The fact that Wierwille demanded blind loyalty is very revealing about the man...He craved attention and adulation which indicates that he was insecure, egotistical, and narcistic. He demanded to be the center of attention at all times and felt he had the right to use people sexually, financially and any other way he could think of. He loved no one but himself and was the antithesis of what a Christian minister should be...and yet...AND YET...there are still many people who look upon him as their "father in the word" and still show great respect for him. Hogwash! If he tried to do today what he did then...this low life grifter would be thrown in jail
how funny that one major reason i took pfal was because i was so tired of blind faith when i had questions regarding pope and catholic religion
aside from the pikers you listed, i also saw blind loyalty from leaders such as vince finnegan, pat lynn (yes, oh my), jenkinson little POS, many more -- but at the time i looked up to them as "leaders"
when i called wierwille on the in-house phone at HQ and told him how geerwielle had ostrocized (sp?) my corps grad friend over the pond for no good reason, he said "how long do i have to suck your corps asses?" i was taken aback to say the least - holy god what a pig basturd
This may not be a very popular post, but there is a trade off. There was Wierwille and his abuse, and then there were the followers who craved something from him. I'm not talking about the kid who took the class because a nice looking guy or girl attracted them into it, I'm talking about those of us who stayed for years. What was the payoff? We were getting something from all of this. I claimed that I didn't know the stuff that was going on, which was true. Then again, I really didn't want to know either. It was all there in front of me if I was willing to look.
But TWI offered me a type of "home". Legalism, and abuse is not pleasant to say the least. But it does make certain things easy. I need for someone else to tell me I'm okay because deep inside I'm insecure. So if I do the programs, take the classes, and attend the meetings, I'm "okay". I know because they told me so. In other words, I gave them the power to define me. I wanted, I thought I needed, something else or someone to tell me I was okay. I may have been in a cult, but at least it was my cult. While I may not be getting along so well in my life, or even with other people in TWI, I could still go to a meeting and it would be my place, a sense of belonging.
So Wierwille was abusive. One mark of an abuser is that they, well, abuse. Another mark of an abuser is just when he feels he may be losing control of his victim, he does a double flip and morphs into a very sweet and kind person and then reverts back once the control is re-established. So occasionally, just occasionally a person might experience love in TWI. Then the abuse would resume and we would wait for the next drop of kindness and affirmation to come from the ivory tower of Wierwille. LCM tried to do the same thing, but not as many people gave a hoot what he thought.
The truth is, as broken as VPW was, we were also broken, we were looking for something to fill our own void. This is, in my opinion, why people continue to stay in abusive relationships and situations. Look around you at all the people that left TWI only to get involved in an offshoot or another legalistic situation. I would have stayed the same, except in my case I experienced a crisis in my life that could not be addressed by anything that existed within the TWI framework offshoot or otherwise. In other words, that which I had given about 15 years of my life to had become absolutely useless and I believe I saw things as they were. That, and I started reading Waydale and eventually Greasespot. Then again, I had had other crisis previously and they never inspired me to exit TWI, so I don't know. I guess I was just ready.
Anyway, I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes or hurt anyone's feelings. These are just thoughts of mine.
"Anyway, I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes or hurt anyone's feelings."
My toes are just fine and so are my feelings. You make a good point. We all had our reasons for staying. Sometimes I stayed to appease my (then) wife. Sometimes I stayed because I felt my exit would cause familial stress. Sometimes I stayed because it was the "honorable" thing to do. Sometimes I just stayed because it was the easiest route I could take.
"The truth is, as broken as VPW was, we were also broken, we were looking for something to fill our own void."
I agree to this, as well. That's why we were so vulnerable and made easy targets for the allure of an answer to life's struggles.
Broken arrow, I agree with your thoughts. Young children do best when they have boundaries they know they may not cross. That means they have a safe defined area in which to "play". We weren't children, but we felt "safe" as long as we stayed within the boundaries they set for us. Most of us, though, eventually grew to the point that we no longer needed nor wanted the boundaries and eventually found our way out..
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GrouchoMarxJr
The fact that Wierwille demanded blind loyalty is very revealing about the man...He craved attention and adulation which indicates that he was insecure, egotistical, and narcistic. He demanded to be the center of attention at all times and felt he had the right to use people sexually, financially and any other way he could think of. He loved no one but himself and was the antithesis of what a Christian minister should be...and yet...AND YET...there are still many people who look upon him as their "father in the word" and still show great respect for him. Hogwash! If he tried to do today what he did then...this low life grifter would be thrown in jail
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excathedra
how funny that one major reason i took pfal was because i was so tired of blind faith when i had questions regarding pope and catholic religion
aside from the pikers you listed, i also saw blind loyalty from leaders such as vince finnegan, pat lynn (yes, oh my), jenkinson little POS, many more -- but at the time i looked up to them as "leaders"
when i called wierwille on the in-house phone at HQ and told him how geerwielle had ostrocized (sp?) my corps grad friend over the pond for no good reason, he said "how long do i have to suck your corps asses?" i was taken aback to say the least - holy god what a pig basturd
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Broken Arrow
This may not be a very popular post, but there is a trade off. There was Wierwille and his abuse, and then there were the followers who craved something from him. I'm not talking about the kid who took the class because a nice looking guy or girl attracted them into it, I'm talking about those of us who stayed for years. What was the payoff? We were getting something from all of this. I claimed that I didn't know the stuff that was going on, which was true. Then again, I really didn't want to know either. It was all there in front of me if I was willing to look.
But TWI offered me a type of "home". Legalism, and abuse is not pleasant to say the least. But it does make certain things easy. I need for someone else to tell me I'm okay because deep inside I'm insecure. So if I do the programs, take the classes, and attend the meetings, I'm "okay". I know because they told me so. In other words, I gave them the power to define me. I wanted, I thought I needed, something else or someone to tell me I was okay. I may have been in a cult, but at least it was my cult. While I may not be getting along so well in my life, or even with other people in TWI, I could still go to a meeting and it would be my place, a sense of belonging.
So Wierwille was abusive. One mark of an abuser is that they, well, abuse. Another mark of an abuser is just when he feels he may be losing control of his victim, he does a double flip and morphs into a very sweet and kind person and then reverts back once the control is re-established. So occasionally, just occasionally a person might experience love in TWI. Then the abuse would resume and we would wait for the next drop of kindness and affirmation to come from the ivory tower of Wierwille. LCM tried to do the same thing, but not as many people gave a hoot what he thought.
The truth is, as broken as VPW was, we were also broken, we were looking for something to fill our own void. This is, in my opinion, why people continue to stay in abusive relationships and situations. Look around you at all the people that left TWI only to get involved in an offshoot or another legalistic situation. I would have stayed the same, except in my case I experienced a crisis in my life that could not be addressed by anything that existed within the TWI framework offshoot or otherwise. In other words, that which I had given about 15 years of my life to had become absolutely useless and I believe I saw things as they were. That, and I started reading Waydale and eventually Greasespot. Then again, I had had other crisis previously and they never inspired me to exit TWI, so I don't know. I guess I was just ready.
Anyway, I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes or hurt anyone's feelings. These are just thoughts of mine.
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Steve Lortz
Valid thoughts, Broken Arrow, that many of us can subscribe to...
Love,
Steve
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waysider
"Anyway, I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes or hurt anyone's feelings."
My toes are just fine and so are my feelings. You make a good point. We all had our reasons for staying. Sometimes I stayed to appease my (then) wife. Sometimes I stayed because I felt my exit would cause familial stress. Sometimes I stayed because it was the "honorable" thing to do. Sometimes I just stayed because it was the easiest route I could take.
"The truth is, as broken as VPW was, we were also broken, we were looking for something to fill our own void."
I agree to this, as well. That's why we were so vulnerable and made easy targets for the allure of an answer to life's struggles.
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krys
Broken arrow, I agree with your thoughts. Young children do best when they have boundaries they know they may not cross. That means they have a safe defined area in which to "play". We weren't children, but we felt "safe" as long as we stayed within the boundaries they set for us. Most of us, though, eventually grew to the point that we no longer needed nor wanted the boundaries and eventually found our way out..
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excathedra
oh dear broken arrow, that was a beautiful honest heartfelt post and i agree with you
love you,
ex
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skyrider
The simple truths in Psalms 1 were like rivers of water to a barren soul.
When I read scripture that said......"those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled"
and many other truths, my burdens in life were uplifted.
Whether it was Psalms, Proverbs, Romans or Ephesians....my heart and soul craved to know my God.
For me, twi was not about being broken or "finding a home"....it was simply an assignment of ambassadorship
to carry forth the message of a loving Father to His children. The WOWs in my college town were guiding lights
as I maneuvered thru a vast array of challenges and transitions that year. And, I will forever be thankful for
their year of commitment and service to help others.
I recently re-read that thread twi I, twi II, twi III -- from Waydale......and the perspective of those
who experienced twi during the earlier years, the way east and the way west was, again, enlightening. To see
how they viewed their involvement before the way tree jargon or ramping up of corps grads speaks volumes
that I relate to. It never was about dr. wierwille or twi's hq or ANY OF THAT.....it was about holy spirit
within and the believers living it.
Seemingly, those of the far fringes of outreach.......Heefner, Doop, Fugit and others were on the cutting edge
of a spiritual movement. But with each passing year, wierwille was centralizing control and power and the free
spirit of involvement was snuffed out like a candle in the wind. Sure, the numbers continued to amass for the
next ten years.....but the incorporation of twi only added more concrete and buildings; and less and less of
the spirit of a Living God.
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excathedra
hear, hear
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