example or did she have revelation that we were more spiritually strong then she (yeh, right). In all hind sight, I think she was just hearing things and wanted us to go out and clear the house, dang, just get a frick'n gun. The branch leader was hot and just figured everybody wanted her - just saying.
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Rocky
The point is that "revelation" was "given" to those higher up in the twi hierarchy that wasn't really revelation from God. That faux guidance was manipulative of the underlings and put those people in dangerous situations.
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waysider
Exactly. People participated in LEAD, thinking the whole thing was revelation based. It wasn't. Some suffered life long disabilities because they thought they were following revelation given to leadership. Others weren't so lucky and lost their lives completely. I never went LEAD but I did a lot of foolish things that I had serious doubts about at the time. I thought my intuitive doubts were unbelief and pushed on recklessly because I thought my 5 senses were betraying me. It all sounds crazy looking back from a different perspective.
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krys
Exactly. People participated in LEAD, thinking the whole thing was revelation based. It wasn't. Some suffered life long disabilities because they thought they were following revelation given to leadership. Others weren't so lucky and lost their lives completely. I never went LEAD but I did a lot of foolish things that I had serious doubts about at the time. I thought my intuitive doubts were unbelief and pushed on recklessly because I thought my 5 senses were betraying me. It all sounds crazy looking back from a different perspective.
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I wonder if anyone really received revelation of any kind at all That bunch of clowns on the farm in Ohio was so corrupt they would say anything to manipulate the masses. From what I've read, they didn't give a rat's @@@ about any Corps people. I think they would tell you they got revelation to tell you to hitch hike to L.E.A.D. just so they could save the money for the bus fare to get you out there and back!
FWIW - I do believe that many of you safely made it out there and back by prayer and/or operation of one or more manifestations....but that's to your credit....not theirs.
This was edited because on first posting, the second paragraph (from Waysider) didn't get included and it should have been. Oops!
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