Do not forget that, dictor Barnard is the direct fruit of twi's dictor paul wierwille, King doofus martindale the only, and Rosie the riveter rivenbark. They are the only presidents twit has ever had. EVERY ONE OF THEM IS AS GUILTY OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ON UNCONSENTING MINORS AS IS VICTOR BARNARD! Only difference is that their crimes number in the hundreds not just 59. Hear me OH State Law Enforcement. They have even been found guilty by Court Rulings in Shelby County, OH! Why are they still free to rape and molest innocents??? Je Cuse!
REMEMBER! Isolation, intimidation (both physical and psychological) and character assassination are the hallmarks of way int'l lying from the highest seats of internal authority. They are the hallmarks of all Clergy sexual and spiritual abuse. I am quite sure the the ATTNY GENERAL's office of the State of OH must have a very long list of the crimes and misdemeanors over the last 50 YEARS! TWI shuts them down exactly as described above and only a very few have had the personal strength and character to make it into court. AND, there have been winners! I accuse TWI of continued coverup of their long trail of sexual abuse by clergy and top officials on the Board of Trustees all the way through 2002. Why no prosecutions? No plaintiffs. Even the Roman Catholic Church has been found guilty of horrible, institutionalized serial sexual abuse. Hopefully it won't take centuries before Wierwille, martindale, Rivenbark, Coward Allen, Christopher Geer, Donna Lombardi, John A. Lynn, Gerald Wrenn, John Linder, Charles Quillen, Lawrence and Constance Panarello, Bill and Marcia Greene, Alan Licht, Vince Finnegan, and other top former TWI leaders are all guilty of clergy sexual and spiritual abuse. Je Cuse!
REMEMBER! Isolation, intimidation (both physical and psychological) and character assassination are the hallmarks of way int'l lying from the highest seats of internal authority. They are the hallmarks of all Clergy sexual and spiritual abuse. I am quite sure the the ATTNY GENERAL's office of the State of OH must have a very long list of the crimes and misdemeanors over the last 50 YEARS! TWI shuts them down exactly as described above and only a very few have had the personal strength and character to make it into court. AND, there have been winners! I accuse TWI of continued coverup of their long trail of sexual abuse by clergy and top officials on the Board of Trustees all the way through 2002. Why no prosecutions? No plaintiffs. Even the Roman Catholic Church has been found guilty of horrible, institutionalized serial sexual abuse. Hopefully it won't take centuries before Wierwille, martindale, Rivenbark, Coward Allen, Christopher Geer, Donna Lombardi, John A. Lynn, Gerald Wrenn, John Linder, Charles Quillen, Lawrence and Constance Panarello, Bill and Marcia Greene, Alan Licht, Vince Finnegan, and other top former TWI leaders are all guilty of clergy sexual and spiritual abuse. Je Cuse!
You reminded me of something - I watched Spotlight not long ago; from IMDB it's described as "The true story of how the Boston Globe uncovered the massive scandal of child molestation and cover-up within the local Catholic Archdiocese, shaking the entire Catholic Church to its core."
And with me being raised in the Roman Catholic Church and then learning more about the veiled dark side of TWI on Grease Spot – the movie packed a one-two punch of disturbing relevance. I can't help but play the overzealous detective who sees a similar modus operandi.
You've got Roman Catholic parishioners spilling the beans to the priest in confession and in similar vein corpse students having to submit a "birth to the way corps" paper at the beginning of the program. And besides that there would be endless opportunities for predators to mark their next target if you think about all the "counseling" situations that arise in both religions.
I'll have to see the movie again to get the details right of this one scene – where a reporter tracks down a former priest…bishop…some clergy dude…anyway…his name was on a list of molesters in sealed court documents but somehow the reporter got a bead on this guy…anyway…she goes to his house and instead of denying he molested anyone he goes on about how he never enjoyed it but somehow it was to help the victim…not sure i got all the details right - but shookeydoo ughhhh…his whole act of denying that it was pleasurable was repugnant enough to screw up the movie story line tracker in my head….triple dog dare ya to puke on that one!
The following was posted by mrap in response to the news that dictor barnard was arrested and jailed in Brazil awaiting extradition to the US for trial on 59 counts of sexual assault on a minor:
Posts:343
Joined:09-March 15
Gender:Male
Posted 11 March 2015 - 10:01 PM
"Having know and trusted loved ones who commit horific acts is not only relegated to TWI or similar organizations. It's power, it happens in families, businesses and the military. It's the power. Take a couple of our presidents for example. What hurts is when it hits home - we think we should have been able to do things about it and then in the end - we get a guilt complex. And again, in the end, we have to deal with that guilt, over and over, and over..........! Kinda like the death thing: Denial, Anger, etc. Do we all want justice or just plain old revenge - as I heard on GSC on a long ago thread: Karma. So, what emotion do you really want to wallow in, choose carefully, cause it will stick to you."
At the time, this post was so offensive to me, that the only response I could muster was "Ugh!" Now that dictor Barnard is heading home for JUSTICE, I would like to address the incredibly offensive post plopped down here.
"Having known and trusted loved ones who commit horrific acts is not only relegated to TWI or similar organizations."
Yeah So? What does that mean? TWI's rampant, institutionalized, serial sexual and spiritual abuse is just another of the many? That makes it somehow less "horrific"? Let me remind you mrap, these were not merely "horrific acts", they are horrific CRIMES with horrific damage done to human beings willfully with malice and forethought. It's not just some family secret, military coverup, or "run of the mill" clergy scandal in the Catholic Church. These are felonies times 59! The serial rape and sexual abuse of minor females was willfully perpetrated upon minor females AT LEAST 59 times over 9 years on only 2 out of 10 VICTIMS. That's right.......VICTIMS. It was done with approval and consent of the parents who had also engaged in barnard's godly adultery and wife-snatching. Tornambe's wife and his other daughter are still with the cult in WA, where they were living with barnard's wife!!
"It's power, it happens in families, businesses and the military. It's the power. Take a couple of our presidents for example. What hurts is when it hits home - we think we should have been able to do things about it and then in the end - we get a guilt complex. And again, in the end, we have to deal with that guilt, over and over, and over........"
It's "the power"! That is such a hopelessly myopic statement. IT IS PATHOLOGICAL BEHAVIOR. Mental illness or what you call "debbil spurt possession". Barnard had no "power" over these people other than that which they willingly and willfully gave him. He was no military officer or rich millionaire boss. He was and is a pathologically disturbed mentally ill individual of very little consequence outside of his cult. It DOES NOT just "hurt when it "hits home"! It hurts every single time it occurs to any innocent victim anywhere any time. It hurt Lindsay Tornambe the instant her criminal parents agreed to give her to Barnard for his use. Carmen's corpse grad spouse had already enjoyed sexual relations with her apostle, so why shouldn't her daughters?!! That was horrific criminal and pathological crime right then and there for little 13 year old Lindsay Tornambe! It's just like any other rape case. She was asking for it wasn't she? Well it ain't my daughter, is it?
"we think we should have been able to do things about it and then in the end - we get a guilt complex. And again, in the end, we have to deal with that guilt over and over and over.......".
THEY SHOULD AND COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND DID NOT! They consented! Should they be guilt ridden? No! They should be in jail. Jallyroll lynn took a $1000 honorarium and free plane tickets to teach at RRF in the late 90's. Brad Thorpe former twit limp leader and head of HR at new Knoxville for many years was also there. Jallyroll got Barnard to take Momentus and he knew what Barnard was up to. Well.....jallyroll took the $1000, went home and never confronted Barnard! It wasn't until Barnard angrily rejected Momentus and CES theology that jallyroll cut any ties.
"Kinda like the death thing: Denial, Anger, etc. Do we all want justice or just plain old revenge - as I heard on GSC on a long ago thread: Karma. So, what emotion do you really want to wallow in, choose carefully, cause it will stick to you."
It's not a matter of what YOU or we want. It is that Lindsay DESERVES JUSTICE and so does Barnard! Whether we want it or not is immaterial. What does Justice demand?? Lindsay Tornambe did not have a choice as to which "emotion" she wanted to "wallow in". She was a captive from age 13 to age 21! Don't you get that? Apparently not. She chose not to lie and play the game.She stood up for herself and justice, and isn't running around for 30 years playing the blame game like you. You have a lot to learn from her. She's not playing some whiney victim card. She sought and is obtaining PROFESSIONAL help from real doctors and lawyers and law enforcement.
Edited by Modgellan edited out personal attacks and cleaned up the formatting to be easier to understand.
T-Bone, the film you're thinking of is "Spotlight" - excellent film.
I found myself more than a little disturbed after seeing the film - angry at the cover-up, angry and distressed at what had been done to all of us by TWI.
I mean I accuse Twinky. Funny how that's your only question. Guess you just want to rag on me for "namecalling"? I told you what I think in an open forum. You don't seem to have much to say other than "What do you mean?". I posted perfectly clearly what I mean. Any other questions?
Peace, DWBH. I'm just not going to get involved in your fight with MRAP.
BTW I did see that interview with Lindsay and her father. I was with Ex10 and we were open-mouthed and shocked. It sounded unbelievably appalling - even to us, who have some background in the bizarre practices of TWI and its offshoots. How on earth could anyone do that? How could parents do that? And to their own daughter?!!!!
Fair enough Twinky. I don't fault you one bit on that!
BTW........HAPPY BIRTHDAY TWINKY! A tribute to British womanhood and strength you are IMO. Always enjoy reading you wherever we cross paths. I hope you have a great day of celebrating YOU with family and friends today. You deserve it! How's it feel to be 40? Love and peace to you dear.
I mean I accuse Twinky. Funny how that's your only question. Guess you just want to rag on me for "namecalling"? I told you what I think in an open forum. You don't seem to have much to say other than "What do you mean?". I posted perfectly clearly what I mean. Any other questions?
DWBH, Twinky (btw, HBD, Twinky!) was asking for clarification and telling you the correct way to put it if (since) that's what you meant.
I understand that Rocky. I used the words "I accuse" throughout the post and just did the j'accuse at the end and misspelled it. It was fairly obvious I thought. All is well......thanks for your help. The Twink is cool!
Thanks, DWBH and Rocky. I had a nice day and was taken out to the best Italian restaurant in the city, in the evening. All the waiters sang to me (and all the other birthday people). Lovely :) :) :)
40... if only...
On second thoughts... when I was 40 I was still a "prisoner" of that organisation. Life is much better outside the walls of "the household."
Bringing this back to the topivc of Victor Arden Barnard's extradition.
According to the article Twinky posted, his attorney said
"I don't know if, as a matter of policy, the U.S. government would agree to conditionally extradite someone," Halberg said. "In a practical sense, it would be a life sentence anyway."
It is my understanding that the extradition treaty between the US and Brazil already includes the condition that prisoners will not be able to face longer terms in the US than they would face in the Brazil had they committed those crimes in Brazil. Barnard's Brazilian attorney stated that fact back when he was arrested a year ago. I doubt that the US would balk at agreeing to the condition, either as a matter of principle of the treaty we have with Brazil, or in considering the age of criminal.
I never sat through Momentus. I know it had a profoundly negative effect on some of its students, one of which was Barnard. Can someone provide a short explanation of what it was all about?
I never sat through Momentus. I know it had a profoundly negative effect on some of its students, one of which was Barnard. Can someone provide a short explanation of what it was all about?
I can't post a SHORT explanation.
There's an entire thread called "Momentus." here:
The briefest posts not on that thread, but related, that I could find:
There's another way to look at it, many people don't believe that these programs are the right way to deal with issues in their lives - it has nothing to do with their level of 'maturity' - whatever you mean by that.
CS, I'm not saying you are doing this, but it is manipulative to accuse people of not taking a program because they lack maturity and are not willing to take a 'deeper look' into their lives. I've heard this from all the multi-level marketing 'pay-per-use' psycho-babble programs, including the grandpapa of vision quest, EST.
For those unfamiliar with the foundation of Momentus, Vision Quest, Life Spring, etc etc - read about it here. It's pretty twisted and the current versions sound ~very similar~. And if you do support Momentus and did have a 'positive experience' with it, I think (IMHO) you have a responsibility to be familiar with it's roots and concepts if you're going to recommend it to others while your are representing Christ.
"The Training Series consists of the Discovery Seminar, Breakthrough Training, and The Clearing. We also offer the One Accord Workshop for married couples. Each of these unique experiential events are designed to produce maximum transformational growth in a short period of time. In addition, we have a one day workshop, Imagine.The Clearing is available to Breakthrough Grads. We also have a two day workshop for men, My Father's Eyes."
I know I'm boring, but Biblical growth always seems to look like, 'a tree planted by the river of living water.' No one likes to watch a tree grow, or paint dry, it's very boring, and also not 'maximum transformational growth' but it is in the bible, like God having people sit in a desert for 40 years, or Jesus preparing for 30 years to minister for 3.
Here is a 2007 initiative from ACCD off their website.
"Public Relations Initiative - Walk out Matthew 18 initiative for every online ACCD detractor. Prepare to litigate against those who print defamatory content about ACCD online, and are unwilling to walk out Matthew 18 regarding this offense, and proceed accordingly, as needed."
Litigation is completely against 1 Cor 6:1-8, as has come up in the CES/STFI MG discussions. Kind of disconcerting that people want to jump to litigation for online detractors, gosh, like um, hmmm... like this site has been for other groups. This is not like litigation because someone took stole your money or swiped a deed from a widow, this is people threatening to sue other Christians who were involved in the program and airing their concerns to other Christians. These are the people that DEVELOPED the program.
If and when people are ready to confront the 'crap' that lives in them churches should take a Biblical approach starting with calling on Jesus. People call Momentus a 'training course' - what does it train you in? What does it train you to do? If it is an approach to pursue Godliness is it found in the Bible? Does it replace the Bible and a relationship with Jesus? Are you instructed to do the Biblical things first, and then do this, or do them both, or primarily focus on the 'training?'
Can you picture Jesus as a Momentus trainer or attendee yelling at you and telling you to punch a pillow and yell at your parents? Honestly I cannot.
There are plenty of worldly programs that offer 'results' that have nothing to do with the Bible, and programs that claim to change believers and unbelievers alike are certainly not doing it by the transforming of their minds (biblically) or the power of the holy spirit.
Churches should teach the Bible and help people get to know Jesus.
How well can you trust a group that's always changing their name-
as if they don't WANT people to learn about them?
Momentus has also been known as "Breakthrough" and "Lifespring."
What their current name is, I don't know, since they went through both
"One Lifespring follower, Sue Hawkes, started a similar program, called Vistar, but it was unsuccessful. Lifespring training, once offered under a unified corporate umbrella, now appears in several guises world-wide delivered by differently-named companies. Some of these companies offering the training programs once offered by or based on Lifespring include Momentus; Insight Seminars; Resource Realizations; The Great Life Foundation, Visionworks; The Impact Trainings; Harmony Institute; Spectrum Trainings; Phoenix2000, Vistar/Serendipidity; Summit Education; Personal Dynamics; Choicenter; Millennium 3; Asia Works; Argentina Works; Essential Education; Rising Star Communications; Humanus Institute; and Wings Seminars
All sorts of different names, all to stay under the radar.
Oh, that mine enemy had stuck to one name at a time!
Matthew 18:5-7
King James Version (KJV)
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Luke 17:1-3
King James Version (KJV)
17 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
"Accused Minnesota cult leader Victor Barnard was all set to be extradited Thursday back to Minnesota from Brazil. Federal Marshals were preparing for the transfer to a jail in Pine County, Minn. And then, suddenly, the deal was off, for now. "Multiples sources tell the FOX 9 Investigators the diplomatic snafu comes down to the precise wording of the extradition agreement. As FOX 9 previously reported, Brazil's Supreme Court said they would only release Barnard to U.S. custody if it is agreed that his sentence, if convicted of the charges in Minnesota, would not exceed 30 years in prison...." continued
Just a personal opinion here. The guy is 53 years old. If he can survive the stresses of prison life (not an easy task), a 30 year sentence would make him 83 when he gets out. You might as well think of it as a life sentence. I'm just sayin'.
Waysider, on those restorative justice schemes, one of the requirements is to have to face the victim(s) and be told exactly what the effects on the victim have been. Restorative justice shows offenders that all of their activities affect others and >>they themselves<< are responsible for their choices and actions and can be held accountable for them. It's all done in a carefully controlled environment. Both/all parties have to agree, and there are trained counsellors / facilitators and a lot of support for the victim. The offender can't answer back, has to be quiet and listen, and not try to "justify" the offending behaviour. There's no physical contact (the vic can't beat the offender up!) It isn't suitable for all offences, particularly those involving domestic or sexual violence, and a careful risk assessment needs to be done, to safeguard the victim from further harm.
Offenders who have been through the process often find it horrendous and may prefer to go to prison. Having to face the victim(s) makes their crime all the more real and forces the crims to see their victims as real people with real feelings and emotions. They have to face the anger, the hurt, the - whatever - of their victims.
The victims find an opportunity to vent and often feel they have some "justice," where the sterile court system often makes them feel powerless, just a cog and not a person.
If this abusive "minister" can't face his victims, he's gonna have an awfully hard time explaining himself to Jesus Christ - whose name he has taken in vain and used to abuse these young women. Jesus as principal victim isn't going to be all lovey-dovey about it.
I think if he'd have abused my daughter, though, I'd be wanting not to talk but to chop his head off with a hatchet, or kick him VERY hard in a place he'd find very uncomfortable.
Or spit in his face.
If he'd abused me ... I dunno, from what I saw of the daughter on a TV show (Dr Phil?), she's doing remarkably well for herself, considering. It wouldn't be surprising if she has some real anger towards him and if she didn't ever want to face him - in a courtroom or any other setting.
I think if he'd have abused my daughter, though, I'd be wanting not to talk but to chop his head off with a hatchet, or kick him VERY hard in a place he'd find very uncomfortable.
Or spit in his face.
If he'd abused me ... I dunno, from what I saw of the daughter on a TV show (Dr Phil?), she's doing remarkably well for herself, considering. It wouldn't be surprising if she has some real anger towards him and if she didn't ever want to face him - in a courtroom or any other setting.
No doubt a lot of that is or will be in play. As I understand it, from about the time Lindsay was on Dr Phil's show, she was pretty angry with her parents even though her father was at least somewhat remorseful.
Prayers / thoughts / good wishes (depending on your PoV) to his victims (all of them) - it may be a very difficult time for them over the next few months while the trial is being arranged.
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Rocky
Links to local and national news coverage, including video from Fox9 and the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Photo essay... Star Tribune article with video Two Childhood Rape Survivors Just Ended a C
MnMom
I know for a fact Peggy is still devoted to him (Victor) even after he has plead guilty. I know Lacey (2nd oldest daughter) is still out in Spokane or Bellingham area. I can only guess she supports
Broken Arrow
Un-bel-ievable!!! That any parent, but especially a parent who espouses to know God, would literally sacrifice not just one daughter but two and thinking they're doing God's will somehow! How wazzed o
DontWorryBeHappy
Do not forget that, dictor Barnard is the direct fruit of twi's dictor paul wierwille, King doofus martindale the only, and Rosie the riveter rivenbark. They are the only presidents twit has ever had. EVERY ONE OF THEM IS AS GUILTY OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ON UNCONSENTING MINORS AS IS VICTOR BARNARD! Only difference is that their crimes number in the hundreds not just 59. Hear me OH State Law Enforcement. They have even been found guilty by Court Rulings in Shelby County, OH! Why are they still free to rape and molest innocents??? Je Cuse!
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DontWorryBeHappy
REMEMBER! Isolation, intimidation (both physical and psychological) and character assassination are the hallmarks of way int'l lying from the highest seats of internal authority. They are the hallmarks of all Clergy sexual and spiritual abuse. I am quite sure the the ATTNY GENERAL's office of the State of OH must have a very long list of the crimes and misdemeanors over the last 50 YEARS! TWI shuts them down exactly as described above and only a very few have had the personal strength and character to make it into court. AND, there have been winners! I accuse TWI of continued coverup of their long trail of sexual abuse by clergy and top officials on the Board of Trustees all the way through 2002. Why no prosecutions? No plaintiffs. Even the Roman Catholic Church has been found guilty of horrible, institutionalized serial sexual abuse. Hopefully it won't take centuries before Wierwille, martindale, Rivenbark, Coward Allen, Christopher Geer, Donna Lombardi, John A. Lynn, Gerald Wrenn, John Linder, Charles Quillen, Lawrence and Constance Panarello, Bill and Marcia Greene, Alan Licht, Vince Finnegan, and other top former TWI leaders are all guilty of clergy sexual and spiritual abuse. Je Cuse!
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T-Bone
You reminded me of something - I watched Spotlight not long ago; from IMDB it's described as "The true story of how the Boston Globe uncovered the massive scandal of child molestation and cover-up within the local Catholic Archdiocese, shaking the entire Catholic Church to its core."
And with me being raised in the Roman Catholic Church and then learning more about the veiled dark side of TWI on Grease Spot – the movie packed a one-two punch of disturbing relevance. I can't help but play the overzealous detective who sees a similar modus operandi.
You've got Roman Catholic parishioners spilling the beans to the priest in confession and in similar vein corpse students having to submit a "birth to the way corps" paper at the beginning of the program. And besides that there would be endless opportunities for predators to mark their next target if you think about all the "counseling" situations that arise in both religions.
I'll have to see the movie again to get the details right of this one scene – where a reporter tracks down a former priest…bishop…some clergy dude…anyway…his name was on a list of molesters in sealed court documents but somehow the reporter got a bead on this guy…anyway…she goes to his house and instead of denying he molested anyone he goes on about how he never enjoyed it but somehow it was to help the victim…not sure i got all the details right - but shookeydoo ughhhh…his whole act of denying that it was pleasurable was repugnant enough to screw up the movie story line tracker in my head….triple dog dare ya to puke on that one!
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DontWorryBeHappy
The following was posted by mrap in response to the news that dictor barnard was arrested and jailed in Brazil awaiting extradition to the US for trial on 59 counts of sexual assault on a minor:
At the time, this post was so offensive to me, that the only response I could muster was "Ugh!" Now that dictor Barnard is heading home for JUSTICE, I would like to address the incredibly offensive post plopped down here.
Yeah So? What does that mean? TWI's rampant, institutionalized, serial sexual and spiritual abuse is just another of the many? That makes it somehow less "horrific"? Let me remind you mrap, these were not merely "horrific acts", they are horrific CRIMES with horrific damage done to human beings willfully with malice and forethought. It's not just some family secret, military coverup, or "run of the mill" clergy scandal in the Catholic Church. These are felonies times 59! The serial rape and sexual abuse of minor females was willfully perpetrated upon minor females AT LEAST 59 times over 9 years on only 2 out of 10 VICTIMS. That's right.......VICTIMS. It was done with approval and consent of the parents who had also engaged in barnard's godly adultery and wife-snatching. Tornambe's wife and his other daughter are still with the cult in WA, where they were living with barnard's wife!!
It's "the power"! That is such a hopelessly myopic statement. IT IS PATHOLOGICAL BEHAVIOR. Mental illness or what you call "debbil spurt possession". Barnard had no "power" over these people other than that which they willingly and willfully gave him. He was no military officer or rich millionaire boss. He was and is a pathologically disturbed mentally ill individual of very little consequence outside of his cult. It DOES NOT just "hurt when it "hits home"! It hurts every single time it occurs to any innocent victim anywhere any time. It hurt Lindsay Tornambe the instant her criminal parents agreed to give her to Barnard for his use. Carmen's corpse grad spouse had already enjoyed sexual relations with her apostle, so why shouldn't her daughters?!! That was horrific criminal and pathological crime right then and there for little 13 year old Lindsay Tornambe! It's just like any other rape case. She was asking for it wasn't she? Well it ain't my daughter, is it?
THEY SHOULD AND COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND DID NOT! They consented! Should they be guilt ridden? No! They should be in jail. Jallyroll lynn took a $1000 honorarium and free plane tickets to teach at RRF in the late 90's. Brad Thorpe former twit limp leader and head of HR at new Knoxville for many years was also there. Jallyroll got Barnard to take Momentus and he knew what Barnard was up to. Well.....jallyroll took the $1000, went home and never confronted Barnard! It wasn't until Barnard angrily rejected Momentus and CES theology that jallyroll cut any ties.
It's not a matter of what YOU or we want. It is that Lindsay DESERVES JUSTICE and so does Barnard! Whether we want it or not is immaterial. What does Justice demand?? Lindsay Tornambe did not have a choice as to which "emotion" she wanted to "wallow in". She was a captive from age 13 to age 21! Don't you get that? Apparently not. She chose not to lie and play the game.She stood up for herself and justice, and isn't running around for 30 years playing the blame game like you. You have a lot to learn from her. She's not playing some whiney victim card. She sought and is obtaining PROFESSIONAL help from real doctors and lawyers and law enforcement.
Edited by Modgellanedited out personal attacks and cleaned up the formatting to be easier to understand.
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Twinky
What does that mean?
Do you mean, j'accuse?
T-Bone, the film you're thinking of is "Spotlight" - excellent film.
I found myself more than a little disturbed after seeing the film - angry at the cover-up, angry and distressed at what had been done to all of us by TWI.
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DontWorryBeHappy
I mean I accuse Twinky. Funny how that's your only question. Guess you just want to rag on me for "namecalling"? I told you what I think in an open forum. You don't seem to have much to say other than "What do you mean?". I posted perfectly clearly what I mean. Any other questions?
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Twinky
Peace, DWBH. I'm just not going to get involved in your fight with MRAP.
BTW I did see that interview with Lindsay and her father. I was with Ex10 and we were open-mouthed and shocked. It sounded unbelievably appalling - even to us, who have some background in the bizarre practices of TWI and its offshoots. How on earth could anyone do that? How could parents do that? And to their own daughter?!!!!
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DontWorryBeHappy
Fair enough Twinky. I don't fault you one bit on that!
BTW........HAPPY BIRTHDAY TWINKY! A tribute to British womanhood and strength you are IMO. Always enjoy reading you wherever we cross paths. I hope you have a great day of celebrating YOU with family and friends today. You deserve it! How's it feel to be 40? Love and peace to you dear.
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Rocky
DWBH, Twinky (btw, HBD, Twinky!) was asking for clarification and telling you the correct way to put it if (since) that's what you meant.
It's not "je cuze" it's "j'accuse."
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DontWorryBeHappy
I understand that Rocky. I used the words "I accuse" throughout the post and just did the j'accuse at the end and misspelled it. It was fairly obvious I thought. All is well......thanks for your help. The Twink is cool!
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Twinky
Thanks, DWBH and Rocky. I had a nice day and was taken out to the best Italian restaurant in the city, in the evening. All the waiters sang to me (and all the other birthday people). Lovely :) :) :)
40... if only...
On second thoughts... when I was 40 I was still a "prisoner" of that organisation. Life is much better outside the walls of "the household."
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modcat5
This thread has been moved to "Out of the Way: The Offshoots."
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HAPe4me
Bringing this back to the topivc of Victor Arden Barnard's extradition.
According to the article Twinky posted, his attorney said
It is my understanding that the extradition treaty between the US and Brazil already includes the condition that prisoners will not be able to face longer terms in the US than they would face in the Brazil had they committed those crimes in Brazil. Barnard's Brazilian attorney stated that fact back when he was arrested a year ago. I doubt that the US would balk at agreeing to the condition, either as a matter of principle of the treaty we have with Brazil, or in considering the age of criminal.
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waysider
I never sat through Momentus. I know it had a profoundly negative effect on some of its students, one of which was Barnard. Can someone provide a short explanation of what it was all about?
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WordWolf
I can't post a SHORT explanation.
There's an entire thread called "Momentus." here:
The briefest posts not on that thread, but related, that I could find:
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Rocky
Dateline May 18, 2016, (Pine County, MN)
Accused cult leader's extradition to Minnesota stopped at last minute
"Accused Minnesota cult leader Victor Barnard was all set to be extradited Thursday back to Minnesota from Brazil. Federal Marshals were preparing for the transfer to a jail in Pine County, Minn. And then, suddenly, the deal was off, for now. "Multiples sources tell the FOX 9 Investigators the diplomatic snafu comes down to the precise wording of the extradition agreement. As FOX 9 previously reported, Brazil's Supreme Court said they would only release Barnard to U.S. custody if it is agreed that his sentence, if convicted of the charges in Minnesota, would not exceed 30 years in prison...." continued
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waysider
Just a personal opinion here. The guy is 53 years old. If he can survive the stresses of prison life (not an easy task), a 30 year sentence would make him 83 when he gets out. You might as well think of it as a life sentence. I'm just sayin'.
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Twinky
Perhaps before then he will meet some nice "boyfriends" in prison. Find out what unwanted sexual attention feels like.
No, I don't really wish him ill. But I don't wish him joy and happiness either.
Be nice if he had to face his victims and hear their opinion of him. That would actually be harder for him than anything.
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waysider
I can't read minds but I doubt that facing his victims would affect him very much.
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Twinky
Waysider, on those restorative justice schemes, one of the requirements is to have to face the victim(s) and be told exactly what the effects on the victim have been. Restorative justice shows offenders that all of their activities affect others and >>they themselves<< are responsible for their choices and actions and can be held accountable for them. It's all done in a carefully controlled environment. Both/all parties have to agree, and there are trained counsellors / facilitators and a lot of support for the victim. The offender can't answer back, has to be quiet and listen, and not try to "justify" the offending behaviour. There's no physical contact (the vic can't beat the offender up!) It isn't suitable for all offences, particularly those involving domestic or sexual violence, and a careful risk assessment needs to be done, to safeguard the victim from further harm.
Offenders who have been through the process often find it horrendous and may prefer to go to prison. Having to face the victim(s) makes their crime all the more real and forces the crims to see their victims as real people with real feelings and emotions. They have to face the anger, the hurt, the - whatever - of their victims.
The victims find an opportunity to vent and often feel they have some "justice," where the sterile court system often makes them feel powerless, just a cog and not a person.
If this abusive "minister" can't face his victims, he's gonna have an awfully hard time explaining himself to Jesus Christ - whose name he has taken in vain and used to abuse these young women. Jesus as principal victim isn't going to be all lovey-dovey about it.
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Twinky
I think if he'd have abused my daughter, though, I'd be wanting not to talk but to chop his head off with a hatchet, or kick him VERY hard in a place he'd find very uncomfortable.
Or spit in his face.
If he'd abused me ... I dunno, from what I saw of the daughter on a TV show (Dr Phil?), she's doing remarkably well for herself, considering. It wouldn't be surprising if she has some real anger towards him and if she didn't ever want to face him - in a courtroom or any other setting.
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Rocky
No doubt a lot of that is or will be in play. As I understand it, from about the time Lindsay was on Dr Phil's show, she was pretty angry with her parents even though her father was at least somewhat remorseful.
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Rocky
Guess who's back from Brazil...
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Twinky
Time to reap what he sowed.
Prayers / thoughts / good wishes (depending on your PoV) to his victims (all of them) - it may be a very difficult time for them over the next few months while the trial is being arranged.
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