The Gauntlet of Classes and Indoctrination

[skyrider]

Thankfully, our two boys never had to run the gauntlet of classes and twi-indoctrination

where there is NO LIGHT at the end of such striving.

Thank God we exited twi before our boys were exposed to the gauntlet of classes and indoctrination.

Fast forward, and our oldest son graduated #1 in his medical school class and has received several

other honors since. Second son's business has been growing in leaps and bounds. Life, in full

measure, has been restored. God is good always.

I shudder to think what life would be like if I were still slogging along in cornfield heaven.

Where would our lives be today if we'd kept prevailing (cough, cough) in twi's cornfield? As we were exiting, my Region coordinator smugly told me that Martindale was going to assign me to the Presidents' Cabinet at HQ. Wowsers. I am SO GLAD that we never got pulled back into that snare again. The micromanagement, the monitoring, no life to call your own......and what about our boys? Looking back, I shudder to imagine how things would have turned out. Would twi have allowed my oldest son the time and space to study and excel in high school? in college? in medical school?

More than likely, there would have been corps grads along the way to browbeat and belittle his "secular" studies. What about the guilt that builds inside from such manipulation? Heck, I've read articles that the suicide rate amongst medical students is very high.....let alone a student who graduates #1 and gets the chancellor award in a class of 300+ medical students. Thank God my son was far removed from twi by then.

On one hand, twi boasts of "believing" to live the more abundant life......YET, they demean THE YEARS OF DEDICATION AND ACTION that it takes to get from point A to point B. Are the directors and corps grads THAT clueless? Are they so regimented in lockstep loyalty that they cannot see their demented logic? Sure, Dr. Carol-yn R@wlins was committed to twi.....BUT she had made her journey and reputation years before hearing pfal. Are all those innie kids going to follow in the path of brian moneyhands or j2p2?

The gauntlet of classes and indoctrination......I remember. I was in college when I started thru this gauntlet. Month after month, the leadership was lining up ANOTHER class for us pfal grads to take. They were poking and prodding us onward. Don't look back. And, twig after twig, they'd end it with a plug for going wow ambassador. Go and grow with God. Subtle, slick indoctrination. And, even though I decided to give 'a year to God' as a wow, I had every intention of finishing college. But the seduction of twi's indoctrination had a way of subverting my soul. Why give heed to secular learning when God has/had a much higher calling for your life? Go Corps.

Looking back, I see whole swaths of corps grads whose lives have been upended, divorced and destroyed. Dozens and dozens of my fellow corps have run the gauntlet and succumbed to defeat. Heck, look at martindale, the corps mascot. Where is HE today? Divorced. Devoured. Dethroned.

WARNING: Run the gauntlet at your own risk.

.

Edited July 7, 2015 by skyrider

[Twinky]

2 Tim 3:7

The familiar version:

King James Bible Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some less familiar versions:

International Standard Version - always studying but are never able to arrive at a full knowledge of the truth

Douay-Rheims Bible - Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth.

Darby Bible Translation

always learning, and never able to come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English - Who are always learning and are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Weymouth New Testament - and are always learning something new, and yet are never able to arrive at real knowledge of the truth.

World English Bible - always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary gives a slightly different slant:

3:1-9 ...Men love to gratify their own lusts, more than to please God and do their duty. When every man is eager for what he can get, and anxious to keep what he has, this makes men dangerous to one another. When men do not fear God, they will not regard man. ... Men are unholy and without the fear of God, because unthankful for the mercies of God. ...And when men have no rule over their own spirits, but despise that which is good and to be honoured. God is to be loved above all; but a carnal mind, full of enmity against him, prefers any thing before him, especially carnal pleasure. A form of godliness is very different from the power; from such as are found to be hypocrites, real Christians must withdraw. Such persons have been found within the outward church, in every place, and at all times.

There ever have been artful men, who, by pretences and flatteries, creep into the favour and confidence of those who are too easy of belief, ignorant, and fanciful. All must be ever learning to know the Lord; but these follow every new notion, yet never seek the truth as it is in Jesus. Like the Egyptian magicians, these were men of corrupt minds, prejudiced against the truth, and found to be quite without faith. Yet though the spirit of error may be let loose for a time, Satan can deceive the nations and the churches no further, and no longer, than God will permit.

[skyrider]

Looking back, I shudder to imagine how things would have turned out. Would twi have allowed my oldest son the time and space to study and excel in high school? in college? in medical school?

Thankfully, I'll never know what life would have been like by staying on twi's dirt road.

I don't have that Butterfly Effect....[2004 movie]

to compare alternate realities, or how things would have turned out.

All I know is that exiting twi has made ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN MY WORLD. :)

[skyrider]

Lots of quality men and women STOPPED running twi's gauntlet.

When I think about the benefits of higher education and the vast avenues

that open before an individual.....I think of a 5th corps grad and friend,

Dr. L0nnell J0hnson.

A Man of Integrity

[skyrider]

As many of you regular GS-posters know, this topic of "good-hearted, quality corps grads

exiting twi since 1978" has been a staple of my postings. For years, it was a few dozen

couples here, a few dozen couples there......and who really noticed when the throngs of

thousands convened at the rock of ages?

Yet, for some of us who worked alongside many of these wholesome corps grads, I found them

to be the salt of the earth....brothers and sisters in Christ. My wife and I have many

fond memories of these fun, energetic, spontaneity, committed-to-the-Lord individuals.

But.....little by little, dribble by dribble, they were putting more distance between

corporate-twi and their lives, families, education, careers, etc. Why? Obviously, they

too were seeing red flags and/or saw the need that to best serve God one needed to have

a solid, family/finances/future for a foundation.

Who stayed in twi? Who stayed to rise to the region levels? The yes-men. The ego-driven.

The Pharisees. The bullies. Yes, those who were made in the image of wierwille.

This background of information validates how twi became a paradox of principles under one roof.

The Pharisee crowd were pulling levers and pushing buttons to manipulate.....and God-inspired

disciples were out ministering to the people, endeavoring to walk by the spirit. Corporate twi

became vexed in its echo chamber of elitism. Plenty of good advanced class grads and corps

weren't spending any time in this echo chamber.

But hey......the days are long past finding out this information. Even here at GreaseSpot,

nearly all of the corps grads and hq staffers have moved on that used to visit this place.

Perhaps, I should move on, too.

Some who came to twi after 1985 might never have known how amazing some of these people were

who passed thru twi's doors.....

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentence. [Rom. 11:29]

[Rocky]

As many of you regular GS-posters know, this topic of "good-hearted, quality corps grads

exiting twi since 1978" has been a staple of my postings. For years, it was a few dozen

couples here, a few dozen couples there......and who really noticed when the throngs of

thousands convened at the rock of ages?

Yet, for some of us who worked alongside many of these wholesome corps grads, I found them

to be the salt of the earth....brothers and sisters in Christ. My wife and I have many

fond memories of these fun, energetic, spontaneity, committed-to-the-Lord individuals.

But.....little by little, dribble by dribble, they were putting more distance between

corporate-twi and their lives, families, education, careers, etc. Why? Obviously, they

too were seeing red flags and/or saw the need that to best serve God one needed to have

a solid, family/finances/future for a foundation.

Who stayed in twi? Who stayed to rise to the region levels? The yes-men. The ego-driven.

The Pharisees. The bullies. Yes, those who were made in the image of wierwille.

This background of information validates how twi became a paradox of principles under one roof.

The Pharisee crowd were pulling levers and pushing buttons to manipulate.....and God-inspired

disciples were out ministering to the people, endeavoring to walk by the spirit. Corporate twi

became vexed in its echo chamber of elitism. Plenty of good advanced class grads and corps

weren't spending any time in this echo chamber.

But hey......the days are long past finding out this information. Even here at GreaseSpot,

nearly all of the corps grads and hq staffers have moved on that used to visit this place.

Perhaps, I should move on, too.

Some who came to twi after 1985 might never have known how amazing some of these people were

who passed thru twi's doors.....

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentence. [Rom. 11:29]

I continue to appreciate your insight on the inner workings of twi. As they say... spot on. In every instance.

[waysider]

The Way threw down a gauntlet..... Meet the challenge and there will be spiritual enlightenment waiting for you at the finish line. Take all the classes, do the home studies, volunteer your labor and time for a chance to take the Advanced Class, the very pinnacle of instruction on manifesting "the other six" and living the more abundant life.

But, as you reflect on your completion of the much heralded Advanced Class, you realize you are no more "spiritually enlightened" than you were at that very first twig meeting.

It's not really a gauntlet, it's a goalpost that keeps moving farther and farther away from the starting point.

And, it's depressing, very, very depressing, to realize you can never really reach that finish line they promised, at least not by following their instructions.

Edited July 11, 2015 by waysider

[skyrider]

The Way threw down a gauntlet..... Meet the challenge and there will be spiritual enlightenment waiting for you

at the finish line. Take all the classes, do the home studies, volunteer your labor and time for a chance to take

the Advanced Class, the very pinnacle of instruction on manifesting "the other six" and living

the more abundant life.

And.....if you quit, wierwille called you "a cop-out"

whereas martindale mocked you as "a greasespot by midnight."

Well....I call this Quack-Prophecies.

Wierwille was just another blowhard. When I met with him after my deprogramming experience,

he "prophesied" that both of my parents would be dead in 5 YEARS [by 1986] for this evil act.

Sheesh....here, vpee was himself dead in four years and my parents were still around for

another 22 yrs (dad) and 29 yrs (mom).

And.....martindale trashed us, my wife and I, on the next corps night lying about why we left twi

saying we were choosing to go "the way of the world" rather than follow our corps commitment.

From some, I heard that he "prophecied" that our lives were over and the devil would take us out.

Two years later, and martindale is ousted by twi's lawyers, and slithers outta hqs in the dead

of night to a twi-owned home in Toledo. Twi had to pay out-of-court settlements to keep the

martindale sexcapades hitting all the newspapers for all the world to see.

So, twi-loyalists.....explain to me again how that "greasespot by midnight" thingy works in your

sadistic world. Is John Reynolds a mini-greasespot because he couldn't get his health issues

together as a trustee...and was a knocked down a few notches, yet still on twi-payroll? And,

what about Donna? She and craig got a divorce? Why didn't she lose her corps status?

Oh, that's right. Double standards.

Quack, quack.....

[outandabout]

The Way threw down a gauntlet..... Meet the challenge and there will be spiritual enlightenment waiting for you at the finish line. Take all the classes, do the home studies, volunteer your labor and time for a chance to take the Advanced Class, the very pinnacle of instruction on manifesting "the other six" and living the more abundant life.

But, as you reflect on your completion of the much heralded Advanced Class, you realize you are no more "spiritually enlightened" than you were at that very first twig meeting.

It's not really a gauntlet, it's a goalpost that keeps moving farther and farther away from the starting point.

And, it's depressing, very, very depressing, to realize you can never really reach that finish line they promised, at least not by following their instructions.

And when you don't "grow spiritually" enough it's your fault.

[Twinky]

Those classes, ultimately, were mind-control - to think narrowly like a good little Wayfer - and to learn NOT to listen to the enlarging spirit of God at work within us. God is able to work within us to will and to do of His good pleasure, without us having to learn to "operate" that self-same spirit of God. Heck, we're not even the organ-grinder's monkey. TWI was so keen on putting (trying to put) God in a box ... in prison, if you like.

Perhaps we already manifested (without knowing it) WoK, WoW, DoS, etc - we "just knew" something or other. Those classes taught us to strain after God, demanding the "green light" to proceed - not encouraging and enabling us to simply relax in the warmth of His giving us what we need to know, to understand.

Thank God He managed to shine his light into the little chinks in our minds that had not yet been boarded up by TWI.

Isn't it fantastic when those walls of Waythink are torn down, when God's let out of prison, and we're free to simply enjoy His gifts to us.

[Twinky]

In the same way that Arbeit Macht Frei, in Wayworld, Classes Make You Free.

[Rocky]

Those classes, ultimately, were mind-control - to think narrowly like a good little Wayfer - and to learn NOT to listen to the enlarging spirit of God at work within us. God is able to work within us to will and to do of His good pleasure, without us having to learn to "operate" that self-same spirit of God. Heck, we're not even the organ-grinder's monkey. TWI was so keen on putting (trying to put) God in a box ... in prison, if you like.

Perhaps we already manifested (without knowing it) WoK, WoW, DoS, etc - we "just knew" something or other. Those classes taught us to strain after God, demanding the "green light" to proceed - not encouraging and enabling us to simply relax in the warmth of His giving us what we need to know, to understand.

Thank God He managed to shine his light into the little chinks in our minds that had not yet been boarded up by TWI.

Isn't it fantastic when those walls of Waythink are torn down, when God's let out of prison, and we're free to simply enjoy His gifts to us.

Excellent perspective. A definite bull's eye!

[skyrider]

Those classes, ultimately, were mind-control - to think narrowly like a good little Wayfer - and to learn NOT to listen to the enlarging spirit of God at work within us. God is able to work within us to will and to do of His good pleasure, without us having to learn to "operate" that self-same spirit of God. Heck, we're not even the organ-grinder's monkey. TWI was so keen on putting (trying to put) God in a box ... in prison, if you like.

Perhaps we already manifested (without knowing it) WoK, WoW, DoS, etc - we "just knew" something or other. Those classes taught us to strain after God, demanding the "green light" to proceed - not encouraging and enabling us to simply relax in the warmth of His giving us what we need to know, to understand.

Thank God He managed to shine his light into the little chinks in our minds that had not yet been boarded up by TWI.

Isn't it fantastic when those walls of Waythink are torn down, when God's let out of prison, and we're free to simply enjoy His gifts to us.

Twinky....I agree with much of what you're saying here, although I see it more as indoctrination

rather than mind-control. The classes.....fnd, int, adv, and others....were tweaked in such a way

that we were beholden to 'The Teacher' and not God's gift to mankind, the Lord Jesus. Lip-service

was given, but the substance and foundation left to the student was FOLLOW WIERWILLE'S TEACHINGS.

Same deal with speaking in tongues. As has been discussed many times here at GS, I believe that

twi's version and concept of speaking in tongues was a counterfeit. Wierwille sowed just

enough tares (weeds) into the truth (wheat) SO THAT THEY WOULD GROW TOGETHER. As such, the weeds

have a way of growing faster and deeper roots to get to the water in the soil to crowd out the

growth of surrounding wheat [and yeah, I grew up on a wheat farm].

I believe, the gifts/manifestations from God are available......but were skewed in twi-land.

That's why twi has failed so miserably and so many became entrapped in its barren wilderness.

The longer one stayed in this desert....the more scorching one received.

And, that's why so many of us post here. We are warning others of these dangers and snares.

[Rocky]

Twinky....I agree with much of what you're saying here, although I see it more as indoctrination

rather than mind-control. The classes.....fnd, int, adv, and others....were tweaked in such a way

that we were beholden to 'The Teacher' and not God's gift to mankind, the Lord Jesus. Lip-service

was given, but the substance and foundation left to the student was FOLLOW WIERWILLE'S TEACHINGS.

...

And, that's why so many of us post here. We are warning others of these dangers and snares.

Is indoctrination really that much different a concept than mind-control?

Yeah, it is indoctrination. But after the indoctrination, weren't we so much more subject to compliance with the suggestions of Wierwille and his minions?

[skyrider]

As we were exiting, my Region coordinator smugly told me that Martindale was going to assign me to the Presidents' Cabinet at HQ. Wowsers. I am SO GLAD that we never got pulled back into that snare again.

And.....three years later this region guy and his wife DECEPTIVELY EXITED twi

in the middle of the night with no forwarding address.

What they did was request to step down and move into secular work....i.e. no longer

work full-time for twi [now why would top-tier leaders want to do THAT if everything

was peachy?]. So, they requested to oversee the local branch in that city. The night

before the branch folk were to help them move to an apartment, the region guy called and

told them that their help wasn't needed.

Lo and behold.....this region couple left that night and ABANDONED twi with no forwarding

address, nothing. Poof......they were gone.

Yep, the same guy that smugly mocked me for exiting twi and walking away from the

presidents' cabinet position. At least, I was honest and upfront about my decision.

[krys]

Of course, Monday Morning Quarterbacking always works, but I can't help but think he also told the truth by slamming the door and leaving no forwarding information. It effectively said, "I'm done! I'm gone! Leave me alone because I want nothing further to do with you".

[spectrum49]

I took all their classes & stuff (& PFAL alone about 50 times---Ha!), and went WOW three times. But (though invited) I never chose to go Corps. (I guess I just "enjoyed my freedom" too much. — Ha!)

I will say that I enjoyed the research—but I'm also a sort of "renegade", so I never truly believed all of it 100%. Ironically though, it was "my own Biblical research" which provided me away out of there after "way too long". (That is, when I finally realized they weren't interested in any "new light"…which might be "an improvement" on PFAL, etc.)

Even today, they remain "stuck in their tradition", and are very unwilling to make any changes to their "original indoctrination package"—even if it makes more sense! (I call these "Wierwillites"…LOL.)

I'll give you one "funny anecdote" though:

One Saturday morning (just out of curiosity) I calculated that we had given our landlord $94,000 over the years—and had nothing to show for it. Shocked, I said to my wife: "Hey sweetie—rules or no rules, we're getting a house!"

Within a month, we were living in "the most perfect home you could imagine" for us! (But that's another story in itself. Let me just say that "God is good.")

Now (of course) the leadership of TWI didn't take kindly to our "going in debt", and (although we weren't being kicked-out over this) they informed us that we could no longer be fellowship coordinators, join the corps or go "fellow laborers", etc. (And I thought to myself: "That's just fine with me!")

However, they all came to our "housewarming". And you should have heard the leaders' remarks then—LOL. One remarked: "What a beautiful party house!" And as we talked, she was saying how great it would be to run classes or even fellowships here—and was already describing (in detail) just where "this or that' could go, etc.

I asked her if I might be "privileged to oversee" the class or fellowship meeting in my house. She replied: "No, I'm afraid we'll have to do that. And it's not that we don't love you—it's merely about your mortgage loan from the bank…that's all."

After they all left, it did seem "rather curious" to my wife and I how it could be "so wrong for us" to even have this house at all, but "so right for them" to use it"??? That made no sense—and especially that I would have to "let them be in charge" of what goes on in my own house when they came to visit!

Hypocrites all! (LOL) Thanks for listening!

Edited August 7, 2015 by spectrum49

[skyrider]

One Saturday morning (just out of curiosity) I calculated that we had given our landlord $94,000 over the years—and had nothing to show for it. Shocked, I said to my wife: "Hey sweetie—rules or no rules, we're getting a house!"

Within a month, we were living in "the most perfect home you could imagine" for us! (But that's another story in itself. Let me just say that "God is good.")

Now (of course) the leadership of TWI didn't take kindly to our "going in debt", and (although we weren't being kicked-out over this) they informed us that we could no longer be fellowship coordinators, join the corps or go "fellow laborers", etc. (And I thought to myself: "That's just fine with me!")

However, they all came to our "housewarming". And you should have heard the leaders' remarks then—LOL. One remarked: "What a beautiful party house!" And as we talked, she was saying how great it would be to run classes or even fellowships here—and was already describing (in detail) just where "this or that' could go, etc.

I asked her if I might be "privileged to oversee" the class or fellowship meeting in my house. She replied: "No, I'm afraid we'll have to do that. And it's not that we don't love you—it's merely about your mortgage loan from the bank…that's all."

After they all left, it did seem "rather curious" to my wife and I how it could be "so wrong for us" to even have this house at all, but "so right for them" to use it"??? That made no sense—and especially that I would have to "let them be in charge" of what goes on in my own house when they came to visit!

Hypocrites all! (LOL) Thanks for listening!

Spectrum.....what a heaping load of hypocrisy.

Twi leadership [ie. corps-clones] are numb-brains. They follow orders and bask in their reflected glory

of "leading others".....yet, they hardly have a pot to pi$$ in. Many don't understand the first thing

about home ownership, equity or appreciating values. They pay the monthly rent and pat themselves on

the back for not being "burdened by the things of this world"....all the while, they re-use Styrofoam

cups at class breaks and utilize car washes and garage sales to make extra money.

Yeah, they want to "be in charge of an event IN YOUR HOME".......while smugly putting you in your subordinate

place of submission. Screw that. Good riddance to twi's smug-fest.

Good move, Spec.......good for you.

.

Edited August 10, 2015 by skyrider

[spectrum49]

SKYRIDER: Thanks for the wonderful remarks! BTW, not too long after that incident was when we finally left twi. Outside of that mortgage, we had no other debt (except credit cards, which we paid in full each month when due).

Here’s an update: Believe it or not (despite that “loan from the devil”…LOL) we still prospered anyway! We actually paid off that 30-year mortgage in only 5 yrs & 1 mo! No more RENT, and no more MORTGAGE! (Needless to say, under “their rules” we would NEVER have been able to save enough to buy a house outright, with cash…and do it “the right way”!)

And I’m embarrassed to tell you just how well our “nest egg” has been doing! Our “autumn years together” in retirement look very bright indeed—because we were able to INVEST the money we might (instead) have paid to either a landlord or a bank.

[skyrider]

SKYRIDER: Thanks for the wonderful remarks! BTW, not too long after that incident was when we finally left twi. Outside of that mortgage, we had no other debt (except credit cards, which we paid in full each month when due).

Here’s an update: Believe it or not (despite that “loan from the devil”…LOL) we still prospered anyway! We actually paid off that 30-year mortgage in only 5 yrs & 1 mo! No more RENT, and no more MORTGAGE! (Needless to say, under “their rules” we would NEVER have been able to save enough to buy a house outright, with cash…and do it “the right way”!)

And I’m embarrassed to tell you just how well our “nest egg” has been doing! Our “autumn years together” in retirement look very bright indeed—because we were able to INVEST the money we might (instead) have paid to either a landlord or a bank.

Yeah......No more RENT, and no more MORTGAGE.

Same with us. Once we got unshackled from twi's onerous doctrines, we were able to RUN again.

Rather than seeing twi's hopeless and burdensome slogging thru life......we started THRIVING.

Each year got better and better.

Finances, education, peace of mind, family relationships mended, freedom.......DELIVERANCE.

We enjoy our home, our neighbors.....extending invites to cookouts back-n-forth.

It's just such a blessing to have wonderful neighbors. The whole package.

And, as noted in my first post.....our two boys are well on their way to wholesome and

prosperous living. Just like Psalms/Proverbs states----blessings generation after generation.

Thanks for posting, Spec.

[MRAP]

This is probably covered elsewhere but here are the questions: the college in Kansas (Emporium) and Gunderson in Colorado, were any loans taken out on those (I thought so about Gunderson). Either way, it was our abundant sharing that bought those properties - no wonder we should not have taken out loans to buy our own properties, then we might not tithe as much.

To this day, I give, but not to TWI, I give it to various Christian outreach organizations and to military and veteran ogranizations in addition to feeding the poor, etc. Either way, I am giving and the word says I get blessed, either now or later; Jesus can fill me in at the Bema if I chose poorly.

That said, as spectrum49 and skyrider commented on: I also have ownership of my own property - paid off (not wasting money on rent with nothing to show after years of servitude). If I had stayed in twi, that would not have happened, bar none. I now have something to pass on to my kids. Sorry, did not alot of OT folks own expanses of land, won't get into the details of how some came about it - that's a forum thread for another day.

I know that for years it was respect for stuff in Uncle Harry's book to not go into debt: not so much for respect but I took that all as "gospel". I mean really, were did the Wierwille farm originate, who actually paid for that, was it inherited.

Bottom line folks, just be smart with the money, stay within your means, bless God and take care of your family and give where giving is needed. You know what, if the heart is right, let Jesus enlighten when you get to the bema.

[waysider]

".....no wonder we should not have taken out loans to buy our own properties, then we might not tithe as much."

BINGO!

Another piece of the puzzle falls in place.

[DogLover]

I think Gunnison and the Indiana Campus were bought outright, no loans. I remember hearing about VPW saying when they burned the mortgage for Emporia (they had mortgaged the International HQ to pay for that), that he would never do that again. I suspect they had plenty of money to buy the Indiana Campus and Gunnison without a mortgage. It may be of interest to some folks that are new on here to know that Craig M. is still on the Board of Trustees/Directors for Gunnison. Gunnison is not owned by The Way International.

[MRAP]

Hey DogLover, can you elaborate more on the current Gunnison scenario. I had heard twi sold it but did they - can we expect checks for the $ we invested. And what's this about Craig still being in the mix - thought he was an assistant manager at a fast food joint. Yeh, I was still around when they burned the Emporia chunk of dried wood pulp. I remember how proud they were in twi when gunnison was "purchased". An old twi twig leader I went on the field with in North Carolina (Kevin.G)got in good with the top family and took on an administrative position at gunnison but by the time I heard that news I was on the out with twi.

Not sure how my post even relates to the premise of this thread, oh yeh, here goes: got so tired being in the branch leaders WOW family, constantly cleaning a house (not allowed to live in) in order to host those seminars/classes. Only the "ladies" of the family were allowed to live there, my brother and I had to live in a two room flat (shared a bathroom with numerous flop house folks) and walk or ride our bikes there to the "Branch House" early every day to shovel snow and then sit outside in the cold waiting for someone to finally get up to let us in outa the cold, yeh, a really tight family. The summer was better, only had to mow the lawn. Yes, my brother and I were just a couple of bitches. Hey, the branch leader was 4th corp, she was hard core (pun intended)

Do I sound - disgruntled?

[waysider]

"Do I sound - disgruntled?"

Nah, you just sound like someone who got a flash of reality.