Oh yes, before he left, he pulled a tract from his car and gave it to me. It showed me where I can go online for answers to my questions. Just in case I want to learn "the truth" I guess. :blush:/>
They know a specific technique with specific verses,
AND THAT'S IT.
That's where the fun begins-if you know more Bible.
Well that's the problem. I DON'T know scripture well. I mean, not to the point where I'm able to hold my own with anybody who really knows scripture. Digressing here just for a moment, one of the things I tell people is that don't let somebody who knows a lot of scripture fool you into thinking they know what they are talking about. I know a lady who is quite astute at memorizing verses but she twists things so ludicrously you have to put about 90% of what she says through the BS filter.
Anyway, I totally agree your part about knowing a specific technique with specific verses. You put that well. Because that is exactly what I felt with the guy. I ALSO was thinking of you, WordWolf, and at least a dozen other greasespotters here that would have nailed this guy in no time. But me trying to argue back would have been useless. I would have lost. lol. He still thinks he had the upper hand in that "conversation" I'm sure.
Lesson learned for me is don't engage with these type of people. I even told him I just watched a crime documentary the night before (one of these ID Discovery shows) where a family from Allentown Pa. got massacred, they were JW's. Their own sons massacred the family, mom, dad, and younger brother, and the parents were so terrified of these kids (shortly before this happened) they went to their church "elders" for help, and got no help, they were told it was a test from God and to deal with it on their own.
This young guy, Nayr (that's his name spelled backward, lol) told me, "Well, different elders deal with situations different ways." THAT's his freaking answer? Sheesh. Anyway, I digress.
But yeah, I'll leave the scripture battles for those who are better at it than me. I would just end up with egg on my face. But it was an eye opener. I'm not going to feel guilty about hiding in my hallway when they come to my door. That's for sure.
Speaking only for myself, I prefer to politely tell them I'm not at all interested, thank them for their concern and end the conversation at that.
Yeah but I'm a goil, and I don't like opening my door to anybody. They could be serial killers in disguise. I watch too many crime shows, I know. And my rottweiler is a joke. Love her, but she's a joke as a guard dog. Btw, I'm at my puter sort of house hunting, that's why I'm replying right away. It's not like I don't have a life you know. Well, I don't....but that's beside the point.
In essence, what I mean is that I don't engage in lengthy dialogue.
Oh. Okay. I gotcha. I'm still gonna hide in the hallway. One time I did that and my dog ate my sandwich on the table while I was hiding. Anyway...Yours is the best way to handle it waysider. But I'd still rather hide in the hallway.
I fully agree with Waysider, especially the part about the sandwich. If you find that you for some reason need to debate these guys, there are books you can read that will give you some common rebuttals for the Jw's and other cult groups, even TWI. You can find them in a Christian bookstore and probably a library. I found this necessary when a Morman duo went about converting a family member of mine. I got the book, then when they came around I had some things to say because I knew what they were going to say. They had to go get one of their elders to argue with me. Had it not been my niece or another family member, I wouldn't given them the time of day. My niece converted and moved to Utah but later recanted and returned home. How much did my rebuttal play in the overall scheme of things? Probably nothing.
lol you guys. /> Broken Arrow I was thinking about one of those books, about how to answer them. I'll have to take a look at them. I certainly don't want to convert them to "my way of thinking" I don't even know what "my way of thinking is" and whatever it is, it's probably pretty stupid anyway, lol. Thank God for His mercy on us, seriously. But I'd be curious to see what they say, so I may do some digging on Amazon and see what's out there.
just tell them your mother is famous her name is rosemary - and you are satan's child
Oh my goodness exie, you're on a roll today!
By the way, I've been looking at those "How to respond to JW books, and the ones I've looked at so far are all about how to debate the trinity. Sigh. Not exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to get into any doctrinal debates with them. I just want to be able to answer them as to why they think they need to knock on doors (they bring up that part about Jesus sending people out as disciples) and why they are so sure they are the only ones with the truth. But I 'll probably just grab a sandwich and hide.
When I was in FLO I had a day off work for some holiday or other and someone came to see me from I think JW. God bless her heart, I was snoozing when she rang the doorbell and when I opened the door my sleepy eyes told my brain she was Mrs. Wierwille. I soon discovered my mistake, but not until after I had invited her in. So off we went and I knew more Bible than she did! Whatever the point she couldn't respond to I don't recall, but I politely declined her offer to find an elder or whatever. Interestingly, she had brought up something we had recently been lectured upon and it was fresh in my tiny little mind.
I don't mean to brag though I probably am anyway. I felt somewhat badly afterward.
WG that reminds me of Psycho 3. This nun gets kicked out and stumbles into the Bates motel. Norman puts her in the same room Janet Leigh was in for the shower scene in the first Psycho movie. The nun is so whacked out with guilt she tries to kill herself in the bathtub and when Norman comes in to repeat the shower scene, she'd already cut her wrists and she doesn't see Norman with a knife, she sees mother Mary with a silver cross. Norman calls 911 and they save her and Norman's a hero...for a time.
But you saw Mrs. W, the nun saw Mary. That's just what it reminded me of.
You and Nayr were ingaged in a business transaction. You should ask Nyar if his boss were aware that Nyar was using his bosses time and the money the boss spent on Nyar's employment to do a specific job so Nyar could cajole and anger the bosses customers about differences of scriptural interpretation.
(Then whip out your phone and ask for the bosses phone number.) :biglaugh:/>
You and Nayr were ingaged in a business transaction. You should ask Nyar if his boss were aware that Nyar was using his bosses time and the money the boss spent on Nyar's employment to do a specific job so Nyar could cajole and anger the bosses customers about differences of scriptural interpretation.
(Then whip out your phone and ask for the bosses phone number.) />
dabobbada: That's exactly what my neighbor across my corridor told me. lol. I'm going to wait and she what kind of report this guy gives us. ;) If he gives us a really stinky bad one, well.....but seriously, he seems like a nice enough kid. I was really shaking my head because he reminded me of how freaking close minded I was and how I thought I was the ONLY ONE WITH THE TRUTH. And the Jehovah's are so much like the wayfers as they don't DO the things Jesus told us to do, as his true disciples, they think that having their noses up in the air and thinking they are so much more knowledgeable than others is what matters. But really, he better give us a good report. :)
dear sweet rottiegirl :wub: just so i can add insult to injury
I just want to be able to answer them as to why they think they need to knock on doors (they bring up that part about Jesus sending people out as disciples) and why they are so sure they are the only ones with the truth.
Exie don't feel bad, you are right. I guess I got caught up with that dude last week while I was walking around with him and didn't have the right things to say back. Now, a week later, what you said perfectly fits how I feel at the moment. Why the heck should I care? Like I said, if he comes around again, I'm planning my escape. Let my boss deal with him. />
PS exie. My friend says the same thing to me when I call him up complaining about one of my problems. He gives me some sound advice, usually, then tells me he wishes he had my problems. lol. For the last two weeks my big problem has been putting my foot down with my pot smoking neighbor who comes over here to smoke pot, cause she hides it from her husband. I finally decided I'm just going to tell her she just can't do it anymore. It drives me insane. HEY, I used to smoke pot A LOT, back in the 80s and some of the 90s. I don't care who smokes pot, JUST NOT IN MY HOUSE! OR IN MY YARD! I wouldn't just light up a cigarette in somebodies house, what makes it okay to light up your POT in my house? Sheesh! Okay, thank you. I feel better now.
PS. Plus last time she ate all my ding-dongs. :(/>
I debated with a couple of Mormon missionaries once who were trying to convert a friend. Was told later, the young man rang his parents back in the u.s.a. ( something they're not meant to do whilst on their mission ) crying telling them he didn't believe anymore...should I feel bad about it ?
I debated with a couple of Mormon missionaries once who were trying to convert a friend. Was told later, the young man rang his parents back in the u.s.a. ( something they're not meant to do whilst on their mission ) crying telling them he didn't believe anymore...should I feel bad about it ?
Oh heck no. It's nice that you were able to break through his indoctrinated mind. It shows he was listening to you, and perhaps he had other instances happen to him as well. I wish it had not taken me so long to get some sense into my mind. But somehow it always became all about the trinity, instead of the reality of the oppression and bondage of Way religion.
I never had Mormons come knocking at my door in my area, Chicago burbs. I don't think we have a whole lot out here. I remember reading that the Osmond family was excused from the missionary duties because according to the powers that be in the Mormon church, they could reach many more people through their music....yada da da da.....Like I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the ton of money the Mormon church was benefiting from the Osmonds, lol.
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RottieGrrrl
Oh yes, before he left, he pulled a tract from his car and gave it to me. It showed me where I can go online for answers to my questions. Just in case I want to learn "the truth" I guess. :blush:/>
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waysider
It's really kind of embarrassing to finally see how annoying we I must have been.
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RottieGrrrl
Isn't though? LOL! :biglaugh:/>
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WordWolf
People like that, besides being clueless,
are PREDICTABLE.
They rarely know the entire Bible.
They know a specific technique with specific verses,
AND THAT'S IT.
That's where the fun begins-if you know more Bible.
Furthermore, any martial artist can tell you, in a fight, the PREDICTABLE fighter
is the LOSER.
During their Vice-Presidential debate, Lloyd Bentsen waited for Dan Quayle to make his
USUAL comment about JFK. "I have as much experience as Jack Kennedy did when he sought
the Presidency." If you look closely, you can see Bentsen give a tiny smile, since he
was waiting with the counter.
"Senator, I knew Jack Kennedy. I worked with Jack Kennedy.
Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine.
Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."
The audience went bananas, Quayle lost control of the debate.
"......................That was highly uncalled-for, Senator."
"Well, you were the one who was making the comparison, Senator."
After that, nothing Quayle said could make the debate about anything other than that
exchange.
For the record, there's no evidence that Bentsen knew, worked with, or was friends
with Jack Kennedy. However, bringing that up wouldn't have made a difference unless
it was brought up IMMEDIATELY, in reply.
If Quayle had been using the line as a lure, he could have responded to
"Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" with a clever riposte about JFK's many failings,
which Quayle may lack (Quayle's never been accused publicly of infidelity, for example.)
However, he was NOT using it as a lure, he was just being predictable.
So, when someone will certainly approach with a variation on
"Would you like to know The Truth?" or
"Why don't you want to know The Truth?"
you have months to prepare your response for that day.
Me,
I just listened to their approaches and tailored my response to go from there
to other verses they'd never read, but were on the same subject.
They'd brought it up, after all.
Most of the time, I was pretty nice about it. I saved my pitiless response
for the man who insulted my by insinuation.
He said they were going around to exhort people to read their Bible.
I thanked him and said I was reading it daily.
He replied that many people CLAIMED that...
(Someone in earshot asked me later "Was he calling you a liar?" which,
he was INSINUATING without having the courage to say outright.)
At the time, I caught that, and decided to interpret that as a challenge,
so I quickly took him all over the Bible on subjects he brought up,
deliberately making him flounder every time he brought up something by
taking him to verses he'd never seen. Repeatedly.
If he had apologized at any point or acknowledged I actually read the thing,
I would have stopped. Since he didn't, I gave him an ordeal.
Eventually, he excused himself.
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RottieGrrrl
Well that's the problem. I DON'T know scripture well. I mean, not to the point where I'm able to hold my own with anybody who really knows scripture. Digressing here just for a moment, one of the things I tell people is that don't let somebody who knows a lot of scripture fool you into thinking they know what they are talking about. I know a lady who is quite astute at memorizing verses but she twists things so ludicrously you have to put about 90% of what she says through the BS filter.
Anyway, I totally agree your part about knowing a specific technique with specific verses. You put that well. Because that is exactly what I felt with the guy. I ALSO was thinking of you, WordWolf, and at least a dozen other greasespotters here that would have nailed this guy in no time. But me trying to argue back would have been useless. I would have lost. lol. He still thinks he had the upper hand in that "conversation" I'm sure.
Lesson learned for me is don't engage with these type of people. I even told him I just watched a crime documentary the night before (one of these ID Discovery shows) where a family from Allentown Pa. got massacred, they were JW's. Their own sons massacred the family, mom, dad, and younger brother, and the parents were so terrified of these kids (shortly before this happened) they went to their church "elders" for help, and got no help, they were told it was a test from God and to deal with it on their own.
This young guy, Nayr (that's his name spelled backward, lol) told me, "Well, different elders deal with situations different ways." THAT's his freaking answer? Sheesh. Anyway, I digress.
But yeah, I'll leave the scripture battles for those who are better at it than me. I would just end up with egg on my face. But it was an eye opener. I'm not going to feel guilty about hiding in my hallway when they come to my door. That's for sure.
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waysider
Speaking only for myself, I prefer to politely tell them I'm not at all interested, thank them for their concern and end the conversation at that.
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RottieGrrrl
Yeah but I'm a goil, and I don't like opening my door to anybody. They could be serial killers in disguise. I watch too many crime shows, I know. And my rottweiler is a joke. Love her, but she's a joke as a guard dog. Btw, I'm at my puter sort of house hunting, that's why I'm replying right away. It's not like I don't have a life you know. Well, I don't....but that's beside the point.
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waysider
In essence, what I mean is that I don't engage in lengthy dialogue.
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RottieGrrrl
Oh. Okay. I gotcha. I'm still gonna hide in the hallway. One time I did that and my dog ate my sandwich on the table while I was hiding. Anyway...Yours is the best way to handle it waysider. But I'd still rather hide in the hallway.
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waysider
Tip #47:
Never hide in the hallway without a sandwich.
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Broken Arrow
I fully agree with Waysider, especially the part about the sandwich. If you find that you for some reason need to debate these guys, there are books you can read that will give you some common rebuttals for the Jw's and other cult groups, even TWI. You can find them in a Christian bookstore and probably a library. I found this necessary when a Morman duo went about converting a family member of mine. I got the book, then when they came around I had some things to say because I knew what they were going to say. They had to go get one of their elders to argue with me. Had it not been my niece or another family member, I wouldn't given them the time of day. My niece converted and moved to Utah but later recanted and returned home. How much did my rebuttal play in the overall scheme of things? Probably nothing.
Anyway, something you can do if you want.
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RottieGrrrl
lol you guys.
/> Broken Arrow I was thinking about one of those books, about how to answer them. I'll have to take a look at them. I certainly don't want to convert them to "my way of thinking" I don't even know what "my way of thinking is" and whatever it is, it's probably pretty stupid anyway, lol. Thank God for His mercy on us, seriously. But I'd be curious to see what they say, so I may do some digging on Amazon and see what's out there. 
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excathedra
just tell them your mother is famous her name is rosemary - and you are satan's child
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RottieGrrrl
Oh my goodness exie, you're on a roll today!
By the way, I've been looking at those "How to respond to JW books, and the ones I've looked at so far are all about how to debate the trinity. Sigh. Not exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to get into any doctrinal debates with them. I just want to be able to answer them as to why they think they need to knock on doors (they bring up that part about Jesus sending people out as disciples) and why they are so sure they are the only ones with the truth. But I 'll probably just grab a sandwich and hide.
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Watered Garden
When I was in FLO I had a day off work for some holiday or other and someone came to see me from I think JW. God bless her heart, I was snoozing when she rang the doorbell and when I opened the door my sleepy eyes told my brain she was Mrs. Wierwille. I soon discovered my mistake, but not until after I had invited her in. So off we went and I knew more Bible than she did! Whatever the point she couldn't respond to I don't recall, but I politely declined her offer to find an elder or whatever. Interestingly, she had brought up something we had recently been lectured upon and it was fresh in my tiny little mind.
I don't mean to brag though I probably am anyway. I felt somewhat badly afterward.
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johniam
WG that reminds me of Psycho 3. This nun gets kicked out and stumbles into the Bates motel. Norman puts her in the same room Janet Leigh was in for the shower scene in the first Psycho movie. The nun is so whacked out with guilt she tries to kill herself in the bathtub and when Norman comes in to repeat the shower scene, she'd already cut her wrists and she doesn't see Norman with a knife, she sees mother Mary with a silver cross. Norman calls 911 and they save her and Norman's a hero...for a time.
But you saw Mrs. W, the nun saw Mary. That's just what it reminded me of.
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RottieGrrrl
WG that is just awesome. Funny! But awesome
johniam, now you make me want to see Pyscho 3. At least that scene. I'll have to check my netflix or amazon instant vid.
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dabobbada
Rottie,
You and Nayr were ingaged in a business transaction. You should ask Nyar if his boss were aware that Nyar was using his bosses time and the money the boss spent on Nyar's employment to do a specific job so Nyar could cajole and anger the bosses customers about differences of scriptural interpretation.
(Then whip out your phone and ask for the bosses phone number.) :biglaugh:/>
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RottieGrrrl
dabobbada: That's exactly what my neighbor across my corridor told me. lol. I'm going to wait and she what kind of report this guy gives us. ;) If he gives us a really stinky bad one, well.....but seriously, he seems like a nice enough kid. I was really shaking my head because he reminded me of how freaking close minded I was and how I thought I was the ONLY ONE WITH THE TRUTH. And the Jehovah's are so much like the wayfers as they don't DO the things Jesus told us to do, as his true disciples, they think that having their noses up in the air and thinking they are so much more knowledgeable than others is what matters. But really, he better give us a good report. :)
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excathedra
this is going to sound horrendous and i honestly don't mean it to be
i have such worse things to worry about
i love you rottiegirl
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excathedra
dear sweet rottiegirl :wub: just so i can add insult to injury
WTF CARES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok now i feel better
((((((((((((((((( hugs rotsie ))))))))))))))))))))))
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RottieGrrrl
Exie don't feel bad, you are right. I guess I got caught up with that dude last week while I was walking around with him and didn't have the right things to say back. Now, a week later, what you said perfectly fits how I feel at the moment. Why the heck should I care? Like I said, if he comes around again, I'm planning my escape. Let my boss deal with him.
/>
PS exie. My friend says the same thing to me when I call him up complaining about one of my problems. He gives me some sound advice, usually, then tells me he wishes he had my problems. lol. For the last two weeks my big problem has been putting my foot down with my pot smoking neighbor who comes over here to smoke pot, cause she hides it from her husband. I finally decided I'm just going to tell her she just can't do it anymore. It drives me insane. HEY, I used to smoke pot A LOT, back in the 80s and some of the 90s. I don't care who smokes pot, JUST NOT IN MY HOUSE! OR IN MY YARD! I wouldn't just light up a cigarette in somebodies house, what makes it okay to light up your POT in my house? Sheesh! Okay, thank you. I feel better now.
PS. Plus last time she ate all my ding-dongs. :(/>
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Allan
I debated with a couple of Mormon missionaries once who were trying to convert a friend. Was told later, the young man rang his parents back in the u.s.a. ( something they're not meant to do whilst on their mission ) crying telling them he didn't believe anymore...should I feel bad about it ?
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RottieGrrrl
Oh heck no. It's nice that you were able to break through his indoctrinated mind. It shows he was listening to you, and perhaps he had other instances happen to him as well. I wish it had not taken me so long to get some sense into my mind. But somehow it always became all about the trinity, instead of the reality of the oppression and bondage of Way religion.
I never had Mormons come knocking at my door in my area, Chicago burbs. I don't think we have a whole lot out here. I remember reading that the Osmond family was excused from the missionary duties because according to the powers that be in the Mormon church, they could reach many more people through their music....yada da da da.....Like I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the ton of money the Mormon church was benefiting from the Osmonds, lol.
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