I was watching the news on "The 700 Club" today and there was a story about reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance", that is, allegiance to the flag of the United States.
They reported that a high school principal in Middletown, New York had the Pledge of Allegiance read over the loudspeaker in Arabic. Apparently the school is in the middle of something called "National Foreign Language Week." Parents, students, and townspeople that were Jewish or lost family members fighting in Afghanistan were extremely offended. They complained to the Superintendent and the principal issued an apology. Pat Robertson, host of The 700 lead into the story by saying, "Could this be happening in America?"
Maybe I'm missing something here and if I am, maybe someone can help me understand.
Would you rather hear someone speaking Arabic say the Pledge of Allegiance, or would you rather hear them pledge to destroy the United States and its people? Isn't language simply a means of communication and neither evil or virtuous? Is there something sacred about the English language that surpasses all other languages? What does it matter if the Pledge of Allegiance is recited in English, Arabic, Spanish, French, German or what have you? Are they not all saying the Pledge?
They interviewed some townspeople and one of them said that soldiers fight for the Pledge to be said in English and therefore the principal was being disrespectful. Really? Soldiers fight for an English-recited pledge? Did I miss something? Because I always thought American soldiers fought to defend the U.S. Constitution, wherein there's something called the Bill of Rights that has this amendment that guarantees freedom of speech. By the way, Arabic is not the language of Afghanistan. We'll let the KKK rally on Statehouse lawns spewing their hate, but have someone read the Pledge in another language, no way. Does that make sense?
I would be interested to hear others' opinions. Especially active military and military veterans.
The pledge I took when I enlisted was to uphold the US Constitution.
The rest of the controversy is likely someone intentionally fomenting rage for political purposes.
Indeed, language is only a vehicle for communicating ideas.
I don't have any respect for Mr. Robertson, don't know what his motives may have been, but he probably exacerbated the situation regardless of his motives.
Я клянусь в верности флагу Соединенных Штатов Америки и республике, которую он стоит. Одна нация под Богом, со свободой и справедливостью для всех.
How does this work for ol' Pat?
or this...
Prometo lealtad a la bandera de los Estados Unidos de América ya la República que representa. Una nación, bajo Dios, con libertad y justicia para todos.
maybe this...
Sequebatur spondeo et vexillum Civitatum Americae rempublicam quibus substat. Gens sub Deo et iustitia in libertate.
Wouldn't it be better, rather than getting het up about what language is used, to consider what people's actions say?
"Liberty and justice for all"?
Can you honestly say that applies - in the USA (or perhaps in any other country)?
Do you even want "liberty...for all"? (Freedom from slavery yes, liberty for all no - murderers, rapists, prolific thieves, etc?)
Can you honestly say that everyone gets the same level of justice?
Does the size of one's pocket make a difference? The colour of one's skin? One's religion?
I say this thinking of the spate of police killings of young black males who may or may not have committed an offence.
How can you be "one nation indivisible" when many Americans are so very proud of their Irish/Italian/Jewish/Amish/Martian background and stay closely within that racial group with little intermixing with other groups?
We used to be all about being a melting pot (theoretically - not actually), now we are all about multi-culturalism. However, most people get along best in a homogeneous setting.
We just need to really enlarge our idea of what "we" looks like.
EDIT: I cannot believe I got my too - to(s) mixed up in #4. I am so embarrassed.
Wouldn't it be better, rather than getting het up about what language is used, to consider what people's actions say?
Yes, absolutely! My point exactly!
"Liberty and justice for all"?
Can you honestly say that applies - in the USA (or perhaps in any other country)?
No, but it's a good ideal to strive for.
Do you even want "liberty...for all"? (Freedom from slavery yes, liberty for all no - murderers, rapists, prolific thieves, etc?)
Yes. Murderers, thieves etc. forsook their right to liberty, and they are receiving the justice they deserve.
Can you honestly say that everyone gets the same level of justice?
Absolutely not!
Does the size of one's pocket make a difference? The colour of one's skin? One's religion?
Unfortunately it all too often does.
I say this thinking of the spate of police killings of young black males who may or may not have committed an offence.
It's all good. Now they're beating up young teenage black schoolgirls as well.
How can you be "one nation indivisible" when many Americans are so very proud of their Irish/Italian/Jewish/Amish/Martian background and stay closely within that racial group with little intermixing with other groups?
Supposedly Americans come together as one in spite of their differences. Sometimes that's been true, sometimes not so much.
A bit of prep time by the principal would have been appropriate: inform the populace as to the why of it all. This is not about Pat, it's about making a political statement and for that, the principal is wrong.
Recited in a language other than English, I have no issue if it is done for the noble reasons that have been listed above but it was done to excite and that is not what we are about.
Some of my most trusted fellow soldiers back in the day were Iraqi and spoke Arabic, I enjoyed the language (not the only language spoken in Iraq and leastly in Afghanistan). At the time, I knew only little of their languages to communicate, they were all very understanding.
Here's the point: a bit of fore warning with an explanation by the principal would have gone a long way to having made it a momentuous event - the principal did not exercise correct discretion.
Twinky, your comment is understood but you left out "justice" (those folks are getting their justice - as promised in the pledge).
Realize, not all non-english words translate directly to English, so to say the pledge in a non-english language may not carry the same weight and then again, it may carry even more weight/emphasis.
Really, Broken Arrow, in the words of Ripley in Aliens: "You started it, show me everything!"
You said you were missing something and needed to understand, so, what do you now understand?
We are looking to your evaluation of all the information provided to come to a conclusion - make your point and at least I for one, will say no more and we can close out this thread that you started.
Jeez MRAP! You expect me to actually have a point? Man, you have high standards.
I don't think it's a horrible affront to the United State or anyone else to have the Pledge of Allegiance recited in a language besides English. If people of another ethnicity living in the U.S. are showing allegiance to the U.S. in whatever language I think it's a good thing. I've had emails come to my personal inbox saying things like we have to act NOW because folks are reciting the Pledge in Spanish, as if that's a sign of the country being overrun. In my opinion such thinking belies a bigotry that exists in a lot of people and I think that's very very sad. So I'm still at a bit of a loss as to why some people get so "jacked up" about what language someone recites the Pledge in.
Having said that, I think you and others make a good point when you say the principal mishandled the situation. It was fairly easy to foresee that doing this would cause a stir and, right or wrong, some people would be offended. I had not thought of that.
I also think Twinky makes a good point when she mentions that actions are more important than words. Could it be that we make too big of a deal about the Pledge in the first place? I don't think so but then again I was born and raised in the U.S. Nevertheless, to have love and respect for one's nation is a good thing as long as those things stay within bounds.
I suppose it could be a political topic but I was more focused on people's mindsets. I find it ludicrous that people could be so offended because a "sacred" poem (I don't really believe it's sacred but some do) is recited in a language other than English. Even though the words mean the same thing. So I'm not really discussing the appropriateness of the Pledge of Allegiance itself in this particular thread.
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Rocky
The pledge I took when I enlisted was to uphold the US Constitution.
The rest of the controversy is likely someone intentionally fomenting rage for political purposes.
Indeed, language is only a vehicle for communicating ideas.
I don't have any respect for Mr. Robertson, don't know what his motives may have been, but he probably exacerbated the situation regardless of his motives.
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waysider
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Tzaia
1. The decision, when it was made, was determined to be controversial. Why it was deemed "the right thing to do" is worth examination - or not.
2. People get offended way to easily.
3. People like Pat Robertson thrive on #2.
4. People cave far to often to people who get offended easily.
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Ron G.
Я клянусь в верности флагу Соединенных Штатов Америки и республике, которую он стоит. Одна нация под Богом, со свободой и справедливостью для всех.
How does this work for ol' Pat?
or this...
Prometo lealtad a la bandera de los Estados Unidos de América ya la República que representa. Una nación, bajo Dios, con libertad y justicia para todos.
maybe this...
Sequebatur spondeo et vexillum Civitatum Americae rempublicam quibus substat. Gens sub Deo et iustitia in libertate.
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Twinky
Wouldn't it be better, rather than getting het up about what language is used, to consider what people's actions say?
"Liberty and justice for all"?
Can you honestly say that applies - in the USA (or perhaps in any other country)?
Do you even want "liberty...for all"? (Freedom from slavery yes, liberty for all no - murderers, rapists, prolific thieves, etc?)
Can you honestly say that everyone gets the same level of justice?
Does the size of one's pocket make a difference? The colour of one's skin? One's religion?
I say this thinking of the spate of police killings of young black males who may or may not have committed an offence.
How can you be "one nation indivisible" when many Americans are so very proud of their Irish/Italian/Jewish/Amish/Martian background and stay closely within that racial group with little intermixing with other groups?
(Ducks for cover...!)
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Tzaia
We used to be all about being a melting pot (theoretically - not actually), now we are all about multi-culturalism. However, most people get along best in a homogeneous setting.
We just need to really enlarge our idea of what "we" looks like.
EDIT: I cannot believe I got my too - to(s) mixed up in #4. I am so embarrassed.
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Twinky
Two too many to choose from, Tzaia.
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waysider
At least you didn't confuse it with TUTU.
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Broken Arrow
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MRAP
A bit of prep time by the principal would have been appropriate: inform the populace as to the why of it all. This is not about Pat, it's about making a political statement and for that, the principal is wrong.
Recited in a language other than English, I have no issue if it is done for the noble reasons that have been listed above but it was done to excite and that is not what we are about.
Some of my most trusted fellow soldiers back in the day were Iraqi and spoke Arabic, I enjoyed the language (not the only language spoken in Iraq and leastly in Afghanistan). At the time, I knew only little of their languages to communicate, they were all very understanding.
Here's the point: a bit of fore warning with an explanation by the principal would have gone a long way to having made it a momentuous event - the principal did not exercise correct discretion.
Twinky, your comment is understood but you left out "justice" (those folks are getting their justice - as promised in the pledge).
Realize, not all non-english words translate directly to English, so to say the pledge in a non-english language may not carry the same weight and then again, it may carry even more weight/emphasis.
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Broken Arrow
Never mind.
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MRAP
Really, Broken Arrow, in the words of Ripley in Aliens: "You started it, show me everything!"
You said you were missing something and needed to understand, so, what do you now understand?
We are looking to your evaluation of all the information provided to come to a conclusion - make your point and at least I for one, will say no more and we can close out this thread that you started.
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Broken Arrow
Jeez MRAP! You expect me to actually have a point? Man, you have high standards.
I don't think it's a horrible affront to the United State or anyone else to have the Pledge of Allegiance recited in a language besides English. If people of another ethnicity living in the U.S. are showing allegiance to the U.S. in whatever language I think it's a good thing. I've had emails come to my personal inbox saying things like we have to act NOW because folks are reciting the Pledge in Spanish, as if that's a sign of the country being overrun. In my opinion such thinking belies a bigotry that exists in a lot of people and I think that's very very sad. So I'm still at a bit of a loss as to why some people get so "jacked up" about what language someone recites the Pledge in.
Having said that, I think you and others make a good point when you say the principal mishandled the situation. It was fairly easy to foresee that doing this would cause a stir and, right or wrong, some people would be offended. I had not thought of that.
I also think Twinky makes a good point when she mentions that actions are more important than words. Could it be that we make too big of a deal about the Pledge in the first place? I don't think so but then again I was born and raised in the U.S. Nevertheless, to have love and respect for one's nation is a good thing as long as those things stay within bounds.
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johniam
When I went on that Alaskan cruise last year they sang happy birthday to me in Russian during dinner. I was not offended.
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Bluzeman
Sounds like a political topic.
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Broken Arrow
I suppose it could be a political topic but I was more focused on people's mindsets. I find it ludicrous that people could be so offended because a "sacred" poem (I don't really believe it's sacred but some do) is recited in a language other than English. Even though the words mean the same thing. So I'm not really discussing the appropriateness of the Pledge of Allegiance itself in this particular thread.
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