Back before Tim Drake got his own comic, they tested out a miniseries for him (then another, then another.)
In the first one, he completed his combat training, and defeated Sir Edmund Dorrance ("King Snake.")
In the 2nd series, he went up solo against the Joker and won.
In the letter columns, the fans reacted.
"Who's he going to face in the next miniseries-Doomsday?" (Superman's "killer".)
The writers had a problem with Drake, in that he'd have to explain why he could take out KGBeast but not King Snake (or was it the other way around -- we're talking about two decades ago).
There was also the problem of who could beat whom in a fight. Was Lady Shiva the toughest? Or Batman? Or Cassandra Cain? They would explain that the Joker could occasionally beat Batman or Cassandra, because his fighting style was so "unpredictable." (There was a time when Connor Hawke took over for his dad as Green Arrow. Batman opined that Connor was a better fighter than Batman, but that he was the better archer.)
I liked the Darrkh series, because it brought back John Constantine, however briefly, and Vixen. Nuking the planet was a bit over the top, but not too different from the global catastrophes envisioned by Ra's al Ghul in the comics.
Maybe the next season will return Arrow more to its "roots," and we'll all be happy.
The writers had a problem with Drake, in that he'd have to explain why he could take out KGBeast but not King Snake (or was it the other way around -- we're talking about two decades ago).
There was also the problem of who could beat whom in a fight. Was Lady Shiva the toughest? Or Batman? Or Cassandra Cain? They would explain that the Joker could occasionally beat Batman or Cassandra, because his fighting style was so "unpredictable." (There was a time when Connor Hawke took over for his dad as Green Arrow. Batman opined that Connor was a better fighter than Batman, but that he was the better archer.) :rolleyes:/>
I liked the Darrkh series, because it brought back John Constantine, however briefly, and Vixen. Nuking the planet was a bit over the top, but not too different from the global catastrophes envisioned by Ra's al Ghul in the comics.
Maybe the next season will return Arrow more to its "roots," and we'll all be happy. :dance:/>
George
Who can beat who in a fight keeps fluctuating. Some I know based on who DID beat who, like in "Brotherhood of the Fist."
Connor Hawke beat Bamboo Monkey who took down Nightwing, all in single combat, so that's a quick list of 3 ranked among each other.
Lady Shiva and Connor Hawke were almost a tie, with Shiva eventually winning.
Batman, however, has beaten Lady Shiva on at least 1 occasion (during "Death in the Family") in single combat.
So, Batman over Lady Shiva over Connor Hawke, based solely on past performance.
I think something happened later that said Shiva lost her edge, so to speak, and no longer was at her peak.
Cassandra Cain's skill level has been all over the map.
The Joker should not even make "honorable mention." In single combat, everybody in the top tiers
should smack him around. The Joker keeps up by CHEATING. Scarecrow, at least, has a fighting style-
his "violent dancing" seems to borrow from Capoeira and Tae Kwon Do, but not Savate because he
spins and does not kick by chambering the leg (Savate's signature kicks.)
In short, it depends on the writers. IMHO, Chuck Dixon was the most knowledgeable at writing this,
and he got too fed up with DC to work there anymore. I don't know how knowledgeable Tomasi and
Nicieza are at this, but they were probably the others who could write these scenes competently.
Catching up on Agents of SHIELD. Damn good season so far. What's everyone else's status with this show? I'm 11 episodes into season 3. There's been a major death and sort of resurrection. I'm still trying to sort that out.
I'm completely caught up on all of the shows. (I usually am, within a week of their airing.)
Maybe it's part of the charm of SHIELD, but I'm getting a little tired of "who's the traitor, this week?" No major complaints about the show, though; but I'd put it at the bottom of my super-hero TV list. Since you asked :lol: here's my ranking. YMMD.
I've been a lurker – checking out this thread every so often; just wanted to say a few things.
I was sort of embarrassed to tell anyone I watched Supergirl – until I started reading this thread and realized it is a cool show; so is The Flash – I've only watched a few episodes of it – but have watched all of Supergirl episodes and so caught the crossover one with The Flash.
I wish there was more time to watch all the great shows you all have mentioned – for now I have to pick and choose. What impresses me the most about the DC TV shows is that they make the characters believable – they have bad days just like anyone else; that's a good development – when I was a kid and a big comic book fan i noticed it was Marvel's super heroes that seem to have had more personal issues – and that made them more real to me.
I also liked that little dis of Superman in the Myriad episode – where you can only see his legs & red boots on the gurney behind Supergirl and whoever she was talking to – I can't remember – so funny.
On 5/29/2016 at 6:28 PM, GeorgeStGeorge said:
The writers had a problem with Drake, in that he'd have to explain why he could take out KGBeast but not King Snake (or was it the other way around -- we're talking about two decades ago).
There was also the problem of who could beat whom in a fight. Was Lady Shiva the toughest? Or Batman? Or Cassandra Cain? They would explain that the Joker could occasionally beat Batman or Cassandra, because his fighting style was so "unpredictable." (There was a time when Connor Hawke took over for his dad as Green Arrow. Batman opined that Connor was a better fighter than Batman, but that he was the better archer.)
I liked the Darrkh series, because it brought back John Constantine, however briefly, and Vixen. Nuking the planet was a bit over the top, but not too different from the global catastrophes envisioned by Ra's al Ghul in the comics.
Maybe the next season will return Arrow more to its "roots," and we'll all be happy.
George
It seems that "Arrow" may be darker, again. Definitely, some of the scenes in this season's first episode are reminiscent of Season 1.
And there's even a new, mystery archer-in-black!
On the other hand, Flash is certainly different, so far...
Did you ever get the impression that the "new present" was so bad that the only solution was to go back and let his mother die? Now he has to go back and stop himself from stopping himself from saving her life, then stop himself from saving her life. Too much!
DC seems to think the solution to every problem nowadays is another reboot. It was fine once a decade, but Flasnpoint was right after "Final Crisis" which was right after "Infinite Crisis" and their reboot which was so inferior it took all 52 chapters of 52 to fix it. I hope they work out a resolution in in the present and don't need to inferfere AGAIN. I just want them to stop messing with the timestream so we can have more normal stories (like Arrow and LoT) without the timestream rebooting around them.
I read a criticism of something (the HP musical or whatever) that pointed out that resolutions that rely on time-travel are the weaker resolutions to story issues. The author must go back a chapter or 2 and start over, without the character altering time. I'm also fascinated that the time wraiths (black flashes) didn't show the slightest interest in all this.
Not happy with the direction of Flash 3.1 and 3.2. He HAS to go back to that night once more. Letting things sit the way they are now is depressing. And we still haven't seen Barry do that "wave him off" thing he did at the end of season 1. If it doesn't happen, that's cheating.
Looking forward to Legends of Tomorrow with the return of Jonah Hex.
It's nice to see Superman, but I really hope he doesn't become a major part of the show.
The "J'onn J'onzz keeps Kryptonite around" deal simply means that Superman doesn't trust him (yet). The Superman WE know GAVE Batman some Kryptonite, just in case he (Superman) went off the rails. J'onn not only has to consider that, but we've already seen a bunch of evil Kryptonians around. Heck, I'D keep green K around, if I could find some!
Didn't Ted Grant get killed in Arrow a couple of years ago? Maybe he just got severely injured and hasn't shown up, since.
I missed the Vigilante nod. I, too, read the series, back in the day.
My biggest problem with this season? Supergirl, Gotham, and BBT all on at the same time, and I can only DVR two of them. I'll have to try catching BBT from the CBS website.
Ted Grant was injured in that big street melee for the city, but he survived. Arsenal interrupted his attempted killer. One of the staffers confirmed the character is alive despite the actor possibly being unavailable. We can still hear he's being used to train fighters "off-panel." "Ï Love Lucy" mentioned Mrs Trumble doing a lot in later seasons even without bringing in the actress-her and her son agreed to watch the building for the Mertzes so they could move away with the Ricardos.
The Vigilante thing? When Felicity had those computer file dossiers on recruits, the rightmost one had a black-and-white George Perez sketch of Vigilante on the cover of the folder. Felicity referred to him as "Mister Ski Goggles."
Looks like I finally have an edge. Although they all are later here than there, all of those shows air on the same network here- Warner. "Agents of SHIELD" airs on Sony. Season One of Supergirl aired on Warner, also.
I got the impression from an earlier post that you were now able to watch things essentially current. I know that, in the past, you've been about a week or two behind, due to the tardiness of shows airing in your neighborhood.
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WordWolf
It was a direct quote of the LoT "Invasion!" episode,.at 6:20. "Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra!" "I'll take that as 'have fun storming the castle." "Oh. For real? You're gonna use Princess Bride
GeorgeStGeorge
That's what happens with Ralph Dibny in the mix. (Of course, Gypsy's dad was a hoot, too.) George
GeorgeStGeorge
The writers had a problem with Drake, in that he'd have to explain why he could take out KGBeast but not King Snake (or was it the other way around -- we're talking about two decades ago).
There was also the problem of who could beat whom in a fight. Was Lady Shiva the toughest? Or Batman? Or Cassandra Cain? They would explain that the Joker could occasionally beat Batman or Cassandra, because his fighting style was so "unpredictable." (There was a time when Connor Hawke took over for his dad as Green Arrow. Batman opined that Connor was a better fighter than Batman, but that he was the better archer.)
I liked the Darrkh series, because it brought back John Constantine, however briefly, and Vixen. Nuking the planet was a bit over the top, but not too different from the global catastrophes envisioned by Ra's al Ghul in the comics.
Maybe the next season will return Arrow more to its "roots," and we'll all be happy.
George
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WordWolf
Ok, finished all the DC stuff last week.
(We're saving the Marvel stuff for mid-season, so "Agent Carter" and "Agents of SHIELD",
please sssshhhh. )
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WordWolf
Who can beat who in a fight keeps fluctuating. Some I know based on who DID beat who, like in "Brotherhood of the Fist."
Connor Hawke beat Bamboo Monkey who took down Nightwing, all in single combat, so that's a quick list of 3 ranked among each other.
Lady Shiva and Connor Hawke were almost a tie, with Shiva eventually winning.
Batman, however, has beaten Lady Shiva on at least 1 occasion (during "Death in the Family") in single combat.
So, Batman over Lady Shiva over Connor Hawke, based solely on past performance.
I think something happened later that said Shiva lost her edge, so to speak, and no longer was at her peak.
Cassandra Cain's skill level has been all over the map.
The Joker should not even make "honorable mention." In single combat, everybody in the top tiers
should smack him around. The Joker keeps up by CHEATING. Scarecrow, at least, has a fighting style-
his "violent dancing" seems to borrow from Capoeira and Tae Kwon Do, but not Savate because he
spins and does not kick by chambering the leg (Savate's signature kicks.)
In short, it depends on the writers. IMHO, Chuck Dixon was the most knowledgeable at writing this,
and he got too fed up with DC to work there anymore. I don't know how knowledgeable Tomasi and
Nicieza are at this, but they were probably the others who could write these scenes competently.
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Raf
Catching up on Agents of SHIELD. Damn good season so far. What's everyone else's status with this show? I'm 11 episodes into season 3. There's been a major death and sort of resurrection. I'm still trying to sort that out.
And I love that they made use of Powers Booth.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I'm completely caught up on all of the shows. (I usually am, within a week of their airing.)
Maybe it's part of the charm of SHIELD, but I'm getting a little tired of "who's the traitor, this week?" No major complaints about the show, though; but I'd put it at the bottom of my super-hero TV list. Since you asked :lol: here's my ranking. YMMD.
Legends of Tomorrow
Supergirl
Flash
Gotham
Arrow
SHIELD
George
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T-Bone
Hey all,
I've been a lurker – checking out this thread every so often; just wanted to say a few things.
I was sort of embarrassed to tell anyone I watched Supergirl – until I started reading this thread and realized it is a cool show; so is The Flash – I've only watched a few episodes of it – but have watched all of Supergirl episodes and so caught the crossover one with The Flash.
I wish there was more time to watch all the great shows you all have mentioned – for now I have to pick and choose. What impresses me the most about the DC TV shows is that they make the characters believable – they have bad days just like anyone else; that's a good development – when I was a kid and a big comic book fan i noticed it was Marvel's super heroes that seem to have had more personal issues – and that made them more real to me.
I also liked that little dis of Superman in the Myriad episode – where you can only see his legs & red boots on the gurney behind Supergirl and whoever she was talking to – I can't remember – so funny.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Stop by any time, T-Bone! And Tonto, too, if she's so inclined.
George
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T-Bone
thanks - will do George
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GeorgeStGeorge
By the way, we wouldn't mind another player or two in the game threads... Just sayin'.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
It seems that "Arrow" may be darker, again. Definitely, some of the scenes in this season's first episode are reminiscent of Season 1.
And there's even a new, mystery archer-in-black!
On the other hand, Flash is certainly different, so far...
George
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Raf
Not impressed with the premiere of Flash. Seems to have opened up YET ANOTHER return visit to that night.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Yeah. Getting pretty crowded, there!
George
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Raf
Did you ever get the impression that the "new present" was so bad that the only solution was to go back and let his mother die? Now he has to go back and stop himself from stopping himself from saving her life, then stop himself from saving her life. Too much!
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GeorgeStGeorge
I don't know how much to go into, until WW chimes in.
I didn't think the "new now" was all that bad, though.
Of course, this is from the new, new, new, new, new, new ...[counts fingers]...new, NEW DC, where the only constant is change.
George
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WordWolf
DC seems to think the solution to every problem nowadays is another reboot. It was fine once a decade, but Flasnpoint was right after "Final Crisis" which was right after "Infinite Crisis" and their reboot which was so inferior it took all 52 chapters of 52 to fix it. I hope they work out a resolution in in the present and don't need to inferfere AGAIN. I just want them to stop messing with the timestream so we can have more normal stories (like Arrow and LoT) without the timestream rebooting around them.
I read a criticism of something (the HP musical or whatever) that pointed out that resolutions that rely on time-travel are the weaker resolutions to story issues. The author must go back a chapter or 2 and start over, without the character altering time. I'm also fascinated that the time wraiths (black flashes) didn't show the slightest interest in all this.
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Raf
Supergirl 2.1 was excellent.
Not caught up on Arrow.
Not happy with the direction of Flash 3.1 and 3.2. He HAS to go back to that night once more. Letting things sit the way they are now is depressing. And we still haven't seen Barry do that "wave him off" thing he did at the end of season 1. If it doesn't happen, that's cheating.
Looking forward to Legends of Tomorrow with the return of Jonah Hex.
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GeorgeStGeorge
It's nice to see Superman, but I really hope he doesn't become a major part of the show.
The "J'onn J'onzz keeps Kryptonite around" deal simply means that Superman doesn't trust him (yet). The Superman WE know GAVE Batman some Kryptonite, just in case he (Superman) went off the rails. J'onn not only has to consider that, but we've already seen a bunch of evil Kryptonians around. Heck, I'D keep green K around, if I could find some!
George
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WordWolf
I'm about a week behind on most shows I follow. That's Big Bang Theory, Flash, Arrow, Gotham, and Supergirl (and LoT.)
I'm about a year behind on "Agents of SHIELD" (and Agent Carter, for that matter),
and further behind on "Elementary."
Hey, George, the nod to "Vigilante" in Arrow, did you catch it? I first thought it would be Adrian Chase
(I used to collect his series), but his successor seems the more obvious choice. And I plain forgot about
WIld Dog, so I never considered him memorable. Maybe that will change. I'm hoping Ted Grant gets tapped
to do training. Oh, and Mrs Wolf called it last season on what they'd do with Quentin Lance.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Didn't Ted Grant get killed in Arrow a couple of years ago? Maybe he just got severely injured and hasn't shown up, since.
I missed the Vigilante nod. I, too, read the series, back in the day.
My biggest problem with this season? Supergirl, Gotham, and BBT all on at the same time, and I can only DVR two of them. I'll have to try catching BBT from the CBS website.
George
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WordWolf
Ted Grant was injured in that big street melee for the city, but he survived. Arsenal interrupted his attempted killer. One of the staffers confirmed the character is alive despite the actor possibly being unavailable. We can still hear he's being used to train fighters "off-panel." "Ï Love Lucy" mentioned Mrs Trumble doing a lot in later seasons even without bringing in the actress-her and her son agreed to watch the building for the Mertzes so they could move away with the Ricardos.
The Vigilante thing? When Felicity had those computer file dossiers on recruits, the rightmost one had a black-and-white George Perez sketch of Vigilante on the cover of the folder. Felicity referred to him as "Mister Ski Goggles."
Looks like I finally have an edge. Although they all are later here than there, all of those shows air on the same network here- Warner. "Agents of SHIELD" airs on Sony. Season One of Supergirl aired on Warner, also.
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GeorgeStGeorge
By now, I'm sure you've seen Adrian Chase on "Arrow." Coincidence? I think not.
George
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WordWolf
He was on last week's episode and I didn't recognize him?
*checks*
No, he was on this week's episode and George tricked me into looking up spoilers online.
George, it's not like I'm sitting around, waiting for them to air. I have to watch them when I can-
and when Mrs Wolf and I can watch them together in the case of "Arrow", "Flash" "LoT" or Big BT".
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GeorgeStGeorge
Sorry, Dude.
I got the impression from an earlier post that you were now able to watch things essentially current. I know that, in the past, you've been about a week or two behind, due to the tardiness of shows airing in your neighborhood.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Don't know who's seen the latest LoT, but there was a cute homage to "Back to the Future."
Of course, they also had the "Sound of Music" fallacy that "Edelweiss" was a popular German song...
George
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