Senior Citizen Servitude

[Rocky]

And again, your opening post seems to want to address TODAY. The posts here of mainly of YESTERDAY.

History is always rewritten. Followers of The Way read The Bible, which is ever-changing, and talk of Wierwille, who exists only in people's minds.

The retirement subject involves generations people in and out of twi. To say twi "kicks people to the curb", to point at leadership, is a lazy cop-out. All organizations do that.

Retirement was talked about. Sometimes by leadership. Mostly by the rank and file PFAL grad - who were a step above the rest of us.

The follower of the The Way will follow their reality . . . and take whoever they can down with them.

But skyrider, do you propose any ideas on how to deal with retiring wayfers? Or are we just here to mock?

Are you suggesting TWI is not worthy of mocking these days?

[skyrider]

And again, your opening post seems to want to address TODAY. The posts here of mainly of YESTERDAY.

My opening post asks six questions. This IS a discussion forum is it not?

History is always rewritten. Followers of The Way read The Bible, which is ever-changing, and talk of Wierwille, who exists only in people's minds.

Life IS ever-changing. Hence, the questions of the first post.

The retirement subject involves generations people in and out of twi. To say twi "kicks people to the curb", to point at leadership, is a lazy cop-out. All organizations do that.

This thread was not started to address the retirement aspect, but SERVING ASPECT as someone on the field ages.

Retirement was talked about. Sometimes by leadership. Mostly by the rank and file PFAL grad - who were a step above the rest of us.

You seem to want to make this a retirement thread.

The follower of the The Way will follow their reality . . . and take whoever they can down with them.

Doesn't everyone "follow their reality?"

But skyrider, do you propose any ideas on how to deal with retiring wayfers? Or are we just here to mock?

Yes, I agreed with Doglover on some ideas. Go back and reread the context.

[Bolshevik]

Are you suggesting TWI is not worthy of mocking these days?

Mocking TWI is ultimately mocking The United States as a whole. Another discussion.

Defining what TWI is . . . most here leave to relative few people to blame . . . another discussion . . . you wouldn't like it.

[waysider]

Mocking TWI is ultimately mocking The United States as a whole. Another discussion.

Defining what TWI is . . . most here leave to relative few people to blame . . . another discussion . . . you wouldn't like it.

Sooooo........Start those discussions. See how it goes. It wouldn't be the first time someone doesn't "like it".

edit: on a new thread/s, of course.

Edited December 5, 2014 by waysider

[Bolshevik]

Sooooo........Start those discussions. See how it goes. It wouldn't be the first time someone doesn't "like it".

What to do with old Wayfer is an actual problem people face. Is it not?

And those other discussions I have other websites for.

[waysider]

I didn't say it wasn't a problem. What I said was if you want to discuss this: "Mocking TWI is ultimately mocking The United States as a whole." or this: "Defining what TWI is . . . most here leave to relative few people to blame.", start a relevant thread or threads and see what happens.

edit: I just saw this: "And those other discussions I have other websites for."

So then why are you bringing it here instead of there?

Edited December 5, 2014 by waysider

[Bolshevik]

Who cares? You guys are silly.

Skyrider,

I'd like it if you clarified you point on on "serving aspect as someone on the field ages"

[waysider]

Who cares? You guys are silly.

Apparently you must care or you wouldn't have brought it up.

[Bolshevik]

Apparently you must care or you wouldn't have brought it up.

I'm not sure what this part is about . . . I thought I was responding to some asides . . . If it's another thread worthy have a go. I find this site in particular difficult.

Yes, I care about what's coming down the road. Very much so. TWI was not a choice.

[skyrider]

Skyrider,

I'd like it if you clarified you point on on "serving aspect as someone on the field ages"

My Original Post on this thread

As more and more twi-followers reach the mid-60s age bracket, will they stay faithful to twi?

.....will they continue to go out witnessing at the nearest malls?

.....will these senior folk give 10-15% of their monthly income to twi?

.....will these long-standing followers go to fellowship 3X a week?

Twi has always been fixated on groupthink....and moving as a group.

Will rosie and co. be willing to cut them some slack in their golden years?

Or.....will local corps leaders continue to be hard-hearted and drive them away?

Yes, many churches are having the same challenges.

But....I tend to think that twi doesn't mind driving old folks away.

Perhaps.....I'm wrong on this.

[waysider]

Had you posed these questions 30-35 years ago, I could have answered, without reservation and based on first hand experience that The Way was absolutely willing to trim, as they called it, "deadwood" in order to generate a more profitable following. I saw it myself. Now, however, I'm not privy to their current business plan and can only guess. That's where people like Bolshevik, who have close ties to the organization, come into the discussion. I, for one, would genuinely like to hear his honest take on some of these matters but without unnecessary rhetoric.

[Bolshevik]

My Original Post on this thread

As more and more twi-followers reach the mid-60s age bracket, will they stay faithful to twi?

probably, as long as they have breathe

.....will they continue to go out witnessing at the nearest malls?

no, they may go to farther out malls

.....will these senior folk give 10-15% of their monthly income to twi?

usually 20%

.....will these long-standing followers go to fellowship 3X a week?

it the weather permits?

Twi has always been fixated on groupthink....and moving as a group.

Will rosie and co. be willing to cut them some slack in their golden years?

Last I checked nobody is tied to a post.

Or.....will local corps leaders continue to be hard-hearted and drive them away?

some people refuse to leave

Yes, many churches are having the same challenges.

this is relevant?

But....I tend to think that twi doesn't mind driving old folks away.

Perhaps.....I'm wrong on this.

They ever claim any different?

A little sarcasm back at you.

Now, what concern are those folks to you? How are you planning to deal with them?

[Bolshevik]

Had you posed these questions 30-35 years ago, I could have answered, without reservation and based on first hand experience that The Way was absolutely willing to trim, as they called it, "deadwood" in order to generate a more profitable following. I saw it myself. Now, however, I'm not privy to their current business plan and can only guess. That's where people like Bolshevik, who have close ties to the organization, come into the discussion. I, for one, would genuinely like to hear his honest take on some of these matters but without unnecessary rhetoric.

My honest take is I'd like to run-away and never look back.

It can't really be explained here. I've tried pointing out before many have had great input on past matters on this site, but it's a dead horse now. Recycled old thinking, no time for elaborate explanation on everything.

Best I see, The Way is groups of families of all ages. Webs of connected outies and innies. The opening post I find insensitive, possibly offensive.

[waysider]

Thanks for your response, Mr. B. That what I was looking for.

[skyrider]

A little sarcasm back at you.

Now, what concern are those folks to you? How are you planning to deal with them?

Well......seeing as this thread, regarding older twi-folk are more than likely lumped into

the same micro-managed schedules of what it means to be "committed and prevailing".....

I will happily answer that question.

My concern is for the health and spiritual wellbeing of many friends of years gone by.

See....that's the thing about genuine concern and its counterfeit [applied by trustees and

arrogant narcissists]. Genuine compassion looks at the individual and ministers accordingly.

Twi's bullying, manipulation and micromanagement are on the dark side of the spectrum.

To this day, my wife and I still have MANY COUPLES IN TWI that are near and dear to heart.

Having lived in six different states and all, we've crossed paths with plenty of good folk.

Just because we've moved on and count our blessings, doesn't mean that we mark/avoid our love

for them.....only cold hearted manipulation devised a skewing of the mark/avoid biblical truth.

Guess I never considered the essence of friendships tied strictly to involvement with twi or not.

Just because someone tosses aside the legalism of the Pharisees [ie--Apostle Paul]

doesn't mean that he didn't cease to reach, teach and pray for those caught in

the snares of seducing and deceiving doctrines of men.

[skyrider]

The opening post I find insensitive, possibly offensive.

Would you like to elaborate on this claim?

By individual and personal confirmation, this website has helped countless numbers

of people who needed answers.

I stand firm on my conviction for freedom of speech and expression.

If asking questions [in my first post] is offensive to someone,

then am I supposed to refrain from questions?

[Bolshevik]

Would you like to elaborate on this claim?

By individual and personal confirmation, this website has helped countless numbers

of people who needed answers.

I stand firm on my conviction for freedom of speech and expression.

If asking questions [in my first post] is offensive to someone,

then am I supposed to refrain from questions?

Sure this website has helped a lot of people, in different ways. Certain groups favored more than others, of course. Unintended harm as well. I believe this site started for one purpose and kind of branched from there, no?

That's great you stand firm on your convictions. Enjoy your freedom.

I thought I elaborated clear enough. Those in twi in their mid 60s and 70s are people's mothers and fathers, and you're free to talk about them, and ask hypothetical or rhetorical questions.

These questions bring up more questions. I will refrain from asking them here.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 12/5/2014 at 11:27 AM, Bolshevik said:

I'm not sure what this part is about . . . I thought I was responding to some asides . . . If it's another thread worthy have a go. I find this site in particular difficult.

Yes, I care about what's coming down the road. Very much so. TWI was not a choice.

Bol, TWI was a choice for me; I choose to get involved; and then I choose to get out.  

[Bolshevik]

On 6/24/2017 at 6:32 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, TWI was a choice for me; I choose to get involved; and then I choose to get out.  

Most accounts here don't show much decision process in getting involved or out really.  My understanding is groups like TWI were a product of the times.  You don't have much choice in that.

 

 

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

3 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Most accounts here don't show much decision process in getting involved or out really.  My understanding is groups like TWI were a product of the times.  You don't have much choice in that.

 

 

 

Bol, I can only speak for myself.  I was 21, when got involved in TWI.  No one forced me to take the class; I was eager to take it.  I finished the class in July of 1978, and in August, I went  WOW.  My WOW year sucked; after the rent, and other bills were paid, I had very little money left.  Often times, I didn't have enough money to buy food; if you didn't have money for food, you starved!!  No one held a gun to my head; I could have left the field; many WOWs did.  I think adults had choices to stay, or leave TWI; again no one held a gun to our heads to make us stay.  Kids were different; they had to stay with their parents.  They didn't have any say in the matter.  Some people stayed in TWI, because they were married, had kids, and earned a paycheck from TWI.  But, that did not apply to me; I was not married, did not have kids, and did not have a job with TWI.  If I had been smart, I would have left TWI, long before I did.  It was my choice to stay; it was my choice to leave.  Perhaps you didn't have a choice if you stayed, or left, but many of us did.  I was responsible for my behavior then, and I am responsible for my behavior now.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 12/5/2014 at 10:31 AM, Bolshevik said:

What to do with old Wayfer is an actual problem people face. Is it not?

And those other discussions I have other websites for.

Bol, what happens to people in TWI when they retire?? I thought they were kicked out. Would you please let me know the websites you are referring too??

[Bolshevik]

2 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, what happens to people in TWI when they retire?? I thought they were kicked out. Would you please let me know the websites you are referring too??

The teaching used to be to make the next generation responsible for them.  That's what TWI says the Bible says.  Take responsibility.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 12/5/2014 at 11:27 AM, Bolshevik said:

I'm not sure what this part is about . . . I thought I was responding to some asides . . . If it's another thread worthy have a go. I find this site in particular difficult.

Yes, I care about what's coming down the road. Very much so. TWI was not a choice.

Bol, you said that TWI wasn't a choice for you, why??  Unless, that is something you would rather not share.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

2 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

The teaching used to be to make the next generation responsible for them.  That's what TWI says the Bible says.  Take responsibility.  

Bol, I don't remember TWI teaching that, but I left in 1988.  Perhaps that was taught after I left.  I know the Navy taught me to be responsible for my actions.  I hated my time in the Navy, 1985-1990, but I did learn a lot while I was in. "I am responsible for my actions.''. 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 11/7/2014 at 1:01 PM, WordWolf said:

They might say nothing, and just enjoy their golden parachutes.

Remember, to ask questions in twi ABOUT twi risks social punishments and possible expulsion.

WW true, but Lincoln freed the slaves!!  I am glad that I left TWI decades ago, I think it is being run by a lot of dirtbags.