I think it's great you are working on your writing!! I wish you the very best with it!!
What got me involved and committed? What a question....that makes the ole brain think back. I've been out for 28 years so you know I have a lot of backtracking to do in my thinking to answer that.
What got me involved was that I was at a very low point in my life. Very discouraged and depressed. Had Not finished college, and knew that I was messed up. This was in the 60's....and drinking really got me! I had a bad childhood, adopted, and my adopted father sexually abused me. So, I had drank a bit too much in college. Left College and got a job. Because of the fact I had gone to church growing up, I knew that God had to be the one to help me sort out things in my life. I didn't even know what the problem was, but I just couldn't keep it together. I really prayed and prayed asking God to direct me to some people who could tell me about God and could help me. Well, got fired from that job, and the very next job I took, there was like 12 Fellow laborers working there and so that is how I got connected with TWI...I signed the card and the rest was history.
Why did I stay and get committed. I really felt that TWI was the family I always wanted and needed. I felt I was "Home" I mean it was presented that way and I bought it. So, I just kept staying, taking classes, went wow. And even though there were red flags all the time, I got to the place where I ignored them. It was like I didn't know anything about much and they knew everything about everything. So even if I saw a red flag, I ignored it cause I had already found out they would be right and I would be wrong. Now on the spiritual side of it......when I was in H.S. I wanted to be a missionary and felt God called me to that. So when I got in TWI, I thought, This is IT! This is God working in my life fulfilling what I thought was a call of God on my life. I was very elated in the beginning. I mean Word over the World! I was very in love with a lot of the concepts. And even though there were a lot of things that didn't seem right, I still felt that I was suppose to be there.....I often said, I'm a lifer for TWI. Until the end......then I couldn't wait to leave. Things in the ministry just got crazy. And I found when I left, I was in worse condition than when I got in. I left TWI, but I couldn't get TWI out of me. It's taken all these years to feel like I am healed and that I have a good life today.
Congrats on writing!!! I do some writing too, so I know what it is to need some inspiration at times. Hope my brief story helps out.
Date and Switch was how my husband got in as well... I wasn't the date. Funny, he ran into his old fellowship coordinator today at work, and his daughter is the one who was the date and switch. They are all out now, thank God.
I just wanted to say that I think you write really well, conveying a lot in few words, and as a big mystery fan wish you the best with your book.
Not sure I can add anything - I never thought of myself as committed, in that I never went WOW or in the corps or gave up on normal relationships with my family and I kept making "non-believer" friends, but then I did stay involved a long time, partly because of the fun I'd had at times, especially in the earlier years, partly because I did keep finding nuggets in what I heard as time went on, but often because I felt I had to show up. Sometimes it was just a relatively undistracted time to read all the other verses on the page while tuning out the speaker. A point was reached fairly early on when I didn't even want to invite anyone because of all the explaining I would have to do later about behavior or jargon, but it took a long time for all the things that puzzled me to add up to my wanting to get away.
Many people, a coordinated effort. If I disappeared, left the state, I could be found. Just too many arguments with too many people. Leave the Ministry? How could you do that to your mother?
Edited to add:
It got so bad, . . . I contemplated it all atop the Grand Canyon.
Sometimes I think the other leap would have been less painful.
I can see that happening because things change over time. Where I lived at the Time I got in, things in my area were really good and most of us had little contact with anyone at the top. As time went on and upper leadership changed and some folks were nagged to death and they left. Eventually quite a few left around the P of t P..then more with the loyalty oath....
quote: Why would God get you into something and then get you out of it?
He wouldn't. We do that stuff ourselves. It says in the so called parable of the sower that the wicked one catches away that which was sown in the heart of someone who doesn't understand the word of the Kingdom. If the adversary can do that, couldn't God do something to help someone who hears and understands? He could do that for anyone regardless of where they heard the word.
I don't understand "God got me in, God got me out."
Did God tell you, "Hey, knock on that door. The person who answers it is going to help you in ways you never thought possible"?
Or was it a more [seemingly] mundane set of developments you attribute to God because they impressed you so much? Or was it remarkable, and that's how you knew it was God? (Like a burning bush or a talking donkey).
"God got me in" tells us what you concluded, but it doesn't tell us anything tangible.
For me, Word Wolf endured a bitterly cold night witnessing to me after (he firmly believes) he heard God tell him he was needed and directed him to where I was. It wasn't the fact that he found me that impressed me so much. It was what he said. It was a LONG conversation. An impressive one. I was impressed. I wanted to learn more. Etc.
Not, "God got me in." Maybe He did. Maybe He didn't. But saying He did doesn't convey the slightest bit of information.
Which is FINE, if you don't want to answer to question. But if you do [want to answer the question], it doesn't [answer anything].
Soooo...God got you into it ? lol or was it Wordwolfs persuasive manner/words ? Was Wordwolf pulling your chain when he said God directed him to you ?! As for me...it was my wife who was getting witnessed to over a period of time. I found out later she was waiting for me to decide. She may have been waiting awhile coz I wasn't one bit interested...until I saw it begin to snow inside my living room, on a clear summer day... ...actually, I just came home from work one night. felt 'prompted' to go check it out; asked my wife for the address and went. Nothing really spectacular, sorry ! Mind you, if it took a 'burning bush' incident for everyone to check out God, well, we'd have a planet covered in smoke wouldn't we ?!
I'm just saying how I got into it. You can judge for yourself whether it was God or man, but at least you know what happened. I can't tell you that God directed Word Wolf to me. I can tell you that was what I was told and I found the presentation of God's will and the approach to the Bible persuasive. But did God really tell Word Wolf where to find me? Not my story to tell.
P.S. Allan, thank you. Snarkiness aside, you answered my question.
Mind you, if it took a 'burning bush' incident for everyone to check out God, well, we'd have :rolleyes:/> a planet covered in smoke wouldn't we ?!
I never said it would or should take a burning bush to get someone to check out God. I asked "by what means did God get you in..." and followed that up in the next post with "was it [something] remarkable, and that's how you knew it was God? (Like a burning bush or a talking donkey)."
If a burning bush told me to check out a Bible fellowship, I would feel pretty strongly that "God got me in."
I wasn't asking you to justify why you checked out God, see? I was asking you for the basis of your statement "God got me in," which you graciously provided. Your wife told you about it. My wife's word has that same "thus saith the Lord" authority, so I get it. I do. ;)
If you're going to rebuke me, please properly accuse me. I offered no comment about what Allan perceived, felt or understood at the time. I asked him a question, which he graciously answered. Your rebuke is out of line and uncalled for. All posters' comments are welcome if on topic. Problem with me? Report it.
I taught a college writing course, and one of the major lessons of the course was striking the right balance between abstract and concrete language. That is, just because you are using words, it does not mean you are communicating most effectively. JavaJane's opening post is asking for anecdotes, stories, "characters and a plot," as it were.
The story is partially written from the standpoint of the victim's journals, and how she experiences "unexplainable" coincidences and what she thinks is divine intervention because of her involvement in the group...
Any stories would help - I won't share them specifically, but I could use some inspiration and a jogging of my own memories.
What makes a story? People. Things happening. Characters interact. Something happens. Someone changes.
"God got me in" is an abstraction (in the context of what the opening post is requestion: STORIES). God got you in? How? (Which Allan graciously answered).
My own story, with the few details I gave, fell perfectly in line with what JavaJane was seeking. It was an example of an "unexplainable coincidence" that I, at one time, thought was "divine intervention" because I was taught there were no such things as coincidences.
Yeah, I could have said "Word Wolf witnessed to me." And it would have been true. And yet it would have communicated so little. The fact that it was cold that night was relevant. There's more to the story. I don't know how much he would care to corroborate. But it was, as a whole, persuasive to me. He addressed things that were important to me, and pointed me to the Bible for solutions, advice, etc).
I could very easily turn some of these abstract sentences into concrete observations that would put you in the time and place of the setting. I'm not sure how much is needed, or how deep the interest would be, beyond what's already been said. Here's an image: it was at night, in winter. I was under a tree. I had a mop of thick, dark hair at the time. I was wearing a black leather coat and, if memory serves, black pants or jeans. It was Dec. 26, 1986, if I recall correctly. We were on City Island, a small island that is technically part of Bronx county. It was already cold, but because we were on an island, all breezes were sea breezes. The wind chill was not funny.
Word Wolf wasn't wearing his coat.
And it was a long talk.
It's a cool story (no pun intended). The idea that there was something supernatural to kick it off...? To me, it fed the notion that our encounter was no coincidence. It was what God wanted. And I desperately wanted to know what God wanted.
JavaJane asked for stories. "God got me in" "God got me out" is not a story. That's why I asked Allan to expand on the comment.
My comments were not only on topic, but they improved the on-topic quality of someone else's post.
Not needed? I beg to differ.
Unlike another poster, I did not challenge the truth or premise of Allan's statement. Now, why isn't that other poster being rebuked? I'm just curious.
I think I was the one who challenged the premise. I apologize. It just seemed rather pointless to me that God would get you into something, only to have to get you back out. You know, all that stuff about foreknowledge and whatnot. Seems like a better plan could have been found that didn't include all the unnecessary nonsense. Anyway, if it's stories you want, I'll try to put mine together. I don't get as much computer time as I used to so it might be a while.
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Allan
God got me involved, my own integrity kept me committed, Dave Lutz, Claudette Royal kept me sane, God got me out.
Allan
Not sure what you mean Johniam ? I'm glad for getting into it and I'm doubly glad for getting out lol
Allan
From what I see, how I see it, for my learning(in many many aspects, not just the good )and in furtherance of the gospel of Jesus Christ
newlife
Hey JavaJane!!!!
Good to see you again!!! I've missed you!!!
I think it's great you are working on your writing!! I wish you the very best with it!!
What got me involved and committed? What a question....that makes the ole brain think back. I've been out for 28 years so you know I have a lot of backtracking to do in my thinking to answer that.
What got me involved was that I was at a very low point in my life. Very discouraged and depressed. Had Not finished college, and knew that I was messed up. This was in the 60's....and drinking really got me! I had a bad childhood, adopted, and my adopted father sexually abused me. So, I had drank a bit too much in college. Left College and got a job. Because of the fact I had gone to church growing up, I knew that God had to be the one to help me sort out things in my life. I didn't even know what the problem was, but I just couldn't keep it together. I really prayed and prayed asking God to direct me to some people who could tell me about God and could help me. Well, got fired from that job, and the very next job I took, there was like 12 Fellow laborers working there and so that is how I got connected with TWI...I signed the card and the rest was history.
Why did I stay and get committed. I really felt that TWI was the family I always wanted and needed. I felt I was "Home" I mean it was presented that way and I bought it. So, I just kept staying, taking classes, went wow. And even though there were red flags all the time, I got to the place where I ignored them. It was like I didn't know anything about much and they knew everything about everything. So even if I saw a red flag, I ignored it cause I had already found out they would be right and I would be wrong. Now on the spiritual side of it......when I was in H.S. I wanted to be a missionary and felt God called me to that. So when I got in TWI, I thought, This is IT! This is God working in my life fulfilling what I thought was a call of God on my life. I was very elated in the beginning. I mean Word over the World! I was very in love with a lot of the concepts. And even though there were a lot of things that didn't seem right, I still felt that I was suppose to be there.....I often said, I'm a lifer for TWI. Until the end......then I couldn't wait to leave. Things in the ministry just got crazy. And I found when I left, I was in worse condition than when I got in. I left TWI, but I couldn't get TWI out of me. It's taken all these years to feel like I am healed and that I have a good life today.
Congrats on writing!!! I do some writing too, so I know what it is to need some inspiration at times. Hope my brief story helps out.
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Allan
Two of the country co-ordinators' goons were sent around to my house to potentially murder me, if my story may help I can pm you !!!
Actually one of the goons that turned up was the one that initially witnessed to me....oh, the irony of it all lol
what kept me involved longer than anything else was Dave Lutz' music
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outandabout
What newlife said, pretty much.
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waysider
My story is probably too long and boring to read. I'll just cut to the chase...Date and Switch.
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JavaJane
Date and Switch was how my husband got in as well... I wasn't the date. Funny, he ran into his old fellowship coordinator today at work, and his daughter is the one who was the date and switch. They are all out now, thank God.
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cara
Dear Java Jane,
I just wanted to say that I think you write really well, conveying a lot in few words, and as a big mystery fan wish you the best with your book.
Not sure I can add anything - I never thought of myself as committed, in that I never went WOW or in the corps or gave up on normal relationships with my family and I kept making "non-believer" friends, but then I did stay involved a long time, partly because of the fun I'd had at times, especially in the earlier years, partly because I did keep finding nuggets in what I heard as time went on, but often because I felt I had to show up. Sometimes it was just a relatively undistracted time to read all the other verses on the page while tuning out the speaker. A point was reached fairly early on when I didn't even want to invite anyone because of all the explaining I would have to do later about behavior or jargon, but it took a long time for all the things that puzzled me to add up to my wanting to get away.
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Bolshevik
Fear of family.
Many people, a coordinated effort. If I disappeared, left the state, I could be found. Just too many arguments with too many people. Leave the Ministry? How could you do that to your mother?
Edited to add:
It got so bad, . . . I contemplated it all atop the Grand Canyon.
Sometimes I think the other leap would have been less painful.
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Allan
God got me involved, my own integrity kept me committed, Dave Lutz, Claudette Royal kept me sane, God got me out.
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waysider
Why would God get you into something and then get you out of it?
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krys
I can see that happening because things change over time. Where I lived at the Time I got in, things in my area were really good and most of us had little contact with anyone at the top. As time went on and upper leadership changed and some folks were nagged to death and they left. Eventually quite a few left around the P of t P..then more with the loyalty oath....
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Allan
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johniam
quote: Why would God get you into something and then get you out of it?
He wouldn't. We do that stuff ourselves. It says in the so called parable of the sower that the wicked one catches away that which was sown in the heart of someone who doesn't understand the word of the Kingdom. If the adversary can do that, couldn't God do something to help someone who hears and understands? He could do that for anyone regardless of where they heard the word.
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Allan
Not sure what you mean Johniam ? I'm glad for getting into it and I'm doubly glad for getting out lol
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Raf
By what means did God get you in? By what means did God get you out?
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PatAnswer
I can understand "God got me in, God got me out."
Maybe better put "God got me involved, God got me out"
There was never supposed to be an in and out. That's what VPW supposedly hated.
But he couldn't stand it when people disagreed with him and (thrown) out they went and everyone else who wanted to stay in shaped up.
It's the body and Christ at the head.
There's learning to be had in many places.
I understand when He says "Look here."
I'm learning from a different ministry now. Keeping my distance.
I'm free to disagree with some of what they teach and no one's threatened to throw me out.
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Raf
I don't understand "God got me in, God got me out."
Did God tell you, "Hey, knock on that door. The person who answers it is going to help you in ways you never thought possible"?
Or was it a more [seemingly] mundane set of developments you attribute to God because they impressed you so much? Or was it remarkable, and that's how you knew it was God? (Like a burning bush or a talking donkey).
"God got me in" tells us what you concluded, but it doesn't tell us anything tangible.
For me, Word Wolf endured a bitterly cold night witnessing to me after (he firmly believes) he heard God tell him he was needed and directed him to where I was. It wasn't the fact that he found me that impressed me so much. It was what he said. It was a LONG conversation. An impressive one. I was impressed. I wanted to learn more. Etc.
Not, "God got me in." Maybe He did. Maybe He didn't. But saying He did doesn't convey the slightest bit of information.
Which is FINE, if you don't want to answer to question. But if you do [want to answer the question], it doesn't [answer anything].
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Allan
Soooo...God got you into it ? lol or was it Wordwolfs persuasive manner/words ? Was Wordwolf pulling your chain when he said God directed him to you ?! As for me...it was my wife who was getting witnessed to over a period of time. I found out later she was waiting for me to decide. She may have been waiting awhile coz I wasn't one bit interested...until I saw it begin to snow inside my living room, on a clear summer day...
...actually, I just came home from work one night. felt 'prompted' to go check it out; asked my wife for the address and went. Nothing really spectacular, sorry ! Mind you, if it took a 'burning bush' incident for everyone to check out God, well, we'd have 
a planet covered in smoke wouldn't we ?!
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Raf
I'm just saying how I got into it. You can judge for yourself whether it was God or man, but at least you know what happened. I can't tell you that God directed Word Wolf to me. I can tell you that was what I was told and I found the presentation of God's will and the approach to the Bible persuasive. But did God really tell Word Wolf where to find me? Not my story to tell.
P.S. Allan, thank you. Snarkiness aside, you answered my question.
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Raf
I never said it would or should take a burning bush to get someone to check out God. I asked "by what means did God get you in..." and followed that up in the next post with "was it [something] remarkable, and that's how you knew it was God? (Like a burning bush or a talking donkey)."
If a burning bush told me to check out a Bible fellowship, I would feel pretty strongly that "God got me in."
I wasn't asking you to justify why you checked out God, see? I was asking you for the basis of your statement "God got me in," which you graciously provided. Your wife told you about it. My wife's word has that same "thus saith the Lord" authority, so I get it. I do. ;)
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Twinky
I can completely understand what Allan's saying. The question was asked. From his perspective, Allan answered.
Raf, your comments aren't needed on what Allan perceived. felt, or understood, at the time.
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Raf
If you're going to rebuke me, please properly accuse me. I offered no comment about what Allan perceived, felt or understood at the time. I asked him a question, which he graciously answered. Your rebuke is out of line and uncalled for. All posters' comments are welcome if on topic. Problem with me? Report it.
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WordWolf
It's a dead issue now, because it was asked and answered already.
But, since at least one person misunderstood, I'll explain.
(I had no problem understanding.)
Raf asked for more information because Allan's answer was VAGUE.
Here's a hypothetical.
You're due to meet a friend at a place and time-
but the friend is missing the address.
You show up, prepared to wait or to have him fail to show up.
He shows up on time.
"How did you find the place?" you ask.
"Divine intervention," your friend replies.
Do you leave it at that? Most people wouldn't.
Did that mean the friend felt a stirring to follow someone else there?
Did he feel a leading to the correct location?
Did he suddenly run into someone who knew exactly how to get there?
Did someone walk up to him and suddenly volunteer to lead him there?
Did The Heavens open and a rolling voice announce the address and cross-streets?
Did a chariot of fire descend, give him a lift, and drop him off at the door?
Was he suddenly transported from his previous location to that one in an instant?
So, most people would ask what the friend meant.
Would he perceive that as them challenging wherher or not he was correct?
Most wouldn't. Many would smirk and explain what happened.
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Raf
I taught a college writing course, and one of the major lessons of the course was striking the right balance between abstract and concrete language. That is, just because you are using words, it does not mean you are communicating most effectively. JavaJane's opening post is asking for anecdotes, stories, "characters and a plot," as it were.
What makes a story? People. Things happening. Characters interact. Something happens. Someone changes.
"God got me in" is an abstraction (in the context of what the opening post is requestion: STORIES). God got you in? How? (Which Allan graciously answered).
My own story, with the few details I gave, fell perfectly in line with what JavaJane was seeking. It was an example of an "unexplainable coincidence" that I, at one time, thought was "divine intervention" because I was taught there were no such things as coincidences.
Yeah, I could have said "Word Wolf witnessed to me." And it would have been true. And yet it would have communicated so little. The fact that it was cold that night was relevant. There's more to the story. I don't know how much he would care to corroborate. But it was, as a whole, persuasive to me. He addressed things that were important to me, and pointed me to the Bible for solutions, advice, etc).
I could very easily turn some of these abstract sentences into concrete observations that would put you in the time and place of the setting. I'm not sure how much is needed, or how deep the interest would be, beyond what's already been said. Here's an image: it was at night, in winter. I was under a tree. I had a mop of thick, dark hair at the time. I was wearing a black leather coat and, if memory serves, black pants or jeans. It was Dec. 26, 1986, if I recall correctly. We were on City Island, a small island that is technically part of Bronx county. It was already cold, but because we were on an island, all breezes were sea breezes. The wind chill was not funny.
Word Wolf wasn't wearing his coat.
And it was a long talk.
It's a cool story (no pun intended). The idea that there was something supernatural to kick it off...? To me, it fed the notion that our encounter was no coincidence. It was what God wanted. And I desperately wanted to know what God wanted.
JavaJane asked for stories. "God got me in" "God got me out" is not a story. That's why I asked Allan to expand on the comment.
My comments were not only on topic, but they improved the on-topic quality of someone else's post.
Not needed? I beg to differ.
Unlike another poster, I did not challenge the truth or premise of Allan's statement. Now, why isn't that other poster being rebuked? I'm just curious.
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waysider
I think I was the one who challenged the premise. I apologize. It just seemed rather pointless to me that God would get you into something, only to have to get you back out. You know, all that stuff about foreknowledge and whatnot. Seems like a better plan could have been found that didn't include all the unnecessary nonsense. Anyway, if it's stories you want, I'll try to put mine together. I don't get as much computer time as I used to so it might be a while.
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