Bolshevik, that's only one of the irony's you will find here.
I called out Seth's post because he has a history of posting hateful stuff about Christians. In another recent post by him, he commented about how he would like to see everyone stop believing in "fairy tales", referring to anyone who believes what the Bible teaches. Sorry, but in all my years, having had many discussions with atheist's in real life, I've never had anyone resort to the nastiness and name calling that I see from people like him on the internet. So yes, I can safely say that MOST people are not so rude and nasty. If he, or anyone else chooses to get froggy with someone in real life, he will face the consequences. Up to him, and I don't really care. However, I had no idea he was so crazy he would attempt to get my personal information to meet and fight about it. He doesn't scare me in the least but I have family to consider and no one that unstable is going to get any personal information from me.
I've said before, this used to be such a great community. Many people who left, or were kicked out of the way found people here they could relate to. People who had been through the same garbage. Imagine someone recently out of the way, comes here broken, looking for answers to what they had experienced. Then they see people insulting Christians, mocking belief's they have held dear for their entire life in some cases. I'm not talking about the way, I mean their belief in God. I doubt someone in such a vulnerable state would care to open up to a community where their entire belief system is going to be mocked if they happen to say they believe in God and the Bible.
I don't care who believes in God and who doesn't. Raf recently stated that he is now an atheist. Good for him, if that's what makes him happy. It doesn't matter to me, and it shouldn't matter to him if I still do believe. I have yet to see Raf be nasty to anyone about it though. I have always liked and respected him and that hasn't changed because his belief has changed. The difference is, he isn't going around preaching to everyone about how ignorant those who believe are.
But I've had enough of this. I know I'm persona non-grata here anymore. And that's fine. It's entirely up to Duffy and the moderators if they want to allow that kind of BS here. Just don't be surprised of someone who really NEEDS this community runs away because of it.
Seth, I have no more to say to you. You keep posting whatever you like. Since those of us who believe in God are "scumbags" to you, there is no conversation to be had. But you have serious issues. I pray you will get the help you so obviously need.
I was warned before starting this thread that there would be passionate responses but did not expect this sort of discorse. Hopefully we can get back on the topic of this thread of how twi changed your life.
As this thread began, twi was an experience and we learned from it but did any of what we learned change us for good or bad. Many of the errors/faults of twi were experiences we learned from but did we utilize those negatives to either enhance or be a detriment to our charcter and such?
Us who have posted in GSC have quite a variety of experience with twi: time in "twi service", twi positions held, different jobs while on the WOW field but maybe, most importantly - the crap or cream we encountered.
It's understandable that twi could turn a person away from God and just as understandable that twi could set the ground work for a desire to learn more about God, though in a differenct venue.
I would like to think that every dark cloud has a silver lineing and to this day, I look back on the twi experience to see if there is still something I can take from that may help me, even now, as I enter the ranks of the old fart/senior citizen (never too late to learn).
Sadly, twi has made me overly wary of all God professing organizations so, is that a good or bad thing?
I was just reading skyrider's forum thread: A Gauntlet of Classes and Indoctrination. I saw his post about his son and medical school and if he and his family had not exited twi, his son would not have had that opportunity; it reminded me of one day in the long past.
If it were not for a Wisconsin limb teaching in 1975, I would not have taken advantage of my GI bill and went to college - that changed my life (as I see it) for the better: dual medical technology and military careers - and because of that, I now was able to retire earlier than most folks my age.
VPW taught at that limb meeting, I can not remember exactly what he said or did but it was after that, that I decided to utilize my military vet/GI bill educational benefits. I think also that it had to do with what happened earlier in the day when I witnessed vpw chewing out the Joyfull Noise folks and then realized that twi was no longer going to be the only thing in my life and it was time to challenge myself and move onto additional endeavors though at that time there was no intent to leave twi.
Strange: was it something I heard that day during the teaching that told me I could be more than what I currently was (unintended consequences) or was it the visual of vpw chewing out Joyfull Noise - maybe a combination of both. Either way, it changed the course of my life like how a rock in the middle of a stream can change the course of water - what a random little experience that day was.
I was looking for God. I met a WOW. He was really knowledgeable in the scriptures, and on fire for God. I met some interim Corps and they seemed to have a glow about them and they seemed vibrant with life. I felt pressured by the WOW (who himself was being pressured by the interim Corps) to take PFAL, which raised a lot of red flags for me. I became disenchanted by the non-WOW people I met after the WOWs had moved on. Not very caring, as I couldn't attend regularly because I lived in another town a long way away so they thought I was just a time-waster and not really interested. Still, I wasn't impressed by any churches and their seemingly wishy-washy message.
The fog years started (not that I knew that at the time). Chris Geer came to Gartmore and started his reign of terror. I found some graduated Corps who were unhappy with (and hurt by) the leadership but were wonderful people to be around. I hung out with them for a while. They helped me a lot. Things were getting worse. I prayed and miraculously was offered a job in another country and I moved to be with a tremendously tight-knit bunch of believers.
Then, I stopped by at HQ for the first time ever. I got talked into entering the WC training. That was when things really started to go wrong. I was always in trouble. Well, all the in-rez Corps was. Bullied. Threatened. Worked long days. Not enough sleep. Too much to do, always. Study hall was good, but interrupted twice a week by going out to chop wood. The constant fear of being thrown out. I'd given up a high-paying well respected profession to enter the WC - expecting to be going back into the profession to spread the word within it. Still, it was "God first" and I gave it my all, nothing half-hearted with me. Yep. I drank the Kool-Aid in abundance. Huh, that profession - and all other training - was belittled all the time I was in rez, and it became known that we weren't expected to return to our previous professions or employment types. I was belittled, constantly. There were some very weird things that happened, weird in an unpleasant way. Mostly, it was a big yell-fest.
I had a WoW year. When I graduated, the area and twig that I had built up from nothing was given to someone else (male), who had been unsuccessful in his WoW year, and he immediately ran off practically everyone my family had won; the area folded. I got kicked out of the WC (at the same time, losing my engagement to another Corps person) and all the last few believers (ex-WoWs) moved out back to the city they'd come from. I was left with no-one, no support, nothing. I had no self-esteem, no inner reserves, no confidence, nothing. No thing at all. Abandoned in a foreign country and too terrified to move to another city or even back to my home country. No friends in the new country; all my family and friendships in my home country in tatters.
Why? You might find this hard to believe, but the Corps Night teachings were heavy-duty indoctrination sessions about the greatness of TWI, no-one else knowing the Word, and the dangerous unreliability of mainstream Christians. I was terrified of other devil-possessed Christians. I was suspicious of everyone. I was significantly depressed, horrible, spiky, aggressive to people, and near suicidal. I would stand in front of my closet and burst into tears at the effort of choosing what clothes to wear. I burst into tears at most things, actually. My weight dropped by about 40lb; I looked so gaunt. Really, I have no idea how I functioned at all. My WoW boss had kept me on and she was a real rock. She didn't understand the inner turmoil, but her own marriage had broken down quite recently and she understood some of the pain I suffered.
I spent ten years in that ultra miserable state. The Lost Years, I call them. I cannot really remember what I did. Just vague things that only occasionally fit together. Somehow, after some years, I moved back to my home country. I was still desperately miserable and depressed. I can't begin to explain to you how dark those years were.
I knew I needed to get back to God. To the greatness of God's Word blah blah. I was ready to crawl over broken glass back to TWI. I needed to write the most grovelly letter ever and send to them. I looked them up on the net; needed the zip code. The google search redirected to Grease Spot Cafe. I was appalled by the horrendous stories I read (with horrified fascination) about this wonderful ministry that I'd let down so badly and disgraced myself (and God) with. But the more I read these horrifying stories on GSC, the more I saw the truth, there was a ring of truth, and I realised that how I'd been treated had been systematic abuse and psychological manipulation aimed at breaking me (and many others), but not, if you like, personal to me because I was such a rat-dang individual - just part of the pattern of abuse, especially of females. The scales fell from my eyes. My healing started.
Today, I am an active member of two churches, both of which have a laid-back feel to them. I thought I was kind and compassionate before; hah, nothing to what I am now. I'm involved with poor and disadvantaged people. I recognise signs of abuse and can help people move on. I can recognise God's loving kindness and demonstrate that to other people. I am safely held in God's hands and rely completely on him.
I learned a lot of stuff in study hall - all I remember is what I "taught myself" through careful study. I don't remember much of TWI teachings.
I have never been able to resume my profession after so very long out of it.
I am significantly financially disadvantaged. However, I have (after years of fear and worry about being "out of God's protection") bought a little house - which God directed me to - and I have a mortgage till I'm 74.
I am too old or too out of touch to be employed in this economic climate, and after many years of applying and being rejected, I've set up as self-employed. It's me making the best of a bad job (as the saying goes) and I earned enough (not much more than minimum wage) to meet my very frugal needs, and to give a little to others who have a little less. My client base is erratic and I don't know from one week to the next what work I'll have, but I pray about it and out of the blue I get a phone call for someone who needs my help.
I have no pension entitlements.
I don't read the Bible much. I do hang out with mature Christians and discuss the workings of God's love with them. Some people consider me wise; others think I have somewhat strange ideas; one person called me an apostle; others think I'm a compassionate pastor; most think I am enthusiastic (perhaps too much so) to share God's love with others. I am very careful what I accept of teachings/ sharings/ Bible studies.
I learned some very bad language which I try hard not to use and now rarely slip on.
I learned some very hateful behavior, again which I try hard not to use.
I learned some very hateful attitudes towards some groups of people, which I have overcome since I was never wholly convinced about these attitudes in the first place.
I have repaired my severely fractured relationships with my family and with some pre-Way friends.
I have never married and my long-desired children will never be born, I'm past child-bearing age now. I mourn their absence.
Would I do the same again?
I would seek after God. But I would listen to my wiser friends and family who weren't impressed by TWI's teachings.
I wouldn't wish the misery I endured at the hands of TWI on anyone. I would wish the closeness experienced within some twigs, on every group of Christians.
I can't change the past. I can only draw from it to enhance my future, and perhaps help others with their futures.
I wouldn't have wished to be where I am now.
I feel there is a lot that I could have done to help others, that has been stolen from me and stolen from God.
I have learned to be happy with my lot. Godliness with contentment is great gain. I know God loves me and will never never leave or forsake or abandon me. Despite my many failures and weaknesses, in which He delights because He can "show off" and help me through.
Sorry you suffered so much. You are right, it was a pattern of abuse, but we were not allowed to honestly express ourselves, so, like you, I thought it was just me that deserved to be yelled at, judged, ordered around, controlled, never appreciated, used by upper leadership and more.
Once we were out, from other Ex-Wayfers and Greasespot, that is when we learned we were not alone and it was IT, not us.
I read your post above Twinky. Sorry for the negatives that you experienced, but I am confident in your service to God and our Lord Jesus Christ and to our fellow humans. All I can say now is let's mix confidence with humility. Humility to learn from and serve other people. But also the wisdom and confidence to know when WE have greater knowledge and more godly application than others.
And it looks like your two cats are your adopted children. To you and your kitty cats
Yes, Mark, the two cats take the place of the absent kids.
I am constantly amazed by the awesomeness of the people I meet - the quiet but great works they have done, are doing. No great Bible teachings, just good solid Christian service. People who dedicate their lives to working in healthcare and educational fields in African countries; found orphanages for children in ex-Communist bloc countries; start missions or schools or work projects in India and other countries, including countries with significant anti-Christian ethos; spend weekends cooking lunches or soups or meals for homeless, vulnerable or not-well-off people in this city; running groups or organisations for kids at risk or to give their parents some breathing space; even just simply visiting elderly shut-ins. Nobody shouts about this; it's just "what they do." Very quietly, very solidly. Some of the projects have grown to become international charities.
And this is from just one church, with a current congregation of about 350 adults.
There are loads of other people in other churches in this city that I've got to know,of the same ilk (well, I get involved too, so I don't know many "bums on seats").
I also know some top-class theologians, with good Uni degrees and post-grad study. Prodigious intellects. But they don't flaunt this. Instead, they quietly and patiently, teach, share, explain, and keep themselves firmly on the ground and not on pedestals. They don't flaunt their "Rev"ness but dress "normally" and you wouldn't know they were vicars until you got into theological conversations with them.
I often wonder what I "bring to the party" - I just know that I am welcomed heartily and generously, and most people like being with me. Some even consider what I say (!) and think it wise. (Others wonder what part of "weird" I come from!)
Well, for my part I must say that I ended up in beautiful Idaho. So that part was great, except that I didn't have any money because I was "moving the Word".
TWI screwed me over: they took (accepted)my money, part of my youth, degraded me and built in me a mis-trust for all non-traditional Christian evangelical organizations.
I consider myself blessed or just plain lucky that I had a number of adult years under my belt when the twi exprience started. While in twi, it could have went super bad at any point, I almost applied for the WC but some debts preventeded me; never considered debts to be a blessing (sorry about that Uncle Harry).
The twi blessing to my life was totally inadvertent and unintended by twi. I put me in the right places at the right times to push forward in life.
Well, I could always thank the school bully who used to kick my foot for making me tougher and ....ed off enough to eventually take him down a few notches and thus, provide a sense of courage and capability.
That's how I view twi; luckily: no long standing damage. Strangely, the bully stopped being a bully and we became friends but that never happended with twi.
How can anyone not be empathetic to what twinky posted; twi makes folks more vulnerable in their lives (dependent) and then takes advantage of that vulnerability. (sorry, off topic and it's a thread I started).
Well, I could always thank the school bully who used to kick my foot for making me tougher and ....ed off enough to eventually take him down a few notches and thus, provide a sense of courage and capability.
That's how I view twi; luckily: no long standing damage. Strangely, the bully stopped being a bully and we became friends but that never happended with twi.
How can anyone not be empathetic to what twinky posted; twi makes folks more vulnerable in their lives (dependent) and then takes advantage of that vulnerability. (sorry, off topic and it's a thread I started).
Yeah....how twi leader exploited Twinky is heart-wrenching.
Before anyone comments further on this thread you must first access and read the links provided by WordWolf on page 2 of the "Irony of it all" thread within the Way forum.
Really, it will provide exceptional insight.
Those two links are 10 years old but some of you here today posted on those two thread links - like looking into the glass.
Enjoy and take a walk down memory lane. It will be emotional - at least I thought so.
Lots of missing "puzzle pieces" scattered throughout those threads.
Sadly, some of the people on those threads have left the planet, as they say. Time waits for no one.
For better or for worse, my life was changed forever, one summer night in 1972 (or was it 1971? I can never get that part straight.)
I had some good times. I met some great people. We probably all did to some degree. I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if not for that fateful summer night. I'm sure it would have been different, much, much different.
waysider, you stepped smack dab into the middle of my thoughts: puzzle pieces.
That's what I was thinking throughout the reading of the two threads that WordWolf provided.
I also wondered, how many of the folks were still with us today.
The best and the worst of times somehow applies but time does not excuse much of anything; in reading those two threads there was alot more positive than negative. I also am a realist but that information was a confirmation to what I have held over the years and is why I started the twi good/bad experience thread - it seems like that thread was just and extension of other numerous threads.
We can despise twi for good reasons but we must also accept on how it made us grow and see how it changed the course in our lives - step up to the challenge and overcome the past and the twi of that time is certainly the past. Stangely, I have an interest in hitting up a twig just to see what is taught (like stopping in to see an old girlfriend), not to be a thorn in their side, I am just qurious.
Ten years and maybe more, you, waysider, have the same thoughtful yet humerous take on all the issues.
Before anyone comments further on this thread you must first access and read the links provided by WordWolf on page 2 of the "Irony of it all" thread within the Way forum.
(snip)
I don't think they "MUST", but it's not a bad idea if they have the time.
The "Eyewitness" threads were meant to help us fill in the blanks for each other
and help form a more complete picture of what happened, and when.
The 1966-1975 thread:
The 1976 thread:
The 1977-1980 thread:
The 1981-1984 thread:
The 1985 thread:
The 1986-1988 thread:
The 1989-1992 thread:
There were other threads with twi history,
but that was it for this set.
(The thread for before 1966 never got an informative reply.)
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Allan
My life changed for the better, considering where it quite likely would have ended up. I didn't cop too much flak whilst in, the flak from their religious toads came when I left lol. When I left, life
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I love your narrative. Indeed, so much more for me since leaving. In significant ways, for me, twi represented a period of stunted emotional, social and intellectual growth. I look back and think abo
WordWolf
He's entitled to his opinion, and the damage from twi/vpw is enough to get one angry. That having been said, personally, I would prefer that posts that antagonistic not be posted by people who ha
Bluzeman
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Bluzeman
Bolshevik, that's only one of the irony's you will find here.
I called out Seth's post because he has a history of posting hateful stuff about Christians. In another recent post by him, he commented about how he would like to see everyone stop believing in "fairy tales", referring to anyone who believes what the Bible teaches. Sorry, but in all my years, having had many discussions with atheist's in real life, I've never had anyone resort to the nastiness and name calling that I see from people like him on the internet. So yes, I can safely say that MOST people are not so rude and nasty. If he, or anyone else chooses to get froggy with someone in real life, he will face the consequences. Up to him, and I don't really care. However, I had no idea he was so crazy he would attempt to get my personal information to meet and fight about it. He doesn't scare me in the least but I have family to consider and no one that unstable is going to get any personal information from me.
I've said before, this used to be such a great community. Many people who left, or were kicked out of the way found people here they could relate to. People who had been through the same garbage. Imagine someone recently out of the way, comes here broken, looking for answers to what they had experienced. Then they see people insulting Christians, mocking belief's they have held dear for their entire life in some cases. I'm not talking about the way, I mean their belief in God. I doubt someone in such a vulnerable state would care to open up to a community where their entire belief system is going to be mocked if they happen to say they believe in God and the Bible.
I don't care who believes in God and who doesn't. Raf recently stated that he is now an atheist. Good for him, if that's what makes him happy. It doesn't matter to me, and it shouldn't matter to him if I still do believe. I have yet to see Raf be nasty to anyone about it though. I have always liked and respected him and that hasn't changed because his belief has changed. The difference is, he isn't going around preaching to everyone about how ignorant those who believe are.
But I've had enough of this. I know I'm persona non-grata here anymore. And that's fine. It's entirely up to Duffy and the moderators if they want to allow that kind of BS here. Just don't be surprised of someone who really NEEDS this community runs away because of it.
Seth, I have no more to say to you. You keep posting whatever you like. Since those of us who believe in God are "scumbags" to you, there is no conversation to be had. But you have serious issues. I pray you will get the help you so obviously need.
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MRAP
I was warned before starting this thread that there would be passionate responses but did not expect this sort of discorse. Hopefully we can get back on the topic of this thread of how twi changed your life.
As this thread began, twi was an experience and we learned from it but did any of what we learned change us for good or bad. Many of the errors/faults of twi were experiences we learned from but did we utilize those negatives to either enhance or be a detriment to our charcter and such?
Us who have posted in GSC have quite a variety of experience with twi: time in "twi service", twi positions held, different jobs while on the WOW field but maybe, most importantly - the crap or cream we encountered.
It's understandable that twi could turn a person away from God and just as understandable that twi could set the ground work for a desire to learn more about God, though in a differenct venue.
I would like to think that every dark cloud has a silver lineing and to this day, I look back on the twi experience to see if there is still something I can take from that may help me, even now, as I enter the ranks of the old fart/senior citizen (never too late to learn).
Sadly, twi has made me overly wary of all God professing organizations so, is that a good or bad thing?
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MRAP
I was just reading skyrider's forum thread: A Gauntlet of Classes and Indoctrination. I saw his post about his son and medical school and if he and his family had not exited twi, his son would not have had that opportunity; it reminded me of one day in the long past.
If it were not for a Wisconsin limb teaching in 1975, I would not have taken advantage of my GI bill and went to college - that changed my life (as I see it) for the better: dual medical technology and military careers - and because of that, I now was able to retire earlier than most folks my age.
VPW taught at that limb meeting, I can not remember exactly what he said or did but it was after that, that I decided to utilize my military vet/GI bill educational benefits. I think also that it had to do with what happened earlier in the day when I witnessed vpw chewing out the Joyfull Noise folks and then realized that twi was no longer going to be the only thing in my life and it was time to challenge myself and move onto additional endeavors though at that time there was no intent to leave twi.
Strange: was it something I heard that day during the teaching that told me I could be more than what I currently was (unintended consequences) or was it the visual of vpw chewing out Joyfull Noise - maybe a combination of both. Either way, it changed the course of my life like how a rock in the middle of a stream can change the course of water - what a random little experience that day was.
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Twinky
I was looking for God. I met a WOW. He was really knowledgeable in the scriptures, and on fire for God. I met some interim Corps and they seemed to have a glow about them and they seemed vibrant with life. I felt pressured by the WOW (who himself was being pressured by the interim Corps) to take PFAL, which raised a lot of red flags for me. I became disenchanted by the non-WOW people I met after the WOWs had moved on. Not very caring, as I couldn't attend regularly because I lived in another town a long way away so they thought I was just a time-waster and not really interested. Still, I wasn't impressed by any churches and their seemingly wishy-washy message.
The fog years started (not that I knew that at the time). Chris Geer came to Gartmore and started his reign of terror. I found some graduated Corps who were unhappy with (and hurt by) the leadership but were wonderful people to be around. I hung out with them for a while. They helped me a lot. Things were getting worse. I prayed and miraculously was offered a job in another country and I moved to be with a tremendously tight-knit bunch of believers.
Then, I stopped by at HQ for the first time ever. I got talked into entering the WC training. That was when things really started to go wrong. I was always in trouble. Well, all the in-rez Corps was. Bullied. Threatened. Worked long days. Not enough sleep. Too much to do, always. Study hall was good, but interrupted twice a week by going out to chop wood. The constant fear of being thrown out. I'd given up a high-paying well respected profession to enter the WC - expecting to be going back into the profession to spread the word within it. Still, it was "God first" and I gave it my all, nothing half-hearted with me. Yep. I drank the Kool-Aid in abundance. Huh, that profession - and all other training - was belittled all the time I was in rez, and it became known that we weren't expected to return to our previous professions or employment types. I was belittled, constantly. There were some very weird things that happened, weird in an unpleasant way. Mostly, it was a big yell-fest.
I had a WoW year. When I graduated, the area and twig that I had built up from nothing was given to someone else (male), who had been unsuccessful in his WoW year, and he immediately ran off practically everyone my family had won; the area folded. I got kicked out of the WC (at the same time, losing my engagement to another Corps person) and all the last few believers (ex-WoWs) moved out back to the city they'd come from. I was left with no-one, no support, nothing. I had no self-esteem, no inner reserves, no confidence, nothing. No thing at all. Abandoned in a foreign country and too terrified to move to another city or even back to my home country. No friends in the new country; all my family and friendships in my home country in tatters.
Why? You might find this hard to believe, but the Corps Night teachings were heavy-duty indoctrination sessions about the greatness of TWI, no-one else knowing the Word, and the dangerous unreliability of mainstream Christians. I was terrified of other devil-possessed Christians. I was suspicious of everyone. I was significantly depressed, horrible, spiky, aggressive to people, and near suicidal. I would stand in front of my closet and burst into tears at the effort of choosing what clothes to wear. I burst into tears at most things, actually. My weight dropped by about 40lb; I looked so gaunt. Really, I have no idea how I functioned at all. My WoW boss had kept me on and she was a real rock. She didn't understand the inner turmoil, but her own marriage had broken down quite recently and she understood some of the pain I suffered.
I spent ten years in that ultra miserable state. The Lost Years, I call them. I cannot really remember what I did. Just vague things that only occasionally fit together. Somehow, after some years, I moved back to my home country. I was still desperately miserable and depressed. I can't begin to explain to you how dark those years were.
I knew I needed to get back to God. To the greatness of God's Word blah blah. I was ready to crawl over broken glass back to TWI. I needed to write the most grovelly letter ever and send to them. I looked them up on the net; needed the zip code. The google search redirected to Grease Spot Cafe. I was appalled by the horrendous stories I read (with horrified fascination) about this wonderful ministry that I'd let down so badly and disgraced myself (and God) with. But the more I read these horrifying stories on GSC, the more I saw the truth, there was a ring of truth, and I realised that how I'd been treated had been systematic abuse and psychological manipulation aimed at breaking me (and many others), but not, if you like, personal to me because I was such a rat-dang individual - just part of the pattern of abuse, especially of females. The scales fell from my eyes. My healing started.
Today, I am an active member of two churches, both of which have a laid-back feel to them. I thought I was kind and compassionate before; hah, nothing to what I am now. I'm involved with poor and disadvantaged people. I recognise signs of abuse and can help people move on. I can recognise God's loving kindness and demonstrate that to other people. I am safely held in God's hands and rely completely on him.
Would I do the same again?
I would seek after God. But I would listen to my wiser friends and family who weren't impressed by TWI's teachings.
I wouldn't wish the misery I endured at the hands of TWI on anyone. I would wish the closeness experienced within some twigs, on every group of Christians.
I can't change the past. I can only draw from it to enhance my future, and perhaps help others with their futures.
I wouldn't have wished to be where I am now.
I feel there is a lot that I could have done to help others, that has been stolen from me and stolen from God.
I have learned to be happy with my lot. Godliness with contentment is great gain. I know God loves me and will never never leave or forsake or abandon me. Despite my many failures and weaknesses, in which He delights because He can "show off" and help me through.
So, MRAP. Does that answer your question?
Yes, it changed my life. For good? For bad?
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outandabout
Sorry you suffered so much. You are right, it was a pattern of abuse, but we were not allowed to honestly express ourselves, so, like you, I thought it was just me that deserved to be yelled at, judged, ordered around, controlled, never appreciated, used by upper leadership and more.
Once we were out, from other Ex-Wayfers and Greasespot, that is when we learned we were not alone and it was IT, not us.
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Broken Arrow
I was very moved by your posts, Twinky and Out and About. I certainly hope for the best for both of you.
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Twinky
Thank you, Broken Arrow. It's been a hard and painful journey.
Hugs to you, Outie. :knuddel:/>
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Mark Sanguinetti
I read your post above Twinky. Sorry for the negatives that you experienced, but I am confident in your service to God and our Lord Jesus Christ and to our fellow humans. All I can say now is let's mix confidence with humility. Humility to learn from and serve other people. But also the wisdom and confidence to know when WE have greater knowledge and more godly application than others.
And it looks like your two cats are your adopted children. To you and your kitty cats
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Twinky
Yes, Mark, the two cats take the place of the absent kids.
I am constantly amazed by the awesomeness of the people I meet - the quiet but great works they have done, are doing. No great Bible teachings, just good solid Christian service. People who dedicate their lives to working in healthcare and educational fields in African countries; found orphanages for children in ex-Communist bloc countries; start missions or schools or work projects in India and other countries, including countries with significant anti-Christian ethos; spend weekends cooking lunches or soups or meals for homeless, vulnerable or not-well-off people in this city; running groups or organisations for kids at risk or to give their parents some breathing space; even just simply visiting elderly shut-ins. Nobody shouts about this; it's just "what they do." Very quietly, very solidly. Some of the projects have grown to become international charities.
And this is from just one church, with a current congregation of about 350 adults.
There are loads of other people in other churches in this city that I've got to know,of the same ilk (well, I get involved too, so I don't know many "bums on seats").
I also know some top-class theologians, with good Uni degrees and post-grad study. Prodigious intellects. But they don't flaunt this. Instead, they quietly and patiently, teach, share, explain, and keep themselves firmly on the ground and not on pedestals. They don't flaunt their "Rev"ness but dress "normally" and you wouldn't know they were vicars until you got into theological conversations with them.
I often wonder what I "bring to the party" - I just know that I am welcomed heartily and generously, and most people like being with me. Some even consider what I say (!) and think it wise. (Others wonder what part of "weird" I come from!)
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skyrider
AHA.....when they whispered in your ear, you considered
and so began your downfall.
Seriously, though Twinky......your story is gut wrenching. My heart and prayers
go out to you for this calamity that twi heaped upon you.
When one decides to go corps.....the undertaking of such is monumental.
Stop the direction of your current life and......redirect.
For some, stop your goals of higher education....and go WOW.
For some, give up your business goals.....and learn to live frugally.
For some, upend your lives and your kids' schools and friendships.
For some, charge into the future with a hope and a prayer.
.....believing that twi's corps program is worth it.
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outandabout
I ended up in Mississippi.
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skyrider
I ended up in Misery.
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JavaJane
Misery...? I'm in Miss-er-ah, as the locals pronounce it.
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Broken Arrow
Well, for my part I must say that I ended up in beautiful Idaho. So that part was great, except that I didn't have any money because I was "moving the Word".
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waysider
I wound up in the spiritual heart of the universe,
Well, we do have a river that's been known to catch fire, so that's nice.
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outandabout
Beuuuuuutuful Ohiiiiiiooooooooo (I guess you'd have to have been there)
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MRAP
TWI screwed me over: they took (accepted)my money, part of my youth, degraded me and built in me a mis-trust for all non-traditional Christian evangelical organizations.
I consider myself blessed or just plain lucky that I had a number of adult years under my belt when the twi exprience started. While in twi, it could have went super bad at any point, I almost applied for the WC but some debts preventeded me; never considered debts to be a blessing (sorry about that Uncle Harry).
The twi blessing to my life was totally inadvertent and unintended by twi. I put me in the right places at the right times to push forward in life.
Well, I could always thank the school bully who used to kick my foot for making me tougher and ....ed off enough to eventually take him down a few notches and thus, provide a sense of courage and capability.
That's how I view twi; luckily: no long standing damage. Strangely, the bully stopped being a bully and we became friends but that never happended with twi.
How can anyone not be empathetic to what twinky posted; twi makes folks more vulnerable in their lives (dependent) and then takes advantage of that vulnerability. (sorry, off topic and it's a thread I started).
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Mark Sanguinetti
Ohio is beautiful when you get to listen to the Ohio State band and perhaps even follow them around like they are the Pied Piper.
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skyrider
Yeah....how twi leader exploited Twinky is heart-wrenching.
Brings to mind the following threads:
Dependency: Twi's Sinister Plan
Manipulation of One's Consent
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MRAP
Before anyone comments further on this thread you must first access and read the links provided by WordWolf on page 2 of the "Irony of it all" thread within the Way forum.
Really, it will provide exceptional insight.
Those two links are 10 years old but some of you here today posted on those two thread links - like looking into the glass.
Enjoy and take a walk down memory lane. It will be emotional - at least I thought so.
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waysider
Lots of missing "puzzle pieces" scattered throughout those threads.
Sadly, some of the people on those threads have left the planet, as they say. Time waits for no one.
For better or for worse, my life was changed forever, one summer night in 1972 (or was it 1971? I can never get that part straight.)
I had some good times. I met some great people. We probably all did to some degree. I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if not for that fateful summer night. I'm sure it would have been different, much, much different.
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MRAP
waysider, you stepped smack dab into the middle of my thoughts: puzzle pieces.
That's what I was thinking throughout the reading of the two threads that WordWolf provided.
I also wondered, how many of the folks were still with us today.
The best and the worst of times somehow applies but time does not excuse much of anything; in reading those two threads there was alot more positive than negative. I also am a realist but that information was a confirmation to what I have held over the years and is why I started the twi good/bad experience thread - it seems like that thread was just and extension of other numerous threads.
We can despise twi for good reasons but we must also accept on how it made us grow and see how it changed the course in our lives - step up to the challenge and overcome the past and the twi of that time is certainly the past. Stangely, I have an interest in hitting up a twig just to see what is taught (like stopping in to see an old girlfriend), not to be a thorn in their side, I am just qurious.
Ten years and maybe more, you, waysider, have the same thoughtful yet humerous take on all the issues.
Bless you.
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WordWolf
I don't think they "MUST", but it's not a bad idea if they have the time.
The "Eyewitness" threads were meant to help us fill in the blanks for each other
and help form a more complete picture of what happened, and when.
The 1966-1975 thread:
The 1976 thread:
The 1977-1980 thread:
The 1981-1984 thread:
The 1985 thread:
The 1986-1988 thread:
The 1989-1992 thread:
There were other threads with twi history,
but that was it for this set.
(The thread for before 1966 never got an informative reply.)
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