Senior Citizen Servitude

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 11/7/2014 at 4:37 PM, outandabout said:

I know what happened when you no long abundantly shared - you had MORE money!!!

Out, for sure!!

[skyrider]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2014 at 9:38 AM, skyrider said:

As more and more twi-followers reach the mid-60s age bracket, will they stay faithful to twi?

.....will they continue to go out witnessing at the nearest malls?

.....will these senior folk give 10-15% of their monthly income to twi?

.....will these long-standing followers go to fellowship 3X a week?

Twi has always been fixated on groupthink....and moving as a group.

Will rosie and co. be willing to cut them some slack in their golden years?

Or.....will local corps leaders continue to be hard-hearted and drive them away?

Yes, many churches are having the same challenges.

But....I tend to think that twi doesn't mind driving old folks away.

Perhaps.....I'm wrong on this.

 

Well.......since posting these questions in November 2014, the cult has definitely answered them for me.  That "kinder and gentler" messaging was a lie.

That "Revival and Restoration" Group addressed some of these concerns when Rosalie & Directors tried to initiate another "program" for those nearing retirement or retired.  In essence, the twit-cult wanted to slave-drive these corps with hard-hitting schedules/quotas/discipline/control to keep them on the hamster wheel.

THAT.......was the my driving concern for starting this thread "senior citizen servitude."

In a cult...........the hard-hearted "servitude" never stops no matter one's age.

[Bolshevik]

49 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, I don't remember TWI teaching that, but I left in 1988.  Perhaps that was taught after I left.  I know the Navy taught me to be responsible for my actions.  I hated my time in the Navy, 1985-1990, but I did learn a lot while I was in. "I am responsible for my actions.''. 

It was taught in the 90s. 

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

Just now, Bolshevik said:

It was taught in the 90s. 

 

Bol, thanks!!  Now, I understand why I didn't remember hearing it!! 

[Bolshevik]

9 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, thanks!!  Now, I understand why I didn't remember hearing it!! 

 

It gave follower's a reason not to worry about retirement. . . . You have kids?  That's GOD's plan for you in old age.  Believe. 

Just another way followers push responsibility on to others around them by choosing to follow TWI leadership.

(of course they'll claim Leadership made them do it blah blah blah)

[Grace Valerie Claire]

16 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

 

It gave follower's a reason not to worry about retirement. . . . You have kids?  That's GOD's plan for you in old age.  Believe. 

Just another way followers push responsibility on to others around them by choosing to follow TWI leadership.

(of course they'll claim Leadership made them do it blah blah blah)

Bol, what a crock!!  I don't have kids; who is going to take care of me when I'm old!!  TWI was so full of S--t!!!  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

40 minutes ago, skyrider said:

 

Well.......since posting these questions in November 2014, the cult has definitely answered them for me.  That "kinder and gentler" messaging was a lie.

That "Revival and Restoration" Group addressed some of these concerns when Rosalie & Directors tried to initiate another "program" for those nearing retirement or retired.  In essence, the twit-cult wanted to slave-drive these corps with hard-hitting schedules/quotas/discipline/control to keep them on the hamster wheel.

THAT.......was the my driving concern for starting this thread "senior citizen servitude."

In a cult...........the hard-hearted "servitude" never stops no matter one's age.

Sky, now that I am 60, I want to do what I want to do!!  To Hell with TWI, they never did Jack for me!!  But, you have a good point, if you stay in a cult, you are subject to the cult's rules, no matter your age.  IMO, that is one reason why it is important, to leave a cult ASAP.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 11/27/2014 at 11:07 AM, waysider said:

Good for you, Johnny. I wish you luck with that.

"No man is an island.".....John Donne

John, you say that now.  Wait until you retire; you might think differently.

[Bolshevik]

On 6/27/2017 at 5:37 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, I can only speak for myself.  I was 21, when got involved in TWI.  No one forced me to take the class; I was eager to take it.  I finished the class in July of 1978, and in August, I went  WOW.  My WOW year sucked; after the rent, and other bills were paid, I had very little money left.  Often times, I didn't have enough money to buy food; if you didn't have money for food, you starved!!  No one held a gun to my head; I could have left the field; many WOWs did.  I think adults had choices to stay, or leave TWI; again no one held a gun to our heads to make us stay.  Kids were different; they had to stay with their parents.  They didn't have any say in the matter.  Some people stayed in TWI, because they were married, had kids, and earned a paycheck from TWI.  But, that did not apply to me; I was not married, did not have kids, and did not have a job with TWI.  If I had been smart, I would have left TWI, long before I did.  It was my choice to stay; it was my choice to leave.  Perhaps you didn't have a choice if you stayed, or left, but many of us did.  I was responsible for my behavior then, and I am responsible for my behavior now.

 

Grace 

This was still during the time of The Cold War?

Maybe you did have a gun to your head.  A nuclear warhead.  You had no choice in that.

TWI and the events and people within it makes more sense, in hindsight, in light of knowing that VPW was malicious from the start.

I have wondered if the environment that allowed him to do this was uncertainty created by The Cold War.  It would affect everyone directly and indirectly.

Maybe a stretch.  Just a thought.

 

 

[outandabout]

We didn't have a gun to our heads but I do remember the teaching in WOW training about "vowing a vow" so we were trained to believe that we were breaking a promise to God if we left the WOW field and thus bad things would happen to us.  A mental cage.

[Bolshevik]

My understanding is that there were nukes pointed as the United States and many other countries.  And these nukes were not imaginations.

Were these the times TWI originally thrived?

[Grace Valerie Claire]

50 minutes ago, outandabout said:

We didn't have a gun to our heads but I do remember the teaching in WOW training about "vowing a vow" so we were trained to believe that we were breaking a promise to God if we left the WOW field and thus bad things would happen to us.  A mental cage.

Out, bingo!!  I remember hearing that Bulls--t!!  A lot of WOWs left in 1978-1979.  There were times I wanted to leave, but I didn't.  But I didn't go WOW a second time; once was more than enough for me.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

 

Grace 

This was still during the time of The Cold War?

Maybe you did have a gun to your head.  A nuclear warhead.  You had no choice in that.

TWI and the events and people within it makes more sense, in hindsight, in light of knowing that VPW was malicious from the start.

I have wondered if the environment that allowed him to do this was uncertainty created by The Cold War.  It would affect everyone directly and indirectly.

Maybe a stretch.  Just a thought.

 

 

Bol, I think if the Internet had been around in the late 70's, I think I would have read up on TWI.  Perhaps I would never have gotten involved with VPW, and his ministry.  

[Bolshevik]

1 minute ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, I think if the Internet had been around in the late 70's, I think I would have read up on TWI.  Perhaps I would never have gotten involved with VPW, and his ministry.  

Maybe you would have.  Everyone does say that.  It's just not what actually happened.  Which is why I ask.

I'm not sure that the internet ended the Cold War, or will it stop the next war.

Nor has the internet altered the DNA of human beings.  Maybe it has.

There will be more uncertain times.   Internet, or no internet.

 

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

Just now, Bolshevik said:

Maybe you would have.  Everyone does say that.  It's just not what actually happened.  Which is why I ask.

I'm not sure that the internet ended the Cold War, or will it stop the next war.

Nor has the internet altered the DNA of human beings.  Maybe it has.

There will be more uncertain times.   Internet, or no internet.

 

 

Bol, we have a winner!!!

[Bolshevik]

34 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, we have a winner!!!

Ha, I don't know about that.

GSC is here to tell the other side of the Story.

It should having meaning, too.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

5 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Ha, I don't know about that.

GSC is here to tell the other side of the Story.

It should having meaning, too.

Bol, you are so modest!  For many of us, the GSC is where we can tell, and hear, the other side of TWI.  

[waysider]

4 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

My understanding is that there were nukes pointed as the United States and many other countries.  And these nukes were not imaginations.

Were these the times TWI originally thrived?

Yes. There was a huge push around the time of the bicentennial. (1975) Supposedly, the communists were plotting to invade us. In FellowLaborers, we had an emergency meeting where we physically destroyed the mimeograph  plates used for the state newsletter (so the enemy couldn't get hold of them and know our identities). We built a root cellar in the side of the hill behind the Ohio BRC. to store food stuffs. We had our own rather large garden plot where we raised vegetables for the groups' consumption. There was a lot of other similar activity. Wierwille had supposedly gotten revelation that something big was about to happen. Of course, the real truth was that Wierwille was reacting to information he was getting directly from extremist groups, such as Liberty Lobby and the John Birch Society. Ultimately, our collective believing was effective enough to stave off the evil hoards.  (Does that remind you of anyone?... Hint: the Seekers)

Edited July 13, 2017 by waysider

[Grace Valerie Claire]

1 hour ago, waysider said:

Yes. There was a huge push around the time of the bicentennial. (1975) Supposedly, the communists were plotting to invade us. In FellowLaborers, we had an emergency meeting where we physically destroyed the mimeograph  plates used for the state newsletter (so the enemy couldn't get hold of them and know our identities). We built a root cellar in the side of the hill behind the Ohio BRC. to store food stuffs. We had our own rather large garden plot where we raised vegetables for the groups' consumption. There was a lot of other similar activity. Wierwille had supposedly gotten revelation that something big was about to happen. Of course, the real truth was that Wierwille was reacting to information he was getting directly from extremist groups, such as Liberty Lobby and the John Birch Society. Ultimately, our collective believing was effective enough to stave off the evil hoards.  (Does that remind you of anyone?... Hint: the Seekers)

Way, who were the seekers??

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, waysider said:

Yes. There was a huge push around the time of the bicentennial. (1975) Supposedly, the communists were plotting to invade us. In FellowLaborers, we had an emergency meeting where we physically destroyed the mimeograph  plates used for the state newsletter (so the enemy couldn't get hold of them and know our identities). We built a root cellar in the side of the hill behind the Ohio BRC. to store food stuffs. We had our own rather large garden plot where we raised vegetables for the groups' consumption. There was a lot of other similar activity. Wierwille had supposedly gotten revelation that something big was about to happen. Of course, the real truth was that Wierwille was reacting to information he was getting directly from extremist groups, such as Liberty Lobby and the John Birch Society. Ultimately, our collective believing was effective enough to stave off the evil hoards.  (Does that remind you of anyone?... Hint: the Seekers)

Fox News broadcaster Bret Baier (with a co-author) wrote Three Days in January which examines historical records regarding Eisenhower's farewell speech. Baier suggests the USSR wasn't likely to actually attack the US.

[waysider]

10 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Fox News broadcaster Bret Baier (with a co-author) wrote Three Days in January which examines historical records regarding Eisenhower's farewell speech. Baier suggests the USSR wasn't likely to actually attack the US.

I like Ike!

[waysider]

27 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Way, who were the seekers??

Click the link in my post.

[Bolshevik]

1 hour ago, waysider said:

Yes. There was a huge push around the time of the bicentennial. (1975) Supposedly, the communists were plotting to invade us. In FellowLaborers, we had an emergency meeting where we physically destroyed the mimeograph  plates used for the state newsletter (so the enemy couldn't get hold of them and know our identities). We built a root cellar in the side of the hill behind the Ohio BRC. to store food stuffs. We had our own rather large garden plot where we raised vegetables for the groups' consumption. There was a lot of other similar activity. Wierwille had supposedly gotten revelation that something big was about to happen. Of course, the real truth was that Wierwille was reacting to information he was getting directly from extremist groups, such as Liberty Lobby and the John Birch Society. Ultimately, our collective believing was effective enough to stave off the evil hoards.  (Does that remind you of anyone?... Hint: the Seekers)

LCM constantly pushed "The Attack of The Adversary" . . .  I do not know if VPW did the same  . . . but is was using fear (while saying not to have fear at the same time)

If many groups were pushing "The USSR was going to attack" and promoting fear,

Any chance you think those two, The Adversary and The USSR, well, the fear of one led to the fear of the other?  The Adversary took the place of the Absent USSR?

 

[waysider]

1 minute ago, Bolshevik said:

LCM constantly pushed "The Attack of The Adversary" . . .  I do not know if VPW did the same  . . . but is was using fear (while saying not to have fear at the same time)

If many groups were pushing "The USSR was going to attack" and promoting fear,

Any chance you think those two, The Adversary and The USSR, well, the fear of one led to the fear of the other?  The Adversary took the place of the Absent USSR?

 

This atmosphere of fear was quite prevalent at that time. As you indicated, it was not exclusive to The Way. Maybe that made it easier to accept. I don't know. It was a one-step-removed kind of thing. The U.S.S.R was out to get us ...and it was the adversary who ran the U.S.S.R. So, it was both. V.P. didn't exclusively create the fear of the U.S.S.R.. Instead, he exploited what was already there by adding a so-called spiritual aspect into the mix..

[T-Bone]

3 hours ago, waysider said:

Yes. There was a huge push around the time of the bicentennial. (1975) Supposedly, the communists were plotting to invade us. In FellowLaborers, we had an emergency meeting where we physically destroyed the mimeograph  plates used for the state newsletter (so the enemy couldn't get hold of them and know our identities). We built a root cellar in the side of the hill behind the Ohio BRC. to store food stuffs. We had our own rather large garden plot where we raised vegetables for the groups' consumption. There was a lot of other similar activity. Wierwille had supposedly gotten revelation that something big was about to happen. Of course, the real truth was that Wierwille was reacting to information he was getting directly from extremist groups, such as Liberty Lobby and the John Birch Society. Ultimately, our collective believing was effective enough to stave off the evil hoards.  (Does that remind you of anyone?... Hint: the Seekers)

 

1 hour ago, waysider said:

This atmosphere of fear was quite prevalent at that time. As you indicated, it was not exclusive to The Way. Maybe that made it easier to accept. I don't know. It was a one-step-removed kind of thing. The U.S.S.R was out to get us ...and it was the adversary who ran the U.S.S.R. So, it was both. V.P. didn't exclusively create the fear of the U.S.S.R.. Instead, he exploited what was already there by adding a so-called spiritual aspect into the mix..

Great posts, Waysider !

wierwille was an opportunist (among other things  ) – and was prone to exploit circumstances for his own benefit – in the context of that time, the cold war was the prevalent political atmosphere (the cold war was approximately from 1947 up to 1991…we were WOWs in bicentennial year (1975) – and got such fat heads from wierwille saying we saved the country from being overthrown    !

wasn't wierwille great at blowing "holy" smoke up your a$$

fast forward a few years - remember the movie "Red Dawn"  it came out in 1984 and when we were corps Lightbearers in Chicago in ‘85 I think it was someone local who was corps, had Red Dawn on VHS and played it for us to psyche us up for outreach.

oddly enough I kinda understand where wierwille may have been coming from – if I put myself in the shoes of a cult leader (yikes - now i have stink-foot !). Sometimes war can stimulate the economy (World War II is often credited with bringing our country out of The Great Depression), and fear (whether grounded or not) can stimulate a buying frenzy for essential goods – and even nowadays you can bet a lot of preppers are always ready for World War III…and when you’re talking fear -  I think wierwille wrote the book on fear…

…well…probably plagiarized most of it  ….all kidding aside, though he may have been incompetent academic-wise – but he most definitely was street-smart in how to manipulate folks by fear! So he used the fear of the cold war escalating to sell folks on the urgency of the times – and to motivate people to up their involvement (translation: “now more than ever, we need more of your time, money and resources”) .

 

If you consult the anals of history (that’s a$$holes with a wierwille-centric point of view) you will find it’s always been the prayers…the commitment…the stand of WOWs, Corps, Fellow Laborers, and name-whatever-program-du-jour you want, that have saved our country from takeovers by communists, wrong-seed bunch, Illuminati…..ya know…things would have worked out a whole lot better if I had just heeded Jesus’ words in Matthew 7 – I could have avoided my life being taken over by a cult leader for 12 years.  

Edited July 14, 2017 by T-Bone
clarity