I don't see how one injustice invalidates the quest for justice in an unrelated case. Not to pass any judgment on Officer Wilson, pro or con, but there's something flat out despicable about using the heads of innocent children to tell frustrated protesters concerned about an unrelated issue to sit down and shut up.
The validity of the cause inspiring the Ferguson protest is unrelated to ISIL beheading innocent children. I find it disgusting that anyone would hold their heads up to shame Ferguson protesters. Hypocrisy? How about a little decency?
I don't see how one injustice invalidates the quest for justice in an unrelated case. Not to pass any judgment on Officer Wilson, pro or con, but there's something flat out despicable about using the heads of innocent children to tell frustrated protesters concerned about an unrelated issue to sit down and shut up.
Vile.
Sorry.
Huh?
I didn't SAY that protesters in Ferguson needed to "sit down and shut up"....
The validity of the cause inspiring the Ferguson protest is unrelated to ISIL beheading innocent children. I find it disgusting that anyone would hold their heads up to shame Ferguson protesters. Hypocrisy? How about a little decency?
That is why I used the word juxtaposed.....
ONE event gets all kinds of media coverage with a narrative of "Hands Up. Don't Shoot"
at NFL game, CNN, partisan congressmen, etc. and protesters out everywhere.....
Yet, with beheadings of innocent Christian children.....
and there's nearly a blackout of tv attention, hence....
....the civilized world shrugs.
Raf, you surprise me on this.
Usually you take the time to move into a discussion rather than
Spare me the innocent indignation. You could have compared the lack of ISIL coverage to a thousand issues getting more coverage in the media today. Not only did you choose Ferguson as your point of comparison, you portrayed the Ferguson issue in such a way as to invalidate the claims made by the protesters. That has NOTHING to with the civilized world shrugging at ISIL. If you don't like the Ferguson protests, that's cool. No one is forcing you to agree with them. But what you actually said was that Ferguson is an invalid story that does not deserve the coverage it's getting, and using the heads of innocent children to illustrate that point.
So vile and disgusting are kind words, compared to what's called for under the circumstances.
Spare me the innocent indignation. You could have compared the lack of ISIL coverage to a thousand issues getting more coverage in the media today. Not only did you choose Ferguson as your point of comparison, you portrayed the Ferguson issue in such a way as to invalidate the claims made by the protesters. That has NOTHING to with the civilized world shrugging at ISIL. If you don't like the Ferguson protests, that's cool. No one is forcing you to agree with them. But what you actually said was that Ferguson is an invalid story that does not deserve the coverage it's getting, and using the heads of innocent children to illustrate that point.
So vile and disgusting are kind words, compared to what's called for under the circumstances.
Sure, I could have compared the Isis beheadings to other media coverage where "the civilized world shrugs"......
but I didn't. Innocent people are being slaughtered, brutally beheaded.....American lives, young Christian
teenager lives and the news stories are a blip on the radar. My son's classmate, who was an aid worker in
Syria AND converted to Islam, was beheaded. Why? Because he was an American? Because Isis wants to mock
and taunt their enemy? How many more beheadings will follow before America "protests" these injustices?
And yeah, hypocrisy how art thou? Pick a "news story of violence".....any story of "violence"......and step
back and look at it. Just seems to me the violent slaughter of innocent lives would register on the scale
a bit higher than this faux "police brutality" in the Ferguson story.
With regards to the "innocent indignation" of comparing in two newsworthy stories......please.
Anyone who does a fair amount of reading daily news events sees comparisons all the time.
ISIL has killed hundreds of Muslims. It has killed men suspected of bring gay. Did it take the killing of children to wake your anger? No, they've been killing children for quite some time. Muslim children. I guess it takes the killing of Christian children to wake your rage.
And with your rage awakened, what do you do? Wake others! Look at what is happening! This is awful! Stop paying attention to insignificant things like the Kardashians attempting to break the internet with their naked asses, insignificant things like a fake war on Christmas, insignificant things like the profound concern of black Americans that they are treated like animals or like superhuman monsters by the very police force sworn to protect us all...
One of those things is not like the others. And to hold up the heads of innocent children to whine that the Ferguson protests are getting too much coverage IS VILE AND DISGUSTING AND BENEATH YOU and I DO NOT apologize for pointing it out.
I'm not saying you have to agree with me or refute me. Just expressing my opinion.
If I had a comment about your previous thread, I would have made it there.
You enjoy the privilege of denouncing the basis of the Ferguson protests and coverage of those issues as "hypocrisy," yet I do not enjoy the privilege of denouncing the comparison you're making, using the cut off heads of innocent children to score a cheap political point against Ferguson protests, as "vile and disgusting" without having you summon the spirits of Martindale and Geer?
Really?
I submit you've found the hypocrisy you were seeking, and it ain't coming from here.
[Note: I am commenting STRICTLY on your argument, not on you as a person].
Personally, I think if you want to talk about the merits of the Ferguson protests, that would be fascinating and you should go for it. But that's not what you did. You decided to judge the Ferguson protests on your own (which is your right) and cast the discussion in such a way that we (readers) are either in favor of the Ferguson police OR in favor of ignoring beheaded Christian children.
That's just how you framed the discussion. It's your framing of the discussion that I find vile. Not you. You're actually very cool. But what you did here... I don't know how you don't see it, honestly.
As for my clairvoyant skills, I suppose it would be too much to ask you to repost the paragraph leading up to my comment about awakened rage? You know, the one that sets up an easily refutable basis for my comment -- in the absence of a refutation, I suppose denouncing me as a wannabe clairvoyant is easier.
Certainly easier than addressing the serious points I raised in my post, which I can't help but notice you did not do. Easier to level a false accusation that I'm being like Martindale or Geer than it is to address the SUBSTANCE of my critique.
FWIW, Raf didn't need to read minds or exercise any form of clairvoyance. He simply read what you said, Skyrider and articulated reasonable inferences easily made from them.
Because they're not, you know, ACTUALLY disturbed. There's no legitimate concern that police shoot and kill black people 21 times more often than they shoot and kill white people.
But I suppose pointing that out makes me in favor of ignoring the (believable but thus far completely uncorroborated stories of) beheadings of (not just any... CHRISTIAN) children.
ISIL just executed 150 Muslim women as the world shrugs. juxtaposed with Christians in America who are in a full-scale panic over whether gay people will be allowed to get married
I find the expression, "the world shrugs" intriguing.
While one inference (Raf stated) indicates your disapproval (Skyrider) of the Ferguson protests, I see much more to that expression.
Whether you mean it or not is certainly something you can clarify. I don't pretend to be able to read minds.
I do, however, read words. "The world shrugs" suggests you believe somebody (we?) should do something about the attack in Pakistan.
What response, by whom, paid for by whose tax dollars, do you believe would be the appropriate response?
Btw, your declaration "people seemingly disturbed
by a grand jury verdict wherein forensic evidence upheld a police officer in
Ferguson, MO defending himself from assault" reveals a lot too.
First, you've apparently passed judgment that a black teenager in an economically depressed community who seemingly committed a misdemeanor offense was rightfully executed.
If that's not what you meant, by all means, please clarify for us.
However, the grand jury declining to indict is not something that in and of itself supports a claim that the forensic evidence cleared Wilson.
The grand jury process is not even close to a trial in front of a fact finding jury and judge.
The grand jury failed to indict because it was given only the information and evidence the prosecutor wanted to give it. Transcripts have already shown that there was prosecutorial misconduct in the instructions one of the prosecutors gave to the jurors about a Missouri statute that had decades ago been declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS.
I care. I just don't personally have the resources to do anything about it.
I also don't think a knee jerk military response would necessarily either solve anything or do any good.
Solutions to major world complex problems generally require studied, complex, rational consideration before rushing off half-cocked into another endless war.
Solutions to major societal problems at home also require rational consideration and investigation into root causes before potentially successful attempts to solve those problems can be formulated.
It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I believed Johnny Townsend's BS about everything in and about life being simple.
Geesh, all Skyrider did was use a CURRENT AMERICAN, maybe local ? situation as an EXAMPLE not a COMPARISON to illustrate a point of POSSIBLE double standard thinking ??!! Are we supposed to sit down and pre think EVERY FRACKN WORD IN A SENTENCE before we post ??!! I agree with Skyrider , this echoes of twi lol...I guess the real point is EVERYBODY is SELFISH. Millions die every week yet I betcha none of you nor myself lay awake at night devastated because an 80 year old in Turkmenistan (sp ?) died of a heart attack ?! Nooooo...why ? because we are really only affected by what directly affects us...merry frackn xmas
You know what echoes of TWI? Bogus comparisons that seem to illustrate a principle but actually mask another agenda. You know, like Eve's first mistake was questioning, and that masked the agenda of getting us to not question TWI.
If he wants to talk about Ferguson, bring it. But to imply (which he did) that protesting Ferguson was hypocritical because it was wrong, and mask it as a matter of priorities... it's wrong to protest against a cop who did something right while staying silent about beheaded children... that's despicable.
It's despicable because of its false dichotomy: one cause is a true injustice; the other is not. One cause should elicit our sympathy; the other should not. One cause is a true outrage; the other is not.
Anyone who wants to support the police in Ferguson, go right ahead. I'm not going to argue with you. But to take for granted that you're right, to dismiss the validity of the concerns of black America as illustrated by what happened there, and to do so using the heads of innocent children as props...?
Here's the argument of the opening post, rephrased, in a nutshell: If you don't believe Darren Wilson was innocent and that Michael Brown deserved to be shot and killed AND, acting on your failure to believe in Wilson's innocence, you find the shooting of Michael Brown an injustice worth protesting, BUT you have not done something to protest [unconfirmed reports of] the beheading of Christian children by ISIL, then you are a hypocrite.
What the bloody hell? One has nothing to do with the other. The "hypocrisy" label is misapplied and grossly unfair.
And pointing that out somehow makes me like Martindale or Geer (both of whom would have backed Officer Wilson, I guarandamntee it)?
Vile and disgusting. That Skyrider doesn't see it, surprises me.
That Allan doesn't see it... doesn't surprise me at all. I KNOW I'm on the right side of an issue when he opposes me.
Saudi Arabia beheads gay people. The civilized world shrugs. Juxtapose that with Christians seemingly concerned about the sanctity of marriage who do nothing to ban divorce but lose their minds over where men who don't share their religion put their penises. Hypocrisy much?
If you don’t agree with me about Christians being hypocrites regarding the sanctity of marriage, you must be in favor of beheading gay people.
Maybe skyrider said Christians aren't hypocrites ? I didn't...they are as hypocritical as EVERYONE else...so skyrider can post pretty much whatever skyrider wants about whatever skyrider wants and however skyrider wants to...surely ? without someone like you pointing the finger...unless you consider yourself ( less ) hypocritical than others, orrrr non- hypocritical at all...only difference is you're a moderator...hopefully not drunk on 'power'
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Raf
I don't see how one injustice invalidates the quest for justice in an unrelated case. Not to pass any judgment on Officer Wilson, pro or con, but there's something flat out despicable about using the heads of innocent children to tell frustrated protesters concerned about an unrelated issue to sit down and shut up.
Vile.
Sorry.
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Raf
The validity of the cause inspiring the Ferguson protest is unrelated to ISIL beheading innocent children. I find it disgusting that anyone would hold their heads up to shame Ferguson protesters. Hypocrisy? How about a little decency?
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skyrider
Huh?
I didn't SAY that protesters in Ferguson needed to "sit down and shut up"....
what I said was the civilized world shrugs.
Shrugs.
Yeah........hypocrisy, how art thou?
.
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skyrider
That is why I used the word juxtaposed.....
ONE event gets all kinds of media coverage with a narrative of "Hands Up. Don't Shoot"
at NFL game, CNN, partisan congressmen, etc. and protesters out everywhere.....
Yet, with beheadings of innocent Christian children.....
and there's nearly a blackout of tv attention, hence....
....the civilized world shrugs.
Raf, you surprise me on this.
Usually you take the time to move into a discussion rather than
throw words around like "vile" and "disgusting."
Take a deep breath.
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Raf
Spare me the innocent indignation. You could have compared the lack of ISIL coverage to a thousand issues getting more coverage in the media today. Not only did you choose Ferguson as your point of comparison, you portrayed the Ferguson issue in such a way as to invalidate the claims made by the protesters. That has NOTHING to with the civilized world shrugging at ISIL. If you don't like the Ferguson protests, that's cool. No one is forcing you to agree with them. But what you actually said was that Ferguson is an invalid story that does not deserve the coverage it's getting, and using the heads of innocent children to illustrate that point.
So vile and disgusting are kind words, compared to what's called for under the circumstances.
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skyrider
Sure, I could have compared the Isis beheadings to other media coverage where "the civilized world shrugs"......
but I didn't. Innocent people are being slaughtered, brutally beheaded.....American lives, young Christian
teenager lives and the news stories are a blip on the radar. My son's classmate, who was an aid worker in
Syria AND converted to Islam, was beheaded. Why? Because he was an American? Because Isis wants to mock
and taunt their enemy? How many more beheadings will follow before America "protests" these injustices?
And yeah, hypocrisy how art thou? Pick a "news story of violence".....any story of "violence"......and step
back and look at it. Just seems to me the violent slaughter of innocent lives would register on the scale
a bit higher than this faux "police brutality" in the Ferguson story.
With regards to the "innocent indignation" of comparing in two newsworthy stories......please.
Anyone who does a fair amount of reading daily news events sees comparisons all the time.
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Raf
Vile
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Raf
ISIL has killed hundreds of Muslims. It has killed men suspected of bring gay. Did it take the killing of children to wake your anger? No, they've been killing children for quite some time. Muslim children. I guess it takes the killing of Christian children to wake your rage.
And with your rage awakened, what do you do? Wake others! Look at what is happening! This is awful! Stop paying attention to insignificant things like the Kardashians attempting to break the internet with their naked asses, insignificant things like a fake war on Christmas, insignificant things like the profound concern of black Americans that they are treated like animals or like superhuman monsters by the very police force sworn to protect us all...
One of those things is not like the others. And to hold up the heads of innocent children to whine that the Ferguson protests are getting too much coverage IS VILE AND DISGUSTING AND BENEATH YOU and I DO NOT apologize for pointing it out.
I'm not saying you have to agree with me or refute me. Just expressing my opinion.
If I had a comment about your previous thread, I would have made it there.
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skyrider
Your clairvoyant skills are amazing?
I've got too much work on my plate to get into a nonsensical "discussion"
with such lunatic accusations. What with......"vile" and "disgusting" and
"despicable" in your posts.
I had the good sense to ditch twi and these sort of verbal onslaughts
from martindale and geer. No thanks. Post away.
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Raf
See if I've got this straight:
You enjoy the privilege of denouncing the basis of the Ferguson protests and coverage of those issues as "hypocrisy," yet I do not enjoy the privilege of denouncing the comparison you're making, using the cut off heads of innocent children to score a cheap political point against Ferguson protests, as "vile and disgusting" without having you summon the spirits of Martindale and Geer?
Really?
I submit you've found the hypocrisy you were seeking, and it ain't coming from here.
[Note: I am commenting STRICTLY on your argument, not on you as a person].
Personally, I think if you want to talk about the merits of the Ferguson protests, that would be fascinating and you should go for it. But that's not what you did. You decided to judge the Ferguson protests on your own (which is your right) and cast the discussion in such a way that we (readers) are either in favor of the Ferguson police OR in favor of ignoring beheaded Christian children.
That's just how you framed the discussion. It's your framing of the discussion that I find vile. Not you. You're actually very cool. But what you did here... I don't know how you don't see it, honestly.
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Raf
As for my clairvoyant skills, I suppose it would be too much to ask you to repost the paragraph leading up to my comment about awakened rage? You know, the one that sets up an easily refutable basis for my comment -- in the absence of a refutation, I suppose denouncing me as a wannabe clairvoyant is easier.
Certainly easier than addressing the serious points I raised in my post, which I can't help but notice you did not do. Easier to level a false accusation that I'm being like Martindale or Geer than it is to address the SUBSTANCE of my critique.
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Rocky
FWIW, Raf didn't need to read minds or exercise any form of clairvoyance. He simply read what you said, Skyrider and articulated reasonable inferences easily made from them.
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Rocky
Defending himself from assault? Really?
Here's your Smoking Gun about the witness who allegedly corroborated Wilson's story.
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Raf
I like "seemingly disturbed."
Because they're not, you know, ACTUALLY disturbed. There's no legitimate concern that police shoot and kill black people 21 times more often than they shoot and kill white people.
But I suppose pointing that out makes me in favor of ignoring the (believable but thus far completely uncorroborated stories of) beheadings of (not just any... CHRISTIAN) children.
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Raf
ISIL just executed 150 Muslim women as the world shrugs. juxtaposed with Christians in America who are in a full-scale panic over whether gay people will be allowed to get married
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Raf
would It have made a difference if the victims were Christian women? And if so, why?
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Rocky
I find the expression, "the world shrugs" intriguing.
While one inference (Raf stated) indicates your disapproval (Skyrider) of the Ferguson protests, I see much more to that expression.
Whether you mean it or not is certainly something you can clarify. I don't pretend to be able to read minds.
I do, however, read words. "The world shrugs" suggests you believe somebody (we?) should do something about the attack in Pakistan.
What response, by whom, paid for by whose tax dollars, do you believe would be the appropriate response?
Btw, your declaration "people seemingly disturbed
by a grand jury verdict wherein forensic evidence upheld a police officer in
Ferguson, MO defending himself from assault" reveals a lot too.
First, you've apparently passed judgment that a black teenager in an economically depressed community who seemingly committed a misdemeanor offense was rightfully executed.
If that's not what you meant, by all means, please clarify for us.
However, the grand jury declining to indict is not something that in and of itself supports a claim that the forensic evidence cleared Wilson.
The grand jury process is not even close to a trial in front of a fact finding jury and judge.
The grand jury failed to indict because it was given only the information and evidence the prosecutor wanted to give it. Transcripts have already shown that there was prosecutorial misconduct in the instructions one of the prosecutors gave to the jurors about a Missouri statute that had decades ago been declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS.
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Raf
You must not care about beheaded kids in Iraq, Rocky.
Wait, sorry, beheaded CHRISTIAN kids. Because that's relevant.
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Rocky
I care. I just don't personally have the resources to do anything about it.
I also don't think a knee jerk military response would necessarily either solve anything or do any good.
Solutions to major world complex problems generally require studied, complex, rational consideration before rushing off half-cocked into another endless war.
Solutions to major societal problems at home also require rational consideration and investigation into root causes before potentially successful attempts to solve those problems can be formulated.
It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I believed Johnny Townsend's BS about everything in and about life being simple.
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Allan
Geesh, all Skyrider did was use a CURRENT AMERICAN, maybe local ? situation as an EXAMPLE not a COMPARISON to illustrate a point of POSSIBLE double standard thinking ??!! Are we supposed to sit down and pre think EVERY FRACKN WORD IN A SENTENCE before we post ??!! I agree with Skyrider , this echoes of twi lol...I guess the real point is EVERYBODY is SELFISH. Millions die every week yet I betcha none of you nor myself lay awake at night devastated because an 80 year old in Turkmenistan (sp ?) died of a heart attack ?! Nooooo...why ? because we are really only affected by what directly affects us...merry frackn xmas
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Raf
"This echoes of TWI."
You know what echoes of TWI? Bogus comparisons that seem to illustrate a principle but actually mask another agenda. You know, like Eve's first mistake was questioning, and that masked the agenda of getting us to not question TWI.
If he wants to talk about Ferguson, bring it. But to imply (which he did) that protesting Ferguson was hypocritical because it was wrong, and mask it as a matter of priorities... it's wrong to protest against a cop who did something right while staying silent about beheaded children... that's despicable.
It's despicable because of its false dichotomy: one cause is a true injustice; the other is not. One cause should elicit our sympathy; the other should not. One cause is a true outrage; the other is not.
Anyone who wants to support the police in Ferguson, go right ahead. I'm not going to argue with you. But to take for granted that you're right, to dismiss the validity of the concerns of black America as illustrated by what happened there, and to do so using the heads of innocent children as props...?
Here's the argument of the opening post, rephrased, in a nutshell: If you don't believe Darren Wilson was innocent and that Michael Brown deserved to be shot and killed AND, acting on your failure to believe in Wilson's innocence, you find the shooting of Michael Brown an injustice worth protesting, BUT you have not done something to protest [unconfirmed reports of] the beheading of Christian children by ISIL, then you are a hypocrite.
What the bloody hell? One has nothing to do with the other. The "hypocrisy" label is misapplied and grossly unfair.
And pointing that out somehow makes me like Martindale or Geer (both of whom would have backed Officer Wilson, I guarandamntee it)?
Vile and disgusting. That Skyrider doesn't see it, surprises me.
That Allan doesn't see it... doesn't surprise me at all. I KNOW I'm on the right side of an issue when he opposes me.
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Raf
Saudi Arabia beheads gay people. The civilized world shrugs. Juxtapose that with Christians seemingly concerned about the sanctity of marriage who do nothing to ban divorce but lose their minds over where men who don't share their religion put their penises. Hypocrisy much?
If you don’t agree with me about Christians being hypocrites regarding the sanctity of marriage, you must be in favor of beheading gay people.
I can do this all day.
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Allan
Maybe skyrider said Christians aren't hypocrites ? I didn't...they are as hypocritical as EVERYONE else...so skyrider can post pretty much whatever skyrider wants about whatever skyrider wants and however skyrider wants to...surely ? without someone like you pointing the finger...unless you consider yourself ( less ) hypocritical than others, orrrr non- hypocritical at all...only difference is you're a moderator...hopefully not drunk on 'power'
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Raf
What are you babbling about? Was there a coherent point in there?
Report me if you think I violated a rule, allan.
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