People have been proving that our service given our gifts given are always only a drop in the bucket compared to all that we have been given, from every breath we take, just everything is by God's hand of kindness to us.
The problem with twi teaching foundationally, (1) keeping everything on a 5-senses level and (2) that we were the ones who determined whether God and His promises were true.
I know it's deeper than that, but the more tightly I have found myself bound to the Lord, the less "stuff" I have and the more His loving kindness means everything to me. I am in a run down mobile home in the outskirts of Reno on rented property (rent goes up again this month). The most precious thing in the world to me is knowing that the Lord cares for me. That's it.
Our lives and the balance of the Righteous Judge will be weighed when we meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with Him. At that time the rewards will be given (or not). Nothing this side of heaven's door can be weighed in eternal balance scale.
(e.g. the beheaded children in Iran, James Foley, Daniel Pearl, Steven Sotloff slaughtered)
Fred fixed cars for friends. . . Mother Teresa and her bunch did and do all they can to relieve suffering and misery of people without hope in the world. Millions of missionaries have gone out over the world to give God's kindness into the lives of people who do not know He cares for them. Catholic Charities and others build schools, orphanages, hospitals, building wells providing water, giving cows and goats and sewing machines and other things families to people provide a lifefor themselves, as well as churches and music and loving kindness of the brethren gathered together. So many many people through the years have all done what we could, I think. And many have been and are daily being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and killed for their efforts. Reading the stories of persecuted Christians (persecution.com and Voice of the Martyrs, for example), is striking that people are willing rather to suffer than to deny the Lord.
To me it is pitiful that Americans we are so shallow in our devotion.
All these things will be weighed in the balance when we meet the Lord. I certainly don't know how my life will be weighed when I meet the Lord in the air, but I certainly hope and do all I know so that He might say, "Well done," although I certainly cannot imagine such a thing looking at the visible poverty of my life, despite my efforts.
Basically, to me, it's not a question of "outgiving God," any more than I could give but rather only repay to my parents who gave me life and a start in this world.
so my 82 year old mom still tells me she will get to heaven and st. peter ushers her right in and she asks him what! don't i have to go to purgatory first and suffer for all of my sins? and he says where do you think you just came from?
Bliss, it is sad that the staff at HQ so abused your family member and had so little respect for him as to take and squander his loving service for them. I perceive that that was his motivation...
There is much more to "giving to God" than giving money or things. We should be giving in loving kindness, generosity of heart, and reliance upon God (to name but a few) and, as others say, we will get those things back in abundance.
There were some awesomely wonderfully giving, generous, genuinely helpful and caring, people at and associated with HQ. Mostly they were people at lower levels, people who came in for SNS or events, and such like.
Those higher up the leadership ladder began to expect what was given in good heart, as their right to demand. They themselves didn't know how to give - nor how to receive. Don't know how to give physically, don't know how to give "heartily" - hence all the "loving" tongue-lashings and vilification and excommunication of those who didn't adhere to the party line. Those are the ones who blamed the victim for mishaps, for illness, for undesirable things happening in life. Unfortunately this attitude did permeate to some of the lower levels. It's an attitude that leads to abuse and "taking advantage" and overlording. It is also not confined simply to TWI.
The way in which giving and receiving was taught in TWI was, like so much else, too shallow, too materialistic. It's not simply a question of putting a dollar in the box and expecting ten dollars to materialise in your pocket (that would be trying to buy or bribe God!), any more than expecting instant results with anything else. Sure, there are instant healings and instant other responses to prayer recorded in the Bible; and sometimes things took longer. As those who pray for anything in our day and time also find. Sometimes the answers to prayers (or the response to actions) comes years later...maybe not even in one's own lifetime.
If your family member looks back on that time, he may well find that he has learned some things that stand him in good stead now...not just about money, but about hypocrisy, honesty, and giving in general. And about not listening solely to what church leaders say about God, but in building his own relationship with Him (even if he did walk away thinking it was all "hooey"). I hope it hasn't put him off being a giving person and he hasn't become a greedy b*******.
EXCIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your posts or responses always make me smile,laugh or cry. I hope you are well and good. I love that -we are in purgatory now. lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kit- bless you. So so so true.
Twinky- He WAS a very giving man in spite of it all.
Just thought I'd share some past wacky experiences and disproved Way teaching doctrines.
Just thought I'd share some past wacky experiences and disproved Way teaching doctrines.
The teachings were not wrong. When they were first taught whether by JE Stiles, EW Kenyon, Bishop Pillai, Billy Graham, Norman Vincent Peale, Oral Roberts -- those from whom he stole their words -- which were given by men of integrity and relationship with Holy Spirit, Who supplies the power for living properly by them. vp was a hypocrite a liar, and a thief who stole those teachings, but when he stole them he did not have the power of the Holy Spirit they require. One cannot live a life of holiness or even understand what such a life is all about outside of the Holy Spirit's comfort and guidance and strength and wisdom etc. etc.
Today the same words of the Holy Spirit are continued to be taught and brought into the earth by such as many many men and women -- Perry Stone, Michael Brown, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Reinhard Bonnke, and Billy Graham still -- multitudes of people who bring the knowledge of God's loving kindness into the earth and teach people how to live in relationship with Him. Many of the "words" were good, but the context was all wrong. And the life blood of Jesus did not flood them.
Kit- I will lovingly disagree with you on some of the past teachings validity of truth and who the Holy Spirit is talking to today. I'm finding some on the list you named give me shuddering bad vibes.
Kit- I will lovingly disagree with you on some of the past teachings validity of truth and who the Holy Spirit is talking to today. I'm finding some on the list you named give me shuddering bad vibes.
Maybe it's just me.
But, you are right, Vic was a theif....
"You can't out give God" was just the schtick of a con man squeezing all the money he could from hard working believers.
Kit, indeed from a spiritual perspective, there may be some good in it for those not looking for material abundance.
Anyway, my family member who was in the earlier Corps days, decided to PROVE this statement IN REAL TANGIBLE WAYS.
So, him and his buddy who fixed cars for HQ , decided that they were going to start GIVING FREE auto repair service to ''the Household" during a period of about 3 months.
They gave their time, expertise and supplies (money) repeadedly to anyone who needed their car fixed.
Needless to say, they couldn't pay their bills anymore, and not once did "God" bless them back with money falling out of the sky or free tools or food on the table.
They were very disappointed. The confusion that set in only made them look inward as if something was wrong with their believing along with it
i would like to humbly mention that this beautiful soul relative of yours might be (and hopefully please dear god) in for a glorious phenomenal awakening in the future. also, please tell them how touched i am for their kindness.
we were told a lot of untrue things. in my own case, wierwille told me how much it would mean to god if i healed his little d-i-c-k - you get my gist
i would like to humbly mention that this beautiful soul relative of yours might be (and hopefully please dear god) in for a glorious phenomenal awakening in the future. also, please tell them how touched i am for their kindness.
we were told a lot of untrue things. in my own case, wierwille told me how much it would mean to god if i healed his little d-i-c-k - you get my gist
oh my Excie! Well, sadly he passed away 3 years ago. Thank you for your kind heart. Very giving man with no strings attatched. He actually left the W A Y over a decade ago but did maintain a lot of the beliefs... He on numerous times in the Corps caught nimbus #2 in sexual indiscretion. Later as he recalls the episodes , He would say '' who was I gonna tell?". So he didn't. That is what spiritual abuse does. Keeps you from standing up for what is right because the cost is high, usually by your own finger pointing.
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Kit Sober
People have been proving that our service given our gifts given are always only a drop in the bucket compared to all that we have been given, from every breath we take, just everything is by God's hand of kindness to us.
The problem with twi teaching foundationally, (1) keeping everything on a 5-senses level and (2) that we were the ones who determined whether God and His promises were true.
I know it's deeper than that, but the more tightly I have found myself bound to the Lord, the less "stuff" I have and the more His loving kindness means everything to me. I am in a run down mobile home in the outskirts of Reno on rented property (rent goes up again this month). The most precious thing in the world to me is knowing that the Lord cares for me. That's it.
Our lives and the balance of the Righteous Judge will be weighed when we meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with Him. At that time the rewards will be given (or not). Nothing this side of heaven's door can be weighed in eternal balance scale.
(e.g. the beheaded children in Iran, James Foley, Daniel Pearl, Steven Sotloff slaughtered)
Fred fixed cars for friends. . . Mother Teresa and her bunch did and do all they can to relieve suffering and misery of people without hope in the world. Millions of missionaries have gone out over the world to give God's kindness into the lives of people who do not know He cares for them. Catholic Charities and others build schools, orphanages, hospitals, building wells providing water, giving cows and goats and sewing machines and other things families to people provide a lifefor themselves, as well as churches and music and loving kindness of the brethren gathered together. So many many people through the years have all done what we could, I think. And many have been and are daily being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and killed for their efforts. Reading the stories of persecuted Christians (persecution.com and Voice of the Martyrs, for example), is striking that people are willing rather to suffer than to deny the Lord.
To me it is pitiful that Americans we are so shallow in our devotion.
All these things will be weighed in the balance when we meet the Lord. I certainly don't know how my life will be weighed when I meet the Lord in the air, but I certainly hope and do all I know so that He might say, "Well done," although I certainly cannot imagine such a thing looking at the visible poverty of my life, despite my efforts.
Basically, to me, it's not a question of "outgiving God," any more than I could give but rather only repay to my parents who gave me life and a start in this world.
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excathedra
bliss! it is so good to see you and you dear kit
so my 82 year old mom still tells me she will get to heaven and st. peter ushers her right in and she asks him what! don't i have to go to purgatory first and suffer for all of my sins? and he says where do you think you just came from?
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Twinky
Bliss, it is sad that the staff at HQ so abused your family member and had so little respect for him as to take and squander his loving service for them. I perceive that that was his motivation...
There is much more to "giving to God" than giving money or things. We should be giving in loving kindness, generosity of heart, and reliance upon God (to name but a few) and, as others say, we will get those things back in abundance.
There were some awesomely wonderfully giving, generous, genuinely helpful and caring, people at and associated with HQ. Mostly they were people at lower levels, people who came in for SNS or events, and such like.
Those higher up the leadership ladder began to expect what was given in good heart, as their right to demand. They themselves didn't know how to give - nor how to receive. Don't know how to give physically, don't know how to give "heartily" - hence all the "loving" tongue-lashings and vilification and excommunication of those who didn't adhere to the party line. Those are the ones who blamed the victim for mishaps, for illness, for undesirable things happening in life. Unfortunately this attitude did permeate to some of the lower levels. It's an attitude that leads to abuse and "taking advantage" and overlording. It is also not confined simply to TWI.
The way in which giving and receiving was taught in TWI was, like so much else, too shallow, too materialistic. It's not simply a question of putting a dollar in the box and expecting ten dollars to materialise in your pocket (that would be trying to buy or bribe God!), any more than expecting instant results with anything else. Sure, there are instant healings and instant other responses to prayer recorded in the Bible; and sometimes things took longer. As those who pray for anything in our day and time also find. Sometimes the answers to prayers (or the response to actions) comes years later...maybe not even in one's own lifetime.
If your family member looks back on that time, he may well find that he has learned some things that stand him in good stead now...not just about money, but about hypocrisy, honesty, and giving in general. And about not listening solely to what church leaders say about God, but in building his own relationship with Him (even if he did walk away thinking it was all "hooey"). I hope it hasn't put him off being a giving person and he hasn't become a greedy b*******.
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excathedra
i'll sing this when i meet my savior
i'm joking really it's for your guys
my savior is so tired of hearing very me i can't tell him anything new
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excathedra
ps. your post broke my heart - something i've learned to live with for a long time. i love you. i'm sorry.
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bliss
EXCIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your posts or responses always make me smile,laugh or cry. I hope you are well and good. I love that -we are in purgatory now. lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kit- bless you. So so so true.
Twinky- He WAS a very giving man in spite of it all.
Just thought I'd share some past wacky experiences and disproved Way teaching doctrines.
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excathedra
oh my sweet little darling bliss i love you so much
this song below helped me when i was a young teen
i wish i had answers but believe it or not i think a day is coming with answers
that's just me the old blind faith gal
you are a beautiful soul
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Kit Sober
The teachings were not wrong. When they were first taught whether by JE Stiles, EW Kenyon, Bishop Pillai, Billy Graham, Norman Vincent Peale, Oral Roberts -- those from whom he stole their words -- which were given by men of integrity and relationship with Holy Spirit, Who supplies the power for living properly by them. vp was a hypocrite a liar, and a thief who stole those teachings, but when he stole them he did not have the power of the Holy Spirit they require. One cannot live a life of holiness or even understand what such a life is all about outside of the Holy Spirit's comfort and guidance and strength and wisdom etc. etc.
Today the same words of the Holy Spirit are continued to be taught and brought into the earth by such as many many men and women -- Perry Stone, Michael Brown, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Reinhard Bonnke, and Billy Graham still -- multitudes of people who bring the knowledge of God's loving kindness into the earth and teach people how to live in relationship with Him. Many of the "words" were good, but the context was all wrong. And the life blood of Jesus did not flood them.
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bliss
Excie- true dat! haha (((mwah)))
Kit- I will lovingly disagree with you on some of the past teachings validity of truth and who the Holy Spirit is talking to today. I'm finding some on the list you named give me shuddering bad vibes.
Maybe it's just me.:)
But, you are right, Vic was a theif....
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Rocky
"You can't out give God" was just the schtick of a con man squeezing all the money he could from hard working believers.
Kit, indeed from a spiritual perspective, there may be some good in it for those not looking for material abundance.
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excathedra
i would like to humbly mention that this beautiful soul relative of yours might be (and hopefully please dear god) in for a glorious phenomenal awakening in the future. also, please tell them how touched i am for their kindness.
we were told a lot of untrue things. in my own case, wierwille told me how much it would mean to god if i healed his little d-i-c-k - you get my gist
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bliss
oh my Excie! Well, sadly he passed away 3 years ago. Thank you for your kind heart. Very giving man with no strings attatched. He actually left the W A Y over a decade ago but did maintain a lot of the beliefs... He on numerous times in the Corps caught nimbus #2 in sexual indiscretion. Later as he recalls the episodes , He would say '' who was I gonna tell?". So he didn't. That is what spiritual abuse does. Keeps you from standing up for what is right because the cost is high, usually by your own finger pointing.
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