mj, I think you make some very good points about offshoots, and why participation in them would suit folks....why some folks don`t feel they need em ... and that the thought of participation actually gives some folks the willies.
IF MDVaden has been told that it's profitless to be posting on here and to try to have a dialog with us and IF it has been suggested to MDVaden that he avoid GSpot altogether, THEN I hope that he realizes he is being manipulated, isolated from hearing the "other side of the story" and that the WAYGB is alive and well.
What would a grown man think of being involved with an organization that spies on....errr...monitors websites that expose the ugly side and hidden skeletons in the whited sepulchre of the group? What would he think of them suggesting what he should do with his time, mind and thoughts?
I'm NOT saying that's what happened, but I AM saying that it's highly likely and I HOPE that IF that's what happened that it is a wake up call to MDVaden that things on here just MIGHT be true. Hopefully, IF this is what happened, it will be a major red flag for him that he can no longer ignore. After all, IF this is what happened, it's happened exactly as we said it would and HOPEFULLY that would lend credibility to what he has read on here.
But then again, MDVaden could just be on vacation.
Actually, M D Vaden has not been posting for three reasons.
1. gscafe is an okay place to visit, but it lacks class in general. I participate on up to 20 forums during the year, and gscafe, overall is the most heavy - a lot of old laundry laying around. It's fairly noticeable at the first exposure. Maybe the old dogs in here get used to it. But, maybe some people need to get away from the same old story for a few months and come back for a fresh perspective. Me... I'm just not around this much negative demotional conversation. Take the Oregon landscape board or the landscapers association here for example. Nobody at any of those meetings spends much time at all talking about who they think is bad in the industry. The newsletters primarily focus on positive pruductive information. And it's obvious at the first visit - first exposure - and continually thereafter.
2. I bought an animation program that I've been fiddling with for several days.
3. Finally, I've got a figures of speech and studies pages intitiated and linked from my articles page.
So when you really get down to it - I have a lot of fun and positive stuff to do, including moderating a pruning forum for a Pacific NW gardening site.
Last week, I noticed that I had 400 posts on an arborist forum after 2 years.
When I looked in here, it was amazing that some people have 4000 posts by their name.
Seeing how this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics, I can't imagine posting more than about 4 more times in 2005. I figure, about all I can say is the facts. What I believe, how well things are going for me, and where I stand. Other than that, posting would become like a broken record.
Anyway, most of you have been hospitable, so I wish you well until next time, whenever that may be.
Landscape season is kicking into gear, so I may be off forums a lot anyhow. I may even drop moderating for the one - I already left a subtle message last month.
Seeing how this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics, I can't imagine posting more than about 4 more times in 2005. I figure, about all I can say is the facts. What I believe, how well things are going for me, and where I stand. Other than that, posting would become like a broken record.
mdvaden....from your aloof position, it's quite understandable.
To say that this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics is like saying......"I don't really like landscaping. I get tired of mowing grass."
Come on guys(and girls !)reading mdvadens posts hasn't it ever occurred to you that there may be TWIers'begin to post solely with the intent to at some point try to put people off GS ?!Quite clever really, something I would probably do if my mind wasn't renewed to the Word!!!!!
"gscafe is an okay place to visit, but it lacks class in general. I participate on up to 20 forums during the year, and gscafe, overall is the most heavy - a lot of old laundry laying around. It's fairly noticeable at the first exposure. Maybe the old dogs in here get used to it. But, maybe some people need to get away from the same old story for a few months and come back for a fresh perspective. Me... I'm just not around this much negative demotional conversation."
Can you say denile??? Geeze louise we aren`t TALKING about frigging gardening here...For petes SAKE....we are talking about some really destructive experiences....lives that were impacted negativly by participation in a viscious cult ... It is very hard to put a *happy* spin on the darkness endures when people who claimed to represent God... instead used their authority to destroy peoples lives without compunction.....damn RIGHT things are going to be a little *heavier* here than your run of the mill web site.
Gardening???? we aren`t TALKING about planting frigging petunias.....
To liken the suffering of your brothers and sisters, the spiritual and physical betrayal and even death of people....to *old laundry* indicates one really calloused individual....I`d even have to assign you to the *conscious seared with a hot iron* catagory.
To liken us here to old dogs, well, all I have to say is, that it is a darn shame that you cannot see more than that....
No, we're not talking about petunias, we're talking about offshoots...Hey darth vaden...if you don't like it here, why did you start the thread?
Anyway...I find it interesting that these offshoot "leaders" are so obsessed with having people join THEIR group...Back in the twi days, these same guys competed against each other for top positions and prestiege...The old "I ran more classes than you did" mentality, which was the gauntlet that one ran in order to climb the wretched way tree...is still evident today with these splinter groups. Why is it so damn important to JAL or VF or JS or any of these other clowns that people indentify with them? I'll tell you why...it's because they always wanted to be just like Veepee, they wanted to be the top honcho, the big banana, the holy kahuna, the mogster!...Every new recruit they land, reflects on how great THEY are, how wonderful THEIR ministry is, how their religiously inadequet lives need the validation of glassy eyed fu*kchimps setting the mints on the podium for them.
It's almost unbelievable that after the "twi experience", these Elmer Gantry wannabes are still trying to create God in their own image and then slam dunk every sincere "follower" that ventures too close to their lairs...
"Don't lend your hand to raise no flag upon a ship of fools"...Jerry Garcia/ Robert Hunter
Maybe it is just the folks I know, or a particular couple of groups....but I have seen more than once, folks after leaving twi....go from being kind and personable to arrogant and cold, within a year of active participation in an offshoot.
This raises red flags for me.
The antipathy that offshot participants seem to feel for folks here is another sign to me that something is not right....I thought that we left that arrogance and disdane for anyone not in our group crap with twi.
It seems like they are even worse than when they were in twi.
Actually most of my experiences are with an offshoot group. Offshoots are amazingly similar to the Way in many respects. I've gotten much of my healing and learning through this forum from other ex-wayfers who have been through the similar doctrine and "group think" and stuff.
The antipathy that offshot participants seem to feel for folks here is another sign to me that something is not right....I thought that we left that arrogance and disdane for anyone not in our group crap with twi.
Yeah, rascal.....it is evident. I know that Larry Pxnnarxlo has told "his group" to stay off these boards.
I tend to think that the more an ex-twier considers the WHOLE PICTURE.....self, initial involvement, system, home-based exclusiveness, taped teachings, etc...... one then is able to cut ties and experience greater self-esteem and life.
MDVaden, your post raises more questions than it answers:
1. Why come on here and post questions if you aren't really interested in the answers and discussing the topic YOU brought up?
quote:
1. gscafe is an okay place to visit, but it lacks class in general. I participate on up to 20 forums during the year, and gscafe, overall is the most heavy - a lot of old laundry laying around. Me... I'm just not around this much negative demotional conversation.
Yeah, you're right. I suppose on landscaping forums there really aren't many families who have been raped, taken advantage of, abused or had lives ripped apart by rose bushes. Compare apples to apples, my friend and you might be surprised. Check out some other recovery forums (more than one) before you judge this one.
quote:
2. I bought an animation program that I've been fiddling with for several days....So when you really get down to it - I have a lot of fun and positive stuff to do
Good for you. Despite your attempts to pigeon hole us like you learned from the great lcm, most all of us DO have other things we enjoy outside of this board.
quote:
Last week, I noticed that I had 400 posts on an arborist forum after 2 years.
When I looked in here, it was amazing that some people have 4000 posts by their name.
I thought you were taught that the Bible says not to compare ourselves with each other and that it isn't wise. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
quote:
Seeing how this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics, I can't imagine posting more than about 4 more times in 2005.
WOW! You mean you never go over the same topics on all the other forums you're on? I'm amazed. Is it because if someone new joins the board and asks a question that's already been answered you scold them and tell them to look in the archives? OR is it because your groups never have any new people join? If so,I wonder why that is....
I happen to belong to quite a few other forums, some health, some dog related, some just for fun.... We get the same questions all the time. The same topics come up from time to time on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE FORUMS. When new people come on and ask a question we gladly answer their question and discuss the topic for their benefit. It's about things we like to talk about and with people we enjoy chatting online. Sometimes the topic gets heavily discussed, other times is short, depending on the mood of those posting at that time. But we certainly never criticize someone for bringing up something that's already been discussed. I don't think I would like your groups very much since that's the case. I go in cycles posting a lot at some and just a little at other times. Like you, MDVaden, it depends on what's going on in my life. If GSpot isn't for you that's fine, but don't climb up on some high horse and judge the rest of us because we enjoy and/or come here because there are new people coming on board and there are people "in" TWI who want desparately to get out but don't want their families ripped apart. Some of us are here to help them. Some of us are here to join up with good friends we once had and lost touch with because of the M&A doctrine of TWI.
You don't know us, although we'd gladly share ourselves with you, so keep your incorrect and false judgements to yourself. All you're doing is proving to us that we did the right thing by leaving TWI. That "holier than thou" mentality must get really old sometimes. Is it tiring to always have to pretend to be perfect?
Yeah, Living Sanctified in Obedience is A LOT different than Prevailing in Obedience with Biblical Understanding or Speaking the Truth in Love About Obedience
Seeing how this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics, I can't imagine posting more than about 4 more times in 2005.
There are new people coming to the spot frequently and therefore many things need to be repeated. I say we continue to repeat until everyone has had a chance to hear what really goes on in TWI and gets courage to get out. IMHO
Thanks Paw for keeping the cafe open to help those in need.
I have innies contact me almost daily in the private topics. Guess what they're asking about? Links to the threads about specific topics we've already discussed and new questions about stuff we've already discussed before! :D-->
I really think MDVaden didn't mean what he said or didn't really stop and think logically about it. It actually sounds like TWI rhetoric that's been ingrained into their minds by leadership through consistent reptition.
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rascal
mj, I think you make some very good points about offshoots, and why participation in them would suit folks....why some folks don`t feel they need em ... and that the thought of participation actually gives some folks the willies.
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Shellon
Where'd you go mdvaden?
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Belle
IF MDVaden has been told that it's profitless to be posting on here and to try to have a dialog with us and IF it has been suggested to MDVaden that he avoid GSpot altogether, THEN I hope that he realizes he is being manipulated, isolated from hearing the "other side of the story" and that the WAYGB is alive and well.
What would a grown man think of being involved with an organization that spies on....errr...monitors websites that expose the ugly side and hidden skeletons in the whited sepulchre of the group? What would he think of them suggesting what he should do with his time, mind and thoughts?
I'm NOT saying that's what happened, but I AM saying that it's highly likely and I HOPE that IF that's what happened that it is a wake up call to MDVaden that things on here just MIGHT be true. Hopefully, IF this is what happened, it will be a major red flag for him that he can no longer ignore. After all, IF this is what happened, it's happened exactly as we said it would and HOPEFULLY that would lend credibility to what he has read on here.
But then again, MDVaden could just be on vacation.
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mdvaden
Actually, M D Vaden has not been posting for three reasons.
1. gscafe is an okay place to visit, but it lacks class in general. I participate on up to 20 forums during the year, and gscafe, overall is the most heavy - a lot of old laundry laying around. It's fairly noticeable at the first exposure. Maybe the old dogs in here get used to it. But, maybe some people need to get away from the same old story for a few months and come back for a fresh perspective. Me... I'm just not around this much negative demotional conversation. Take the Oregon landscape board or the landscapers association here for example. Nobody at any of those meetings spends much time at all talking about who they think is bad in the industry. The newsletters primarily focus on positive pruductive information. And it's obvious at the first visit - first exposure - and continually thereafter.
2. I bought an animation program that I've been fiddling with for several days.
3. Finally, I've got a figures of speech and studies pages intitiated and linked from my articles page.
So when you really get down to it - I have a lot of fun and positive stuff to do, including moderating a pruning forum for a Pacific NW gardening site.
Last week, I noticed that I had 400 posts on an arborist forum after 2 years.
When I looked in here, it was amazing that some people have 4000 posts by their name.
Seeing how this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics, I can't imagine posting more than about 4 more times in 2005. I figure, about all I can say is the facts. What I believe, how well things are going for me, and where I stand. Other than that, posting would become like a broken record.
Anyway, most of you have been hospitable, so I wish you well until next time, whenever that may be.
Landscape season is kicking into gear, so I may be off forums a lot anyhow. I may even drop moderating for the one - I already left a subtle message last month.
Godspeed.
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mj412
ha ha mdvaden!
Well that post kind of makes me sound stupid and boring because I write on this forum.
You have such a full exciting life!!
And your posting is sooo intellectual!!!
Wow Im impressed!
lol . really lol what a fancy insult!
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WordWolf
Three things.
A) Thanks for posting.
B) If you think there's a negative tone HERE, you should check out some
12-step boards and some OTHER "survivors of" boards. We're
"survivors of twi". We're actually pretty chipper compared to a lot of
those.
C)You think this BOARD "mainly goes over the same basic topics",
Maybe.
By comparison to twi, however, we can be pretty innovative.
A number of subjects here MUST keep coming up, as new people arrive and
need to be informed of things they didn't know existed.
A number of subjects are new each time.
Compare a year of twi with a year of the GSC.
Which one gets more repetitive?
Even counting the "PFAL is the new Bible" heresy, the threads here demonstrate
a LOT more diversity than is PERMITTED in twi.
Judge for YOURSELF, please. Compare them side by side.
God bless and take care.
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outofdafog
mj - vaden's post is
"poopoo" wrapped up real purty just like TWI was. Don't take off the wrapping - cuz it is sure gonna stink"
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skyrider
mdvaden....from your aloof position, it's quite understandable.
To say that this forum mainly goes over the same basic topics is like saying......"I don't really like landscaping. I get tired of mowing grass."
Have fun mowing.
:)-->
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Allan
Come on guys(and girls !)reading mdvadens posts hasn't it ever occurred to you that there may be TWIers'begin to post solely with the intent to at some point try to put people off GS ?!Quite clever really, something I would probably do if my mind wasn't renewed to the Word!!!!!
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Shellon
mdvaden said:
"gscafe is an okay place to visit, but it lacks class in general. I participate on up to 20 forums during the year, and gscafe, overall is the most heavy - a lot of old laundry laying around. It's fairly noticeable at the first exposure. Maybe the old dogs in here get used to it. But, maybe some people need to get away from the same old story for a few months and come back for a fresh perspective. Me... I'm just not around this much negative demotional conversation."
Crack me up, how do you spell pompous?
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rascal
Can you say denile??? Geeze louise we aren`t TALKING about frigging gardening here...For petes SAKE....we are talking about some really destructive experiences....lives that were impacted negativly by participation in a viscious cult ... It is very hard to put a *happy* spin on the darkness endures when people who claimed to represent God... instead used their authority to destroy peoples lives without compunction.....damn RIGHT things are going to be a little *heavier* here than your run of the mill web site.
Gardening???? we aren`t TALKING about planting frigging petunias.....
To liken the suffering of your brothers and sisters, the spiritual and physical betrayal and even death of people....to *old laundry* indicates one really calloused individual....I`d even have to assign you to the *conscious seared with a hot iron* catagory.
To liken us here to old dogs, well, all I have to say is, that it is a darn shame that you cannot see more than that....
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Shellon
LMAO
:D-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
No, we're not talking about petunias, we're talking about offshoots...Hey darth vaden...if you don't like it here, why did you start the thread?
Anyway...I find it interesting that these offshoot "leaders" are so obsessed with having people join THEIR group...Back in the twi days, these same guys competed against each other for top positions and prestiege...The old "I ran more classes than you did" mentality, which was the gauntlet that one ran in order to climb the wretched way tree...is still evident today with these splinter groups. Why is it so damn important to JAL or VF or JS or any of these other clowns that people indentify with them? I'll tell you why...it's because they always wanted to be just like Veepee, they wanted to be the top honcho, the big banana, the holy kahuna, the mogster!...Every new recruit they land, reflects on how great THEY are, how wonderful THEIR ministry is, how their religiously inadequet lives need the validation of glassy eyed fu*kchimps setting the mints on the podium for them.
It's almost unbelievable that after the "twi experience", these Elmer Gantry wannabes are still trying to create God in their own image and then slam dunk every sincere "follower" that ventures too close to their lairs...
"Don't lend your hand to raise no flag upon a ship of fools"...Jerry Garcia/ Robert Hunter
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rascal
Maybe it is just the folks I know, or a particular couple of groups....but I have seen more than once, folks after leaving twi....go from being kind and personable to arrogant and cold, within a year of active participation in an offshoot.
This raises red flags for me.
The antipathy that offshot participants seem to feel for folks here is another sign to me that something is not right....I thought that we left that arrogance and disdane for anyone not in our group crap with twi.
It seems like they are even worse than when they were in twi.
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RottieGrrrl
Actually most of my experiences are with an offshoot group. Offshoots are amazingly similar to the Way in many respects. I've gotten much of my healing and learning through this forum from other ex-wayfers who have been through the similar doctrine and "group think" and stuff.
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skyrider
Yeah, rascal.....it is evident. I know that Larry Pxnnarxlo has told "his group" to stay off these boards.
I tend to think that the more an ex-twier considers the WHOLE PICTURE.....self, initial involvement, system, home-based exclusiveness, taped teachings, etc...... one then is able to cut ties and experience greater self-esteem and life.
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Belle
MDVaden, your post raises more questions than it answers:
1. Why come on here and post questions if you aren't really interested in the answers and discussing the topic YOU brought up?
Yeah, you're right. I suppose on landscaping forums there really aren't many families who have been raped, taken advantage of, abused or had lives ripped apart by rose bushes. Compare apples to apples, my friend and you might be surprised. Check out some other recovery forums (more than one) before you judge this one.
Good for you. Despite your attempts to pigeon hole us like you learned from the great lcm, most all of us DO have other things we enjoy outside of this board.
I thought you were taught that the Bible says not to compare ourselves with each other and that it isn't wise. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
WOW! You mean you never go over the same topics on all the other forums you're on? I'm amazed. Is it because if someone new joins the board and asks a question that's already been answered you scold them and tell them to look in the archives? OR is it because your groups never have any new people join? If so,I wonder why that is....
I happen to belong to quite a few other forums, some health, some dog related, some just for fun.... We get the same questions all the time. The same topics come up from time to time on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE FORUMS. When new people come on and ask a question we gladly answer their question and discuss the topic for their benefit. It's about things we like to talk about and with people we enjoy chatting online. Sometimes the topic gets heavily discussed, other times is short, depending on the mood of those posting at that time. But we certainly never criticize someone for bringing up something that's already been discussed. I don't think I would like your groups very much since that's the case. I go in cycles posting a lot at some and just a little at other times. Like you, MDVaden, it depends on what's going on in my life. If GSpot isn't for you that's fine, but don't climb up on some high horse and judge the rest of us because we enjoy and/or come here because there are new people coming on board and there are people "in" TWI who want desparately to get out but don't want their families ripped apart. Some of us are here to help them. Some of us are here to join up with good friends we once had and lost touch with because of the M&A doctrine of TWI.
You don't know us, although we'd gladly share ourselves with you, so keep your incorrect and false judgements to yourself. All you're doing is proving to us that we did the right thing by leaving TWI. That "holier than thou" mentality must get really old sometimes. Is it tiring to always have to pretend to be perfect?
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Raf
This may be the GS Cafe Quote of the Year. It's certainly a nominee.
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alfakat
and which repetition is real and which is just a bunch of worn-out Memorex...?????
and all the car forums I belong to constantly cover the same ground...
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Oakspear
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Raf
Way Magazines never go over the same ground.
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Oakspear
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gladtobeout
There are new people coming to the spot frequently and therefore many things need to be repeated. I say we continue to repeat until everyone has had a chance to hear what really goes on in TWI and gets courage to get out. IMHO
Thanks Paw for keeping the cafe open to help those in need.
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Belle
I have innies contact me almost daily in the private topics. Guess what they're asking about? Links to the threads about specific topics we've already discussed and new questions about stuff we've already discussed before!
:D-->
I really think MDVaden didn't mean what he said or didn't really stop and think logically about it. It actually sounds like TWI rhetoric that's been ingrained into their minds by leadership through consistent reptition.
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