How vpw faked the 9.

[WordWolf]

If anyone wants to get into whether or not the 9 are available now,

please take it to Doctrinal. There's been at least 1 thread about

it, and you can start a new thread or revive an old thread on it.

Either way, it's irrelevant to the thread I want, because it's a

non-issue RELATIVE TO THE THREAD.

(I add that last part in deference to those who then turn around

and say "You said the 9 are a non-issue" and so I will help shore up

their deficient reading comprehension skills.)

=================================

Whether or not the 9 are available now or common now as real things,

it should be obvious that it is possible to at least TRY to fake them.

Did vpw fake his way through all 9?

I believe the evidence is that he did.

What he did certainly could have been fakes of them.

Let's go through them and see what he did.

Speaking in tongues- despite his claims that it was impossible to fake,

it is very possible to fake. Small children play games with non-word

syllables that resemble words. Actors train with them in learning the

basics of performing. And charlatans can do it, too.

So, vpw certainly could have done the sounds. Could he have sounded

convincing when he did? He sounded sincere when he told the CFS

class that men shouldn't "help themselves" to a woman, but he was doing

exactly that while saying it was wrong. So, he could sound sincere

regardless of the truth of what he was saying.

WOULD he have faked SIT?

ACCORDING TO HIM, HE FAKED IT.

His account of the 1953 conference where he met Stiles included some

Christians trying to lead him into SIT, and him deliberately faking it.

Did he fake it to them? Either he did and admitted it, or he claimed

he did and was fine with the idea that he'd faked it.

Furthermore, his actual incidences of SIT always seemed rather limited.

All the recorded incidents I've heard of him always had the same exact

syllables, regardless of decade, audience, and situation.

"Lo SHANta mala ka SIto la SHONta."

The man who supposdely led us into it seemed to be stuck on producing

exactly one sentence. And he was the instructor!

Interpretation of tongues and prophecy.

To fake those would require:

-a willingness to fake it and sound like he wasn't

-an ability to speak with conviction

-an ability to extemporize messages supposedly from God

A number of people have admitted being aware they'd faked it during their

twi time. It's actually easy with the right environment, the right

instruction, and samples of what it's supposed to sound like. Some said

they weren't aware-some of the time-they were faking it, but other times

they were very aware they composed the message.

vpw certainly could have spoken convincingly, and claimed it was from God.

Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom, Discerning of Spirits.

vpw definitely faked Word of Knowledge. First of all, his definition was rote

and didn't match reality- he required it be information that it was PHYSICALLY

IMPOSSIBLE to know by the 5 senses. Rather, it would be information you didn't

know by the 5 senses, whether you could have known it that way or not.

So, he seemed to lack a practical understanding of how it worked, and relied

on Leonard's definition and anecdotes.

vpw made a point of making vague statements without any backing, and led people

to think it was Word of Knowledge or Word of Wisdom when it was actually

ignorant and unwise. He had a hotline to some tinfoil hat conspiracy nuts,

and used their "inside" information to claim he had an inside track to

God Almighty. But he was often wrong with them. His vague, context-less

statements left people thinking he perceived things they didn't, but he

really didn't. He even lacked the conventional wisdom to lay off the

tobacco and alcohol that degraded his body and eventually killed him.

As for discerning of spirits, his vague pronouncements were meant for that

as well, but they were often wrong. Worse, when teaching on the subject,

he used examples that CHARLATANS did using SLEIGHT OF HAND and claimed

they were legitimate supernatural occurrences.

So, it's plain that vpw couldn't discern spirits, either.

Faith, working of miracles, gifts of healings.

In twi, vpw gave many anecdotes about these, but actual eyewitnesses seemed

to be absent. In far-off India, when and where it was impossible to

interview neutral witnesses, vpw was an INCREDIBLE healer who had crowds

FLOCK to him for healing. However, he couldn't even heal crippled people

attending ROA specifically FOR healing, who were convinced he could heal them.

It's also worth noting that he wore glasses as the years passed, and that he

died of a lingering illness. If the man lived up to his own hype on healing,

either was a correctible problem. As for miracles, he was, again, big on

talking about them, but the rank-and-file never actually SAW him perform

any.

So, in conclusion, vpw could have faked it all, and I think the evidence

supports the idea that he DID fake it all.

[Raf]

I haven't finished reading the initial post, but I wanted to make an observation that might be relevant.

VPW, to the best of my memory, never said it was impossible to fake SIT. He said it was impossible to counterfeit. What's the difference, you might ask? Glad you asked.

I want you to assume SIT is real. Just assume it's real. More difficult for me these days than for most of you, but I'll play along:

Speaking in tongues is producing a language. THAT is the genuine.

So my take on what VPW was saying is that if you speak in tongues, you produce a language. And THAT can't be counterfeited.

Taking a more skeptical/logical approach and carrying it to the end: Wierwille was saying that IF you speak in tongues AND you produce a language, THAT is of God because the devil can't counterfeit it. In other words, if your SIT is of the devil, then it's not SIT, according to Wierwille.

I think that's as far as I can take my opinion without going off topic.

[skyrider]

Rather than get bogged down in the speaking in tongues/interpretation argument again

I want to address wierwille's (cough, cough) 'discerning of spirits.'

***********

So, it's plain that vpw couldn't discern spirits, either.

In my 24-year involvement of twi, I never saw wierwille or the Pharisee hierarchy go face-to-spirit

with a "possessed" individual. No naming, no addressing, no confronting and NO casting out of

spirit(s).....even when the claim was made that such an individual WAS POSSESSED.

The most vivid example is.....

In 1980, in the BRC.....a group of six were seated up front to share about their experiences and learning at "The Tracker" seminar where Tom Brown Jr. taught skills of tracking and survival. Remember, from 1976-1981, twi and, specifically, the corps program was heavily engaged in a sub-theme of "mobile abundant living" [MAL-packs] in a subversion of an American overthrow. Thus, some corps and others went to learn from the man who was "the master of tracking" - Tom Brown Jr.

During this BRC gathering, wierwille was seated near the front on the side. All six members had come prepared to share their learning experience to those of us, 90-120 people, in an evening gathering. Going down the line, each shared about ten minutes and how learning is exciting and all. BUT.....this nice, pleasant evening was just about to take a jaded turn as the fourth person shared his experience. He was 8th corps and had a deep enthusiasm for all-things nature, had built a small cabin years before, and an ego to match. Not sure if he spoke longer than his slotted time frame, but superlatives were attached to Tom Brown's skills and teaching. Tom Brown was the master, the man in the spotlight, the man to teach anyone about life and living!!

Well.....wiewille couldn't stand it any longer. With fire in his eyes, he jumped up and unloaded with vehement, frothing-at-the-mouth anger! This 8th corps guy was "POSSESSED," he thundered with a vengence. For a moment, I actually thought wierwille was going to throw a punch and deck the guy. He was that furious. He railed and railed. I found myself in a whirlwind of thoughts, "What the he!! is going on here? Is this guy really possessed? Are we going to see devil spirits cast out? Oh, my!" Wierwille thundered onward....there seemed to be no end.

Finally, the fury stopped as wierwille headed for the backroom of the BRC. The silence in the room was deafening as Johnnie T. came forward to tag-team the meltdown. Another ten minutes of justifying wierwille's fury and Johnnie dismissed us. As I walked back to my unit, I wondered why wierwille didn't cast out any spirits.....IF this guy was indeed possessed. My respect for wierwille had, once again, diminished in my eyes.

Amazingly, the head-to-head confrontation did NOT crush this 8th corps guy nor his testimony....in my opinion. And perhaps, that is why the confrontation lasted so long. WIERWILLE COULD NOT STAND ANOTHER MAN, TOM BROWN, LAUDED AS A GREAT MAN AND TEACHER.

SO.......wierwille yelled and yelled, and johnnie t0wnsend confronted some more

and when it was all said and done, the "POSSESSED GUY" went back to his unit and

we "coexisted with a devil spirit embezzled on hq-grounds. YUK, YUK, YUK.

Go read the gospel records, or the Book of Acts, and SEE THE GENUINE.

Wierwille, T0wnsend, Geer, Martindale, Rivenbark......ppffffftttt.

Maybe, I'll come back to this thread and relate Martindale's yell-fest of

Mich@el F0rt, Howard Allen's son-in-law.....and how "POSSESSED" F0rt was

as the trunk coordinator......AND martindale demoted him and sent him to

be the Indiana Limb Coordinator. Doesn't every state need a "possesso"

as their local leader?

[waysider]

What I find more disturbing is the way he was able to successfully fake compassion and empathy.

Edited July 21, 2015 by waysider

[skyrider]

SO.......wierwille yelled and yelled, and johnnie t0wnsend confronted some more

and when it was all said and done, the "POSSESSED GUY" went back to his unit and

we "coexisted with a devil spirit embezzled on hq-grounds. YUK, YUK, YUK.

As an eye-witness of this account.....

1) Wierwille proclaimed the 8th corps guy POSSESSED

2) Then, vpee glared, yelled and fumed....and yelled some more

3) The guy stood his ground.....eyes focused on vpw

4) Wierwille, wild-eyed, ratcheted up the confrontation

5) Nothing but a yell-fest and wierwille stormed to the backroom

And....THAT folks is discerning of spirits. :evildenk:/>/>/>/>/>/>

Why....it was AMAZING to see "the man of God" in action. :rolleyes:/>/>/>/>/>/>

And further.....since NO ONE could question wierwille's "spirituality"

we had to eat, sleep, and work alongside a corps guy who, supposedly,

had some frikken spirits residing in his brain cells. hahahahahaha

.

Edited July 21, 2015 by skyrider

[waysider]

"And further.....since NO ONE could question wierwille's "spirituality"

we had to eat, sleep, and work alongside a corps guy who, supposedly,

had some frikken spirits residing in his brain cells. hahahahahaha"

....and speaking of devil spirits:

HERE

and HERE

Soooo----According to the Advanced Class materials, we were either "studying at the feet" of a man possessed of devil spirits -or- he was wrong about this and could have been wrong about a lot of things.

Oh, excuse me, did I say "COULD have been wrong"?

Edited July 22, 2015 by waysider

[outandabout]

Rather than get bogged down in the speaking in tongues/interpretation argument again

I want to address wierwille's (cough, cough) 'discerning of spirits.'

***********

In my 24-year involvement of twi, I never saw wierwille or the Pharisee hierarchy go face-to-spirit

with a "possessed" individual. No naming, no addressing, no confronting and NO casting out of

spirit(s).....even when the claim was made that such an individual WAS POSSESSED.

The most vivid example is.....

SO.......wierwille yelled and yelled, and johnnie t0wnsend confronted some more

and when it was all said and done, the "POSSESSED GUY" went back to his unit and

we "coexisted with a devil spirit embezzled on hq-grounds. YUK, YUK, YUK.

Go read the gospel records, or the Book of Acts, and SEE THE GENUINE.

Wierwille, T0wnsend, Geer, Martindale, Rivenbark......ppffffftttt.

Maybe, I'll come back to this thread and relate Martindale's yell-fest of

Mich@el F0rt, Howard Allen's son-in-law.....and how "POSSESSED" F0rt was

as the trunk coordinator......AND martindale demoted him and sent him to

be the Indiana Limb Coordinator. Doesn't every state need a "possesso"

as their local leader? :anim-smile:/>

.

I think Martindale was possessed.

[Steve Lortz]

In the foundational class, Wierwille mentioned a spirit named "Mr. Fletcher." Mr. Fletcher was the supposed "spirit guide" of Arthur Ford. Arthur Ford was exposed as a fraud. Either Wierwille himself did not believe what he was teaching, or he was taken in by Ford's fraud. I think Wierwille didn't really believe in "devil spirits" (a phrase NEVER found in the Word of God), because it's hard for me to see how he would have taken them so lightly in his own life if he thought they were real.

Love,

Steve

[WordWolf]

In the foundational class, Wierwille mentioned a spirit named "Mr. Fletcher." Mr. Fletcher was the supposed "spirit guide" of Arthur Ford. Arthur Ford was exposed as a fraud. Either Wierwille himself did not believe what he was teaching, or he was taken in by Ford's fraud. I think Wierwille didn't really believe in "devil spirits" (a phrase NEVER found in the Word of God), because it's hard for me to see how he would have taken them so lightly in his own life if he thought they were real.

Love,

Steve

That's a good point.

It is difficult, at times, when trying to separate exactly what vpw really

believed and what he merely professed. He explained the concept of

"mental assent", where one holds an idea but never acts on it- and he was

well-versed in the concept.

We know that vpw chose ministry as a career path, and one no different from

show business or business administration. He LATER built up that he was

impressed with holy vocations, but we know he didn't have those convictions

through his entire schooling. By his own admission, he was working as a

pastor for a year and doing weekly sermons for a year BEFORE BELIEVING THE

BIBLE WAS THE WORD OF GOD. So, he had no trouble preaching what he didn't

believe. He did it lots of other times as well- like when telling people

not to fool around outside of marriage WHEN IN PUBLIC but RECOMMENDING to

others that they should fool around outside of marriage WHEN IN PRIVATE.

We know his approach to "discerning of spirits" was partly rote repetition

and spitting back the contents of books like "Angels of Light" and others,

and partly designating targets from afar and announcing they were under

demonic influence (a practice not that different from "Angels of Light".)

When approaching the work of CHARLATANS exercising sleight-of-hand to

perform "supernatural" feats, he pronounced them as genuine spiritual

phenomenon, albeit evil ones. He even claimed to have attended at least

1 seance and having "shaking hands" with a materialized spirit,

describing the sensation later. "Ever shake hands with someone who doesn't

shake hands?" Either all of that was ripped off of someone else's account

(common practice for vpw), or he was able to attend a seance, and have someone

do all sorts of demonic supernatural phenomena in front of him, all with him

either UNABLE to do anything to disrupt it from his chair

(a spiritual weakling of the first order),

or UNWILLING to do anything to disrupt it from his chair

(demonstrating spiritual sloth and apathy and a weakness for sin of that type.)

So, in this, was he a major liar and deceiver, a spiritual FRAUD?

Or was he a spiritual WEAKLING?

Or was he spiritually bankrupt of caring about the things of God even when

an injustice was literally in his face?

That's all the possibilities, and all of them are bad.

(Those who object to those possibilities, I point out that you have to

find another possibility that actually can explain what did and did not happen

as opposed to just disliking the options.

We had that once where there were 2 options, both bad, and a poster responded

by calling me the devil and refusing to refute the facts AND the conclusions.)

[skyrider]

So, in this, was he a major liar and deceiver, a spiritual FRAUD?

Or was he a spiritual WEAKLING?

Or was he spiritually bankrupt of caring about the things of God even when

an injustice was literally in his face?

That's all the possibilities, and all of them are bad.

Wierwille....up close and personal, was a deceiver, a spiritual FRAUD.

My eye-witness account, as noted above on this thread......was during my INTERIM CORPS YEAR.

Having observed this "discerning of spirits" by vpw, I was greatly disappointed and it

tarnished any respect that I'd built up for the man.

What about all the other corps grads and clergy that were EXITING twi?

Did they, too, see some of these things?

Did others start seeing wierwille as a deceiver?

I think so.

Heck, I'm sure that I wasn't the ONLY ONE who stood at the roa

and wondered WHY WIERWILLE WAS STANDING AT THE MICROPHONE

DICTATING ADV CLASS GRADS TO COME FORWARD AND MINISTER

HEALING TO OTHERS???

[waysider]

"Heck, I'm sure that I wasn't the ONLY ONE who stood at the roa

and wondered WHY WIERWILLE WAS STANDING AT THE MICROPHONE

DICTATING ADV CLASS GRADS TO COME FORWARD AND MINISTER

HEALING TO OTHERS??? "

Count me in as being among the others who wondered. We had been taught that if God wanted you to do something, He would tell you first, not someone else. I wasn't getting any "cookie from the cookie jar", as the saying goes, so I didn't report for duty. When the service was over, I second guessed myself. Had I been wrong to defy the Man of God? What if someone suffered needlessly because I had lingered in the crowd?

I carried that guilt and self-doubt for a long, long time until I came to GSC and began to see what really happened.

[skyrider]

I carried that guilt and self-doubt for a long, long time until I came to GSC and began to see what really happened.

Yeah....guilt is an ugly burden to bear.

At that roa, I stood there aghast at wierwille.

WHY wasn't he out front DOING the ministering? He's the, supposedly,

"man of God" and all.

Oh, that's right.......LEAD FROM BEHIND the microphone.

Hypocrite.

[Steve Lortz]

If I'm remembering properly, during the advanced class Wierwille talked about going to all sorts of spiritualist demonstrations and activities where God taught him a heck of a lot of stuff about "the spirit realm." Then he told us not to try to do it ourselves, that God had been protecting him so he could learn things and teach us, but since we had the benefit of Wierwille's experiences, God wouldn't protect us the way God had protected him...

Did anybody else come away with that impression? Or am I retrojecting?

Love,

Steve

(Not to derail the topic, but I've been trying to remember what "the 16 keys to walking in the spirit" were. If somebody has a copy and can post them somewhere, I'd appreciate it! Thanks)

Edited July 23, 2015 by Steve Lortz

[WordWolf]

(Here's what I remember offhand, in no particular order...

To receive revelation, you must first be meek.

Stand fast on what you have received. Don't wait for God to repeat Himself, obey the first time.

Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation.

Study God's Word daily. What you can know, God expects you to know.

Travel light.

Don't argue with God.

Inspired action and/or utterance may be required.

Revelation may come at unlikely places or unlikely times.

When you stumble, get back up. Walking requires a learning process.

Sometimes it is necessary to put unbelievers out of the room.

Revelation given once may change.

Revelation given twice is established.

Don't be deceived by the 5 senses.

Action precedes results. Believing without works is not believing.

Wait until "green light" revelation.

Do not tell all that you know. Receive the word of wisdom.)

Make a new thread if you want any more.

[WordWolf]

If I'm remembering properly, during the advanced class Wierwille talked about going to all sorts of spiritualist demonstrations and activities where God taught him a heck of a lot of stuff about "the spirit realm." Then he told us not to try to do it ourselves, that God had been protecting him so he could learn things and teach us, but since we had the benefit of Wierwille's experiences, God wouldn't protect us the way God had protected him...

Did anybody else come away with that impression? Or am I retrojecting?

Love,

Steve

(Not to derail the topic, but I've been trying to remember what "the 16 keys to walking in the spirit" were. If somebody has a copy and can post them somewhere, I'd appreciate it! Thanks)

You're not retrojecting. (I don't think; I can't see you through the screen.)

vpw was always fond of ONE standard for HIMSELF, and ANOTHER standard for EVERYONE ELSE.

Simply put, he apparently thought he was better than everyone else and deserved

better than everyone else.

In this particular case, it gave him the luxury of SUPPOSEDLY knowing his stuff more than us,

and to prevent us from doing our own investigations and finding out how full of baloney

he was in his retold tales, told as if they were HIS stories and not those of others.

[krys]

oops

Edited July 23, 2015 by krys

[skyrider]

To receive revelation, you must first be meek.

<snip>

Don't be deceived by the 5 senses.

17) Don't be carried away by the sleight of wierwille and his cunning craftiness

whereby he lies in wait to deceive [Eph 4:14].

Looking back at those 16 keys......now seem so trivial and patchwork. Really?

It's a set of 16 and NO more? The list looks like it was put together for 3rd-graders.

How many of us EXPECTED to see much more "hands-on" at the advanced class?

How many of us were disappointed by all the Old Testament reading at the adv class?

Heck, I thought this twi thingy was (cough, cough) the new dynamic church?

Not once did wierwille come front and center and REALLY TEACH the other 6 manifestations.

In fact, the only stuff we heard directly related to wierwille was dust-covered,

no-eye-witnesses, in far-away India or such......from a long, long time ago. Yeah, riiiight.

Can you say cunning craftiness whereby he lies in wait to deceive?

Stop and think about it.....many of US left the advanced class perplexed deep down.

I was disappointed. The way it was handled seemed off-kilter. The afternoon twigs

where information, like the 16 keys, was rehashed over and over.....yet, no questions

or deep dialogue. We were railroaded to follow the wierwille way.

That was at the adv class level.

Same deal with the corps "training."

If the wierwille gig was SO SPIRITUAL......why were so many slipping away?

BECAUSE....imo....along the way, people were sniffing out the deception, the hypocrisy,

the abuse and exploitation, in essence THE SUBTLE POWER OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE.

My gut instincts told me to bolt......time and time again.

I should have followed the 17th key, as listed above, and exited.

16 keys enshrined in twi lore.

I think there's 40 keys.

[WordWolf]

17) Don't be carried away by the sleight of wierwille and his cunning craftiness

whereby he lies in wait to deceive [Eph 4:14].

Looking back at those 16 keys......now seem so trivial and patchwork. Really?

It's a set of 16 and NO more? The list looks like it was put together for 3rd-graders.

It does, and some are demonstrably wrong.

(Someone who care can start a thread on them.)

Even cg added to them, saying vpw said we knew 16 and taught those, and since we knew

20 at that time, he would teach those. He also rephrased a few in the process

so they made more sense, then later made more tweaks that made less sense.

He added stuff like "revelation given once is specific to the place and time

it is given." Yes, nothing truly deep, nothing "KEY."

I would accept them being called "rules of thumb" and open them up to discussion.

For one thing, the supposed supporting verses usually DIDN'T. That was obvious

with the "SIT daily is required for revelation" one, since it's not required

at all, and never was required, and no verse even suggests it.

How many of us EXPECTED to see much more "hands-on" at the advanced class?

How many of us were disappointed by all the Old Testament reading at the adv class?

Heck, I thought this twi thingy was (cough, cough) the new dynamic church?

Not once did wierwille come front and center and REALLY TEACH the other 6 manifestations.

In fact, the only stuff we heard directly related to wierwille was dust-covered,

no-eye-witnesses, in far-away India or such......from a long, long time ago. Yeah, riiiight.

Can you say cunning craftiness whereby he lies in wait to deceive?

Stop and think about it.....many of US left the advanced class perplexed deep down.

I was disappointed. The way it was handled seemed off-kilter. The afternoon twigs

where information, like the 16 keys, was rehashed over and over.....yet, no questions

or deep dialogue. We were railroaded to follow the wierwille way.

That was at the adv class level.

Same deal with the corps "training."

All the hype about "signs, miracles, wonders."

How about THIS, even one time?

"All right class, we've been discussing Gifts of Healings for several days, with

examples from Scripture, modern anecdotes, and explanations in the modern

vernacular. However, nothing takes the place of practice. So, we have brought

in these volunteers from the local hospital. I have explained the situation,

how we can't promise we will heal them fully, but that we will at least do

no harm and they may be healed, in whole or in part. I will demonstrate with the

first person, then I will take volunteers and guide each through work with one

of the others until we are done."

Now THAT would be "Advanced" teaching of healing. A man who supposedly, healed

THRONGS of COMPLETE STRANGERS and non-Christians should have found that a

piece of cake to perform.

Too bad he was a fraud when it came to healing and miracles.

[skyrider]

Okay....now let me give you MY PERSONAL ACCOUNT of wierwille's adeptness

of word of knowledge and word of wisdom....ie these two revelation manifestations.

Wierwille was just another blowhard. When I met with him after my deprogramming experience,

he "prophesied" that both of my parents would be dead in 5 YEARS [by 1986] for this evil act.

Sheesh....here, vpee was himself dead in four years and my parents were still around for

another 22 yrs (dad) and 29 yrs (mom).

So....did wierwille receive word of knowledge that my parents were going to die

suddenly after this? No. And further, he specified that they'd be dead IN 5 YEARS.

Wrong again.

Deut 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Yeah, wierwille hid behind that all-inclusive title "the man of God"......a cunning craftiness move.

And, vpw was certainly speaking "presumptuously" [showing overconfidence, arrogance or effrontery].

Wierwille was a blowhard, a braggart, and a deceiver. Perhaps, he just wanted to instill fear into

me so that I wouldn't even consider what the deprogrammers told me.

So, from my own experience.......wierwille gave me a quack-prophecy.

The man was a spiritual hitchhiker......riding on the coattails of other mens' ministries

and biblical work.

[skyrider]

I will demonstrate with the first person, then I will take volunteers and guide

each through work with one of the others until we are done."

Now THAT would be "Advanced" teaching of healing.

.....I remember someone telling about P@t Ly-nn

and how, after a meeting/fellowship, that she asked if anyone

needed ministered to. Well, about 12-15 people came forward

and she laid hands on each and every one and ministered healing.

And, weren't there several instantaneous healings too?

That's what I recall.

Yet, with wierwille, t0wnsend, lcm, geer, rosie......ppfffaauuuuds.

[Bolshevik]

My link

Maybe it was mentioned already. I think a lot who thought they were receiving revelation or manifesting spirit merely didn't understand naturally occurring phenomena common to everyone. Intuition is one of those things.

I think that's been gone over with SIT. Show an MRI study on SIT to a wayfer and get one interpretation, show it to an outie and get another.

[Rocky]

Okay....now let me give you MY PERSONAL ACCOUNT of wierwille's adeptness

of word of knowledge and word of wisdom....ie these two revelation manifestations.

So....did wierwille receive word of knowledge that my parents were going to die

suddenly after this? No. And further, he specified that they'd be dead IN 5 YEARS.

Wrong again.

Deut 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Yeah, wierwille hid behind that all-inclusive title "the man of God"......a cunning craftiness move.

And, vpw was certainly speaking "presumptuously" [showing overconfidence, arrogance or effrontery].

Wierwille was a blowhard, a braggart, and a deceiver. Perhaps, he just wanted to instill fear into

me so that I wouldn't even consider what the deprogrammers told me.

So, from my own experience.......wierwille gave me a quack-prophecy.

The man was a spiritual hitchhiker......riding on the coattails of other mens' ministries

and biblical work.

He was also a sociopath and a psychopath... and I think we all know he was quite the narcissist.

My link

Maybe it was mentioned already. I think a lot who thought they were receiving revelation or manifesting spirit merely didn't understand naturally occurring phenomena common to everyone. Intuition is one of those things.

I think that's been gone over with SIT. Show an MRI study on SIT to a wayfer and get one interpretation, show it to an outie and get another.

I distinctly remember after taking the AC getting what I now understand to be intuition. That probably goes hand in hand with sunesis (not the greasespot member using that name).

[skyrider]

He was also a sociopath and a psychopath... and I think we all know he was quite the narcissist.

Yep.....the man had his own agenda.

The deduction was quite simple, actually. Wierwille uttered a "prophecy"

and it did NOT come to pass. The man was NOT speaking "for the Lord"...

and therefore, was NOT "the man of God." At least, NOT to me.

Then......wierwille dies of cancer FOUR YEARS LATER.

And, geer comes along in 1986 saying all the corps have abandoned THE MAN OF GOD

[blah, blah, blah]. Another narcissist jr. arrives on the scene trying to guilt

us with the "get on the wierwille-adulation band wagon" AGAIN.

Just didn't buy into that crap for one new York minute.

[Bolshevik]

. . .

I distinctly remember after taking the AC getting what I now understand to be intuition. That probably goes hand in hand with sunesis (not the greasespot member using that name).

or Baader-Meihof?

[WordWolf]

Yep.....the man had his own agenda.

The deduction was quite simple, actually. Wierwille uttered a "prophecy"

and it did NOT come to pass. The man was NOT speaking "for the Lord"...

and therefore, was NOT "the man of God." At least, NOT to me.

Then......wierwille dies of cancer FOUR YEARS LATER.

And, geer comes along in 1986 saying all the corps have abandoned THE MAN OF GOD

[blah, blah, blah]. Another narcissist jr. arrives on the scene trying to guilt

us with the "get on the wierwille-adulation band wagon" AGAIN.

Just didn't buy into that crap for one new York minute.

There's a certain irony in that.

In the Mosaic Law, a supposed prophet who misses by ONE PROPHECY

had, by definition, not spoken from THE LORD, and was to be

put to death. vpw spoke a prophecy to you from his arrogance,

and dropped dead a few years later. In fact, the cancer was already

attacking cells of his body when he said it...