I didn't mind doing the work but was upset because others should have helped, the family especially. Being required to get up early and the rest of the family sleeping in did not set well with both my brother and I - that crap sat with us for - I guess, all time.
So when the branck leader talked about the tightness of a family, I knew she did not have a clue.
After that WOW year, I stayed there to continue spreading the word even though all the good folks were gone (Corp, etc), either way, in my mind was that I would continue in the mission but would never crap on folks.
Then, we got a new set of WOWs in a couple of cities within 30 miles of us with a 5th corp branch leader that I had to answer to, things did not go well between her and I. Needless to say, in here WOW "families", there were no classes ran - yet she was able to break up at least one marriage of a WOW (sex with the guy); luckily, I turned down her advances, maybe had I succumbed, that marriage would not have been attacked.
Bottom line here: Way Corp on the field are predators, complete power and minuns at their beckoned service.
It's not really off-topic. It demonstrates that there was a backstory, an underbelly to the organization. What you witnessed was a fairly common representation of accounts we have heard from many other participants. Personally, when I saw this sort of thing going on, I thought it must be an isolated incident(s). In reality, it was going on throughout the organization.
The ultimate goal of our mission was to get people to take the PFAL class, not "bring them back to God". It even says that much in the Witnessing and Undershepharding syllabus. (page 16, if I remember correctly.) We weren't missionaries, engaging in some noble, selfless cause. We were an unpaid sales force, charged with selling a product. It's really just that simple. Sure, it's embarrassing to admit we were played but it's also folly to construct a mental fantasy to justify what we did.
Power in the hands of nymphomaniac and sex hungry corp folks is not folly, it's worse, it's evil. I can understand the use of the term folly waysider since that term in the age written held a more nefarious conotation.
One promise kept by the twi leadership was that us WOWs on the field would be able to receive all the seminars/classes at no cost; right, it didn't cost us anything. If you worked and then had to prep the location for the class it was a bit difficult to totally focus on the class being tired and worn to the thread.
At no cost: now there's something you can take to the bank.
This is probably covered elsewhere but here are the questions: the college in Kansas (Emporium) and Gunderson in Colorado, were any loans taken out on those (I thought so about Gunderson). Either way, it was our abundant sharing that bought those properties - no wonder we should not have taken out loans to buy our own properties, then we might not tithe as much.
Irony of ironies, the loan taken out to buy the Emporia KS campus is documented in Uncle Harry's book I believe. Or maybe Mrs VPW's BATS book. Actually that would make an awesome study for a twig presentation - "A Study of Debt" from the founding two Sec/Treasurers of TWI as seen through Way biographical books. I don't believe a loan was obtained to buy the Gunnison CO property. Oh, and then there's a discussion to be had about how much was lost in the sale of each of these properties - I want to hear that discussion from the Sec/Treas who would turn the lights in the bathroom off on you all the time.
Irony of ironies, the loan taken out to buy the Emporia KS campus is documented in Uncle Harry's book I believe. Or maybe Mrs VPW's BATS book. Actually that would make an awesome study for a twig presentation - "A Study of Debt" from the founding two Sec/Treasurers of TWI as seen through Way biographical books. I don't believe a loan was obtained to buy the Gunnison CO property. Oh, and then there's a discussion to be had about how much was lost in the sale of each of these properties - I want to hear that discussion from the Sec/Treas who would turn the lights in the bathroom off on you all the time.
TWI still operates the Gunnison property, regardless of who holds legal ownership. A couple of my 9th corpse bruddahs visited it this summer and took some pics because one of them knew somebody that was in charge at the time.
The property is impeccably well kept, not as rustic as it was back in the day and... hauntingly vacant.
Yeah, and if you go there in the dead of winter....
I get the sense that being there would have the same vibes
as the vacant Colorado hotel in The Shining
Those two little girls represent Rosie and Don-na.
.
is bob moneyhands still there writing "redrum" on the windows as he wanders the halls all by himself and schedules security for the one visitor this month?
TWI still operates the Gunnison property, regardless of who holds legal ownership. A couple of my 9th corpse bruddahs visited it this summer and took some pics because one of them knew somebody that was in charge at the time.
The property is impeccably well kept, not as rustic as it was back in the day and... hauntingly vacant.
yeah they own it. i think they paid cash for the land and some old buildings on the property, then ed h*bbs company built all the log home structures. vp tried to get him to donate all the work and ed told him he learned from his class a workman is worthy of his hire and he made twi pay for all of it. even in all the flimflam there were/are people in twi with vestiges of common sense.
Power in the hands of nymphomaniac and sex hungry corp folks is not folly, it's worse, it's evil.
i agree. amazingly enough the entire time i was in twi other than the public scandals i personally never ran into this. i heard some rumors but by the time you heard the rumor it usually was damage control after they got kicked out or something.
so i discounted it. i never thought it was woven into the upper layers of leadership. thought never even crossed my mind. because it was hidden, even the scandals i didn't react with a normal indignancy. mentally i was like the guy made a mistake. i was pretty naieve and blind.
yeah they own it. i think they paid cash for the land and some old buildings on the property, then ed h*bbs company built all the log home structures. vp tried to get him to donate all the work and ed told him he learned from his class a workman is worthy of his hire and he made twi pay for all of it. even in all the flimflam there were/are people in twi with vestiges of common sense.
This was wierwille's lifelong modus operandi....trying to get FREE LABOR & STUFF
1) In 1961,62.....didn't howard, and others, travel from Kentucky to build the BRC on weekends?
2) Wierwille sets up a work/study program for inrez corps....lots of free labor at emporia campus
3) Way Builder-types were vp's & howard's "buddies" during those building years
4) Plenty of inrez-corps carpenters/plumbers/electrians were sent to Camp G. and LEAD hdqtrs to work
5) Wierwille encouraged sunset corps to volunteer their work/services at root locales
6) Dorothy and Rhoda were held up as examples.....not retiring and working into their 80s(?)
7) Corps Week was established to bring in corps grads - TO WORK AND SET UP FOR ROCK OF AGES
8) Anyone who thinks that Corps Week was to further teach the corps......hahahaha
9) And, you corps grads better NOT skip out on the roa and go home early (spit spit)
10) Wierwille wanted elderly followers to invest in cabin at CampG [at death, twi gets possession]
11) People like Dr. R@wlins were held up as examples of living/applying biblical truths/abundance
12) Yet, R@wlins and other "celebs" were successful LONG BEFORE PFAL/TWI.
13) Those with money were given access to Trustees and privileges
14) Even Way Prod talent was manipulated and exploited until no longer deemed needed
That's the pattern that was set all through Corps training: 4 hours "study" which could be interrupted at will if something more important was mandated (like killing chickens) and four hours work experience (tidying the pens in the drawers or doing the washing up).
What got me more was the inability to participate in RoA at all. It was really after your time, Sky, but it was basically 18 hrs hard work and little time to socialise with one's spiritual partners, friends and whoever. Specially hard for internationals like me - when the people had come thousands of miles on expensive overseas flights and I couldn't get time off to spend with them. I was happy to do the work assigned to me and to serve people, but a few hours off to hang out with "my" visitors would have been nice.
And I didn't get much opportunity to "enjoy" Corps week either. I often wasn't released from my normal work tasks to participate. Don't suppose I missed much, though.
That's the pattern that was set all through Corps training: 4 hours "study" which could be interrupted at will if something more important was mandated (like killing chickens) and four hours work experience (tidying the pens in the drawers or doing the washing up).
What got me more was the inability to participate in RoA at all. It was really after your time, Sky, but it was basically 18 hrs hard work and little time to socialise with one's spiritual partners, friends and whoever. Specially hard for internationals like me - when the people had come thousands of miles on expensive overseas flights and I couldn't get time off to spend with them. I was happy to do the work assigned to me and to serve people, but a few hours off to hang out with "my" visitors would have been nice.
And I didn't get much opportunity to "enjoy" Corps week either. I often wasn't released from my normal work tasks to participate. Don't suppose I missed much, though.
Twinky, on the contrary.......with regards to roa, nothing was "really after my time"
because I was there thru the end of the roa era, namely August 1995.
After the exodus of nearly 80% of corps and followers [ie -- the "loyalty letter brouhaha"]
each subsequent rock of ages [1990-1995] the major workload that befell to those corps and staff
remaining in twi was brutal. Yes, many of us were working double shifts and were soliciting our
faithful advanced class grads in our states to step up their roa workload, as well. At the time,
I was a limb coordinator and worked all day....then had to put on my suit and usher in the Big Top
each evening. I absolutely loathed this task. Here I was, having grown up on a farm, and was
ordered to stand in this glorified cornfield...in a hot, humid tent...in August...in a suit!!!
For those who missed this *turning point*.......here is what happened.
At the end of twi's Placement Meetings in March 1995, martindale decreed that ALL active way corps
would be put on full-time staff in August [1995] and would need to meet with twi's Personnel Director
[br@d Th0rpe] at a scheduled time during Corps Week to determine need/salary. This decree put a
thousand things in motion and thousands of heads spinning. :biglaugh:/>/>/>
And, here's my "Aha moment"......
The first Corps Meeting of the calendar year, in September.....martindale spent the majority of this
phone hook-up to all corps NOW ON TWI'S PAYROLL, to specify all that this entailed and DID NOT entail.
In other words, he made it clear that only a few SELECTED corps would be attending the Advanced Class
Special in Dallas that year. If you aren't selected, then you are NOT WELCOME. You are now on staff
and we want you to stay in your area. AND FURTHER.....WE ARE CANCELLING THE ROCK OF AGES FROM HENCEFORTH.
The whole backstory on the 1995 Rock of Ages was an out-of-control environment, teens up all hours and
hanging at the gazebo, and homo spirit infiltration [supposedly, :rolleyes:/>/>/> ] and the last ROA was
turned into "a class setting" with basically martindale teaching every night. Stiff. Rigid. Boring.
BUT.....imo, the REAL reason that martindale was cancelling the rock of ages festival was
because NOW that way corps were on the payroll, ALL EXPENSES INCURRED [travel, lodging, food, car expense,
etc] would be on twi's doorstep. Now, when the corps traveled.....twi's petty cash accounts were running
and needed reimbursed. Same with corps family and KIDS....they've got to eat too. No longer was the
rock of ages going to be a cash cow for twi.
I think martindale was a little late in figuring all this out......and his "all full-time corps revelation"
started dying before it hardly had time to breathe.
And, without way corps working at the roa? No roa. It was THAT simple. :anim-smile:/>/>/>
I'd been banished by then. I never got there in 1995.
So... a RoA with "real" (ahem) d.s. infiltration. (1) where was the BoDs' "believing" to keep these d.s. away in the first place? (2) why didn't the BoD or one or more of them simply banish the d.s.? You know, a real exorcism.
Ah heck. Much easier for the BoD to banish all believers, rather than banish a few d.s.
Holding a RoA might also have exposed the dramatic fall in numbers. If the BigTop was as empty as the auditorium is now, who'd want to be there at all?
But you could well be right, Sky, with your assessment that the cost of bringing all the WC in wouldn't be cheap (even if you do have$65m in the bank).
ordered to stand in this glorified cornfield...in a hot, humid tent...in August...in a suit!!!
I wasn't the Corps, but I never understood the "need" for you guys to "suit up" in what was often sweltering heat, ame even more attractive by the frequent rains
For those who missed this *turning point*.......here is what happened.
At the end of twi's Placement Meetings in March 1995, martindale decreed that ALL active way corps
would be put on full-time staff in August [1995] and would need to meet with twi's Personnel Director
[br@d Th0rpe] at a scheduled time during Corps Week to determine need/salary. This decree put a
thousand things in motion and thousands of heads spinning. :biglaugh:/>/>/>/>
One of many idiot decisions not even close to thought-through. Not only were the financial implications ignored, but most of the Way Corps were used to actually working. Our local guy was a drywaller, now turned into a full-time desk jockey, organizing witnessing expeditions while the rest of us were still working
The whole backstory on the 1995 Rock of Ages was an out-of-control environment, teens up all hours and
hanging at the gazebo,
In other words, like every other ROA
and homo spirit infiltration [supposedly, :rolleyes:/>/>/>/> ]
Yikes!
and the last ROA was
turned into "a class setting" with basically martindale teaching every night. Stiff. Rigid. Boring.
"The Class on Living Victoriously"...no, it was "The Class on Living Sanctified"...or something...
What was worse than the "class" atmosphere at night was required class sessions in the morning as well, with little free time to socialize with friends from other states
BUT.....imo, the REAL reason that martindale was cancelling the rock of ages festival was
because NOW that way corps were on the payroll, ALL EXPENSES INCURRED [travel, lodging, food, car expense,
etc] would be on twi's doorstep. Now, when the corps traveled.....twi's petty cash accounts were running
and needed reimbursed. Same with corps family and KIDS....they've got to eat too. No longer was the
rock of ages going to be a cash cow for twi.
I think martindale was a little late in figuring all this out......and his "all full-time corps revelation"
started dying before it hardly had time to breathe.
Anyone who had been through a high school economics class would have been able to figure this out
I was at that ROA...living in a flooded tent with my wife and four kids as the whole area flooded. More revelation
I wasn't the Corps, but I never understood the "need" for you guys to "suit up" in what was often sweltering heat, ame even more attractive by the frequent rains
One of many idiot decisions not even close to thought-through. Not only were the financial implications ignored, but most of the Way Corps were used to actually working. Our local guy was a drywaller, now turned into a full-time desk jockey, organizing witnessing expeditions while the rest of us were still working
In other words, like every other ROA :anim-smile:/>
Yikes!
"The Class on Living Victoriously"...no, it was "The Class on Living Sanctified"...or something...
What was worse than the "class" atmosphere at night was required class sessions in the morning as well, with little free time to socialize with friends from other states
Anyone who had been through a high school economics class would have been able to figure this out :cryhug_1_:/>
I was at that ROA...living in a flooded tent with my wife and four kids as the whole area flooded. More revelation
Oakspear......well, "the reason for corps [ushers] to suit up in the big top tent" was because
[drum roll.......] the word was being taught and wierwille was marketing a product.
He wasn't concerned about OUR comfort.....or the logic of an August sweltering tent. Wierwille
set the precedent of "being your best for God" and everyone fell in line.
Oh, and.....with regards to the teens hanging out late at the roa gazebo.
Well, in 1995 some said it was extremely rowdy and music playing....AND disrespect
for towards the bless patrol folk to tried to tamper down the noise. But also....
so many PARENTS [corps and adv class grads] had worked their butts off for days
and were sound asleep. What was wrong with those parents?
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skyrider
Thankfully, our two boys never had to run the gauntlet of classes and twi-indoctrination where there is NO LIGHT at the end of such striving. Where would our lives be today if we'd kept prevailing
skyrider
Thankfully, I'll never know what life would have been like by staying on twi's dirt road. I don't have that Butterfly Effect....[2004 movie] to compare alternate realities, or how things would have
Rocky
I continue to appreciate your insight on the inner workings of twi. As they say... spot on. In every instance.
MRAP
I didn't mind doing the work but was upset because others should have helped, the family especially. Being required to get up early and the rest of the family sleeping in did not set well with both my brother and I - that crap sat with us for - I guess, all time.
So when the branck leader talked about the tightness of a family, I knew she did not have a clue.
After that WOW year, I stayed there to continue spreading the word even though all the good folks were gone (Corp, etc), either way, in my mind was that I would continue in the mission but would never crap on folks.
Then, we got a new set of WOWs in a couple of cities within 30 miles of us with a 5th corp branch leader that I had to answer to, things did not go well between her and I. Needless to say, in here WOW "families", there were no classes ran - yet she was able to break up at least one marriage of a WOW (sex with the guy); luckily, I turned down her advances, maybe had I succumbed, that marriage would not have been attacked.
Bottom line here: Way Corp on the field are predators, complete power and minuns at their beckoned service.
Sorry folks, once again, off topic.
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waysider
"Sorry folks, once again, off topic."
It's not really off-topic. It demonstrates that there was a backstory, an underbelly to the organization. What you witnessed was a fairly common representation of accounts we have heard from many other participants. Personally, when I saw this sort of thing going on, I thought it must be an isolated incident(s). In reality, it was going on throughout the organization.
The ultimate goal of our mission was to get people to take the PFAL class, not "bring them back to God". It even says that much in the Witnessing and Undershepharding syllabus. (page 16, if I remember correctly.) We weren't missionaries, engaging in some noble, selfless cause. We were an unpaid sales force, charged with selling a product. It's really just that simple. Sure, it's embarrassing to admit we were played but it's also folly to construct a mental fantasy to justify what we did.
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MRAP
Power in the hands of nymphomaniac and sex hungry corp folks is not folly, it's worse, it's evil. I can understand the use of the term folly waysider since that term in the age written held a more nefarious conotation.
One promise kept by the twi leadership was that us WOWs on the field would be able to receive all the seminars/classes at no cost; right, it didn't cost us anything. If you worked and then had to prep the location for the class it was a bit difficult to totally focus on the class being tired and worn to the thread.
At no cost: now there's something you can take to the bank.
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skyrider
All the dots connect back to wierwille.
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chockfull
Irony of ironies, the loan taken out to buy the Emporia KS campus is documented in Uncle Harry's book I believe. Or maybe Mrs VPW's BATS book. Actually that would make an awesome study for a twig presentation - "A Study of Debt" from the founding two Sec/Treasurers of TWI as seen through Way biographical books. I don't believe a loan was obtained to buy the Gunnison CO property. Oh, and then there's a discussion to be had about how much was lost in the sale of each of these properties - I want to hear that discussion from the Sec/Treas who would turn the lights in the bathroom off on you all the time.
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Twinky
"Penny rich and pound foolish," waysider.
Save money on pens and toilet paper, and blow it on vehicles, fancy clothes and Drambuie.
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Rocky
TWI still operates the Gunnison property, regardless of who holds legal ownership. A couple of my 9th corpse bruddahs visited it this summer and took some pics because one of them knew somebody that was in charge at the time.
The property is impeccably well kept, not as rustic as it was back in the day and... hauntingly vacant.
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skyrider
Yeah, and if you go there in the dead of winter....
I get the sense that being there would have the same vibes
as the vacant Colorado hotel in The Shining
Those two little girls represent Rosie and Don-na.
.
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Rocky
After reading King's time travel novel last winter, I've become a fan. He's brilliant. :evildenk:/>
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chockfull
is bob moneyhands still there writing "redrum" on the windows as he wanders the halls all by himself and schedules security for the one visitor this month?
yeah they own it. i think they paid cash for the land and some old buildings on the property, then ed h*bbs company built all the log home structures. vp tried to get him to donate all the work and ed told him he learned from his class a workman is worthy of his hire and he made twi pay for all of it. even in all the flimflam there were/are people in twi with vestiges of common sense.
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chockfull
i agree. amazingly enough the entire time i was in twi other than the public scandals i personally never ran into this. i heard some rumors but by the time you heard the rumor it usually was damage control after they got kicked out or something.
so i discounted it. i never thought it was woven into the upper layers of leadership. thought never even crossed my mind. because it was hidden, even the scandals i didn't react with a normal indignancy. mentally i was like the guy made a mistake. i was pretty naieve and blind.
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skyrider
This was wierwille's lifelong modus operandi....trying to get FREE LABOR & STUFF
1) In 1961,62.....didn't howard, and others, travel from Kentucky to build the BRC on weekends?
2) Wierwille sets up a work/study program for inrez corps....lots of free labor at emporia campus
3) Way Builder-types were vp's & howard's "buddies" during those building years
4) Plenty of inrez-corps carpenters/plumbers/electrians were sent to Camp G. and LEAD hdqtrs to work
5) Wierwille encouraged sunset corps to volunteer their work/services at root locales
6) Dorothy and Rhoda were held up as examples.....not retiring and working into their 80s(?)
7) Corps Week was established to bring in corps grads - TO WORK AND SET UP FOR ROCK OF AGES
8) Anyone who thinks that Corps Week was to further teach the corps......hahahaha
9) And, you corps grads better NOT skip out on the roa and go home early (spit spit)
10) Wierwille wanted elderly followers to invest in cabin at CampG [at death, twi gets possession]
11) People like Dr. R@wlins were held up as examples of living/applying biblical truths/abundance
12) Yet, R@wlins and other "celebs" were successful LONG BEFORE PFAL/TWI.
13) Those with money were given access to Trustees and privileges
14) Even Way Prod talent was manipulated and exploited until no longer deemed needed
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WordWolf
15) Convinced someone to directly plagiarize the Dale Carnegie
training course, so that they could run it for the Corps
regularly without paying the legally-required royalties
to the company.
16) Always ran the courses to make a direct profit.
17) Always charged retail for everything despite low overhead
and doing everything in-house.
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skyrider
Bill M@ize
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outandabout
"There are people in the Corps who won't stay in the Corps because they haven't developed the ability to GET THINGS DONE!"
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skyrider
If I remember correctly.....1976 and 1977 Rock of Ages were in Sidney, OH and wierwille
made the decision to "bring the Rock of Ages home to The Way International grounds."
So, August of 1978 was the beginning of the big festivals at hdqtrs.
Not sure if Corps Week was implemented in 1978, but definitely by 1979.
With some 15,000, 16,000 or 18,000 showing up......twi NEEDED way corps to help with the vast
details before the grand opening night. All the smaller tents, food areas, plastic white chain
link installments, plywood flooring, main stage area, assemble backrooms, etc. etc. etc.
The corps were "called in early" to...man all the stations: bless patrol, camping, shower units,
food prep and storage, warehousing, honey wagon and trash detail, porta-potties, main tent lighting,
sound and a/v, backrooms, chairs and stringing them in straight rows (of course), etc.
Mornings and evenings were reserved for "meetings and such".....but afternoons were strictly
designed for work. With 2,400 rolling up their sleeves with FREE LABOR.....quite a bit can
get accomplished in 4-5 hours a day, for 6 days!! And, if the roa coordinator felt that we
were behind schedule.......then, the morning meeting was CANCELLED. See the priority?!?!
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Twinky
That's the pattern that was set all through Corps training: 4 hours "study" which could be interrupted at will if something more important was mandated (like killing chickens) and four hours work experience (tidying the pens in the drawers or doing the washing up).
What got me more was the inability to participate in RoA at all. It was really after your time, Sky, but it was basically 18 hrs hard work and little time to socialise with one's spiritual partners, friends and whoever. Specially hard for internationals like me - when the people had come thousands of miles on expensive overseas flights and I couldn't get time off to spend with them. I was happy to do the work assigned to me and to serve people, but a few hours off to hang out with "my" visitors would have been nice.
And I didn't get much opportunity to "enjoy" Corps week either. I often wasn't released from my normal work tasks to participate. Don't suppose I missed much, though.
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skyrider
Twinky, on the contrary.......with regards to roa, nothing was "really after my time"
because I was there thru the end of the roa era, namely August 1995.
After the exodus of nearly 80% of corps and followers [ie -- the "loyalty letter brouhaha"]
each subsequent rock of ages [1990-1995] the major workload that befell to those corps and staff
remaining in twi was brutal. Yes, many of us were working double shifts and were soliciting our
faithful advanced class grads in our states to step up their roa workload, as well. At the time,
I was a limb coordinator and worked all day....then had to put on my suit and usher in the Big Top
each evening. I absolutely loathed this task. Here I was, having grown up on a farm, and was
ordered to stand in this glorified cornfield...in a hot, humid tent...in August...in a suit!!!
For those who missed this *turning point*.......here is what happened.
At the end of twi's Placement Meetings in March 1995, martindale decreed that ALL active way corps
would be put on full-time staff in August [1995] and would need to meet with twi's Personnel Director
[br@d Th0rpe] at a scheduled time during Corps Week to determine need/salary. This decree put a
thousand things in motion and thousands of heads spinning. :biglaugh:/>/>/>
And, here's my "Aha moment"......
The first Corps Meeting of the calendar year, in September.....martindale spent the majority of this
phone hook-up to all corps NOW ON TWI'S PAYROLL, to specify all that this entailed and DID NOT entail.
In other words, he made it clear that only a few SELECTED corps would be attending the Advanced Class
Special in Dallas that year. If you aren't selected, then you are NOT WELCOME. You are now on staff
and we want you to stay in your area. AND FURTHER.....WE ARE CANCELLING THE ROCK OF AGES FROM HENCEFORTH.
The whole backstory on the 1995 Rock of Ages was an out-of-control environment, teens up all hours and
hanging at the gazebo, and homo spirit infiltration [supposedly, :rolleyes:/>/>/> ] and the last ROA was
turned into "a class setting" with basically martindale teaching every night. Stiff. Rigid. Boring.
BUT.....imo, the REAL reason that martindale was cancelling the rock of ages festival was
because NOW that way corps were on the payroll, ALL EXPENSES INCURRED [travel, lodging, food, car expense,
etc] would be on twi's doorstep. Now, when the corps traveled.....twi's petty cash accounts were running
and needed reimbursed. Same with corps family and KIDS....they've got to eat too. No longer was the
rock of ages going to be a cash cow for twi.
I think martindale was a little late in figuring all this out......and his "all full-time corps revelation"
started dying before it hardly had time to breathe.
And, without way corps working at the roa? No roa. It was THAT simple. :anim-smile:/>/>/>
.
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Twinky
Mea culpa, Sky, thought you were out before 1995.
I'd been banished by then. I never got there in 1995.
So... a RoA with "real" (ahem) d.s. infiltration. (1) where was the BoDs' "believing" to keep these d.s. away in the first place? (2) why didn't the BoD or one or more of them simply banish the d.s.? You know, a real exorcism.
Ah heck. Much easier for the BoD to banish all believers, rather than banish a few d.s.
Holding a RoA might also have exposed the dramatic fall in numbers. If the BigTop was as empty as the auditorium is now, who'd want to be there at all?
But you could well be right, Sky, with your assessment that the cost of bringing all the WC in wouldn't be cheap (even if you do have$65m in the bank).
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Oakspear
What was worse than the "class" atmosphere at night was required class sessions in the morning as well, with little free time to socialize with friends from other states
Anyone who had been through a high school economics class would have been able to figure this outI was at that ROA...living in a flooded tent with my wife and four kids as the whole area flooded. More revelation
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skyrider
Oakspear......well, "the reason for corps [ushers] to suit up in the big top tent" was because
[drum roll.......] the word was being taught and wierwille was marketing a product.
He wasn't concerned about OUR comfort.....or the logic of an August sweltering tent. Wierwille
set the precedent of "being your best for God" and everyone fell in line.
Oh, and.....with regards to the teens hanging out late at the roa gazebo.
Well, in 1995 some said it was extremely rowdy and music playing....AND disrespect
for towards the bless patrol folk to tried to tamper down the noise. But also....
so many PARENTS [corps and adv class grads] had worked their butts off for days
and were sound asleep. What was wrong with those parents?
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WordWolf
It's nice to see the other side of the story on this one, finally.
See, regarding the setup of '89 vs '88, Raf and I were told, about '88, that the setup
was done "in half the time with half the people." The context given was the claim
that the people who left were contentious and made the place chaotic, so that the few
remaining had an EASIER job doing the setup since it was harmonious.
So, that was a HUGE lie- 1/2 the people managed it by working at least twice as hard.
This whole "it's more harmonious" thing was a bunch of hot air.
Naturally, the guy who told us this was being promoted from worker bee to a big
position despite having little twi experience. He WAS, however, incredibly loyal.
And not afraid to lie, apparently.
lcm would think every whim of his came directly from God Almighty.
lcm decided, all on his own, that his incoherent, inferior class called WAP
(Way of Abundance and Power) would be a hot seller if there were more people to advertise it.
So, he decided to get more people advertising it by making all the corps into SALARIED,
FULL-TIME workers for twi. IF that had been the answer, it might have paid for itself by
bringing in lots of new tuitions, then new tithes, new "abundant sharings" and new
"plurality givings". However, nobody could get anyone interested in wap, so the
salaried corps often ended up being busy-bodies and snooping into the lives of others.
Eventually, the expenses of paying for all these ROA attendees and their transit,
when normally they paid their own transit and paid twi for ROA attendance,
that killed both the "full-time corps" thing AND what was left of the ROA,
as you showed.
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skyrider
The Rock of Ages was like all things in twi.....it evolved over time. I've often said that,
for me, the roa ceased being fun and exciting around 1981.
Imo....the downward trajectory and outcome should not solely fall on lcm's shoulders,
because wierwille frog-marched years of corps involvement to bland conformity and lots
were sick and tired of this hot, humid, ho-hum fest. Same old, same old.....while vpw
stood on the main stage with an air conditioner neatly concealed in the podium.
Those who had attended say, in 1972, at age 20......were hitting age 36 in 1989. Sure,
the corps were growing more contentious......many had wives, kids, school attendance in
a few days after roa, jobs to get back to, etc. If you lived in Arizona...2 days travel
to corps week, roa, and 2 days travel home = 15 days away [from home & job] without pay!
And......wierwille DID NOT THANK THE CORPS WITH HEART-FELT APPRECIATION.
Corps had to go to corps week and roa prepared with work clothes, casual clothes, dress
clothes, etc. Not only did they work during corps week, but spent much of roa working
shifts as well. Time for any fun/fellowship was limited.....and really, after several
years, it all grew bland. Except for the rekindling of friendships and personal
relationships.....few relish sitting in a hot, humid tent every night for 2 1/2 hours.
Heck, after 10, 12, or 15 years in twi......most went to roa to see their friends and
loved ones, not to hear "the word" taught from main stage. But from the corps perspective,
it was two-weeks of work, confrontation, anxiety, and challenges to sleep in a tent and wear
a pressed suit that night. Good riddance to the roa.
Wierwille NEVER looked at the roa thru the prism of the way corps.
He only saw himself teaching the masses "the word of God."
Twi would like for martindale to be the fall guy in all this.
I don't buy it for one new york minute.
Wierwille set roa protocols in motion.
Martindale followed the roa blueprint.
Way corps grew tired of manipulation/exploitation.
It was only a matter of when.
.
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skyrider
Just to be clear.....
Most of the early roa had less structure.....and more time to just hang out.
In 1978 [and maybe, 1979].....there was a two-act play performed in one of the tents.
The International Tent was a-buzz with fun, laughter, song and sharings.
The Arts and Craft Tent [1980?] sold items made from believers.
Teen Outreach Tent was in the west woods.
By 1987 or so, roa became a bland, sanitized, structured mog-fest.
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