Before any verse is quoted from the book of Revelation it is important to see that this book is written with figurative and not literal language. The following is one paragraph from a reference book that I learn from, the Nelson’s Bible Dictionary.
Like its counterparts, the Book of Revelation depicts the end of the present age and the coming of God's future kingdom through symbols, images, and numbers. These symbols include an angel whose legs are pillars of fire, men who ride on horses while smiting the earth with plagues of destruction, and a fiery red dragon with seven heads and ten horns who crouches before a heavenly woman about to deliver a child.
The question is why was the book of Revelation written so vaguely with figurative imagery and not literal language? One reason is that books of the bible then were written in dangerous times under the Roman empire who were persecuting the church of God. A number of apostles may have even been killed, which for no offense is the equivalent of legal murder. This includes the apostle Paul a Roman citizen, who may have been beheaded by Roman authorities. Because of unjust things like this in future years historically we saw the Roman empire abolished, done away with and come to an end. Although an understanding of what many of these figurative symbols represented has been lost a truthful foundation of knowledge can still be understood. God is all powerful and eventually all the deception of the devil, the god of this age will be destroyed and cease to exist with Jesus Christ, who loves all of humanity and who I love reigning as king and Lord of all.
The above is a quote from page 4 of a new article that I have written and posted on the web. Here is the address to the article covering the Greek word used for age. The Greek word for age
I recommend being a student of the apostle Paul and his church epistles first and from this getting a biblical understanding foundation instead of trying to figure out the very figurative and not literal language of the book of Revelation. Perhaps the above will help people with some of his writings.
WordWolf I knew I could count on you to sum it up, lol. Thank you for that account. I KNOW there have been volumes written on the subject, and I am familiar with the Post and Pre tribbers, I'm not familiar with the Mid tribbers, lol. I lean toward the pre-trib I guess. I like to think were are OUT OF HERE, before the crap hits the fan! I know there is SO much taught on this subject, and one really has to take the teachings with a grain of salt, as there is SO much private interpretation in Revelation. But that is why I just wanted a 101 account of the events that happen, because so many people think that once we die we just all go floating around in heaven somewhere (if we are good) and that's that. Or we turn into angels, you know what I mean.
Mark thank you for your answer and web page. I'm really not trying to study revelation at all, i just wanted a 101 account of the events in the order they are supposed to happen. :)
Rottiegrrrl here's some quick references that you may find useful in discovering more about the gathering together and Christ's return. I agree with Mark that studying the church epistles first will help give you a better understanding to the things in the book of Revelation.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Gathering Together
1 Corinthians 15: 51-57 Changed, made incorruptible, immortal
1 Thessalonians 3:13 The Coming of Christ with the saints
2 Thessalonians 2: 8 Destroy the anti-christ with the host (revelation events)
Acts 24: 15 The resurrection of the dead, the just and the unjust
1 Corinthians 15: 24-28 Death destroyed, The Kingdom of God begins
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
NIV
God has delegated all things pertaining to the church for the salvation of mankind under Jesus Christ his Son. We see in the above verses in Adam all die and in Christ all will be made alive. Since we have death for all of humanity, even Jesus Christ, we have in or through Christ all in the future made alive. This order of life after death is Christ first being raised from the dead. Then when He comes those who belong to him or the followers of Jesus Christ being raised from the dead. For an explanation of this see 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Next we see all dominion, authority and power destroyed with Jesus Christ reigning as King or ruler until He has put all, and this includes even his enemies, under his feet or rulership. Then the last enemy to be destroyed is death. In the original Greek the word for destroyed (katargeoo) means "to render idle, unemployed, inoperative, to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish". Death cannot be destroyed by their only being no further death. Death can only be destroyed and put to an end with the addition of a general resurrection. When death is finally destroyed this means no more death for humanity with all being made alive. When Jesus Christ finally reaches his goal of all or everything under His rulership, then Jesus Christ will turn back this authority to God his Father, so that God will or "may be all in all".
Thank you Mark, for the scripture and explanation. Oh man, I don't want to get too heavy into this. Revelation is a very trick book, and I fully believe that no matter how much people THINK they can decipher it, the book won't truly start revealing itself until it's God appointed time. I remember just recently watching this minister on TV sharing that when he was young his pastor was adamant that he had figured out who this passage was about from Revelation 9.
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
He said his pastor said. "I know who these are! These are hippies on motorcycles!" :biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/> I thought that was hysterical, and so did he obviously. That being said, I would like to know who the heck this "false prophet" is
Rev 16:13 (KJV) "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet."
Rev 19:20 (KJV) "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
Rev 20:10 (KJV) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
RottieGrrrl, you show good biblical sense and a good sense of humor. And your doggie may have learned much from you. I will be able to post more biblical information later when I get my business work done. For now you and your doggie.
This is a simplified answer. The two beasts are against God and Jesus Christ. One is a political ruler. The other is a religious leader also called a false prophet. We may have already seen this a number of times historically whether it is when the Roman Catholic church was trying to gain religious political power in what is referred to historically as the dark ages or the Muslim religious sects as they have tried to do the same thing. And we have biblically seen this with the Jewish religion opposing Jesus Christ and using their religious deception to get the apostles killed and other followers of Jesus Christ. Even Paul was involved in this before he became a follower of Jesus Christ. What is obviously wicked and evil is when any religious group combines with a nation and literally uses military force to spread their religion and whenever this results in the death of people from other religions of faith, for example a true follower of Jesus Christ, this should be punished. If not now in this age, then in the future Lake of Fire. To try to spread a religion through military action so that it is dominant is wicked and evil.
Regarding the thousand years from the book of Revelation chapter 20. The god of this world is very proficient at lying and deceit and deceives people many times. He often does this through political leaders who have the power. When Christ rules, him being wise and powerful he will have the devil the equivalent of symbolically chained up in prison so that he and his deceiving spirits cannot spread their lies and deceit during this age or period of time. Then things will improve greatly on earth. There will still be death during this thousand year period, but the common people will live longer and much better. After this thousand year period the devil gets loosed from prison and he and his lying spirits go out to deceive people and nations again. So much so that they convince people to try to murder the followers of the peaceful and loving Jesus Christ. From this they get what they are trying to give and from the scripture Revelation 20:9 indicates possibly massive deaths.
From what I see here, God is simply trying to get people to see the good when following his loving son Jesus Christ in comparison to the bad following the devil and his lying spirits. I do not like lies and deceit and see it all the time. For example, see the below scriptures. To me this is the equivalent of the God of this world bribing political leaders to get them to follow his deceit and deception rather than following the example of Jesus Christ and actually trying to help our fellow man.
Matthew 4:7-10
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'
Whooooa Mark, this is FASCINATING STUFF! Thank you so much for posting this! You should write a book on this subject yourself. No kidding! Isn't it interesting though that when Jesus Christ will rule the world people will still be sinning, and I would guess, there are STILL going to be people that will not accept Him!!!
I also know about the lies and deceit of which you are speaking. It's ringing through loud and clear in every aspect of our lives, and it is especially grievous when us so called "Christians" fall for the deception of the world and are too chicken to stand on The Word, because of the persecution and mockery that goes along with it. Oh, I'll have to read your post over again, I think with my brain I need to reread it a few times before I get the full gist of it.
Waysider, lol you goof. You just can't help being a goof can you? :)
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Jesus Ascends to Heaven
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
New King James Version
Below looks to me like Jesus coming back or returning in the same manner as his ascension into heaven above. I am sure that most people here see this similarly. The very good thing is that when we meet the Lord Jesus in the air, we get to always be with him. If Jesus starts his thousand year earthly kingdom soon thereafter, that we read in Revelation chapter 20 then we get to assist him. Maybe we will be shining shoes or cleaning feet.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Revelation 20:4-10
Satan Bound 1,000 Years
20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Regarding Rev. 20:4-5. This will not literally occur with only people who have been beheaded part of the 1000 year reign of Christ. People die in different ways. And yes some people actually die of old age and during their entire life were truthful witnesses of Jesus Christ. I strongly believe God is just and regardless of how someone literally dies they too can be included in the 1000 year reign. Remember the writing of Paul in 1 Thes. 4:13-18. There it simply says the dead in Christ shall rise first then those who are still alive will also meet the Lord in the Air and both will after this forever be with the Lord. No, this obviously does not mean they will die again.
I confirmed this with three bible commentaries and all three clearly agree that a literal interpretation of Rev. 20:4-5 regarding only those that have been beheaded being part of the 1000 year reign would contradict other more literal verses. What this figurative writing more literally means is that those beheaded or killed for the testimony of Jesus Christ will be given special honor for their work for our savior Jesus Christ. But then anyone that only wants to be part of the 1000 year reign to serve Jesus Christ would not care about special honor. They only want to do this because they love Jesus Christ and stand with him.
Honestly, I think the person who wrote the book of Revelation in such a figurative and not literal manner should have been more of a student of the apostle Paul before he wrote his book. His writing style has literally resulted in many contradictory interpretations of this book. But then as I previously explained, perhaps his imagery writing style was to hide the message from people that he feared persecution from as many of the apostles and prophets were murdered and yes some NOT by literally beheading, but by being stoned, for example Stephen in Acts 7:54-60. Does that mean because Stephen was stoned to death and not beheaded that he too would not be part of the 1000 year reign with Christ, while some poor person from 20th century Africa who was beheaded by a muslim just because they would not publicly renounce their belief in Jesus Christ that he or she would get to be with Christ for the 1000 year period? I am for both being with Christ during the 1000 year Christ kingdom. And even for people who die of old age.
If we want to try to communicate something spiritual that we believe it is best to also quote from scriptures. Then we can compare what a person believes with the scriptures that are part of the learning process.
1 Corinthians chapter 15 is a chapter I recommend the study of. It indicates the first resurrection is Jesus Christ himself. Then the next resurrection is those who are his faithful believers. We see this in 1 Thes. 4:13-18. I believe in Acts this is called the resurrection of the just. Later we have the resurrection of the unjust.
Here is 1 Corinthians chapter 15 which shows an order to the resurrections. In verse 22 it says all die and all shall be made alive, but each one in his own order. Jesus Christ resurrected and afterward those who are Christ's at his coming. Then the end comes which looks like the second resurrection or resurrection of the unjust. More scriptures quoted would be helpful, but this is a good start.
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
I was thinking today about the Old Testament believers, for example Moses, Daniel, Isaiah and others. When would they be resurrected from the dead to be with Jesus Christ? Would this be with the followers of Jesus Christ like we have today and have had since the writings of the Apostle Paul? Or would this be at another time or age? Then I found some very fundamentally written comments on the internet. This is something we have learned also. The new one body of Christ combining Jews and Gentiles. There is no separation now between Jew and Gentile. All are one in Christ Jesus and a number of scriptures verify this. Because of this unless we see a clearly written scripture telling us about an additional resurrection for the Old Testament saints, they could and would be in the same resurrection as the apostles and faithful believers today. The only clearly written scriptures on believers getting raised from the dead to live with Christ that I see now are 1 Thes. 4:13-18 and 1 Corin. Chapter 15. And in verse 55, we even read Paul partially quoting from the Old Testament. Hosea 13:14. If you see any other scriptures describing another resurrection other than of course the resurrection of the unjust, then post the scriptures or at least the chapter and verse.
1 Corinthians 15:50-57 New King James Version (NKJV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
And here we see scriptures pertaining to the one body combining Jew and Gentile.
Ephesians 3:1-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
Romans 11:25-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[a] as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 2:11-22 New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Here we have the same word for church that is used in the church epistles and here it is directed to the Jewish people.
Matthew 18:15-18 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:11New King James Version (NKJV)
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew 24 looks like it could be a good chapter of the bible to study on this subject. Also this looks like in harmony with scriptures that we have studied from 1 Thes. 4:13-18 and 1 Corin. 15:50-57. The same Greek word for trump or trumpet is used in all three books. Here are the three usages of trump or trumpet with the same Greek word, Matthew 24:31, 1 Corin. 15:52, 1 Thes. 4:16. It looks like describing the same one time resurrection event.
15: 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[a]
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Matthew 24 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
No One Knows the Day or Hour
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant
45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[g] 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I have a full work day starting now and I will not be able to post again until tonight.
Recommended Posts
WordWolf
There's been entire books on the subject!
I can get back to this later,
but here's a really short answer.
There's a variety of opinions on the subject.
Most germane to what you're asking are Pre-Tribbers, Mid-Tribbers, and Post-Tribbers.
Pre-Tribbers say the Christians leave before The Tribulation begins.
(Some say that's what starts the clock for The Trib.)
They say the vanishings of people all over the world is major news,
for a few days, maybe a week or so.
Then a political leader steps up and grabs all the headlines.
("The Antichrist", "the man of sins", "The Beast".)
He works out some political stuff with Israel (the politics never interested me),
then seems to keep his deal-for a time.
People hail the arrival of peace, at last.
People put their trust in him, and a one-world religion and a
one-world government begin being set up.
Then comes The Tribulation.
All sorts of "natural disasters" happen, and "the day of wrath".
(Revelation 6.)
Then comes the mandatory registrations:
People are required to have the ID implant of "the antichrist" in/on
their skin. It's required for any commerce, and it is illegal to refuse it.
The 2nd half of "the Tribulation" is "the Great Tribulation."
Dissenters who refuse will be slaughtered. Strange things will happen that
strain credulity that there are natural explanations to it all.
Many deaths will happen.
Mid-Tribbers believe Christians will vanish at the beginning of "the Great
Tribulation".
At the end of Revelation 19, Jesus returns to Earth leading an immense strike force.
Who's in it? Angels, and any Christians who vanished previously.
(Post-Tribbers believe that there won't be any vanishing- the surviving Christians
will all be on the ground when Jesus arrives.)
There is a tremendous fight.
A few heavies are imprisoned for 1000 years.
Revelation 20 opens. There is a great judgement on the Earth-
Jesus' faithful who were not judged before are judged now, and they all get a
passing grade or better.
1000 years of paradise pass.
Then the last push of demonic/devilish forces happens.
Naturally, it's foredoomed to failure.
Obliteration or eternal imprisonment for the top bad guy of the universe,
and for his top agents ("the beast", "the false prophet".)
Then the end of Revelation 20 happens.
The rest of humanity is judged- by their works, and Jesus is the
Chief Justice, with his people handling judgement under him.
Some people make it, some do not.
Those who do not either die or are imprisoned forever, depending on who
you ask.
Then it's a whole new ballgame.
For this subject, that's a really short answer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
Before any verse is quoted from the book of Revelation it is important to see that this book is written with figurative and not literal language. The following is one paragraph from a reference book that I learn from, the Nelson’s Bible Dictionary.
Like its counterparts, the Book of Revelation depicts the end of the present age and the coming of God's future kingdom through symbols, images, and numbers. These symbols include an angel whose legs are pillars of fire, men who ride on horses while smiting the earth with plagues of destruction, and a fiery red dragon with seven heads and ten horns who crouches before a heavenly woman about to deliver a child.
Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright ©1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers
The question is why was the book of Revelation written so vaguely with figurative imagery and not literal language? One reason is that books of the bible then were written in dangerous times under the Roman empire who were persecuting the church of God. A number of apostles may have even been killed, which for no offense is the equivalent of legal murder. This includes the apostle Paul a Roman citizen, who may have been beheaded by Roman authorities. Because of unjust things like this in future years historically we saw the Roman empire abolished, done away with and come to an end. Although an understanding of what many of these figurative symbols represented has been lost a truthful foundation of knowledge can still be understood. God is all powerful and eventually all the deception of the devil, the god of this age will be destroyed and cease to exist with Jesus Christ, who loves all of humanity and who I love reigning as king and Lord of all.
The above is a quote from page 4 of a new article that I have written and posted on the web. Here is the address to the article covering the Greek word used for age. The Greek word for age
I recommend being a student of the apostle Paul and his church epistles first and from this getting a biblical understanding foundation instead of trying to figure out the very figurative and not literal language of the book of Revelation. Perhaps the above will help people with some of his writings.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
WordWolf I knew I could count on you to sum it up, lol. Thank you for that account. I KNOW there have been volumes written on the subject, and I am familiar with the Post and Pre tribbers, I'm not familiar with the Mid tribbers, lol. I lean toward the pre-trib I guess. I like to think were are OUT OF HERE, before the crap hits the fan! I know there is SO much taught on this subject, and one really has to take the teachings with a grain of salt, as there is SO much private interpretation in Revelation. But that is why I just wanted a 101 account of the events that happen, because so many people think that once we die we just all go floating around in heaven somewhere (if we are good) and that's that. Or we turn into angels, you know what I mean.
Mark thank you for your answer and web page. I'm really not trying to study revelation at all, i just wanted a 101 account of the events in the order they are supposed to happen. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Human without the bean
Rottiegrrrl here's some quick references that you may find useful in discovering more about the gathering together and Christ's return. I agree with Mark that studying the church epistles first will help give you a better understanding to the things in the book of Revelation.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Gathering Together
1 Corinthians 15: 51-57 Changed, made incorruptible, immortal
1 Thessalonians 3:13 The Coming of Christ with the saints
2 Thessalonians 2: 8 Destroy the anti-christ with the host (revelation events)
Acts 24: 15 The resurrection of the dead, the just and the unjust
1 Corinthians 15: 24-28 Death destroyed, The Kingdom of God begins
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
Bean Thank you for the scripture references!!! That helps a lot! :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
NIV
God has delegated all things pertaining to the church for the salvation of mankind under Jesus Christ his Son. We see in the above verses in Adam all die and in Christ all will be made alive. Since we have death for all of humanity, even Jesus Christ, we have in or through Christ all in the future made alive. This order of life after death is Christ first being raised from the dead. Then when He comes those who belong to him or the followers of Jesus Christ being raised from the dead. For an explanation of this see 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Next we see all dominion, authority and power destroyed with Jesus Christ reigning as King or ruler until He has put all, and this includes even his enemies, under his feet or rulership. Then the last enemy to be destroyed is death. In the original Greek the word for destroyed (katargeoo) means "to render idle, unemployed, inoperative, to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish". Death cannot be destroyed by their only being no further death. Death can only be destroyed and put to an end with the addition of a general resurrection. When death is finally destroyed this means no more death for humanity with all being made alive. When Jesus Christ finally reaches his goal of all or everything under His rulership, then Jesus Christ will turn back this authority to God his Father, so that God will or "may be all in all".
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
Thank you Mark, for the scripture and explanation. Oh man, I don't want to get too heavy into this. Revelation is a very trick book, and I fully believe that no matter how much people THINK they can decipher it, the book won't truly start revealing itself until it's God appointed time. I remember just recently watching this minister on TV sharing that when he was young his pastor was adamant that he had figured out who this passage was about from Revelation 9.
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
He said his pastor said. "I know who these are! These are hippies on motorcycles!" :biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/> I thought that was hysterical, and so did he obviously. That being said, I would like to know who the heck this "false prophet" is
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
RottieGrrrl, you show good biblical sense and a good sense of humor. And your doggie may have learned much from you. I will be able to post more biblical information later when I get my business work done. For now
you and your doggie.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
This is a simplified answer. The two beasts are against God and Jesus Christ. One is a political ruler. The other is a religious leader also called a false prophet. We may have already seen this a number of times historically whether it is when the Roman Catholic church was trying to gain religious political power in what is referred to historically as the dark ages or the Muslim religious sects as they have tried to do the same thing. And we have biblically seen this with the Jewish religion opposing Jesus Christ and using their religious deception to get the apostles killed and other followers of Jesus Christ. Even Paul was involved in this before he became a follower of Jesus Christ. What is obviously wicked and evil is when any religious group combines with a nation and literally uses military force to spread their religion and whenever this results in the death of people from other religions of faith, for example a true follower of Jesus Christ, this should be punished. If not now in this age, then in the future Lake of Fire. To try to spread a religion through military action so that it is dominant is wicked and evil.
Regarding the thousand years from the book of Revelation chapter 20. The god of this world is very proficient at lying and deceit and deceives people many times. He often does this through political leaders who have the power. When Christ rules, him being wise and powerful he will have the devil the equivalent of symbolically chained up in prison so that he and his deceiving spirits cannot spread their lies and deceit during this age or period of time. Then things will improve greatly on earth. There will still be death during this thousand year period, but the common people will live longer and much better. After this thousand year period the devil gets loosed from prison and he and his lying spirits go out to deceive people and nations again. So much so that they convince people to try to murder the followers of the peaceful and loving Jesus Christ. From this they get what they are trying to give and from the scripture Revelation 20:9 indicates possibly massive deaths.
From what I see here, God is simply trying to get people to see the good when following his loving son Jesus Christ in comparison to the bad following the devil and his lying spirits. I do not like lies and deceit and see it all the time. For example, see the below scriptures. To me this is the equivalent of the God of this world bribing political leaders to get them to follow his deceit and deception rather than following the example of Jesus Christ and actually trying to help our fellow man.
Matthew 4:7-10
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'
New International Version (NIV)
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
"The tiny purple fishes run laughing through your fingers,
And you want to take her with you to the hard land of the winter.".....Cream
I wonder if people will assign some sort of *spiritual meaning* to this, 2,000 years from now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
Whooooa Mark, this is FASCINATING STUFF! Thank you so much for posting this! You should write a book on this subject yourself. No kidding! Isn't it interesting though that when Jesus Christ will rule the world people will still be sinning, and I would guess, there are STILL going to be people that will not accept Him!!!
I also know about the lies and deceit of which you are speaking. It's ringing through loud and clear in every aspect of our lives, and it is especially grievous when us so called "Christians" fall for the deception of the world and are too chicken to stand on The Word, because of the persecution and mockery that goes along with it. Oh, I'll have to read your post over again, I think with my brain I need to reread it a few times before I get the full gist of it.
Waysider, lol you goof. You just can't help being a goof can you? :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Well it was one of those kind of thoughts that runs through your head while you're waiting for the toaster to spit out your pop-tarts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
Acts 1:4-11
The Holy Spirit Promised
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Jesus Ascends to Heaven
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
New King James Version
Below looks to me like Jesus coming back or returning in the same manner as his ascension into heaven above. I am sure that most people here see this similarly. The very good thing is that when we meet the Lord Jesus in the air, we get to always be with him. If Jesus starts his thousand year earthly kingdom soon thereafter, that we read in Revelation chapter 20 then we get to assist him. Maybe we will be shining shoes or cleaning feet.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Revelation 20:4-10
Satan Bound 1,000 Years
20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Regarding Rev. 20:4-5. This will not literally occur with only people who have been beheaded part of the 1000 year reign of Christ. People die in different ways. And yes some people actually die of old age and during their entire life were truthful witnesses of Jesus Christ. I strongly believe God is just and regardless of how someone literally dies they too can be included in the 1000 year reign. Remember the writing of Paul in 1 Thes. 4:13-18. There it simply says the dead in Christ shall rise first then those who are still alive will also meet the Lord in the Air and both will after this forever be with the Lord. No, this obviously does not mean they will die again.
I confirmed this with three bible commentaries and all three clearly agree that a literal interpretation of Rev. 20:4-5 regarding only those that have been beheaded being part of the 1000 year reign would contradict other more literal verses. What this figurative writing more literally means is that those beheaded or killed for the testimony of Jesus Christ will be given special honor for their work for our savior Jesus Christ. But then anyone that only wants to be part of the 1000 year reign to serve Jesus Christ would not care about special honor. They only want to do this because they love Jesus Christ and stand with him.
Honestly, I think the person who wrote the book of Revelation in such a figurative and not literal manner should have been more of a student of the apostle Paul before he wrote his book.
His writing style has literally resulted in many contradictory interpretations of this book. But then as I previously explained, perhaps his imagery writing style was to hide the message from people that he feared persecution from as many of the apostles and prophets were murdered and yes some NOT by literally beheading, but by being stoned, for example Stephen in Acts 7:54-60. Does that mean because Stephen was stoned to death and not beheaded that he too would not be part of the 1000 year reign with Christ, while some poor person from 20th century Africa who was beheaded by a muslim just because they would not publicly renounce their belief in Jesus Christ that he or she would get to be with Christ for the 1000 year period? I am for both being with Christ during the 1000 year Christ kingdom. And even for people who die of old age. 
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
As I see it,
those who stand before the Throne Judgement at the First Resurrection
(aka the Resurrection of Life, the Better Resurrection)
are not the Born-Again Christians.
If the Pre-Trib or Mid-Trib position is correct, the Christians have all been gone,
and were judged during the Tribulation events. (Under rather favorable conditions,
even moreso than that of the First Resurrection.) They then return with Jesus
at the end of Revelation 19, and are the ones who sat on thrones- with Jesus and
who judged-with Jesus. (This makes sense if they are "forever with" their Lord
from the moment of their gathering-together-unto-him onward into eternity.)
Those who are judged, therefore, exclude the Born-Again Ones. So, that excludes
Stephen, who was Born Again but who was martyred. It does NOT exclude John the
Baptist (Baptizer), who WAS literally beheaded for the witness of Jesus but who
was not born again. It would include all Old Testament prophets who testified of
Jesus one way or another and were martyred for it. And it would include those who
were martyred for Jesus during the Tribulation. I agree that the specific
mechanism of martyrdom is irrelevant and is figurative here.
I once talked about someone getting back to something as soon as was reasonable
after dealing with something more urgent. Of that total stranger, I said something
like the following:
"They'll deal with that, then come home, decompress, and collapse. They'll sleep for
about 12 hours, get up, shower, have their shredded wheat, THEN they'll take care of
what you're stressing about, with several days to spare."
Naturally, one person missed my point and said it sounded like I knew them very well
since I ran through an itinerary. (Everybody else seemed to get my point.) As a
matter of fact, I generally use the term "shredded wheat" for strangers eating
breakfast-it's a reference to a line in a Marx Brothers movie.
So, someone using "beheading" to refer to all forms of martyrdom makes perfect sense
to me. This wasn't meant as a forensics textbook outlining methods of executions.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
If we want to try to communicate something spiritual that we believe it is best to also quote from scriptures. Then we can compare what a person believes with the scriptures that are part of the learning process.
1 Corinthians chapter 15 is a chapter I recommend the study of. It indicates the first resurrection is Jesus Christ himself. Then the next resurrection is those who are his faithful believers. We see this in 1 Thes. 4:13-18. I believe in Acts this is called the resurrection of the just. Later we have the resurrection of the unjust.
Here is 1 Corinthians chapter 15 which shows an order to the resurrections. In verse 22 it says all die and all shall be made alive, but each one in his own order. Jesus Christ resurrected and afterward those who are Christ's at his coming. Then the end comes which looks like the second resurrection or resurrection of the unjust. More scriptures quoted would be helpful, but this is a good start.
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
I was thinking today about the Old Testament believers, for example Moses, Daniel, Isaiah and others. When would they be resurrected from the dead to be with Jesus Christ? Would this be with the followers of Jesus Christ like we have today and have had since the writings of the Apostle Paul? Or would this be at another time or age? Then I found some very fundamentally written comments on the internet. This is something we have learned also. The new one body of Christ combining Jews and Gentiles. There is no separation now between Jew and Gentile. All are one in Christ Jesus and a number of scriptures verify this. Because of this unless we see a clearly written scripture telling us about an additional resurrection for the Old Testament saints, they could and would be in the same resurrection as the apostles and faithful believers today. The only clearly written scriptures on believers getting raised from the dead to live with Christ that I see now are 1 Thes. 4:13-18 and 1 Corin. Chapter 15. And in verse 55, we even read Paul partially quoting from the Old Testament. Hosea 13:14. If you see any other scriptures describing another resurrection other than of course the resurrection of the unjust, then post the scriptures or at least the chapter and verse.
1 Corinthians 15:50-57 New King James Version (NKJV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
And here we see scriptures pertaining to the one body combining Jew and Gentile.
Ephesians 3:1-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
Romans 11:25-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[a] as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 2:11-22 New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Here we have the same word for church that is used in the church epistles and here it is directed to the Jewish people.
Matthew 18:15-18 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:11New King James Version (NKJV)
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I'll provide both the verses and the rationale I believe there's 3 events-
1 for us, plus 2 Resurrections-
but for those who are convinced there's exactly 2 events
(or less, of course),
whatever I post may be insufficient to change their mind.
Over the years, I've seen reasons to fine-tune what I believe on this,
but not enough to discard what I believe on this.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
Matthew 24 looks like it could be a good chapter of the bible to study on this subject. Also this looks like in harmony with scriptures that we have studied from 1 Thes. 4:13-18 and 1 Corin. 15:50-57. The same Greek word for trump or trumpet is used in all three books. Here are the three usages of trump or trumpet with the same Greek word, Matthew 24:31, 1 Corin. 15:52, 1 Thes. 4:16. It looks like describing the same one time resurrection event.
15: 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[a]
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Matthew 24 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
No One Knows the Day or Hour
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant
45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[g] 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I have a full work day starting now and I will not be able to post again until tonight.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Lortz
Anyone who can cite a Marx Brothers movie in a discussion of Revelation is OKAY in my book!!!
Love,
Steve
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.