It seems "Arrowverse-adjacent," in that DC super-heroes are involved, but not in the same way as in other CW shows. E.g., Superman is an urban legend. He does exist but does not operate openly. One of the main characters is Thanagarian. The third episode introduced Adam Blake. It took me a few seconds to remember that that's Captain Comet, though this version seems to be more of a telepathic hippie.
First they make you think Doomsday is coming, and it turns out to be Bizarro. Now we have a long Bizarro arc. (In this manifestation, Bizarros look just like mirror images of the Earth characters and behave "normally," except that they speak backwards. It would be interesting to see Bizarro Zatanna.)
These were probably spoilers, but it seems that I'm the only one watching the shows in "real time."
You are, but you're helping me agree to watch the shows at all. (I think I'm going to catch up to "Moon Knight" first, since I was a big fan of his long ago.)
Not sure if this qualifies as "super-hero," but the CW network will soon premiere "Tom Swift." The book series generally had him as a teen-age inventor akin to a young MacGyver. In the CW version, he's black (of course) and gay (of course). The trailers look interesting.
Since Tom Swift is in the public domain, they can get away with doing anything to him. They aren't the first- there's been novels- and I doubt they will be the last. I'll be skipping this version.
Tom Swift in the CW version seems to be a gay, black Tony Stark. Rich, brilliant, self-absorbed. He even has an AI like Jarvis, though his is called Barclay (voiced, interestingly, by LeVar Burton).
The opening episode had some interesting plot beginnings. The show is not bad, but also not compelling.
I get the feeling that when I catch up, I'll finish Legends of Tomorrow and catch all of Naomi, and Flash, Superman and Lois, and Stargirl, not in a specific order. These will probably be ENORMOUS binges.
You are, but you're helping me agree to watch the shows at all. (I think I'm going to catch up to "Moon Knight" first, since I was a big fan of his long ago.)
I did catch Moon Knight. It was different, but interesting. It wasn't the version of MK I preferred, but they never seem to know what to do with him, so that's no surprise. (Is he like Batman, or the Shadow, or does he have super-strength, or does he have multiple personalities.....) I approve of the newer versions of Anton Mogart/the Midnight Man and of the Scarlet Scarab (sorry, Abdul Farouk was a stereotype.) If season 2 brings us Bushman, I'm going to be surprised because he's a black villain and, well..... There's plenty of other foes to bring in, just from the comic book. Morpheus and the Black Spectre alone can carry a season. Stained-Glass Scarlett could be brought in for a complete left turn, and so on. BTW, I miss Jake's fake moustache, and the diner he used to go to for information. But, I expect I'm in the minority there, both times. I think whoever did this new version did some work and went through all of the character's history, and I appreciate the little details they included.
This week's Flash has a Ray Palmer cameo (for no apparent reason, except perhaps for some comic relief). We also learn more about John Diggle's box with the green, shiny thing. Apparently NOT a GL ring.
Before I comment on the season finales of Superman and Lois and Flash, a comment about Tom Swift, Batwoman, and Naomi.
The Cosby Show did very well for many years. Although the cast was almost all black, the themes were relatable to most of America. It didn't target a black audience.
This latest round of CW shows basically seem designed to appeal to black gays. (Maybe not Naomi, so much.) So, if your audience is ~ 1% of the population, you're just not going to get good ratings. Batwoman made it a couple of seasons, Naomi only one. I don't see Tom Swift being a hit, either. It's almost too bad, because the main story line isn't bad, but when Swift or someone else in the cast isn't railing about social justice, Swift is hitting on every other gay on the show. (And there seems to be a disproportionate number of them.)
That's the thing. Under capitalism, people vote with their dollar. In the case of television, they vote with their viewership. If your show lacks broad appeal, it will lack broad viewership. If it targets a niche market, you will have niche ratings.
Both DC and Marvel seem to be putting a lot of that niche entertainment out now. In the case of Marvel, one of the executives has set, as a goal, 50% of ALL protagonists in Marvel to be lgbt+ . I don't know how far they will get, but their attempts keep resulting in shows with dismal ratings. Eventually, both companies will have to decide whether it suits them to do this sort of thing regularly, or not. My complaints also include changing characters to make them fit quotas. I don't recognize their "Eternals" because they changed a lot of things. It improved nothing that one of the actresses (Angelina Jolie) berated the fans for not embracing their changed characters wholeheartedly. It just showed another example of someone who just doesn't "get it." I mean, there's a way to address fan concerns and still promote something. But just dismissing complaints about the depictions categorically is not going to work.
The Cosby Show was largely about a family in the US. They could have been any ethnicity, and the early seasons could have had them OF any ethnicity. So, the settings and jokes had a broad appeal.
DC has "retrofit" a number of characters into gay or bi. Jon Kent and Tim Drake come immediately to mind. And almost every new character has to be black (Naomi, the new Batman), gay, or both (the new Aquaman, Nubia). I have a friend who believes that DC (and perhaps Marvel) don't actually care if they sell another comic as long as they can continue to merchandise the properties. Sad, but believable.
George
PS: Having never read the Eternals, I had no preconceptions about the characters. Maybe that's why I liked the movie.
I don't think your friend is correct, but I think there's some truth to that. The merchandising and multimedia money is a lot more than the money for the comics, so the comics can be seen as the source for what generates revenue in other media, and if the comics are break-even, that's fine. But, they DO have to actually SELL the comics to retain all rights and renew all copyrights and trademarks. It's the same reason Marvel kept bringing in one Captain Marvel or another- to hang onto the rights to the comic book name just so DC couldn't get it.
Seeing anyone just fiddle with Kirby's characters bugs me- and that includes the Eternals. Then again, I don't think Marvel knows what to do with them, anyway. The Inhumans were used as a substitute for mutants since Sony has the X-Men rights, but the Eternals are markedly different.
On to the Flash and Superman and Lois season finales.
Both of the shows are more "team" shows than focusing on the individual heroes. Team Flash has gone through about as many cast changes as the Legends. Well, no. we've only traded Ralph and Cisco for Allegra, Cecile, and Chunk, but it just seems to have a different tenor. I thought the addition of the Still, Strength, and Sage forces was silly, though they've been in the comic for a while. But now there are good AND EVIL forces? At least it all got sorted out at the end. Now we just have to find out what happened to Frost... It's always good to see JW Shipp as Jay Garrick. It's fun that his wife Joan is played by the same actress who plays Nora West/Speed Force but is almost unrecognizable.
Team Superman includes his family, John and Natasha Irons, and his mostly-evil-but-sometimes-good brother Tal. A few others get read in to the secret identity thing. I wondered why we didn't see Kara or any other heroes (other than the Ironses) help out. Something Sam Lane says in the finale indicates that although THIS Superman looks exactly like the Superman in the Crisis crossover, he's NOT the same one, as "whole leagues of heroes are on other earths." The main story line dragged out too long, IMHO, but there were nice touches. Bizarro World is cubic. When there is a big celebration for Superman and cohorts saving the world, some kids had Superman costumes on; others were dressed up like Steel or Natasha.
I wonder if David Ramsey has some sort of ten-year contract with CW. He seems to have a cameo appearance in almost every show. He showed up in Flash a couple of weeks ago just to show that the green glowy wasn't a power ring. Now he appears in S&L to ask Irons if he knows who Bruno Mannheim is. Apparently Intergang will be the first threat of next season. It just occurred to me that this is a different John Diggle, since it's a different universe. I guess that's why the different haircut...
Well, "Tom Swift"'s series finale ended with a cliffhanger, so it appears that a projected second season will not happen. The show had its moments, but I'm sure it didn't appeal to a wide audience.
Kevin Conroy, the voice of Batman in almost every cartoon for the last 30 years, passed away a few days ago after a short battle with cancer. You might also remember his appearance in the CW cross-over "Crisis on Infinite Earths," where he played a dark version of Batman akin to Frank Miller's Dark Knight. His co-workers, including Mark Hamill, who was Joker to Conroy's Batman, have only praise for his work and more so for his character.
My understanding is that Stargirl is not being renewed after this season. So Flash and Superman and Lois are the last DC shows standing. (Arrow, Supergirl, Legends, Batwoman, Black Lightning, and Naomi all gone.) Titans is still around, I guess, and Harley Quinn, but both are on HBO with later showings on TNT.
Stargirl ended its run on a high note. Most of the action of the last episode ends about 40 minutes in, with the rest of the time tying up loose ends. The Shade gives the recap (including a reference to Justice League of America 100 -- I wonder if I'm the only one who got it), with a surprise cameo at the end, indicating possible future adventures. If you haven't watched the show at all, you still might like this episode. If you've been watching it, I'm sure you'll like it.
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WordWolf
It was a direct quote of the LoT "Invasion!" episode,.at 6:20. "Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra!" "I'll take that as 'have fun storming the castle." "Oh. For real? You're gonna use Princess Bride
GeorgeStGeorge
That's what happens with Ralph Dibny in the mix. (Of course, Gypsy's dad was a hoot, too.) George
GeorgeStGeorge
Naomi may actually be OK.
It seems "Arrowverse-adjacent," in that DC super-heroes are involved, but not in the same way as in other CW shows. E.g., Superman is an urban legend. He does exist but does not operate openly. One of the main characters is Thanagarian. The third episode introduced Adam Blake. It took me a few seconds to remember that that's Captain Comet, though this version seems to be more of a telepathic hippie.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Superman and Lois continues to impress.
First they make you think Doomsday is coming, and it turns out to be Bizarro. Now we have a long Bizarro arc. (In this manifestation, Bizarros look just like mirror images of the Earth characters and behave "normally," except that they speak backwards. It would be interesting to see Bizarro Zatanna.)
These were probably spoilers, but it seems that I'm the only one watching the shows in "real time."
George
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WordWolf
You are, but you're helping me agree to watch the shows at all. (I think I'm going to catch up to "Moon Knight" first, since I was a big fan of his long ago.)
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GeorgeStGeorge
Not sure if this qualifies as "super-hero," but the CW network will soon premiere "Tom Swift." The book series generally had him as a teen-age inventor akin to a young MacGyver. In the CW version, he's black (of course) and gay (of course). The trailers look interesting.
George
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WordWolf
Since Tom Swift is in the public domain, they can get away with doing anything to him. They aren't the first- there's been novels- and I doubt they will be the last. I'll be skipping this version.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Apparently, the CW network is for sale, so any and all shows are in jeopardy. The current list of keeps/cancelled (only comic book shows):
Keep: Flash, Superman and Lois, Stargirl, Riverdale
Cancelled: Naomi, Batwoman, Legends of Tomorrow.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Tom Swift in the CW version seems to be a gay, black Tony Stark. Rich, brilliant, self-absorbed. He even has an AI like Jarvis, though his is called Barclay (voiced, interestingly, by LeVar Burton).
The opening episode had some interesting plot beginnings. The show is not bad, but also not compelling.
George
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WordWolf
I get the feeling that when I catch up, I'll finish Legends of Tomorrow and catch all of Naomi, and Flash, Superman and Lois, and Stargirl, not in a specific order. These will probably be ENORMOUS binges.
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WordWolf
I did catch Moon Knight. It was different, but interesting. It wasn't the version of MK I preferred, but they never seem to know what to do with him, so that's no surprise. (Is he like Batman, or the Shadow, or does he have super-strength, or does he have multiple personalities.....) I approve of the newer versions of Anton Mogart/the Midnight Man and of the Scarlet Scarab (sorry, Abdul Farouk was a stereotype.) If season 2 brings us Bushman, I'm going to be surprised because he's a black villain and, well..... There's plenty of other foes to bring in, just from the comic book. Morpheus and the Black Spectre alone can carry a season. Stained-Glass Scarlett could be brought in for a complete left turn, and so on. BTW, I miss Jake's fake moustache, and the diner he used to go to for information. But, I expect I'm in the minority there, both times. I think whoever did this new version did some work and went through all of the character's history, and I appreciate the little details they included.
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GeorgeStGeorge
This week's Flash has a Ray Palmer cameo (for no apparent reason, except perhaps for some comic relief). We also learn more about John Diggle's box with the green, shiny thing. Apparently NOT a GL ring.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Before I comment on the season finales of Superman and Lois and Flash, a comment about Tom Swift, Batwoman, and Naomi.
The Cosby Show did very well for many years. Although the cast was almost all black, the themes were relatable to most of America. It didn't target a black audience.
This latest round of CW shows basically seem designed to appeal to black gays. (Maybe not Naomi, so much.) So, if your audience is ~ 1% of the population, you're just not going to get good ratings. Batwoman made it a couple of seasons, Naomi only one. I don't see Tom Swift being a hit, either. It's almost too bad, because the main story line isn't bad, but when Swift or someone else in the cast isn't railing about social justice, Swift is hitting on every other gay on the show. (And there seems to be a disproportionate number of them.)
George
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WordWolf
That's the thing. Under capitalism, people vote with their dollar. In the case of television, they vote with their viewership. If your show lacks broad appeal, it will lack broad viewership. If it targets a niche market, you will have niche ratings.
Both DC and Marvel seem to be putting a lot of that niche entertainment out now. In the case of Marvel, one of the executives has set, as a goal, 50% of ALL protagonists in Marvel to be lgbt+ . I don't know how far they will get, but their attempts keep resulting in shows with dismal ratings. Eventually, both companies will have to decide whether it suits them to do this sort of thing regularly, or not. My complaints also include changing characters to make them fit quotas. I don't recognize their "Eternals" because they changed a lot of things. It improved nothing that one of the actresses (Angelina Jolie) berated the fans for not embracing their changed characters wholeheartedly. It just showed another example of someone who just doesn't "get it." I mean, there's a way to address fan concerns and still promote something. But just dismissing complaints about the depictions categorically is not going to work.
The Cosby Show was largely about a family in the US. They could have been any ethnicity, and the early seasons could have had them OF any ethnicity. So, the settings and jokes had a broad appeal.
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GeorgeStGeorge
DC has "retrofit" a number of characters into gay or bi. Jon Kent and Tim Drake come immediately to mind. And almost every new character has to be black (Naomi, the new Batman), gay, or both (the new Aquaman, Nubia). I have a friend who believes that DC (and perhaps Marvel) don't actually care if they sell another comic as long as they can continue to merchandise the properties. Sad, but believable.
George
PS: Having never read the Eternals, I had no preconceptions about the characters. Maybe that's why I liked the movie.
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WordWolf
I don't think your friend is correct, but I think there's some truth to that. The merchandising and multimedia money is a lot more than the money for the comics, so the comics can be seen as the source for what generates revenue in other media, and if the comics are break-even, that's fine. But, they DO have to actually SELL the comics to retain all rights and renew all copyrights and trademarks. It's the same reason Marvel kept bringing in one Captain Marvel or another- to hang onto the rights to the comic book name just so DC couldn't get it.
Seeing anyone just fiddle with Kirby's characters bugs me- and that includes the Eternals. Then again, I don't think Marvel knows what to do with them, anyway. The Inhumans were used as a substitute for mutants since Sony has the X-Men rights, but the Eternals are markedly different.
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GeorgeStGeorge
On to the Flash and Superman and Lois season finales.
Both of the shows are more "team" shows than focusing on the individual heroes. Team Flash has gone through about as many cast changes as the Legends. Well, no. we've only traded Ralph and Cisco for Allegra, Cecile, and Chunk, but it just seems to have a different tenor. I thought the addition of the Still, Strength, and Sage forces was silly, though they've been in the comic for a while. But now there are good AND EVIL forces? At least it all got sorted out at the end. Now we just have to find out what happened to Frost... It's always good to see JW Shipp as Jay Garrick. It's fun that his wife Joan is played by the same actress who plays Nora West/Speed Force but is almost unrecognizable.
Team Superman includes his family, John and Natasha Irons, and his mostly-evil-but-sometimes-good brother Tal. A few others get read in to the secret identity thing. I wondered why we didn't see Kara or any other heroes (other than the Ironses) help out. Something Sam Lane says in the finale indicates that although THIS Superman looks exactly like the Superman in the Crisis crossover, he's NOT the same one, as "whole leagues of heroes are on other earths." The main story line dragged out too long, IMHO, but there were nice touches. Bizarro World is cubic. When there is a big celebration for Superman and cohorts saving the world, some kids had Superman costumes on; others were dressed up like Steel or Natasha.
I wonder if David Ramsey has some sort of ten-year contract with CW. He seems to have a cameo appearance in almost every show. He showed up in Flash a couple of weeks ago just to show that the green glowy wasn't a power ring. Now he appears in S&L to ask Irons if he knows who Bruno Mannheim is. Apparently Intergang will be the first threat of next season. It just occurred to me that this is a different John Diggle, since it's a different universe. I guess that's why the different haircut...
Anyway, looking forward to Stargirl.
George
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WordWolf
Off-topic- another example of how much Jack Kirby made up for both DC and Marvel.... Bruno Mannheim and Intergang were both Kirby creations.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Well, "Tom Swift"'s series finale ended with a cliffhanger, so it appears that a projected second season will not happen. The show had its moments, but I'm sure it didn't appeal to a wide audience.
Stargirl starts back up at the end of the month.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Stargirl: Aug. 30.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Kevin Conroy, the voice of Batman in almost every cartoon for the last 30 years, passed away a few days ago after a short battle with cancer. You might also remember his appearance in the CW cross-over "Crisis on Infinite Earths," where he played a dark version of Batman akin to Frank Miller's Dark Knight. His co-workers, including Mark Hamill, who was Joker to Conroy's Batman, have only praise for his work and more so for his character.
George
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WordWolf
Sorry to see him go so young. That it was cancer explains that.
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GeorgeStGeorge
My understanding is that Stargirl is not being renewed after this season. So Flash and Superman and Lois are the last DC shows standing. (Arrow, Supergirl, Legends, Batwoman, Black Lightning, and Naomi all gone.) Titans is still around, I guess, and Harley Quinn, but both are on HBO with later showings on TNT.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Stargirl ended its run on a high note. Most of the action of the last episode ends about 40 minutes in, with the rest of the time tying up loose ends. The Shade gives the recap (including a reference to Justice League of America 100 -- I wonder if I'm the only one who got it), with a surprise cameo at the end, indicating possible future adventures. If you haven't watched the show at all, you still might like this episode. If you've been watching it, I'm sure you'll like it.
George
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WordWolf
Looks like I'll want to binge-watch the series.
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GeorgeStGeorge
It really was entertaining. Lots of JSA memories.
George
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