Telling Tales

[waysider]

Wierwille sure liked to spin a good yarn...developing the hook shot, inventing fast food, making snow explode, blah, blah, blah. Well, it seems he wasn't alone in that respect. L. Ron Hubbard, of Scientology fame, was known to spin a few whoppers, as well. Consider this one, for example:

...........................................................................

Claims of submarine contact off Cape Lookout[edit]

In the early hours of 19 May 1943, the crew of PC-815 detected what Hubbard thought was first one then later two Imperial Japanese Navy submarines approximately 10 nautical miles (19 km) off the shore of Cape Lookout. Both the SONAR operator and Lt. Hubbard himself thought that the echo of an active sonar ping, combined with apparent engine noises heard through the ship's hydrophone indicated contact with a submarine.[4]

Over the next 68 hours, the ship expended 37 depth charges in a "battle" that also involved the U.S. Navy blimps K-39 and K-33, the United States Coast Guard patrol boats Bonham and 78302, and the subchasers USS SC-536 and USS SC-537, all summoned to act as reinforcements. PC-815 was finally ordered back to base on 21 May.[5]

In his eighteen page after-action report, Hubbard claimed to have "definitely sunk, beyond doubt" one submarine and critically damaged another. However, the subsequent investigation by the Commander NW Sea Frontier, Vice Admiral Frank Jack Fletcher, cast a skeptical light on Hubbard's claims. His summary memorandum to Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, stated:

It is noted that the report of PC 815 is not in accordance with "Anti-Submarine Action by Surface Ship" (ASW-1) which should be submitted to Commander in Chief, U.S. Fleet.[6]

An analysis of all reports convinces me that there was no submarine in the area. Lieutenant Commander Sullivan states that he was unable to obtain any evidence of a submarine except one bubble of air which is unexplained except by turbulence of water due to a depth charge explosion. The Commanding Officers of all ships except the PC-815 state they had no evidence of a submarine and do not think a submarine was in the area.[7]

Fletcher added that "there is a known magnetic deposit in the area in which depth charges were dropped", absolving the responding blimps from any fault as their method of detecting submarines relies on a Magnetic Anomaly Detector. This also implied that Lt. Hubbard and his crew were operating the ship's SONAR equipment incorrectly.[8] After the war, British and American analysis of captured Japanese Navy records confirmed that no Japanese submarines had been lost off the Oregon coast.[9] Hubbard, however, never accepted that he had been mistaken about the "battle." Both he and Tom Moulton, one of his officers, claimed that the official denials of any Japanese submarine presence off the Pacific coast had been motivated by a desire to avoid panic among the U.S. population.[10] Years later, Hubbard told Scientologists:

I dropped the I-76 or the Imperial Japanese Navy Trans-Pacific Submarine down into the mouth of the Columbia River, dead duck. And it went down with a resounding furor. And that was that. I never thought about it again particularly except to get mad at all the admirals I had to make reports to because of this thing, see? This was one out of seventy-nine separate actions that I had to do with. And it had no significance, see?

But the other day I was kind of tired, and my dad suddenly sprung on me the fact that my submarine had been causing a tremendous amount of difficulty in the mouth of the Columbia River. Hadn't thought about this thing for years. Of course, it's all shot to ribbons, this thing. It's got jagged steel sticking out at all ends and angles, and it's a big submarine! It's a — I don't know, about the size of the first Narwhal that we built. And the fishermen coming in there and fishing are dragging their nets around in that area, and it's just tearing their nets to ribbons — they've even hired a civilian contractor to try to blow the thing up and get it the devil out of there — and has evidently been raising bob with postwar fishing here for more years than I'd care to count.[11]

However, the mouth of the Columbia River is some 75 miles north of Cape Lookout, the area in which Hubbard's naval reports claimed his anti-submarine action took place

SOURCE

I guess it must be some kind of cult leader "thing". I don't understand.

Edited July 12, 2014 by waysider

[waysider]

It's interesting how we, as outsiders, can look at Hubbard's story, examine the facts and easily reach a logical conclusion. When it comes to the famous "snow on the gas pump stories" of Wierwille, however, there are some who will always insist on ignoring reality. I'm just sayin'.

Edited July 12, 2014 by waysider

[Twinky]

One month later:

A month later, the PC-815 traveled to San Diego, which was to become her home port. She arrived there on 2 June, and at the end of June was ordered to sea to join an anti-submarine training exercise.^[/url] The exercise, held on 28 June, ended early and Hubbard took the opportunity to order an impromptu gunnery exercise while anchored just off the Mexican territory of South Coronado Island to the south-west of San Diego. The Mexican government sent an official protest to the U.S. Government, as no gunnery operations had been scheduled. On 30 June a Board of Investigation was convened concerning PC-815 which concluded that Hubbard had disregarded orders, both by conducting gunnery practice and by anchoring in Mexican territorial waters without proper authority. His orders stated that the PC-815 was supposed to return after completing that day's training. Hubbard argued that his crew was inexperienced, it was foggy, and he was tired so he did not return to port as ordered. A month earlier in his after action report concerning the recent fiasco off Cape Lookout, he had described the same men as "experienced" and "highly skilled". Vice Admiral Fletcher, who both chaired the board and read the prior after action report, rated Hubbard "below average" and noted: "Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgment, leadership and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable results. He is believed to have been sincere in his efforts to make his ship efficient and ready. Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time. Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised". Hubbard was relieved of command effective 7 July 1943.

The underlings were highly skilled when he wanted them to be - and inexperienced and useless when he didn't want them to be. Sound familiar?

Blatantly disregards orders. Both in the incident Waysider reported, and in the extract above, just a month later. Sound familiar?

Brought to book( and even relieved of his command) - so goes and starts up something he can command - absolutely. Sound familiar?

[krys]

I guess if you don't have a really good truthful story to tell your congregation audience....you have to make something up that you think will grab their attention!

[waysider]

I suppose we should at least give Wierwille some credit for being a world class storyteller.

If only there had been more stories that ended with "They lived happily ever after.".

[WordWolf]

I suppose we should at least give Wierwille some credit for being a world class storyteller.

If only there had been more stories that ended with "They lived happily ever after.".

wierwille was a TRAINED storyteller.

When he went to school, he specialized in HOMILETICS, which, of all the areas of studies

in a Divinity school, is uniquely specialized for MAKING UP STORIES.

(Studying Bible languages, for example, would have been WORK. Small wonder that wasn't

his major.)

[chockfull]

wierwille was a TRAINED storyteller.

When he went to school, he specialized in HOMILETICS, which, of all the areas of studies

in a Divinity school, is uniquely specialized for MAKING UP STORIES.

(Studying Bible languages, for example, would have been WORK. Small wonder that wasn't

his major.)

You mean his major in homiletics for the Pikes Peak Biblical Seminary? Yeah so basically his bi-weekly writing assignments which he needed to mail in focused on that area. Although he didn't "go to school" or "specialize" in the manner you would traditionally think.

[WordWolf]

You mean his major in homiletics for the Pikes Peak Biblical Seminary? Yeah so basically his bi-weekly writing assignments which he needed to mail in focused on that area. Although he didn't "go to school" or "specialize" in the manner you would traditionally think.

His doctorate may have come out of a cracker-jack box,

but he did attend Princeton Theological Seminary for his Masters.

He coasted for a doctorate after that.

AFAIK, he went to a legitimate school for his Masters but chose the

softest option available.

[chockfull]

His doctorate may have come out of a cracker-jack box,

but he did attend Princeton Theological Seminary for his Masters.

He coasted for a doctorate after that.

AFAIK, he went to a legitimate school for his Masters but chose the

softest option available.

The weird thing about it to me is that he received both his Bachelor's degree from Lakeland college and his Masters degree from Princeton Theological Seminary both in 1941. I thought masters degrees took 2 years of study. VP is 24 years old then, and is ordained to the E&R church and starts his first pastorate. Something is fishy there.

[waysider]

On more than one occasion, I contacted both schools, requesting general information on VPW, regarding his academic studies. Both schools declined to provide me with any information.

edit: It's been a while but with one of the schools (I think it was Lakeland), I simply asked to verify his alumni status, as he mentions them in T.W.L.I.L. You wouldn't think it would be much of a violation of privacy to simply ask if someone really graduated from your school. Who knew?

edit#2: One of the schools got "snooty" with me, telling me (I'm paraphrasing.) "It's none of your business."...In a polite manner, of course.

Edited July 13, 2014 by waysider

[krys]

I remember that there was a time when 2 men from twi - - whether still associated with them, or having left the group....I don't remember....but they did contact Princeton some way or other and eventually found themselves in the basement (?) archives and they located his name on a roster...or somehow associated to show that he genuinely did attend there.

You know....Princeton University is not the same thing as Princeton Theological Seminary. The latter is very well known, and I wonder if somebody says "Princeton" if somebody's brain just inserts theological seminary where it doesn't belong. (?)

[WordWolf]

(snip)

You know....Princeton University is not the same thing as Princeton Theological Seminary. The latter is very well known, and I wonder if somebody says "Princeton" if somebody's brain just inserts theological seminary where it doesn't belong. (?)

That's backwards, actually.

While Princeton Theological Seminary is a respected institution (despite vpw attending), in non-theological circles,

it's unknown and Princeton University is a household name. (Despite both being in Princeton, NJ.)

It was common for lcm certainly to say vpw got a Masters from "Princeton" and leave everyone thinking

vpw went to Princeton University and got a Masters Degree from there. I suppose vpw taught him

that one but I never personally heard vpw say it that way.

Then again, we were all told that vpw

"played basketball all through college and was involved with the Sheboygan Redskins."

He was never on a TEAM in college, and never PLAYED for the Sheboygan Redskins. We were all meant

to think that's what he meant- but he phrased the truth deceptively so as to get us to draw

the wrong conclusion because we didn't think vpw would intentionally deceive us.

(He was very successful that way.)

[WordWolf]

The weird thing about it to me is that he received both his Bachelor's degree from Lakeland college and his Masters degree from Princeton Theological Seminary both in 1941. I thought masters degrees took 2 years of study. VP is 24 years old then, and is ordained to the E&R church and starts his first pastorate. Something is fishy there.

I'm sure there's something cagey about his entire education.

We know he plagiarized whenever he could- so it's ridiculous to think he

STARTED that AFTER his education. He ALWAYS cut corners out of laziness and

did the least amount of work to get by and get credit. So, I'm confident he

was much the same man and did exactly that at Princeton Theological,

Lakeland, Pike's Peak, and anywhere else. He certainly did that with Moody...

He claimed he took ALL their correspondence courses, and Moody has no

record of him taking ANY of their courses. So, if he ever took ANY course

of Moody, he never completed it and no record was ever logged as a result.

So, he got the "credit" for Moody ("Respect me-I went to Moody") without

actually doing the work.

[skyrider]

Mrs. W's book......page 30,31,32

On May 29, 1938 Victor received the Bachelor of Arts degree at the Mission House College,

Plymouth, Wisconsin. The following summers of 1938, '39 and '40, Vic attended the

University of Chicago Divinity School while continuing his seminary studies at Mission

House Seminary during the regular fall, winter, and spring school terms. [p.30]

[bottom of page 31].... In June 1940 I left my nursing job in Sheboygan and went back to my

parents' home at New Knoxville to get ready for the birth of our wonderful first child, Don,

which event took place on Sunday, August 11. Vic was in Chicago for summer school. He came

home on short notice when I went into labor and remained with me for a day after Don's birth.

He then went back to Chicago to finish summer school.

Later that August of 1940, all three of us traveled on old U.S. 30 to New Jersey so that Vic

could begin studying for his Master of Theology degree at Princeton Theological Seminary.

He believed he could learn much at Princeton, especially from Dr. Blackwood in practical

theology.

.....[near bottom of page 32] After the memorial service [of Mother Wierwille -- age 66],

we returned to Princeton, where Victor finished his course work and wrote his master's thesis,

"Peter As An Evangelistic Preacher," which completed the requirements for his Master of

Theology degree.

On May 13, 1941, Vic, along with twenty other Princeton seminarians, received that degree.

We returned to New Knoxville for a few days, en route once more to the Mission House College

and Seminary, where Vic formally received his Master of Theology degree which he had

actually completed the work for at the end of the summer of 1940. His diploma is dated

September 1, 1940.

.

Edited July 13, 2014 by skyrider

[skyrider]

Mrs. W's book......page 67

On July 5, 1948, our family of five began a trip in our new 1948 Chevrolet,

given to us by the Wierwille family, to Manitou Springs, Colorado. Rev. Wierwille

had been taking correspondence work with Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College

and writing his doctoral dissertation on "Peter the Preacher." By being in

attendance at the seminary in Colorado, he was completing his requirements for a

Doctor of Theology degree. Students there came from India and China as well as

various parts of the United States.

Along with taking course work, Rev. Wierwille also taught two classes: "Radio

Preaching Techniques" and "Peter the Preacher." On Wednesday, July 28, 1948,

he was awarded the Doctor of Theology degree by Pikes Peak Seminary in a ceremony

at the Community Congregational Church in Manitou Springs.

[waysider]

The B.A and Master of Theology don't "add up".

And what's up with using his Master's Thesis (if he really wrote one) as his Doctoral Dissertation?

It all sounds pretty exaggerated to me.

[skyrider]

And what's up with using his Master's Thesis (if he really wrote one) as his Doctoral Dissertation?

Yeah.....I asked that question a couple years ago.

Could it be that wierwille plagiarized someone's work to inject it in his master's thesis....

then, just cut-n-pasted it with minor additions for his doctoral work?

Surely, wierwille didn't cut every corner in the book as a student, too? :o

[chockfull]

Mrs. W's book......page 30,31,32

On May 29, 1938 Victor received the Bachelor of Arts degree at the Mission House College,

Plymouth, Wisconsin. The following summers of 1938, '39 and '40, Vic attended the

University of Chicago Divinity School while continuing his seminary studies at Mission

House Seminary during the regular fall, winter, and spring school terms. [p.30]

[bottom of page 31].... In June 1940 I left my nursing job in Sheboygan and went back to my

parents' home at New Knoxville to get ready for the birth of our wonderful first child, Don,

which event took place on Sunday, August 11. Vic was in Chicago for summer school. He came

home on short notice when I went into labor and remained with me for a day after Don's birth.

He then went back to Chicago to finish summer school.

Later that August of 1940, all three of us traveled on old U.S. 30 to New Jersey so that Vic

could begin studying for his Master of Theology degree at Princeton Theological Seminary.

He believed he could learn much at Princeton, especially from Dr. Blackwood in practical

theology.

.....[near bottom of page 32] After the memorial service [of Mother Wierwille -- age 66],

we returned to Princeton, where Victor finished his course work and wrote his master's thesis,

"Peter As An Evangelistic Preacher," which completed the requirements for his Master of

Theology degree.

On May 13, 1941, Vic, along with twenty other Princeton seminarians, received that degree.

We returned to New Knoxville for a few days, en route once more to the Mission House College

and Seminary, where Vic formally received his Master of Theology degree which he had

actually completed the work for at the end of the summer of 1940. His diploma is dated

September 1, 1940.

.

thx sky. I didn't look it all up in her book before posting.

So BA from Mission House in 38.

MT Princeton Theological Seminary in 40

DTh Pikes Peak in 48.

The timelines add up. He got his bacehlors and masters, then first pastorate in 1941, then for the doctorate he was already working full time so did a correspondence course. The July 1948 road trip was partially for attendance requirements, and to get the degree from Pikes Peak Bible Seminary. That actual school was not really a school but a single home residence in Manitou Springs Colorado with about 8 bedrooms that many of the faculty lived in. The doctoral program would consist of writing papers and sending them in for grading. Then a final presentation or sermon in person.

So basically VP had masters creds like most of his contemporary pastors. the doctoral degree is unrecognized, unaccredited because it did not involve the same level of rigor as programs at an established university. at best the doctoral program gave VP the impetus to develop his homiletics as that was the focus of his study. how to move large groups of people through speech. And it also looks like the doctoral thesis was probably an adaptation or expansion of the masters thesis.

Edited July 14, 2014 by chockfull

[WordWolf]

I didn't mean to derail the thread.

In other news,

cult leaders, besides lying a lot and spinning tales,

apparently also try to set up their own personal paramilitary organizations.

In L Ron Hubbard's case,

that was his "Sea Org."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org

http://www.xenu.net/archive/so/

http://exscientologykids.com/sea-org-2/

http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/leaving-the-so/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/06/scientology-s-sea-org-an-escape-story-for-katie-holmes-and-suri-cruise.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2168225/Tom-Cruise-Katie-Holmes-divorce-Inside-Scientologys-Sea-Org-Suri-faced-joining.html

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

I think John Juddes tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to find out what classes at Lakeland and Princeton Wierwille took, but no luck. Both institutions rejected his requests. Maybe a court order/warrant is necessary.

[excathedra]

I think John Juddes tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to find out what classes at Lakeland and Princeton Wierwille took, but no luck. Both institutions rejected his requests. Maybe a court order/warrant is necessary.

interesting in and of itself, thomas