Super Hero TV

[Raf]

But why try to kill Barry as a child?

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I have now seen the "Who Is Harrison Wells" episode. The trailer for the NEXT episode makes it appear more entertaining.

George

[WordWolf]

But why try to kill Barry as a child?

I think that's what he wants NOW.

(Which COMPLETELY changed once he was stranded in the past.)

I don't have why he ever came back into his past yet.

But let me work on that. I think I can do it with a little more

information.

[Raf]

I thought he tried to kill Barry as a child, and the mother died instead because older Barry intervened.

But he was there to kill little Barry.

That will be why Barry can't save his mom, even if he wants to. Saving his mom would result in his own death.

Then again, it's a comic book show and I'm enjoying it.

[WordWolf]

I thought he tried to kill Barry as a child, and the mother died instead because older Barry intervened.

But he was there to kill little Barry.

That will be why Barry can't save his mom, even if he wants to. Saving his mom would result in his own death.

Then again, it's a comic book show and I'm enjoying it.

As I reconstruct based on what I've seen and what we know,

Eobard showed up in Barry's past, specifically to kill little Barry.

Barry of sometime in the future showed up WITH him,

ACTIVELY FIGHTING HIM ALL THE WAY.

(Barry was there when he left some other point, and traveled with him

together to one time. Perhaps they used one device at the same time

like The Treadmill of the comic.)

Thawne arrived, and tried to shake off Barry and kill little Barry.

I THINK killing Barry's Mom was an accident in the course of all that,

but I'd need to go over things a lot more finely to say it with confidence.

Adult Barry spirited little Barry one way, Eobard went another.

Eobard was now out of Speed (connection to The Speed Force) and was now

unable to return to his own time-which shocked him. Either Barry lost

Eobard because Eobard was now off his radar, or- more likely-

Barry vanished off somewhen else. We know Barry vanished in Eobard's

present (possibly because he chased Eobard) but not why and when he

went. I think if I was trying harder I could connect it better, but it's

just a TV show and I don't feel like diagramming every nuance out like

I might have once upon a time. I'll have it long before the rest of

the public because Mrs Wolf and I tend to piece the details together as soon

as there's something to connect, and the show later brings the rest of the

audience up to speed. (We identified Lisa Snart about 5-7 seconds

after she first appeared to chat, for example.)

[WordWolf]

Then again,

this being a TV show,

it's entirely possible Barry ended up in the past,

and just happened to run into Eobard independently

showing up at the same point in time,

and began fighting,

with us joining.

I'd need to review the footage to know for certain

if they arrived IN TIME together or only

IN SPACE together.

[WordWolf]

Ok, we caught up.

I'm glad they found exactly what I thought they might find.

In other news, I've been complaining about "Arrow" that the

current Canary was not using the sonic weapons. I was pleased

that she wanted them fixed and upgraded. I was delighted that

they've now been made into a full "canary's cry".

I was quite surprised that "Everyman" gave EOBARD the slip.

I can see Iris or Kaitlin slipping up, but the fact that he

escaped suggested to me Eobard WANTED him to escape so Eobard

could get cell samples and so on. When they caught him the

first time, I TOTALLY expected him to get his "shot" and for

them to truss him up like a Thanksgiving turkey and completely

wrap him up. However, my expectations didn't make any of that so.

With all their adolescent petulance, I've been getting a bit tired

of Detective Quentin Lance and reporter Iris West. Mrs Wolf thinks

those are added to the shows to keep the teens turning in. I think

she's correct.

[Raf]

I don't think the show has recaptured the high of the "Out of Time" episode, but it's still doing a pretty good job of keeping me engaged.

I'm also (finally) catching up on Arrow Season 2, and I'm impressed with the groundwork they laid for Flash on that show. The whole "particle accelerator" plot device was in the background for the entire season leading up to the explosion and Barry Allen's lightning bolt.

I wonder if anyone will ever make an "Island Cut" of Arrow featuring all the island sequences in chronological order. It would make a pretty good watch party. Or 4.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

It was fun seeing Flash in "Arrow" again. I'll be interested in seeing WW's take on "Flash" and "Arrow" this week.

George

[WordWolf]

It was fun seeing Flash in "Arrow" again. I'll be interested in seeing WW's take on "Flash" and "Arrow" this week.

George

Still need to see "Arrow", but that should be tonight...

[WordWolf]

I'm all caught up.

Actually, we partly predicted the conclusion to "Arrow" about 1 month ago.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I just enjoyed the "Thanks for outing my identity in front of a super-villain, Felicity." (To Malcolm) "No offense." :)/>

So, is Lisa Snart really interested in Cisco, or just messing with his head?

George

Edited May 17, 2015 by GeorgeStGeorge

[Raf]

I think Lisa Snart would do him, but it wouldn't mean anything.

Anyone have her number?

[WordWolf]

I just enjoyed the "Thanks for outing my identity in front of a super-villain, Felicity." (To Malcolm) "No offense." :)/>/>

So, is Lisa Snart really interested in Cisco, or just messing with his head?

George

I think she was MOSTLY messing with him.

Then again, he made that weapon with relatively little time and sweat.

THAT certainly gets her attention.

"You know, a woman like that could ruin a man- if he was lucky."

Since I'd mentioned Cold's sister weeks before,

when Lisa sat down next to Cisco, Mrs Wolf signaled me and asked

if that was her. I thought a minute, matched the hair up, and off

we went. When she gave her name as Lisa, that cinched it.

If Barry had trusted Cisco more and Len Snart less,

a lot of trouble would have been avoided.

(Also, Barry should have waited to complete his half of the deal.

(I have all the files, and I have the only copy of the records.

If you break the deal, it all goes back.

Or, just promise to do it all after.)

[Raf]

Just saw the finale.

Outstanding

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Just saw the finale.

Outstanding

It was well done. Of course, we'll have to wait for next season to see how they resolve the cliffhanger. Standard.

George

[WordWolf]

The finale aired?

Frack!

Frankly, I'm going to be relieved when almost everyone goes on hiatus.

It's a hassle trying to juggle this many shows!

(Agents of SHIELD/Agent Carter, Flash. Arrow, Gotham, Big Bang Theory.)

We scratched Elementary off the dance card some time back.

Maybe we'll see it on hiatus or something.

IIRC, Flash should be it, except for Agent Carter as a replacement.

(Frankly, a great idea, IMHO.)

[GeorgeStGeorge]

CW is going to do something fairly revolutionary, these days, but commonplace when we were kids: re-run all the Flash episodes over the summer.

George

[Raf]

I suspect the cliffhanger will be resolved fairly easily. I'm reminded of Star Trek TNG's "Best of Both Worlds," where part I ended with an epic start of a battle and in part II it was one shot that didn't work and oh well, back to talking.

But wow. What a great episode. I did NOT see "the moment" coming at all.

And the h..... showing up. I was like, THEY ARE NOT!

And did you catch the cameos near the end? They were NOT random.

And the name dropping.

And the... WORDWOLF, HURRY UP AND WATCH THE EPISODE AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!

[GeorgeStGeorge]

I suspect the cliffhanger will be resolved fairly easily. I'm reminded of Star Trek TNG's "Best of Both Worlds," where part I ended with an epic start of a battle and in part II it was one shot that didn't work and oh well, back to talking.

But wow. What a great episode. I did NOT see "the moment" coming at all.

And the h..... showing up. I was like, THEY ARE NOT!

And did you catch the cameos near the end? They were NOT random.

And the name dropping.

And the... WORDWOLF, HURRY UP AND WATCH THE EPISODE AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!

If "the moment" is what I think it is, I actually had a pretty good idea that that would happen. Of course, one would assume that more would have happened to the timeline than we actually see..

WW, watch the episode! :lol:

George

[Raf]

I'm not saying it's unpredictable. I SHOULD have seen it coming. But I was so wrapped up in everything else that was happening, I just didn't expect it.

The only thing that was a problem for me (mild but predictable spoiler) is the fact that everyone was so gung-ho about Barry changing the past that they did not appear to really think about the implications. Cisco seems to be the only one who says, wait, this is an actively bad idea. This is all our lives we're talking about.

Would you help a guy change the past not knowing how it will affect your present or future?

[WordWolf]

I'm not saying it's unpredictable. I SHOULD have seen it coming. But I was so wrapped up in everything else that was happening, I just didn't expect it.

The only thing that was a problem for me (mild but predictable spoiler) is the fact that everyone was so gung-ho about Barry changing the past that they did not appear to really think about the implications. Cisco seems to be the only one who says, wait, this is an actively bad idea. This is all our lives we're talking about.

Would you help a guy change the past not knowing how it will affect your present or future?

No, I would not.

We were discussing possible dangers at length.

And this wasn't the first time.

I always remember a short story that George Scithers described.

A lab experimented with sending things in time.

They sent a small metal cube 5 minutes into the future.

It vanished, and reappeared 5 minutes later.

They then began discussing the cube and sending it 5 minutes into the past.

Immediately, a second cube appeared, alongside the first.

Just before the time to send it back, they decided to see what would

happen if they never sent it back. When the 5 minute mark arrived,

existence itself vanished-

except for the 2 small metal cubes.

So, I'm aware there can be repercussions.

If "the moment" is what I think it is, I actually had a pretty good idea that that would happen. Of course, one would assume that more would have happened to the timeline than we actually see..

WW, watch the episode! :lol:/>

George

I thought it would have happened a few episodes ago.

Mrs Wolf saw it happening this episode as the episode unfolded.

We also ran a few scenarios about what would happen as the result of a change.

My favorite "awful" scenario- Barry saves Nora, but Eobard kills his Dad,

and Nora goes to jail for it!

[WordWolf]

I suspect the cliffhanger will be resolved fairly easily. I'm reminded of Star Trek TNG's "Best of Both Worlds," where part I ended with an epic start of a battle and in part II it was one shot that didn't work and oh well, back to talking.

But wow. What a great episode. I did NOT see "the moment" coming at all.

And the h..... showing up. I was like, THEY ARE NOT!

And did you catch the cameos near the end? They were NOT random.

And the name dropping.

And the... WORDWOLF, HURRY UP AND WATCH THE EPISODE AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!

I had the freedom to identify the Time Sphere as Rip Hunter's design when

the sketches were displayed.

I'm waiting to see if the "h" showing up is from the future, or from an

alternate Earth. After all, the first time we ever heard of 2 Earths

was Flash vol 1 #123, "Flash of 2 Worlds."

(Big Bang fans may remember the cricket bet between Howard and Sheldon-

Howard put up his copy of Flash #123 as his stake.)

Mrs Wolf wondered if the thing came from the future Eobard wanted to

return to.

I slapped my forehead when I realized I'd missed that ONLY Cisco had

flashbacks to the overwritten day. I know they snuck in the number 52

just to mess with the fans- 1:52 was the entire countdown.

Was 1 cameo the woman from the future that Barry hadn't met yet?

Anyone else like the design of the Flash Museum? Mrs Wolf was first

in identifying the statue out front, which meant it was obviously

the Museum.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

The Cisco thing is a clever way to bring him in as Vibe. In his original manifestation, he was a break-dancer (!) who could induce vibrations in objects. More recently, the break-dancing was done away with. He still has the shake-things-up power, but also interdimensional capabilities. (Different dimensions vibrating at different frequencies has LONG been a dogma of the DC universe, going back at least as far as "Flash of Two Worlds.")

The incident in the Allen home will require some explanation. It would appear that the (older) Barry who came back to save his mom and himself knew that younger "him" would show up to try to save his mom, and waved him off. Obviously, a later Barry would know what his younger version had done, but how would he know to wave him off, unless some OTHER timeline resulted in disaster?

My problem is, if Eobard was never born, how did Flash get his powers (or, for that matter, any of the other metahumans -- including Cisco)? Eddie gets sucked into the singularity; maybe he will be the new Reverse Flash?

As for the cameos, some of them may be tied into the "Legends of Tomorrow" series to premiere in Jan 2016. My understanding is that Rip Hunter will assemble a collection of heroes and villains to save the universe from some future disaster involving Vandal Savage. Heroes include the Atom and Hawkgirl (maybe the female cameo?) and villains include Captain cold and Heat Wave.

George

[Raf]

It was indeed Hawkgirl.

And I'm going to be really upset if they don't figure out some way to work Green Lantern into this universe, considering their flagrant tease from the "Rogue Air" episode.

Now that we can discuss it:

I tend to be pretty easy going about time travel paradoxes in movies and TV. I take the Austin Powers approach (ala the beginning of the second movie, where the scientist tells Austin not to worry too much about it, then looks at the audience and says "that goes for you too," or somesuch.

Anyway, I just want them to be consistent. Eddie killing himself erased Eobard from existence. Ok. But if it had really erased him from ever existing, there would be no out-of-control wormhole. But there was. Nobody would be aware of why they were all standing around there. But they did. Flash wouldn't be Flash (yet). But he still was.

So I think Eddie killing himself set in motion a chain of events that were dependent on Eobard showing up in the first place (otherwise, Eddie has no motive to kill himself, and we're stuck in a loop).

In other words, Eddie's suicide/sacrifice created a new alternate universe, one in which all these things took place, but the ramifications only begin at the point the timeline was changed. After that, don't worry about it. My big concern, which goes unaddressed, is that Eddie's suicide eliminates potentially many more people from existence (and now we'll never know who they are or what they would have done).

Jay Garrick's helmet made me say "Holy Spirit!" or something close to that.

I recognized Hawkgirl from the Legends of Tomorrow trailer.

I'm not enough of a comic book geek to have understood the Rip Hunter reference, and it would have gone right past me if not for the Legends of Tomorrow trailer.

As for Legends of Tomorrow, I was REALLY hoping Vandal Savage would be the villain in the Justice League movie.

An outstanding episode, overall. I was damned impressed.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Raf