How come VPW could get sick and no one condemned him?
Because in VP's case, his death was due to the lack of believing of Board of Trustees and the rest of TWI. If I'm not mistaken, I think someone once said that the 14th Corp was reproved because Wierwille died on their watch.
And all this "believe for this and believe for that" was based on a bunch of new-age mysticism that had about as much value as a hot pile of steaming monkey dung.
And all this "believe for this and believe for that" was based on a bunch of new-age mysticism that had about as much value as a hot pile of steaming monkey dung.
It's like I said - We're all going to get sick and die!!! Unless an accident kills us! All the "believing" we can muster cannot prevent it. Our day will come, unless the Rapture happens in our lifetime. We should mourn those we lose, not defame them for not "believing" enough.
These people are crazy!! It's beyond common sense. I can't believe I was ever in such a thing!
The so-called unbelievers and people "in the world" have more common sense and decency than TWI.
I want to add - praying for healing can work but when it doesn't - who knows? We can get healed and get healed and one day we'll still be gone. We're mortal. I don't understand it all but I do know that condemning people for their infirmities is totally off the Word. Jesus healed people. He didn't ask "What have you done that made you sick?"
We got me straightened out and on medication and back in Washington. I went out to lunch with M&ry Somebody, who is Donna M's sister. I probably still looked like death warmed over. The first thing out of her mouth was "Do you understand what it is THAT YOU DID that caused this to happen to you?"
Too bad your reply wasn't, "Yeah. I joined this cornfield cult that talks all day about believing but doesn't know the first thing about love."
I forgot how addictive this place can be for me…I start reading in one thread and then get into another, then another…anyway…
Skyrider's point about the straight up indoctrination is such a bitter pill to swallow for some. A little while after I left TWI I remember coming across a definition in a dictionary that just made me sit back and think; the definition was something along the lines of "to so indoctrinate a person as to affect a radical change in beliefs." This was next to the word "brainwash". Imagine the can of worms this opened up in my head back then – along with the shock and denial to follow.
Looking up the word "brainwash" online, I found this on science how stuff works website – this also happens to be a perfect description of the steps in the Way Corps' indoctrination process:
Word Wolf's description of tiers caught my attention too. A cross between the layers of a rotten onion and a pyramid scheme come to mind. Maybe that's why there was a lot of crying at corps graduation.
I think Groucho's comment on the program being sociopathic in nature is insightful. Sometimes to understand something I have to do a backwards-engineering-thing. So I ask – how do you make an effectiveWay Corps person?
1. Sedate the conscience, disorient the moral compass
2. Confine the intellect, discourage thinking and questioning
Here's a news flash: LIFE has a 100% fatality rate!
That said, all the condemnation and criticism is bunk, designed to engender guilt and self-condemnation, making the hapless sufferer even more vulnerable to control by the source of all this spewing garbage.
On another note, during our unhappy three months in Rome City, we divided into two groups. One group spent the morning hours cleaning and the afternoon hours in class. The other group reversed the schedule. I was morning work crew. Remember the big open staircase at Rome City that led down into a reception area? Several mornings the cleaning crew spent washing the wood with Murphy's Oil Soap, drying it, and polishing it with some wax or other. I was also amazed coming downstairs in the afternoon to our meager evening meal to find the afternoon cleaning crew had done the same time.
So completely meaningless! What a waste of time, money, and manpower.
Don't forget - I've been there too - got the T-shirt(s), the nametags, the supposed Corps status - and the scars.
I could have been earning biiiiiig money if I hadn't got sidetracked by TWI.
So could many others. You yourself, too, perhaps.
Instead, worldly careers were brushed off, dissed, "You're leaning to your five senses" etc.
WW says it right:
- Not just the Corps, though.
Despite what that prat VPW taught, I'd rather look at the examples within the Bible, both OT and NT, to see what their lifestyle really was. I see that some of them shared generously. They helped one another. They lived in fearless hope and joyful expectation - despite actual real risk to life. Others were bitchy and backbiting and selfish (nothing new there, then).
There is a lot about how they lived. There is not so much about how they sustained physical life - their earning potential. God's not interested in that. He's interested in the inside...the place where real riches of love, joy, peace, faithfulness, patience, kindness, etc truly reside.
Twinky, you are right that God is interested in what goes on inside of us; our hearts. Â But TWI was interested in our money; the more money you had, the more interested they were in you. Â I noticed that people who had money were treated much better than those who lacked it.
WW-----wow, you are correct....they taught one thing for a certain group, another for another group....Sometimes I have to wonder why I never saw this kind of thing....and it took coming here to really wake up and go, OH My gosh!!!
Twinky, I get what you are saying.....
I never did like the prosperity gospel.....it made the whole world revolve around me and what I wanted and how to get it. I'm so glad I don't operate that any more.
And I think it takes a long time to get rid of some of these beliefs and try to sort through all this stuff. So thankful for all of you who have been here and you keep opening my eyes to a new way. I never knew what signing the green card meant when I signed it, if I had, I would of run the opposite way.
You all are wonderful and my life has gotten better because of you.
NL, you are so right about the Green Card; if I had known 40 years ago what TWI was really like; I would never have gotten involved with it. Â I really enjoy the GSC, because it makes me think. Â Some of the posts make me laugh, and some of them make me cry. Â But all of the posts make me think about my time in TWI.
Yeah....I remember at Emporia sitting in Geer's teachings a couple of times.
He was my elder corps.....he was 7th corps, I was 9th.
Even then, Geer had to cite his credentials of zealous study for ALL THINGS WIERWILLE.
He confronted the corps are being lazy and apathetic when it came to vpee.
See......during his first year, Chris (and wife Barbara) would take any spare time and go to Anderson Library.
They would diligently listen to EVERY teaching by wierwille and catalog their notes meticulously.
Together, Chris and Barbara studied the habits, the likes and dislikes, the idiosyncrasies of vic and Dorothy.
EVERYTHING......what they liked to eat for breakfast, what kind of cup to sip their coffee or tea.
Family heritage, wierwille's passions, reading material, dog training, personal safety measures, etc.
When wierwille would like to take off his suit jacket after teaching so long......
Chris prided himself as the perfect servant.
No other corps could match his dedication and commitment to "the man of God." No one.
IMO, he build this mystical persona of wierwille and projected him as always walking by revelation.
On their interim year, Chris and Barbara were *selected* to be vpee's and mrs. personal valets. Surprise...(ha)
THAT was their obsessive goal....to side up next to the wierwilles.
They obsessed over it every waking hour.
This fixation on wierwille ESCALATED the psycho geer into the stratosphere of the sociopathic realm.
His eyes were fixated on every movement of the wierwilles. He took it to the furthest extremes imaginable.
And.....wierwille, obviously, allowed it to consume him in narcissism nirvana.
This association was toxic and unbiblical every way possible.
Vpw and geer had a toxicity to their companionship.....much like rosie and donna.
They each feed off each other. Now, the girls are in charge.
Sky, I have never met Chris, or his wife Barbara. Â But, it sounds creepy to me that they were slaves to VPW, and his wife. Â I'm sure Mental Health Specialists have a term for people like Chris, and his wife. Â I think they were both a little off, but that is just my opinion.
whoa back up a minute lol get the f outta here, but why in the world should i be surprised?
i'm wondering when geer had time to have sex with another woman which i know he was at emporia. maybe just part of the study of the man of god
as you know, psycho geer was the one driving the bus when i was sexually assaulted by psycho-w
and remember that time i told you all about.... wierwille and geerwille were delivering puppies and barbara was helping and wierwille lashed into her in a way that was worse that that girl in the exorcist talking to the priest
and gierwille just sat back and let it happen
very very very disturbed people
yes much like donna and rosalie
Ex, if I was helping someone do something, and he started screaming at me, I would tell him to F-off! Â If I had been Barbara, I would have walked away from the situation. Â And then I would have uploaded on my husband, what he should of done for me in that situation. Â Boy, it ticks me off that VPW screamed at someone who was trying to help; and makes me livid that CG didn't stand up for his wife. Â What a coward he was!!
Yeah, I know.....lots of us 'rebels' came out of the 9th corps. :)
Some here might not realize that quite often CLASS FACULTY was derived from the elder corps. That's right, folks......many classes, select teachings and pertinent topics were taught by the elder corps on campus. Yep, that's how to scrimp on salary/overhead and position a campus with "proper accreditation" isn't it?
For me, it was ONE OF THOSE TEACHINGS that sticks in the brain cells.....because I vividly remember thinking "I didn't sign to be way corps to be following the man, wierwille." Yet, here.....right in front of me, Christopher C. Geer was confronting the 7th and 9th corps for NOT listening to EVERY TEACHING EVER TAUGHT BY WIERWILLE THRU THE YEARS ON TAPE.
And another thing.....we were scolded for NOT VOLUNTEERING for extra duties. Yet, Geer could sneak away to hide out in the library and meticulously take notes and file them away for later use. He had a plan to be *most valued bootlicker, valet, and bus driver......and it happened.
Maybe, in 1989......THAT is why I didn't hop on a plane to get to gartmore and seek geer.
Sky, what garbage! Â I heard VPW teach live, and on tape. Â He was boring!! Â I have heard Chris's teaching tapes; they are also boring! Â No wonder why so many people who post here, have such low opinions of Chris.
I remember when we all got lice. They poured kerosene on our heads, and we had to put all our bedding etc outside so the low temperature would kill the lice. Good times.
Out, lice!!! Â I think if that had happened to me, I would have left the Corps immediately!!
Corps or no corps, failure to operate the mystical, magical "law of believing" was always regarded as a sign of spiritual weakness, especially for those in leadership type positions. I've seen people try to "believe away" chronic illness, cancer, severe injuries, volatile domestic situations, toxic (physical and/or psychological) work environments, and more. Because the law of believing is equally as potent as a handful of fairy dust, it usually doesn't have a happy ending.
Way, sounds like a lot of horses--t to me. Â Sometimes I think there was a serve lack of Common Sense in Way World. Â If I need medical help, or other types of help, I get them. Â God loves me, and expects me to use my brain; that's why He gave me one.
I remember one week in res where I was up a lot with little sleep due to nonsense (I know, I know, like always right?) I prayed for complete peace not sleep as I didn't feel that was realistic. Coincidentally, I didn't run into the CC's wife all day long, nor any single one of a handful of "Reprovadors" (whole other story believe me).
God is magnificent. He just doesn't fit into a box.
When I was diagnosed in 1994 with Type I diabetes, the kind that requires insulin full time, we had been kicked out of FWC the year before, 1993. During that three months in residence, I got very very sick indeed, like the worst cold/flu/whatever ever experienced. I was offered bentonite and allowed to rest for an hour or two. This was undoubtedly the initial infection with the mystery virus that eventually caused my body to kill off my islet cells (type 1 is an auto-immune disorder but that's not the point).
Fast forward to ROA 1994. I had been exhausted for about four months, unable to eat or do much of anything. I'd gone from 140 lb to 111 lb in six weeks without diet or exercise. The morons who were our fellowship leaders were no help. We went to the ROA 1994 and I was completely unable to move or much of anything and ended up in the hospital with a diagnosis of type 1 diabetes and a blood glucose of 702.
We got me straightened out and on medication and back in Washington. I went out to lunch with M&ry Somebody, who is Donna M's sister. I probably still looked like death warmed over. The first thing out of her mouth was "Do you understand what it is THAT YOU DID that caused this to happen to you?"
I was floored. I had never once considered that God had given me this disorder (HE didn't!) I had never once considered that it was my fault.
This was the prevalent attitude then. If you were sick you had done something to deserve it. I went through holy screaming hell until we left. The crowning joy was when we got a SNS tape from LCM which opened with him stating, in a very portentous tone. "If you have a chronic disease in your life, it is because YOU have chronic sin in your life."
I think we were already out and back home when we got that. I was only too happy to write a letter to HQ saying I didn't any more tapes, magazines or other BS from them.
I've struggled with this concept for years. It's not exclusive to TWI; the Mars Hill church plant we attended also teaches illness is the result of an unknown and therefore unconfessed sin and that all sickness and disease come from God to punish believers.
It's sad the crap people teach in God's Name. I don't think He likes it much, either.
WG, I think you are right; I don't think God likes crap being taught in His name. Â In the Navy, we used to say, " S--t happens." Â Sometimes you get sick, because of stress, the environment, the weather, ect. Â Sometimes it may be your fault that you get sick, sometimes it isn't. Â Ask any Medical Professional. Â
Because in VP's case, his death was due to the lack of believing of Board of Trustees and the rest of TWI. If I'm not mistaken, I think someone once said that the 14th Corp was reproved because Wierwille died on their watch.
BA, gee the fact that he was an alcoholic, smoked to excess, and didn't exercise, had nothing to do with his death, did it??!!
And all this "believe for this and believe for that" was based on a bunch of new-age mysticism that had about as much value as a hot pile of steaming monkey dung.
Way, what a colorful expression: a hot pile of monkey dung!! Â You rock honey!
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newlife
WW-----wow, you are correct....they taught one thing for a certain group, another for another group....Sometimes I have to wonder why I never saw this kind of thing....and it took coming here to reall
chockfull
Yessss!!!! Keep them coming, we are on a roll. I remember one week in res where I was up a lot with little sleep due to nonsense (I know, I know, like always right?) I prayed for complete peace n
outandabout
How could they condemn people who got sick? Aren't we all in corruptible bodies like The Word says? How come VPW could get sick and no one condemned him? Don't we all eventually succumb to disease
Broken Arrow
Because in VP's case, his death was due to the lack of believing of Board of Trustees and the rest of TWI. If I'm not mistaken, I think someone once said that the 14th Corp was reproved because Wierwille died on their watch.
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waysider
And all this "believe for this and believe for that" was based on a bunch of new-age mysticism that had about as much value as a hot pile of steaming monkey dung.
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outandabout
It's like I said - We're all going to get sick and die!!! Unless an accident kills us! All the "believing" we can muster cannot prevent it. Our day will come, unless the Rapture happens in our lifetime. We should mourn those we lose, not defame them for not "believing" enough.
These people are crazy!! It's beyond common sense. I can't believe I was ever in such a thing!
The so-called unbelievers and people "in the world" have more common sense and decency than TWI.
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outandabout
I want to add - praying for healing can work but when it doesn't - who knows? We can get healed and get healed and one day we'll still be gone. We're mortal. I don't understand it all but I do know that condemning people for their infirmities is totally off the Word. Jesus healed people. He didn't ask "What have you done that made you sick?"
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GeorgeStGeorge
Too bad your reply wasn't, "Yeah. I joined this cornfield cult that talks all day about believing but doesn't know the first thing about love."
George
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krys
George, I wish I'd said that!
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T-Bone
I forgot how addictive this place can be for me…I start reading in one thread and then get into another, then another…anyway…
Skyrider's point about the straight up indoctrination is such a bitter pill to swallow for some. A little while after I left TWI I remember coming across a definition in a dictionary that just made me sit back and think; the definition was something along the lines of "to so indoctrinate a person as to affect a radical change in beliefs." This was next to the word "brainwash". Imagine the can of worms this opened up in my head back then – along with the shock and denial to follow.
Looking up the word "brainwash" online, I found this on science how stuff works website – this also happens to be a perfect description of the steps in the Way Corps' indoctrination process:
1. Assault on Identity
2. Guilt
3. Self-betrayal
4. Breaking Point
5. Leniency
6. Compulsion to confess
7. Channeling of Guilt
8. Releasing of Guilt
9. Progress and harmony
10. Final confession and rebirth
link to article on Science How Stuff Works website
== == == ==
Word Wolf's description of tiers caught my attention too. A cross between the layers of a rotten onion and a pyramid scheme come to mind. Maybe that's why there was a lot of crying at corps graduation.
I think Groucho's comment on the program being sociopathic in nature is insightful. Sometimes to understand something I have to do a backwards-engineering-thing. So I ask – how do you make an effective Way Corps person?
1. Sedate the conscience, disorient the moral compass
2. Confine the intellect, discourage thinking and questioning
3. Encourage blind loyalty [as Skyrider mentioned above]
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excathedra
thank you great post t
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Watered Garden
Here's a news flash: LIFE has a 100% fatality rate!
That said, all the condemnation and criticism is bunk, designed to engender guilt and self-condemnation, making the hapless sufferer even more vulnerable to control by the source of all this spewing garbage.
On another note, during our unhappy three months in Rome City, we divided into two groups. One group spent the morning hours cleaning and the afternoon hours in class. The other group reversed the schedule. I was morning work crew. Remember the big open staircase at Rome City that led down into a reception area? Several mornings the cleaning crew spent washing the wood with Murphy's Oil Soap, drying it, and polishing it with some wax or other. I was also amazed coming downstairs in the afternoon to our meager evening meal to find the afternoon cleaning crew had done the same time.
So completely meaningless! What a waste of time, money, and manpower.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Do you realize that every person that Jesus healed DIED afterward? :lol:
George
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, you are right that God is interested in what goes on inside of us; our hearts. Â But TWI was interested in our money; the more money you had, the more interested they were in you. Â I noticed that people who had money were treated much better than those who lacked it.
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Grace Valerie Claire
NL, you are so right about the Green Card; if I had known 40 years ago what TWI was really like; I would never have gotten involved with it. Â I really enjoy the GSC, because it makes me think. Â Some of the posts make me laugh, and some of them make me cry. Â But all of the posts make me think about my time in TWI.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Or King!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Ex, are you sure about that?? Â I love reading your posts; they make me think. Â I'm sure a lot of others here at the GSC feel the same way I do.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, I have never met Chris, or his wife Barbara. Â But, it sounds creepy to me that they were slaves to VPW, and his wife. Â I'm sure Mental Health Specialists have a term for people like Chris, and his wife. Â I think they were both a little off, but that is just my opinion.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Ex, if I was helping someone do something, and he started screaming at me, I would tell him to F-off! Â If I had been Barbara, I would have walked away from the situation. Â And then I would have uploaded on my husband, what he should of done for me in that situation. Â Boy, it ticks me off that VPW screamed at someone who was trying to help; and makes me livid that CG didn't stand up for his wife. Â What a coward he was!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, what garbage! Â I heard VPW teach live, and on tape. Â He was boring!! Â I have heard Chris's teaching tapes; they are also boring! Â No wonder why so many people who post here, have such low opinions of Chris.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Out, lice!!! Â I think if that had happened to me, I would have left the Corps immediately!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, sounds like a lot of horses--t to me. Â Sometimes I think there was a serve lack of Common Sense in Way World. Â If I need medical help, or other types of help, I get them. Â God loves me, and expects me to use my brain; that's why He gave me one.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock, thank God for that!
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Grace Valerie Claire
WG, I think you are right; I don't think God likes crap being taught in His name. Â In the Navy, we used to say, " S--t happens." Â Sometimes you get sick, because of stress, the environment, the weather, ect. Â Sometimes it may be your fault that you get sick, sometimes it isn't. Â Ask any Medical Professional. Â
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Grace Valerie Claire
Death, and taxes are the only sure things in life.
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Grace Valerie Claire
BA, gee the fact that he was an alcoholic, smoked to excess, and didn't exercise, had nothing to do with his death, did it??!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, what a colorful expression: a hot pile of monkey dung!! Â You rock honey!
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