After I took PFAL in July of 1980, I went to GenCon where I introduced myself to Dave Arneson, the co-author of Dungeons & Dragons. He had previously mentioned in an article in Different Worlds that he was involved with TWI, so when I introduced myself I told Dave that I had just taken PFAL. In 1982 I moved up to St. Paul, where I worked for Dave's company, and we remained life-long friends. During the early-1980s Dave was tithing in the five-figure range each year to TWI from the money he was making off of D&D. I know Dave was invited to the private parties whenever Wierwille came to town, and they all talked well to Dave's face. But when I took the advanced class, there was a segment on the evils of D&D.
Wierwille and the Trustees may not have been respecters of persons (equal opportunity predators), but they were certainly respecters of dollars and the people those dollars came from.
Wow. I do remember (from where, I don't know) condemnation of the devilish game of D&D. Maybe Dave A had parted company with TWI by then so they felt free to condemn the game (actually the person, who no longer supported them financially).
Invited to special parties. What a long way from our text at church this week, from Luke 14:
12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
(BTW I am not saying Dave A gave money so that he could gain kudos or a "higher place.")
Wow. I do remember (from where, I don't know) condemnation of the devilish game of D&D. Maybe Dave A had parted company with TWI by then so they felt free to condemn the game (actually the person, who no longer supported them financially).
Invited to special parties. What a long way from our text at church this week, from Luke 14:
(BTW I am not saying Dave A gave money so that he could gain kudos or a "higher place.")
TWI big wigs bad-mouthed D&D at the very same time they accepted tens of thousands of dollars a year that were generated by the sales of D&D. They just didn't do it to Dave's face. Dave was one of the most generous, least hypocritical people I have ever known. Money spoiled the lives of everyone else who was involved with D&D, but not Dave.
After I took PFAL in July of 1980, I went to GenCon where I introduced myself to Dave Arneson, the co-author of Dungeons & Dragons. He had previously mentioned in an article in Different Worlds that he was involved with TWI, so when I introduced myself I told Dave that I had just taken PFAL. In 1982 I moved up to St. Paul, where I worked for Dave's company, and we remained life-long friends. During the early-1980s Dave was tithing in the five-figure range each year to TWI from the money he was making off of D&D. I know Dave was invited to the private parties whenever Wierwille came to town, and they all talked well to Dave's face. But when I took the advanced class, there was a segment on the evils of D&D.
Wierwille and the Trustees may not have been respecters of persons (equal opportunity predators), but they were certainly respecters of dollars and the people those dollars came from.
Love,
Steve
For those who want to know about Dave Arneson, the quotes and links are on his
Memorial thread from when he passed away.
Myself, I was familiar with AD&D but not with Arneson until someone brought his name
Wow. I do remember (from where, I don't know) condemnation of the devilish game of D&D. Maybe Dave A had parted company with TWI by then so they felt free to condemn the game (actually the person, who no longer supported them financially).
Invited to special parties. (snip)
(BTW I am not saying Dave A gave money so that he could gain kudos or a "higher place.")
There was a disconnect, mostly because vpw didn't care.
(Other than in how to manipulate people, vpw wasn't really smart,
and didn't work hard to understand things not related to that.)
Concerning Dave A, vpw would certainly treat him well because he
was bringing gold into the coffers, and didn't otherwise care
about what concerned Dave, like how he got the money he gave twi.
Concerning D&D, that had nothing to do with Dave and had everything
to do with tinfoil-hat conspiracies. vpw kept putting forth he learned
all sorts of esoteric things because he had a special connection with God.
However, he just had a lot of information sources of tinfoil-hat
conspiracies and other nonsense.
Naturally, when the D&D panic came around, vpw ran with it. The panic was
that supposedly it promoted demons and suicide and all sorts of harmful
things for teenagers. The only thing about demons it had was that the game
included demons and devils (2 different, but similar, things in AD&D)
as villains so that the heroes (the player characters) could destroy them
or otherwise beat them up or foil their plans. (If you want to play a hero,
there needs to be a villain. And a demon or a devil is a villain you don't
have to worry is "misunderstood"-you can just kaboom them and that's it.)
But the real panic started up as the result of 2 teenagers. One was under
immense pressure at home and ran off. He tried to commit suicide by taking
pills, but he woke up later and ran to a friend's house to hide out because
the town was looking for him. A detective found traces of him having stayed
in the steam tunnels under his school (where he had tried to commit suicide.)
When asked about what he found, the detective, instead of just saying that,
said that he probably went down there to play Dungeons and Dragons.
(By himself? Impossible. The minimum required# of people is 2, and 5-7 is
preferred. But 1 person can't play any RPG of any type without a 2nd person.)
The newspapers ran with it.
When the kid turned up again, the parents (who were the reason the kid ran off)
begged the detective to keep hush about the real reason for the disappearance,
so he stayed with the "played D&D by himself" story.
That was later turned into a movie, "Mazes and Monsters", with Tom Hanks playing
a kid who loses his identity and thinks he's his character, wandering around
a modern world. (I read the novelization-it was awful. And there were idiots who
thought the thing was real. I found it ironic that people who were unable to
separate fiction from reality accused RPG players of being unable to separate
fiction from reality, based entirely on their own inabilities to separate fiction
from reality.)
Then there was another kid who succeeded in committing suicide. His mother insisted
it was due to D&D, which he played at SOME point but he was not a regular player.
So, she crusaded against D&D, quoting the most ridiculous, made-up stuff and
scaring other parents into believing RPGs were a real threat to their teens.
Meanwhile, actual Psychologists have said that D&D/AD&D was actually HEALTHY for
people. It was a social activity, it required interaction to play. So, we had people
who normally aren't very social-who all got together on a regular basis and socialized
for a few hours while playing a game and drinking Mountain Dew. The socialization was
good for them. So, statistically, playing RPG's actually DECREASED the risk of teen
suicides. A teen who was at risk of suicide tends to isolate himself- and social
activities tend to act to suppress suicidal urges. (No one feels suicidal when they're
having a good time and their friends are glad to see them.) So, I would have said,
if you've got kids at risk of suicide, start getting them into some RPG groups that are
run by competent GameMasters. (The person running a game can make a big difference-
an immature one can ruin the experience for everyone by making it about HIM rather than
about the PLAYERS. His role is to provide the setting, the supporting characters,
the conflicts, and the goals to shoot for.)
Anyway,
we had scared parents, and people making claims about a game promoting witchcraft and
promoting Satanism and suicide. Conmen like vpw can always use an existing panic
quite successfully, and will invent one if they can't find an existing one. So, this
panic was something he could use.
If vpw was everything his hype was, he'd have seen right through this panic, and
presented things of actual substance rather than promote the spirit of fear.
He used this instead because he had no substance, just this.
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MRAP
Thanks Dog Lover.
OMG, what if I had taken all that $ and put it into an IRA (gaf: there were no IRA's back then).
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waysider
You could have put it in a sock and stuck it under the mattress and still had a better return.
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WordWolf
Anyone who wants to brush up on ancient twi acronyms and names,
or GSC usages, can see the whole enchilada in the Greasespot 101
forum, in the "Way-speak and Greasespot-speak" thread.
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JustThinking
Really?! What do they call it now?
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Broken Arrow
AWLL=A Whole Lot Less
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waysider
What do they call it now?
MDTC (Money Down The Crapper)
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Rocky
How nice, that's what I call it too. ;)
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Steve Lortz
After I took PFAL in July of 1980, I went to GenCon where I introduced myself to Dave Arneson, the co-author of Dungeons & Dragons. He had previously mentioned in an article in Different Worlds that he was involved with TWI, so when I introduced myself I told Dave that I had just taken PFAL. In 1982 I moved up to St. Paul, where I worked for Dave's company, and we remained life-long friends. During the early-1980s Dave was tithing in the five-figure range each year to TWI from the money he was making off of D&D. I know Dave was invited to the private parties whenever Wierwille came to town, and they all talked well to Dave's face. But when I took the advanced class, there was a segment on the evils of D&D.
Wierwille and the Trustees may not have been respecters of persons (equal opportunity predators), but they were certainly respecters of dollars and the people those dollars came from.
Love,
Steve
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Twinky
Wow. I do remember (from where, I don't know) condemnation of the devilish game of D&D. Maybe Dave A had parted company with TWI by then so they felt free to condemn the game (actually the person, who no longer supported them financially).
Invited to special parties. What a long way from our text at church this week, from Luke 14:
(BTW I am not saying Dave A gave money so that he could gain kudos or a "higher place.")
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Steve Lortz
TWI big wigs bad-mouthed D&D at the very same time they accepted tens of thousands of dollars a year that were generated by the sales of D&D. They just didn't do it to Dave's face. Dave was one of the most generous, least hypocritical people I have ever known. Money spoiled the lives of everyone else who was involved with D&D, but not Dave.
Love,
Steve
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WordWolf
For those who want to know about Dave Arneson, the quotes and links are on his
Memorial thread from when he passed away.
Myself, I was familiar with AD&D but not with Arneson until someone brought his name
up here and got me looking.
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WordWolf
There was a disconnect, mostly because vpw didn't care.
(Other than in how to manipulate people, vpw wasn't really smart,
and didn't work hard to understand things not related to that.)
Concerning Dave A, vpw would certainly treat him well because he
was bringing gold into the coffers, and didn't otherwise care
about what concerned Dave, like how he got the money he gave twi.
Concerning D&D, that had nothing to do with Dave and had everything
to do with tinfoil-hat conspiracies. vpw kept putting forth he learned
all sorts of esoteric things because he had a special connection with God.
However, he just had a lot of information sources of tinfoil-hat
conspiracies and other nonsense.
Naturally, when the D&D panic came around, vpw ran with it. The panic was
that supposedly it promoted demons and suicide and all sorts of harmful
things for teenagers. The only thing about demons it had was that the game
included demons and devils (2 different, but similar, things in AD&D)
as villains so that the heroes (the player characters) could destroy them
or otherwise beat them up or foil their plans. (If you want to play a hero,
there needs to be a villain. And a demon or a devil is a villain you don't
have to worry is "misunderstood"-you can just kaboom them and that's it.)
But the real panic started up as the result of 2 teenagers. One was under
immense pressure at home and ran off. He tried to commit suicide by taking
pills, but he woke up later and ran to a friend's house to hide out because
the town was looking for him. A detective found traces of him having stayed
in the steam tunnels under his school (where he had tried to commit suicide.)
When asked about what he found, the detective, instead of just saying that,
said that he probably went down there to play Dungeons and Dragons.
(By himself? Impossible. The minimum required# of people is 2, and 5-7 is
preferred. But 1 person can't play any RPG of any type without a 2nd person.)
The newspapers ran with it.
When the kid turned up again, the parents (who were the reason the kid ran off)
begged the detective to keep hush about the real reason for the disappearance,
so he stayed with the "played D&D by himself" story.
That was later turned into a movie, "Mazes and Monsters", with Tom Hanks playing
a kid who loses his identity and thinks he's his character, wandering around
a modern world. (I read the novelization-it was awful. And there were idiots who
thought the thing was real. I found it ironic that people who were unable to
separate fiction from reality accused RPG players of being unable to separate
fiction from reality, based entirely on their own inabilities to separate fiction
from reality.)
Then there was another kid who succeeded in committing suicide. His mother insisted
it was due to D&D, which he played at SOME point but he was not a regular player.
So, she crusaded against D&D, quoting the most ridiculous, made-up stuff and
scaring other parents into believing RPGs were a real threat to their teens.
Meanwhile, actual Psychologists have said that D&D/AD&D was actually HEALTHY for
people. It was a social activity, it required interaction to play. So, we had people
who normally aren't very social-who all got together on a regular basis and socialized
for a few hours while playing a game and drinking Mountain Dew. The socialization was
good for them. So, statistically, playing RPG's actually DECREASED the risk of teen
suicides. A teen who was at risk of suicide tends to isolate himself- and social
activities tend to act to suppress suicidal urges. (No one feels suicidal when they're
having a good time and their friends are glad to see them.) So, I would have said,
if you've got kids at risk of suicide, start getting them into some RPG groups that are
run by competent GameMasters. (The person running a game can make a big difference-
an immature one can ruin the experience for everyone by making it about HIM rather than
about the PLAYERS. His role is to provide the setting, the supporting characters,
the conflicts, and the goals to shoot for.)
Anyway,
we had scared parents, and people making claims about a game promoting witchcraft and
promoting Satanism and suicide. Conmen like vpw can always use an existing panic
quite successfully, and will invent one if they can't find an existing one. So, this
panic was something he could use.
If vpw was everything his hype was, he'd have seen right through this panic, and
presented things of actual substance rather than promote the spirit of fear.
He used this instead because he had no substance, just this.
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JustThinking
So what does TWI call ABS now? Anybody know?
JT
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Grace Valerie Claire
Money??
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