By then they weren't sheep anymore they were 'athletes'. LCM once said that when he was a pass receiver in college he got knocked down and his coach yelled at him "GET UP, MARTINDALE, YOU CAN SLEEP LATER!" So if yelling helps an athlete...you see where I'm going.
I do see where you are going. I personally justified putting up with the yelling because of logic like this. And they also used logic about schools of the apostles and yelling where they justified yelling at corps recruits because its training. I took it, put up with it, and didn't see it.
Yeah, I see where you are going. You're saying we were athletes and thereby should have profited from yelling.
There are several problems with that. The first, and not the least of which, is that the whole "athletes" metaphor being substituted for the warfare metaphor is not scripturally sound. Secondly, you are drawing a comparison between modern day sports culture and whatever it was they were doing in ancient Rome. Do I need to elaborate beyond this?
I didn't say I agreed with LCM's yelling. But he was right about one thing. We DO wrestle against spirits, not flesh and blood. How many evil spirits have YOU killed? Then what is this "warfare" you refer to?
I didn't say I agreed with LCM's yelling. But he was right about one thing. We DO wrestle against spirits, not flesh and blood. How many evil spirits have YOU killed? Then what is this "warfare" you refer to?
We have a doctrinal forum for discussing such matters.
I was not among those who spoke to leadership, but I always said what was on my mind. Regarding the ROA 1995 incident: They did not take Dr Harbord from our RV, but found him afterwards, and then went bragging about their [wicked] deed.
They kicked an old guy out of the ROA? Such love.
Which reminds me of something my mother said about TWI: "For people who professed to love one another, they sure didn't act like it."
I never thought warfare was an excuse for yelling and screaming at people:
Our spiritual warfare is not waged with guns and sledgehammers, but by love. I have seen sufficient demons cast out by kindness, which simply smothers them because they feed on strife and bitterness and yelling.
The awesome cry of Tyndale while being burned at the stake, "Lord open the King of England's eye," paved the highway over which the Lord could bring the KJ Bible. And of course, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do," paved the way for our wholeness and graceful forgiveness at the hand of the Just and Mighty God, Who could not bestow His kindness to us if the Lord had called for vengeance and wrath and the fires of hell to come upon those who mocked and tortured and crucified Him.
By our love one for another will we be known as His disciples is as vital today as it was when the Lord first spoke it.
. . . Which reminds me of something my mother said about TWI: "For people who professed to love one another, they sure didn't act like it."
My mother thought twi people were the nicest people (such as R1ck and Judy Bagge11, Wayne and L!nd@ McMi!!an, De! and Nan(y, Ra1ph and J0anne @nders0n,J@ne and H0w@ard Yerem!an, etc. etc.), who all were so very precious and real. She met these people at our wedding.
We have a doctrinal forum for discussing such matters.
So why did YOU discuss it thusly...
Yeah, I see where you are going. You're saying we were athletes and thereby should have profited from yelling.
There are several problems with that. The first, and not the least of which, is that the whole "athletes" metaphor being substituted for the warfare metaphor is not scripturally sound. Secondly, you are drawing a comparison between modern day sports culture and whatever it was they were doing in ancient Rome. Do I need to elaborate beyond this?
You invited my response by comparing yelling (a subset of staged performances, the subject being discussed) to athletes in the spirit. I didn't discuss it, I asked if you needed further elaboration, in which case we could have moved the athletes in the spirit topic to its appropriate forum.
No additional meta discussion is needed at this point.
My first post on this was a response to Kit's saying that a shepherd doesn't gather the sheep by yelling. IMO her saying was right on the money. You were the one who made a federal case out of that.
As for stage productions? Yes, it was there, but it was there in the drug culture too.
As for stage productions? Yes, it was there, but it was there in the drug culture too.
Are we discussing the drug culture or The Way International?
The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging.
In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you?
The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you?
I felt sick to my stomach! And I was angrier than I had ever been in my life before the "revelation" or after. I also felt stupid for not having seen it sooner, because once I realized it was happening, I went back over the years of devoted service and that was all I saw....I had been used.....and in some cases.....manipulated into doing something that was against my nature.
I didn't say I agreed with LCM's yelling. But he was right about one thing. We DO wrestle against spirits, not flesh and blood. How many evil spirits have YOU killed? Then what is this "warfare" you refer to?
okay even if i get sent to doctrinal.....
when lcm yelled, i don't think he yelled at any spirits. i think he yelled at sweet believers who loved god and jesus christ with all their hearts
We have a doctrinal forum for discussing such matters.
quote:
Are we discussing the drug culture or The Way International?
The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging.
In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you?
So if I don't believe pfal was a scam I don't get to post??? You're just as intolerant of being disagreed with as twi ever was.
Are we discussing the drug culture or The Way International?
The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging.
In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you?
So if I don't believe pfal was a scam I don't get to post??? You're just as intolerant of being disagreed with as twi ever was.
As has already pointed out, you got to post.
However,
just because your posts are there doesn't mean you're posting "correctly",
that is, on-topic and civilly.
Compare these 2 approaches:
A) How do I feel about the whole thing being a scam? Well, that's just it-I disagree it was a scam.
B) How dare you make this all about it being a scam? You're oppressing me for disagreeing!
I'll change the subject and bring up the drug culture, Mr Magoo and anything else I can
think of.
You'd get a lot more respect if you tried approach A a lot more and approach B a lot less.
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WordWolf
Or, you know, click the PLUS button right by the Reply button.
excathedra
my old cranky grandfather (RIP) was always talking and b*tching about phony people - "awwwww they're all a bunch of phonies" my brother asked him shortly before he died if he had any advice for livin
excathedra
okay even if i get sent to doctrinal..... when lcm yelled, i don't think he yelled at any spirits. i think he yelled at sweet believers who loved god and jesus christ with all their hearts same with
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chockfull
I do see where you are going. I personally justified putting up with the yelling because of logic like this. And they also used logic about schools of the apostles and yelling where they justified yelling at corps recruits because its training. I took it, put up with it, and didn't see it.
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johniam
I didn't say I agreed with LCM's yelling. But he was right about one thing. We DO wrestle against spirits, not flesh and blood. How many evil spirits have YOU killed? Then what is this "warfare" you refer to?
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waysider
We have a doctrinal forum for discussing such matters.
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outandabout
They kicked an old guy out of the ROA? Such love.
Which reminds me of something my mother said about TWI: "For people who professed to love one another, they sure didn't act like it."
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newlife
I had NO idea anything was staged......I was very naive when I was in TWI......
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excathedra
john reynolds when i knew him was just a nice guy with too much hairspray in his doo
don't know how he got promoted but vicki dahl was a doll when we were friends
vince finnegan definitely knew how to yell frikkin punk from new york
who else are we talking about?
buncha phonies
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Kit Sober
I never thought warfare was an excuse for yelling and screaming at people:
Our spiritual warfare is not waged with guns and sledgehammers, but by love. I have seen sufficient demons cast out by kindness, which simply smothers them because they feed on strife and bitterness and yelling.
The awesome cry of Tyndale while being burned at the stake, "Lord open the King of England's eye," paved the highway over which the Lord could bring the KJ Bible. And of course, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do," paved the way for our wholeness and graceful forgiveness at the hand of the Just and Mighty God, Who could not bestow His kindness to us if the Lord had called for vengeance and wrath and the fires of hell to come upon those who mocked and tortured and crucified Him.
By our love one for another will we be known as His disciples is as vital today as it was when the Lord first spoke it.
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Kit Sober
My mother thought twi people were the nicest people (such as R1ck and Judy Bagge11, Wayne and L!nd@ McMi!!an, De! and Nan(y, Ra1ph and J0anne @nders0n,J@ne and H0w@ard Yerem!an, etc. etc.), who all were so very precious and real. She met these people at our wedding.
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johniam
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WordWolf
Talk of "killing evil spirits" is definitely a Doctrinal matter, especially as defined at the GSC.
If you thought his less-extreme comments about ancient Rome and Scripture were likewise Doctrinal
(albeit less so), you should have said something. There are rules, and ignoring them doesn't
change that.
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waysider
You invited my response by comparing yelling (a subset of staged performances, the subject being discussed) to athletes in the spirit. I didn't discuss it, I asked if you needed further elaboration, in which case we could have moved the athletes in the spirit topic to its appropriate forum.
No additional meta discussion is needed at this point.
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johniam
My first post on this was a response to Kit's saying that a shepherd doesn't gather the sheep by yelling. IMO her saying was right on the money. You were the one who made a federal case out of that.
As for stage productions? Yes, it was there, but it was there in the drug culture too.
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waysider
Are we discussing the drug culture or The Way International?
The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging.
In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you?
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
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krys
I felt sick to my stomach! And I was angrier than I had ever been in my life before the "revelation" or after. I also felt stupid for not having seen it sooner, because once I realized it was happening, I went back over the years of devoted service and that was all I saw....I had been used.....and in some cases.....manipulated into doing something that was against my nature.
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WordWolf
I was young and naive, so I didn't see it.
Then again, I wasn't involved that long before it all came crashing down,
and where I was, there were already locals who were more about doing things
at our level than following cues from lcm and his rantings.
But, yes, I bought into the act and played my role for a time.
Young and stupid, and altogether too trusting.
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excathedra
okay even if i get sent to doctrinal.....
when lcm yelled, i don't think he yelled at any spirits. i think he yelled at sweet believers who loved god and jesus christ with all their hearts
same with wierwille
hope that made them feel BIG
phhhhh u ccckkkkkers
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waysider
I don't think you'll be sent to doctrinal for calling them a couple of heartless blowhards.
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johniam
quote:
Are we discussing the drug culture or The Way International?
The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging.
In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you?
So if I don't believe pfal was a scam I don't get to post??? You're just as intolerant of being disagreed with as twi ever was.
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GrouchoMarxJr
"So if I don't believe pfal was a scam I don't get to post???"
Seeing that I am reading your post, I assume you do get to post...
...but trust me, it was a scam. The only thing missing was Ron Popeil
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WordWolf
As has already pointed out, you got to post.
However,
just because your posts are there doesn't mean you're posting "correctly",
that is, on-topic and civilly.
Compare these 2 approaches:
A) How do I feel about the whole thing being a scam? Well, that's just it-I disagree it was a scam.
B) How dare you make this all about it being a scam? You're oppressing me for disagreeing!
I'll change the subject and bring up the drug culture, Mr Magoo and anything else I can
think of.
You'd get a lot more respect if you tried approach A a lot more and approach B a lot less.
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waysider
You can post all you want, as evidenced by the fact that...well...you just did.
Try, though, to stay on topic and follow the rules.
As to me being intolerant, you're certainly free to have that opinion.
Back to topic
You indicate that TWI was intolerant of you when you disagreed with them.
("You're just as intolerant of being disagreed with as twi ever was.")
How did you feel when you realized you could only stay in their graces if you agreed with them?
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johniam
quote:
How did you feel when you realized you could only stay in their graces if you agreed with them?
I left.
quote:
Compare these 2 approaches:
A) How do I feel about the whole thing being a scam? Well, that's just it-I disagree it was a scam.
B) How dare you make this all about it being a scam? You're oppressing me for disagreeing!
I'll change the subject and bring up the drug culture, Mr Magoo and anything else I can
think of.
You'd get a lot more respect if you tried approach A a lot more and approach B a lot less.
Some of you come off to me as...How dare you disagree with us? We know it's a scam. So how dare you?
BTW, I'm not changing the subject. I'm contrasting and comparing. As your manner is you misrepresent me. Is that worthy of my respect?
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waysider
"BTW, I'm not changing the subject. I'm contrasting and comparing."
It's not clear to me what you are contrasting and comparing.
Would you care to elaborate?
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WordWolf
Yes, please.
I'd love to see the explanation for this one.
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